Author Topic: FreeBookService (FBS) Update ,  (Read 70098 times)  

Offline Danni

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #300 on: December 04, 2013, 09:23:57 AM »
Its quite simple really. Rank and visibility are inextricably linked. As rank increases toward number 1 more readers see your stuff on the various lists on Amazon and more click to buy, which of course leads to a better ranking and around we go again

But how you get there makes a difference as far as your credibility. There are authors who bought mass copies of their own book to rank on NYT. Not everyone wants to be that guy.

Offline Deanna Chase

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #301 on: December 04, 2013, 09:24:47 AM »
Just as an update on Moniques "freebie test", as she hasn't had the chance to chime in yet, before her promotion, her book2 was 15,000 in the paid store.

Currently it is 6849 in the store: http://www.amazon.com/When-Walls-Fell-Out-Time-ebook/dp/B005PII27U


Monique had a very successful BookBub ad yesterday. Her results are muddled and can not be attributed (solely) to the promotion with Free Book Service.

Offline Mark E. Cooper

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #302 on: December 04, 2013, 09:33:51 AM »
But how you get there makes a difference as far as your credibility. There are authors who bought mass copies of their own book to rank on NYT. Not everyone wants to be that guy.

I was answering Telracs question. I'm not defending or denigrating strategies to make ranks happen. I use permafree for ranking and visibility, and have used Bookbub to boost that. That's about as far as my experience goes regarding rankings.

Offline Deanna Chase

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #303 on: December 04, 2013, 09:37:22 AM »
...So people are paying 99c for the boxset from bookbub, then buying Book2, which they already have, from the boxset, for full price right after for 3.99? So you are really attributing sales on book2 to something other than my service? How could any book2 sales be from bookbub? What you are saying is impossible.

No it isn't. Not at all. Like Telracs said above, she didn't buy the three book bundle because she hasn't read the rest of the books. She then looked and saw she already had book 1, which is free by the way. It is entirely possible that people downloaded book 1 and book 2, or already had book one and said hey, I should buy book two. Or bought bought whatever combination made sense to the them at the time. All I'm saying is Monique's results are muddled and at this point we are not sure where the sales are coming from. That's all.

edited to add: The three book bundle was for books 4, 5, & 6.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 09:40:43 AM by Deanna Chase »

Offline freebookservice

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #304 on: December 04, 2013, 09:45:50 AM »
No it isn't. Not at all. Like Telracs said above, she didn't buy the three book bundle because she hasn't read the rest of the books. She then looked and saw she already had book 1, which is free by the way. It is entirely possible that people downloaded book 1 and book 2, or already had book one and said hey, I should buy book two. Or bought bought whatever combination made sense to the them at the time. All I'm saying is Monique's results are muddled and at this point we are not sure where the sales are coming from. That's all.

edited to add: The three book bundle was for books 4, 5, & 6.
Due your post I do see that its book 4,5,6. I guess it will be hard to get a accurate idea on this case.
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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #305 on: December 04, 2013, 09:58:47 AM »
The key question which has never been answered over on Warrior or here is:

There is a super-secret, amazing network of secret reading clubs full of secret readers that the list is built from, and all those super-secret readers receive emails from this ultra-secret email list. There's approximately 700k thousand secret squirrels on this list. Why is it that no one anywhere, ever, on the entire searchable Internet for as far as back as anyone can go has ever mentioned or actually seen one of these clubs/emails for this 'service' apart from the seller? I mean, I see real human readers all the time on various social networks talk about the various free sites/services. In fact, I found many of the lists by the chatter amongst readers on goodreads and twitter etc...

I do not buy this as a legitimate list for one single second. A marketing company that refuses to allow you to sign up to the very thing that they use to 'market' you... I mean, come on. That's crazy times. If you went to any ad agency in the world and they 'guaranteed' you a certain result but refused to show you what your audience will see, you'd run a mile. Even dodgy guys down the pub will show you the fake rolex before selling it to you.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, smells like duck, it's a damned duck. But the key thing with certain 'marketing opportunities' (and I've been around the block of Internet Marketing since '98) is that the sellers know most people will know it's shady and stay away, but that doesn't matter, because they prey on people's desire to succeed and there are enough people out there who will pay for this service because they desire to achieve success. (Not saying this is one such opportunity! Just that being so obscure and associated with Warrior form leaves a bad taste).

The simple fact of this is, until we're shown the emails that our so-called real readers/downloaders are getting, or see one of these book clubs or signup places, then there is zero trust factor. That its on the Warrior forum tells me everything I need to know, and even some of the people over there are skeptic; that says it all IMHO.

I'd love for this to be legit, but the OP has done nothing to prove that. "Secret sauce" is the biggest BS reason I've ever heard to obscure plain basic information the buyer of a such service has a right to see.  
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 10:01:16 AM by ColinFBarnes »

Offline Monique

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #306 on: December 04, 2013, 10:03:21 AM »
Yes, I'm sorry, my data on sell-through to the other books in the series will be thoroughly muddled by the other promotion.

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Offline Zelah Meyer

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #307 on: December 04, 2013, 10:09:22 AM »
I'm not sure why the OP is using monique as an example (I don't mean that in a bad way, I truly don't know if Monique bought FBS's service) but if she did, there is something to bear in mind.
Monique had a bookbub yesterday for one of her box sets (I know this because I get bookbub e-mails).  I didn't buy the set because I've not yet read the other books, but I did click on the first book in the series.  Didn't buy it, because I already own it.

So, if she did an FBS on the same day she did a bookbub, I think the data might be a bit skewed.


As I've said before, I don't understand the importance of rank to an author, but if FBS is increasing your rank and that's what you want, hey, have at it.

However, as has been stated a number of times and still not directly addressed by FBS, is how us READERS can be part of this.  We'd like to support our authors.  And support a business that is supporting our authors.  

Monique didn't buy the service.  She is one of three authors in this thread who agreed to be guinea pigs for this so that they could see what the results were.

I don't do things like Bookbub, or like this, so I'm not in the market.  From the evidence so far in this thread, I'm inclined to think that the downloads come from bots or, at best, from people paid to click.  It just doesn't make sense that someone with a list that size of genuine members would be pitching their service to authors instead of beating them off with a stick.

Authors (in general) are so hungry for new ways to promote their books, that if this 700,000 list was a real mailing list made up of people genuinely looking to potentially read these books, - then people would already know about it.  As you've already noticed from this thread - authors are experts at unearthing secrets through research.  Word of mouth would already have generated more clients than the business could accommodate.  

There are a large number of authors who would pay for the rank boost alone.  I'm not one of them, nor are most Kboards members.  However, there is a market for that, just as there is a market for paid reviews, etc.  Personally, I think the OP would be better off selling apples to people who want apples, rather than pretending that they are organic oranges and trying to flog them to wholefoods shops*.  Especially when there's a big market (elsewhere) for apples.

P.S.  If the OP does start a thread over at AW, will someone please PM me the link?  I have plenty of popcorn!  :)

*I do love my tortuous analogies.

Offline telracs

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #308 on: December 04, 2013, 10:39:46 AM »
...So people are paying 99c for the boxset from bookbub, then buying Book2, which they already have, from the boxset, for full price right after for 3.99? So you are really attributing sales on book2 to something other than my service? How could any book2 sales be from bookbub? What you are saying is impossible.

Monique's bookbub was for a box set of books 4-6, not books 1-3.  please re-read my post to see what I did based on the bookbub.

we don't know what anyone did based on your service because none of us are READER/SUBSCRIBERS to your service. 


And Zelah, thank for the clarification on how Monique got involved in using FBS, this thread is so long that I missed that.

Offline freebookservice

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #309 on: December 04, 2013, 10:41:43 AM »
Monique's bookbub was for a box set of books 4-6, not books 1-3.  please re-read my post to see what I did based on the bookbub.

we don't know what anyone did based on your service because none of us are READER/SUBSCRIBERS to your service. 


And Zelah, thank for the clarification on how Monique got involved in using FBS, this thread is so long that I missed that.

Yes Deanna chase pointed that out.
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Offline KeithAllen

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #310 on: December 04, 2013, 10:48:13 AM »


P.S.  If the OP does start a thread over at AW, will someone please PM me the link?  I have plenty of popcorn!  :)

*I do love my tortuous analogies.

Other than a great place to get rootbeer and cheese curds, what is AW?

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Offline Monique

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #311 on: December 04, 2013, 10:49:42 AM »
A small data point, granted it's not the same as str from a freebie, but... I had a BB on Box Set II for $0.99. Of the 1500 or so that bought that set, 200+ forked over $7.99 for the first box set. Those numbers are just for the day of the ad. The conversion rates from the advertised book were even higher on BN and Apple.

I know FBS is a different beast than BB, but maybe someone who had a BB freebie can give some dls and str numbers just as a point of comparison?

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Offline cinisajoy

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #312 on: December 04, 2013, 10:50:09 AM »
See red flags they are now waving all over the place.
I notice that he is trying to say we want to SEE his mailing list, when that is NOT the case at all.  Some of us are voracious readers and would love to have more free books offered.
He is IGNORING the real readers and saying that we can't get on his list.

Now as per OJ's, Estelle's and Monique's books.   I find it rather odd that you had that many downloads but did not get a free mention on a couple of sites.   I have seen both Monique and Estelle on both sites before.   These are two sites that do not allow authors to advertise.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,216185.msg3013849.html#new

Please help our friend and fellow kboarder Craig Hansen.

Offline telracs

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #313 on: December 04, 2013, 10:55:54 AM »
See red flags they are now waving all over the place.
I notice that he is trying to say we want to SEE his mailing list, when that is NOT the case at all.  Some of us are voracious readers and would love to have more free books offered.
He is IGNORING the real readers and saying that we can't get on his list.

Now as per OJ's, Estelle's and Monique's books.   I find it rather odd that you had that many downloads but did not get a free mention on a couple of sites.   I have seen both Monique and Estelle on both sites before.   These are two sites that do not allow authors to advertise.


I agree.

I'm stepping away from this thread now until the OP stops ignoring readers....

Online PhoenixS

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #314 on: December 04, 2013, 11:54:32 AM »
A small data point, granted it's not the same as str from a freebie, but... I had a BB on Box Set II for $0.99. Of the 1500 or so that bought that set, 200+ forked over $7.99 for the first box set. Those numbers are just for the day of the ad. The conversion rates from the advertised book were even higher on BN and Apple.

I know FBS is a different beast than BB, but maybe someone who had a BB freebie can give some dls and str numbers just as a point of comparison?

Monique, I provided numbers but not percentages earlier from a BB-backed free run. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,169160.msg2420847.html#msg2420847

Quick recap:

BB-backed free run (DAY 1 results only so we can get a fair comparison):
26,000 downloads of free book
180 sales of Book 2
0.7% conversion

That works out to 84 sales for 12,000 downloads. 10,000 DLs would generate 50 sales at the very least. Granted, price and presentation will figure into results, but we always see a fair number of sales on the day of the free run.

We're in the middle of Day 4 on the free run now, with 36,000 DLs and 285 sales on Book 2. The conversion percentage has increased to 0.8%.

Remember: These are IMMEDIATE conversions at point of sale. STR will, of course, be higher once folk have a chance to read.

Offline chrisanthropic

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #315 on: December 04, 2013, 11:54:48 AM »
I've been following the thread since the first page and I could be wrong but I think besides secrecy on his part (justified or not) there is a little communication problem (on the internet? NO.)

What it sounds like to me is that he won't share his email list or let people sign up to it because it's not a single list - it's an aggregate of various reading clubs, groups, etc.  Some or most of them may in fact be download-for-rewards (download elves) or not, we don't know.  But, if I'm understanding correctly, he can't let us sign up to the list because it's composed of reading group X, book club Y, and forum Z.  He can't sign you up for any of those places himself and he doesn't want to direct us to those places simply because larger clients/advertisers for XYZ don't want the word getting out.  

Not justifying anything, just trying to understand what both sides are saying.
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Offline Monique

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #316 on: December 04, 2013, 12:03:52 PM »
Monique, I provided numbers but not percentages earlier from a BB-backed free run. http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,169160.msg2420847.html#msg2420847

Quick recap:

BB-backed free run (DAY 1 results only so we can get a fair comparison):
26,000 downloads of free book
180 sales of Book 2
0.7% conversion

That works out to 84 sales for 12,000 downloads. 10,000 DLs would generate 50 sales at the very least. Granted, price and presentation will figure into results, but we always see a fair number of sales on the day of the free run.

We're in the middle of Day 4 on the free run now, with 36,000 DLs and 285 sales on Book 2. The conversion percentage has increased to 0.8%.

Remember: These are IMMEDIATE conversions at point of sale. STR will, of course, be higher once folk have a chance to read.

Ah, si. Sorry, I missed that. 26k!

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Offline Philip Gibson

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #317 on: December 04, 2013, 12:20:37 PM »
http://www.KevinGrass.com booth #106A),
Edited to add: Now you can see that Amazon has answered the question: real readers are downloading Estelle's book.

The Amazon reply didn't say the books were downloaded by real readers.  It said they were downloaded by real Amazon customers.

The number of Amazon customers must be 100s of times larger than the number of Amazon readers.

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Offline Saul Tanpepper

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #318 on: December 04, 2013, 12:24:24 PM »
Other than a great place to get rootbeer and cheese curds, what is AW?

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Offline Al Stevens

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #319 on: December 04, 2013, 12:40:35 PM »
Absolute Write, aka, The Water Cooler. Things can get downright feisty over there. Been months since I've visited them.
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Offline David Adams

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #320 on: December 04, 2013, 03:02:37 PM »
I don't know what this is. I like the results its given me so far. Last night I was ready to call it a scam. Now, with KDP having chimed in that they're real downloads? I don't know what to think.

STOP PLAYING GAMES WITH MY HEART, KBOARDS.

All we know for sure is that the books are being downloaded by people with an Amazon account. Amazon sells a lot more than books; for example, let's say Google (which owns eBay) linked people's eBay and Google Play accounts, combining them under one service (which is basically what Amazon is really, Play+eBay).

Then the OP said that he was offering 10,000+ downloads on books on Google Play. No worries.

Then people emailed Google Play and asked if they're legit; they are, because OP is marketing to eBay users. So people are downloading them with their eBay accounts. People who have no desire to read the books and never will, because as far as they're concerned, it's "click button, get rewards". They don't care about what they're clicking.

It's kind of like that. Amazon is much, much bigger than Kindle.

My main concern is what a promotion of this nature would do for also-bots.
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Offline VydorScope

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #321 on: December 04, 2013, 03:20:40 PM »
My main concern is what a promotion of this nature would do for also-bots.

Well, at least for Monique they look reasonable: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036Z9W00
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Offline cinisajoy

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #322 on: December 04, 2013, 03:41:15 PM »
Well, at least for Monique they look reasonable: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036Z9W00
Monique also has a BB promo going on another book.
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,216185.msg3013849.html#new

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Offline Mandy

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #323 on: December 04, 2013, 04:02:03 PM »
Wouldn't a supposed list like this eventually lose quite a lot of (real) loyal subscribers if there is no selective process to help weed out the lower quality books? As a reader, I'm not familiar with the behind-the-scenes works of BookBub, but, judging by the way you guys talk about it, it seems they are pretty strict about the books they will accept and feature, and it's a pretty big deal if you get accepted. If I were subscribed to a mailing list that featured bargain books, and I ended up downloading a few "duds" that clearly had little to no editing, I'd probably unsubscribe.

Offline Philip Gibson

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Re: Kindle "Free Book Service" official thread - Increase your rank
« Reply #324 on: December 04, 2013, 07:16:55 PM »
Wouldn't a supposed list like this eventually lose quite a lot of (real) loyal subscribers if there is no selective process to help weed out the lower quality books?

I think it's clear by now that the initial downloads are not from readers. They are from Amazon customers but not readers per se. They are clicking for reasons other than the desire to get a free book.

As the OP obliquely stated, if the first 10,000 downloads are from his guaranteed (non reader) downloads and that generates a further 2,000 (or 5,000) downloads from actual potential readers due to the increased rankings/visibility, then if the conversion/transfer rate to other actual potential readers is high, the service has been proven effective.

We should get an idea of the actual conversion/transfer rate (real free downloads:sales) in the next few days.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 07:21:44 PM by Philip Gibson »

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