Author Topic: FreeBookService (FBS) Update ,  (Read 70526 times)  

Offline Danni

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #275 on: December 04, 2013, 07:45:47 AM »
Everyone can talk until they're blue in the face on whether or not these are organic purchases from people who plan to read the book. But I don't think there is any value in paying someone that much money for a service that does not generate subsequent sales on other books. It throws an author in the spotlight for a little while in a game of leapfrog. I'd suggest the authors who participate revisit this thread in a couple of weeks and provide us with your findings. I'm also very interested on what books are going to appear on their alsobots.

Regardless, I'm still not interested in any service that promotes books to readers, but won't let me be part of that list. (my comment on this was never addressed) At the very least, makes me suspect that their mailing list recipients don't receive advertising material on the books, but probably concealed click-through links (or incentives to complete tasks, as someone mentioned). That to me would make as much sense as handing out flyers to a strip club at a nunnery. Why was this not tested before starting up your business to charge that much money? Authors need to see the value for advertising a free book, and for me, that's not in a ranking number. Aside from that, there are also authors who might not want to play leap frog, and I can see based on some of the posts a lot of authors are concerned about their integrity, and that's more valuable than a rank for some people.

In any case, each post here is promoting the original post. So bravo, mission accomplished.  ::)

I feel inclined to spend all day on CAPS LOCK WEDNESDAY as seeing this thread continually pop up hurts my eyes.

Offline Lisa Grace

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #276 on: December 04, 2013, 07:46:40 AM »
I think this is the key that is being missed / forgotten every few pages here. We authors assume adverts will get us READERS but freebookservice is selling DOWNLOADS. When you pay freebookservice money he is delivering the exposure of the top 100 list, not readers. The HOPE is that the exposure in the list will draw readers.

I made the same bad assumption. I thought his 10,000 was READERS, but he never said that. He said he would get you DOWNLOADS. His service does exactly what he said it would.

Bookbub delivers potential READERS - there service is DIFFERENT. He has said that too.

Now, whether or not the service is ethical, or smart is up to each person's opinion. Whether or not it works we will see over the next couple weeks.

Wrong. He specified in his original letter it was 700,000 active Kindle readers who belong to book clubs and other sources.
 
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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #277 on: December 04, 2013, 07:54:26 AM »
I just ran a Google search for Out of time Monique Martin December 2, 2013

I saw it pop up for Toplist Best Fiction and another book club Inga, so it is possible he has a list of book clubs that are promoting the books. I'm lousy at running Google searches, so maybe someone else here can do it better.
 
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Offline freebookservice

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #278 on: December 04, 2013, 08:01:32 AM »
Wrong. He specified in his original letter it was 700,000 active Kindle readers who belong to book clubs and other sources.

Honestly saying downloads and saying readers is playing a game of semantics, because that cant really be tracked. I use the words interchangeably when it comes to kindle, but its probably more correct to say "possible readers" instead.

The bulk of the readers are from the list, I have been working on some other stuff but as you know, communities are extremely hard to grow (at least quickly).


Everyone can talk until they're blue in the face on whether or not these are organic purchases from people who plan to read the book. But I don't think there is any value in paying someone that much money for a service that does not generate subsequent sales on other books. It throws an author in the spotlight for a little while in a game of leapfrog. I'd suggest the authors who participate revisit this thread in a couple of weeks and provide us with your findings. I'm also very interested on what books are going to appear on their alsobots.

Regardless, I'm still not interested in any service that promotes books to readers, but won't let me be part of that list. (my comment on this was never addressed) At the very least, makes me suspect that their mailing list recipients don't receive advertising material on the books, but probably concealed click-through links (or incentives to complete tasks, as someone mentioned). That to me would make as much sense as handing out flyers to a strip club at a nunnery. Why was this not tested before starting up your business to charge that much money? Authors need to see the value for advertising a free book, and for me, that's not in a ranking number. Aside from that, there are also authors who might not want to play leap frog, and I can see based on some of the posts a lot of authors are concerned about their integrity, and that's more valuable than a rank for some people.

In any case, each post here is promoting the original post. So bravo, mission accomplished.  ::)

I feel inclined to spend all day on CAPS LOCK WEDNESDAY as seeing this thread continually pop up hurts my eyes.

I agree. The value comes from making sales not much else....Rank is just a precursor to sales, not a guarantee of sales.  I guess potential buyers have to weigh the options and see if there is indeed "value for the money" here. Maybe for some people they see the value, maybe for some they don't.
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Offline Ann in Arlington

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #279 on: December 04, 2013, 08:03:51 AM »
What exactly to do need confirmation of? Theres no way to track which readers will read cover-to-cover, any guess would be just that, a guess.

However, thats the same with bookbub, you are only getting potential readers, nothing more. All you know is that you can give it a try, and see if its worth the money. Same here, you can give it a try and see if its worth the money.

Actually, you did confirm that all you're guaranteeing is downloads. Fair enough.

So, whatever freebooksservice is doing, it's okay with Amazon. That's a very good thing to know.


Actually, all the response said was that they were legitimate downloads.  FWIW, I never doubted that.

What I doubt is whether many of them will end up being readers.

So, this service promises downloads. That can push up rank.  Which can mean visibility. Which might result in further downloads by readers browsing specifically for your sort of book.  There's likely a trickle down effect there that will mean additional purchases and reviews posted, etc. as time passes.

BookBub promises your book will get in front of the eyes of readers. It doesn't, as far as I know, promise downloads, just that your book will be featured on it's email list and FB page. And it does that. And you DO get downloads because, BookBub's subscribers are readers who Want To Read Your Book. I know it does that, because I AM A READER and I can sign up at BookBub to get notified of the great deals on great reads.  But -- yes, I know I'm belaboring this point -- I can not sign up at freebookservice.  

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Offline Michael J. Scott

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #280 on: December 04, 2013, 08:11:26 AM »
Well, I feel a lot better about it with the response from Amazon. And thanks to Estelle for going to the source and confirming that.

As for actual readers versus potential readers, it seems to me that this is the problem we run into any time we do a free promo. People download the book like crazy, and may or may not read it. I've seen my books go into a lot of kindles with various KDP promotions, and never heard a thing from these people again. Some do, but most don't, or none of us would be looking for ways to draw eyes to our books. We'd just do a couple kindle promos, drive us up in the rankings via downloads, and then see all our other books sell like mad. Yes, I'm oversimplifying here.

So the downloads drive up rankings, and some of the people (not bots, according to Amazon) may read. Others see the book because of the push and click on it as well. Like with anything, the only real question is affordability. I want to do more than just make back whatever I've paid into an advertorial campaign, but that sorta rides on my shoulders to be sure I'm offering a quality product, doesn't it?
         

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #281 on: December 04, 2013, 08:20:05 AM »

BookBub promises your book will get in front of the eyes of readers. ... And you DO get downloads because, BookBub's subscribers are readers who Want To Read Your Book. I know it does that, because I AM A READER and I can sign up at BookBub to get notified of the great deals on great reads.  But -- yes, I know I'm belaboring this point -- I can not sign up at freebookservice.  

I think perhaps there is another way of looking at this. You're signed up to Bookbub and receive the promotions so you can see how the promos for that day are advertised. But if you're unable to sign up for freebookservice, you're also unable to see the email and the way the free book download is presented to the downloaders. How the email is framed/phrased would tell a lot about whether the book is being promoted to readers. It could be a reason to not let anyone into this pool of downloaders in the shark tank and to keep it closed.

Having said that, I do see a merit in using this service. I do see that for some, it would be very beneficial to get up in the rankings. I do think it's pricey, but if you use it as a marketing tool I think it could be useful.

No one thing works for everybody so these types of options are appreciated.




Offline FictionalWriter

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #282 on: December 04, 2013, 08:21:13 AM »
And yet with an opportunity to grow this list, you won't allow "real life readers and/or authors" to sign up for this service. If anything, that is the most puzzling thing and the one thing that has me thinking there is seriously some unsavory business afoot. As an author who wants to get ever more readers, that would be like me saying to a reader who says to me,

Hey, can you give me your website address so I can check out your books, and I reply, Nope, sorry, no can-do. But I guarantee you, they're really good. Buy one for yourself and you'll see how right I am. Or check out the reviews from some of my readers and you'll see how much they enjoy my books.



The bulk of the readers are from the list, I have been working on some other stuff but as you know, communities are extremely hard to grow (at least quickly).


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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #283 on: December 04, 2013, 08:25:20 AM »
Wrong. He specified in his original letter it was 700,000 active Kindle readers who belong to book clubs and other sources.

First, he replied and confirmed my post, so it is not wrong. :)

So here is the difference... a DOWNLOAD is a person/account/bot/etc that grabs the file, puts it on their kindle even, and never reads it. These are big helps for rank but do not help future sales much. These are often untargeted, unvetted, and fast. Well that download result in a say in a day? a week? a year? Maybe, there is no way to know - but the value is not coming from that downloader, its coming from the exposure you get in the top 100 - which could very well draw lots of readers.  

A service, like BookBub, that sells (potential) READERS, is taking the time to vet each book, and send it to a targeted list of people they think will actually want to read your book. The idea here is to send you customers - rank becomes a side effect. Readers grab the book with a higher potential to read, like, and buy the next book.

As I said, I think he is doing exactly what he says he is doing, that is selling downloads. It is a question of focus. He focusing on a different metric then some others do. The question outstanding is - will it work? We will see over the next couple weeks.

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Offline KeithAllen

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #284 on: December 04, 2013, 08:25:30 AM »
I can't get over how interesting this thread is. So much thoughtful debate, which hasn't turned into just flaming. I've also never seen our super awesome moderators get so involved in a thread. I have to give the OP some credit for continuing to respond. I don't see myself using the service, but the guy's got moxie--that's something. I'm glad to see Lisa G is giving it a run as well. We'll have more results to look at now. I'm curious to see the return on the monetary investment in a few weeks...wonder how many pages this thread will be by then. :P

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Offline EmC

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #285 on: December 04, 2013, 08:37:28 AM »
And yet with an opportunity to grow this list, you won't allow "real life readers and/or authors" to sign up for this service. If anything, that is the most puzzling thing and the one thing that has me thinking there is seriously some unsavory business afoot. As an author who wants to get ever more readers, that would be like me saying to a reader who says to me,

Hey, can you give me your website address so I can check out your books, and I reply, Nope, sorry, no can-do. But I guarantee you, they're really good. Buy one for yourself and you'll see how right I am. Or check out the reviews from some of my readers and you'll see how much they enjoy my books.

^^This. I don't understand why no one here is allowed to sign up. The claims are that it's to protect the interests and privacy of other clients, but whatever's sent out to that list can't be THAT secret if it's being sent to 700,000+ people. And unless there's a very rigid vetting process (which is doesn't sound like is true, since it seems like anyone could have opted in if they stumbled across the Amazon pages with the sign-in form on the page), there's no guarantee that any of those 700,000+ people already getting the list aren't authors or won't become authors. If this entire business model will crumble if the wrong people (other authors?) see the emails... well, then why build a business that REQUIRES a massive email list? It doesn't add up, and it makes me uncomfortable.

They are, of course, welcome to keep this thing a secret. It's their choice. But as long as it's a secret, I personally won't even consider signing up. I like to know exactly what I'm paying for.

Offline Lisa Grace

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #286 on: December 04, 2013, 08:39:57 AM »
Actually, you did confirm that all you're guaranteeing is downloads. Fair enough.

Actually, all the response said was that they were legitimate downloads.  FWIW, I never doubted that.

What I doubt is whether many of them will end up being readers.

So, this service promises downloads. That can push up rank.  Which can mean visibility. Which might result in further downloads by readers browsing specifically for your sort of book.  There's likely a trickle down effect there that will mean additional purchases and reviews posted, etc. as time passes.

BookBub promises your book will get in front of the eyes of readers. It doesn't, as far as I know, promise downloads, just that your book will be featured on it's email list and FB page. And it does that. And you DO get downloads because, BookBub's subscribers are readers who Want To Read Your Book. I know it does that, because I AM A READER and I can sign up at BookBub to get notified of the great deals on great reads.  But -- yes, I know I'm belaboring this point -- I can not sign up at freebookservice.  

But if his list is targeting book groups, clubs, and other venues (maybe it's people who've ordered skins for their Kindles), etc. they are still potential readers. Maybe it's people who've downloaded the free ereader app, so there is no way to add you to the lists, and/or he's not interested in adding readers one at a time.
 
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Offline jimkukral

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #287 on: December 04, 2013, 08:43:26 AM »
And yet with an opportunity to grow this list, you won't allow "real life readers and/or authors" to sign up for this service. If anything, that is the most puzzling thing and the one thing that has me thinking there is seriously some unsavory business afoot. As an author who wants to get ever more readers, that would be like me saying to a reader who says to me,

Hey, can you give me your website address so I can check out your books, and I reply, Nope, sorry, no can-do. But I guarantee you, they're really good. Buy one for yourself and you'll see how right I am. Or check out the reviews from some of my readers and you'll see how much they enjoy my books.


I totally get this. It's the secret sauce. If we knew how he built the list and how how markets to it, he loses competitive market advantage as competitors do the same thing. It's business 101. He doesn't need your readership. He's got other people who aren't as curious who will sign up without all the questions.
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Offline Ann in Arlington

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #288 on: December 04, 2013, 08:47:39 AM »
But if his list is targeting book groups, clubs, and other venues (maybe it's people who've ordered skins for their Kindles), etc. they are still potential readers. Maybe it's people who've downloaded the free ereader app, so there is no way to add you to the lists, and/or he's not interested in adding readers one at a time.

I totally get this. It's the secret sauce. If we knew how he built the list and how how markets to it, he loses competitive market advantage as competitors do the same thing. It's business 101. He doesn't need your readership. He's got other people who aren't as curious who will sign up without all the questions.

Fair enough.  To be clear: I don't really want to sign up -- I get enough free/bargain book notifications now with the places I am already registered.  But, if I was a prospective client of the service, I'd want to be able to sign up to see how they're marketing others.  Hence how they'd market me.  Since I can't, I'd be wary of paying any money.  YMMV of course.

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Offline FictionalWriter

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #289 on: December 04, 2013, 08:48:03 AM »
Really? I don't know many people who turn DOWN potential business. How on earth is limiting the LIST going to help this business??

I totally get this. It's the secret sauce. If we knew how he built the list and how how markets to it, he loses competitive market advantage as competitors do the same thing. It's business 101. He doesn't need your readership. He's got other people who aren't as curious who will sign up without all the questions.

Offline EmC

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #290 on: December 04, 2013, 08:49:14 AM »
I totally get this. It's the secret sauce. If we knew how he built the list and how how markets to it, he loses competitive market advantage as competitors do the same thing. It's business 101. He doesn't need your readership. He's got other people who aren't as curious who will sign up without all the questions.

But he's willing to share the secret sauce with the 700,000+ people who are already on the list? THAT'S what makes me question it.


Offline Ann in Arlington

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #291 on: December 04, 2013, 08:50:32 AM »
Really? I don't know many people who turn DOWN potential business. How on earth is limiting the LIST going to help this business??

But he's willing to share the secret sauce with the 700,000+ people who are already on the list? THAT'S what makes me question it.



Well, no . . . .he's just saying there are 700,000 already on his list.  Which really isn't very limited.

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Offline jimkukral

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #292 on: December 04, 2013, 08:52:42 AM »
But he's willing to share the secret sauce with the 700,000+ people who are already on the list? THAT'S what makes me question it.



I'm assuming... those are all just regular people who like to read books who don't have any idea about how or why, or don't even care frankly, about how they get their free books delivered to them. These are the same people who don't look at this and go, "Wow, what a great business model, I could easily copy this."

Us here... not so much. If legit, who wouldn't want to know this secret sauce? It's a money maker. Makes perfect sense to me to keep it hidden. Business 101.
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Offline Danni

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #293 on: December 04, 2013, 08:55:54 AM »
Simply getting on a mailing list to receive alerts on free books is not giving away a secret sauce. The only thing you'd be able to see is...email alerts on free books.

Unless there is no mailing list.
Or no book adverts on that list.


Then the the secret in the sauce is snake oil.

Clients want assurance. Authors want readers, not downloads. So if this is the biggest concern on this board, why are we not being given an opportunity to see our advertisement at work? Instilling trust with a client: Business 101.

Offline FictionalWriter

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #294 on: December 04, 2013, 08:56:54 AM »
All I can say is that, as an author, I wouldn't pay for a service that limited the exposure of the book I'm paying them to promote, to potential readers. It makes no sense.

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #295 on: December 04, 2013, 08:58:27 AM »
Just as an update on Moniques "freebie test", as she hasn't had the chance to chime in yet, before her promotion, her book2 was 15,000 in the paid store.

Currently it is 6849 in the store: http://www.amazon.com/When-Walls-Fell-Out-Time-ebook/dp/B005PII27U
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Offline David J Normoyle

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #296 on: December 04, 2013, 09:06:22 AM »
Simply getting on a mailing list to receive alerts on free books is not giving away a secret sauce. The only thing you'd be able to see is...email alerts on free books.

Unless there is no mailing list.
Or no book adverts on that list.


Then the the secret in the sauce is snake oil.

Clients want assurance. Authors want readers, not downloads. So if this is the biggest concern on this board, why are we not being given an opportunity to see our advertisement at work? Instilling trust with a client: Business 101.

Because the secret sauce might be something like: download 100 free books and you get something in return.


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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #297 on: December 04, 2013, 09:10:08 AM »
I'm not sure why the OP is using monique as an example (I don't mean that in a bad way, I truly don't know if Monique bought FBS's service) but if she did, there is something to bear in mind.
Monique had a bookbub yesterday for one of her box sets (I know this because I get bookbub e-mails).  I didn't buy the set because I've not yet read the other books, but I did click on the first book in the series.  Didn't buy it, because I already own it.

So, if she did an FBS on the same day she did a bookbub, I think the data might be a bit skewed.


As I've said before, I don't understand the importance of rank to an author, but if FBS is increasing your rank and that's what you want, hey, have at it.

However, as has been stated a number of times and still not directly addressed by FBS, is how us READERS can be part of this.  We'd like to support our authors.  And support a business that is supporting our authors.  

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #298 on: December 04, 2013, 09:16:34 AM »
s I've said before, I don't understand the importance of rank to an author, but if FBS is increasing your rank and that's what you want, hey, have at it.


Its quite simple really. Rank and visibility are inextricably linked. As rank increases toward number 1 more readers see your stuff on the various lists on Amazon and more click to buy, which of course leads to a better ranking and around we go again

Offline EmC

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #299 on: December 04, 2013, 09:22:42 AM »
I'm assuming... those are all just regular people who like to read books who don't have any idea about how or why, or don't even care frankly, about how they get their free books delivered to them. These are the same people who don't look at this and go, "Wow, what a great business model, I could easily copy this."

Us here... not so much. If legit, who wouldn't want to know this secret sauce? It's a money maker. Makes perfect sense to me to keep it hidden. Business 101.

Before I was an author, I was an avid reader. Many authors I know were at some point or are currently part of book clubs. "Readers" and "authors" are not mutually exclusive, so if someone decides to compile a list of 700,000 readers looking for books, how do they know none of them are authors? Or will *become* authors? Or for that matter, that none of them are budding entrepreneurs? Or work in internet marketing? Or anything, really?  My point is that if they are actively trying to keep what they're doing a secret, compiling a ginormous list of readers doesn't seem like the smartest move. But I agree with DDark--allowing people on a mailing list shouldn't be giving away the secret sauce if it's just email alerts on free books. Something's just not adding up here.

I agree that instilling trust in a client is Business 101. Saying, "Give me $X.XX and I'll give you [insert some amazing thing]!" isn't enough for me. Even if we see the results that were promised. I don't have to know the entire inner workings of their business. I don't need to see their actual list of emails. But asking to see what potential readers of my book might see doesn't seem out of line. If I hire an advertising firm to make a commercial or campaign for me, you can be darned sure I'm going to want to see it before they send it out to potential customers.

Random aside: My inner teenager is coming out, but does this remind anyone else of that South Park episode with the Underpants Gnomes?

PHASE ONE: Collect Underpants ---->  PHASE TWO: ? ? ? ?  ----> PHASE THREE: Profit
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 09:24:39 AM by EmberC »