Why not Join Amazon Kindle Unlimited 30-Day Free Trial?

Author Topic: a market of lemons  (Read 5662 times)  

Offline Quiss

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 5199
  • Gender: Female
  • Canada
  • spits infinitives
    • View Profile
    • Chris Reher Author page
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2013, 08:00:09 PM »
This is just an exact replay of what people said the first few years of the world wide web too.

"Oh, no!  Anybody can publish a web page, including crooks and spammers and idiots. And all those people will crowd out the useful sites and the web will become useless and abandoned!"

Exactly. There are a huge number of very excellent web sites and blogs out there that have been crowded out by the hustlers and those who are gaming the system (search engines). Most casual web surfers don't look past the first few pages of a search engine return. Where the paid ads are. Many many potentially excellent sites have fallen by the wayside.  Imagine how many more people would enjoy those if they could actually find them in the chaos of crappy sites. Search engines are becoming less and less effective, social networks are spammed by ads and all that remains, really, is word of mouth or being linked to from other, reputable sites.
And so it goes with ebooks.
Of course online book publishing won't be useless and abandoned, either, but it's becoming more and more of a chore for readers to find the good stuff and for new, talented authors to be found.

        NEW:

 
author website | facebook

Offline DavidRM

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 547
  • Gender: Male
  • Tulsa, Oklahoma
    • View Profile
    • Guns & Magic
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2013, 09:33:44 PM »
Thanks. It's actually really weird to find myself writing out the same posts I used to write on Buzzcomix back in the day. eBooks seem to be in the exact same place right now as webcomics were then: there are a handful of people who have blown up, a sizable population of people who have become self-sustaining, and everyone of that level and below have reached the stage where they panic at ever growing pain.

And, of course, people can now start bemoaning the very open access that let them get into the position they are now allowing new challengers to emerge.

Or as I like to put it, from my days running online games:

Last month's newbies hate this month's newbies. ;-)
David Michael
Living Ghost Time

On the night before Brenna Guin's annual July 4th Sleepover Extravaganza, she discovers her house is haunted by the ghost of Harvey Westmore, a magician. Which, she decides, is perfect. A touch of ghostly magic is exactly the surprise her party needs...

(click here to see more of David's titles)

Offline Cherise

  • Status: Emily Dickinson
  • *******
  • Posts: 7998
  • Gender: Female
  • Spokane, WA
    • View Profile
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2013, 10:31:09 PM »
Or as I like to put it, from my days running online games:

Last month's newbies hate this month's newbies. ;-)


+1

Offline EC Sheedy

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
  • Gender: Female
  • BC, Canada
  • "Words are Deeds." Wittgenstein
    • View Profile
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2013, 10:50:54 PM »
Welcome to Webcomics circa 2003. The cream floats, the crap sinks and life moves on.

Not sure why people always insist that crap sinks. It doesn't. Cream and turds both float. Messy, that.
 

"We don't need a list of rights and wrongs, tables of dos and don'ts: we need books, time, and silence.
Thou shalt not is soon forgotten, but Once upon a time lasts forever."   ― Philip Pullman

Offline draconian

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 48
    • View Profile
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 12:38:50 AM »
Strongly disagree with the premise.

Dumping garbage onto the online market to drive helpless users back into the arms of the traditional press is exactly what the recording industry has been doing to various music and video illegal download sites / torrents / p2p networks for the last few years.
It has not stopped people illegally downloading at all.
At all.



Offline daringnovelist

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 6740
  • Camille LaGuire
    • View Profile
    • Camille LaGuire
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2013, 09:30:35 AM »
Exactly. There are a huge number of very excellent web sites and blogs out there that have been crowded out by the hustlers and those who are gaming the system (search engines).


Actually, no. Those excellent websites have not been crowded out by the junk.  Not at ALL. That's my point.  The fact is, no matter how much the crooks game the system, the system adjusts to make them invisible. And the proof of that is that you are here.  You use the internet.  If the internet were so impossible to navigate, you wouldn't be here.

We would not all be addicted to the place, reading what we can't get enough of.

There is no crowding on the internet. The shelves are of infinite length.

We are given the illusion that there is a problem because those hustlers are claiming that they can game the system, so they can sell get rich quick schemes to suckers.  But all their games are actually designed to only get to one group of people: suckers.  It's like marketing on Twitter -- if you do all those things that are supposed to make you a Twitter marketing star, all of your thousands of followers will be other people who want to be marketing stars.  And nobody else will see you.

And that's the thing about the internet, the only people who see you are those who want to see you.  You can't use manipulation or "Push Marketing" (the old paradigm of publishing) to force anyone to look at you. We're now in a "Pull Marketing" universe, where the control is in the hands of the audience.

And that's what these sorts of Tsunami Of Swill arguments really go back to: They bemoan the fact that you can't force people to look at you any more.  You can't sell books by how they are placed in bookstores.

It's now all down to genuine word of mouth and genuine content appeal.

And if there are sites out there that you think are crap, but they are succeeding, it's not because they cheated, it's because they appeal to an audience.  And NO site is crowding out another site.

This is true of books as well.

Camille

Offline Michael J. Scott

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Gender: Male
  • Rochester, NY
    • View Profile
    • Michael J Scott Books
Re: a market of lemons
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2013, 11:01:46 AM »
Actually, no. Those excellent websites have not been crowded out by the junk.  Not at ALL. That's my point.  The fact is, no matter how much the crooks game the system, the system adjusts to make them invisible. And the proof of that is that you are here.  You use the internet.  If the internet were so impossible to navigate, you wouldn't be here.

We would not all be addicted to the place, reading what we can't get enough of.

There is no crowding on the internet. The shelves are of infinite length.

We are given the illusion that there is a problem because those hustlers are claiming that they can game the system, so they can sell get rich quick schemes to suckers.  But all their games are actually designed to only get to one group of people: suckers.  It's like marketing on Twitter -- if you do all those things that are supposed to make you a Twitter marketing star, all of your thousands of followers will be other people who want to be marketing stars.  And nobody else will see you.

And that's the thing about the internet, the only people who see you are those who want to see you.  You can't use manipulation or "Push Marketing" (the old paradigm of publishing) to force anyone to look at you. We're now in a "Pull Marketing" universe, where the control is in the hands of the audience.

And that's what these sorts of Tsunami Of Swill arguments really go back to: They bemoan the fact that you can't force people to look at you any more.  You can't sell books by how they are placed in bookstores.

It's now all down to genuine word of mouth and genuine content appeal.

And if there are sites out there that you think are crap, but they are succeeding, it's not because they cheated, it's because they appeal to an audience.  And NO site is crowding out another site.

This is true of books as well.

Camille

This.

Well said, Camille. Reading the article, I felt like the guy was positing a dangerous solution in search of a problem. Nostalgic for the days of content control - except that the old gatekeepers stopped giving a rat's behind about quality a long time ago, but just never admitted it.