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Bookmarq.net Promotional Thread (MERGED)

26K views 101 replies 45 participants last post by  unkownwriter 
#1 ·
If you're starting out as an author you need exposure but it's hard to find at an affordable price. The Amazon store is now so packed with books that at the recent London Book Fair all the talk was of the "discoverability" problem - how do people find your books,

Reviews are obviously one way but a Kirkus Review costs $425 and frankly most of them are not very good. As an author myself but with a background in book and music marketing, a few months ago I started to work on ways of dealing with this. Obviously I wanted to promote my books but to do that I needed to provide something that would be useful to other authors too.

The outcome is we have created something which I believe can act as a marketing toolbox for authors to promote their work. It's designed to be affordable - a book page complete with cover shot and description starts at $10 and you will only pay $30 for a short review. Even a full review is affordable at $75.

It's very easy to set up - all you do is complete a form, pay by PayPal and you're good to go.

I hope you try it and I hope you like it. I really hope we can help you sell a lot of books

The web address for the $10 book page promo is at
http://www.bookmarq.net/add-book-page-book-page-plus-review/

Obviously there's a lot more to see on the website as well.

Meantime I hope you like the cartoon (below) from 20px about what it is like to be an author on the internet these days.



Edited to shrink image. Thanks for understanding. --Betsy
 
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#77 ·
Hi Bat Cauldron

Not quite. The reviews exchange is a package which enables you to submit a book for review like Net Galley.

That goes out to 142 reviewers currently. These are people we provide with their own blog free of charge. Typically 3-5, sometimes more, will decide to review. Nobody gets paid to review a book and they are all independent.

The reviews are owned by the reviewer but are licensed under Creative Commons. You can decide which reviews you want to use or include.

Reviews become part of the author promotion package which starts at $70. It is transactional so all fees are based on a commission of what you actually sell.

If you need to know more send me an email to conrad.murray@bookmarq.net
 
#78 ·
Hi.

Thanks for clearing that up. One more question (in four movements) - how do you establish what sales have come about as a result of the reviews? Do you take a commission based on all sales? If so, for how long? The life of the book?

It's probably better to ask and answer any questions here to prevent any repetition from other KB members -- using up your time -- and to make sure everyone has visibility.

Thanks again for the response.
 
#79 ·
No problem.

It's not a review package. It's a marketing package.

A $70 submission gets you on the exchange. They may or may not review and you may or may not choose to use those reviews.

Reviews are provided under Creative Commons. What you use is up to you.

In respect of marketing we provide a page which confirms each sale we have delivered after it has occurred and trace these back to the original campaign so you only pay for what we sell. If you want how this works in detail I am happy to provide,
 
#80 ·
To me this seems to be a case of thou-protesting-too-much.

I have no idea whether Bookmarq.net is a legitimate and ethical service, but I do think that if I was running a business like that, then I would go out of my way to market my own books through the channels that I am promising to market other people's books. So I would sell on Amazon, and show how brilliant I am at doing that. I would have a huge Twitter following, a successful FB page, tons of reviews and testimonials that can be verified etc.

The beauty of online marketing/selling is that it can be quite transparent. For example, a lot of ppl on KBoards know that BKnights is - for the most part- a very good way of promoting books. It works so well, that people cannot shut up about it. For the time it does not work, there are no excuses made, and authors just accept what is.

So maybe all you need is some legitimate clients to sing your praises here, and then we can all analyse those authors genres, rankings, trends, etc and draw our own conclusions.
 
#81 ·
Conrad,

we don't allow starting a new topic to continue a conversation in a locked topic--there's not much point to us locking a topic if we allow that.  We are in discussions about the now several bookmarque.net threads and your metadata thread on how best to proceed from here. 

EDIT:  Several threads have been merged while discussions continue.  Some posts will be pruned.

You're welcome to PM me if you have additional questions.

Betsy
KB Moderator
 
#82 ·
Conrad and Paige and other bookmarq.net staff--

You're welcome to promote your business and website here in the Writers' Cafe, but we ask that the same basic rules be followed as we have for authors in the Book Bazaar:  you may have one thread about your service and must post to it rather than start a new thread each time.  New threads about the service wil be removed.  Please bookmark this thread so that you can find it again to post to.  And, you may not make back-to-back posts to the thread within seven days.  All bookmarq.net staff will be considered one person for posting purposes--if any of you posts, all of you must wait seven days to post unless a non-bookmarq.net associate posts in the interim.  If someone responds (such as this post), you may reply but otherwise must wait seven days, thanks!

We anticipate unlocking this thread a bit later today after a final review.  Warning:  We expect civility on all sides.  Tough questions are appropriate and will be allowed to stand as long as they are civil.

EDIT:  Reopening thread.

Betsy
KB Moderator
 
#84 ·
Amber Rose said:
To me this seems to be a case of thou-protesting-too-much.

I have no idea whether Bookmarq.net is a legitimate and ethical service, but I do think that if I was running a business like that, then I would go out of my way to market my own books through the channels that I am promising to market other people's books. So I would sell on Amazon, and show how brilliant I am at doing that. I would have a huge Twitter following, a successful FB page, tons of reviews and testimonials that can be verified etc.
Amber Rose

My CV is fully available on LinkedIn and has been for the last few years. It includes a background going back 30 years which includes working for some major media brands including as a producer for the BBC and CNN and a solid unbroken history of 20+ years online marketing.

I invented a system for marketing Digital Products through Social Media around two years ago, set up a company, Loytech BV to sell it and successfully used it to promote bands in the music business and to get people to take up accounts in the gaming and gambling industry. Playtech which is the world's largest gaming business were our largest customer and we sold the IP on the gaming business to them earlier this year.

We already had a number of publisher clients who were using the system for promotion and continue to do so hence I formed bookmarq.net to deal with them in May. It essentially provides WordPress Hosting for writers but with a number of additional marketing tools available to them. I don't need to sell it - they come to us - usually referred by other writers or publishers who use and like the service. We currently host around 1400 author websites at $150 a year and 150+ reviewer websites (free). We provide gateways to other services such as cover design, editing, training etc which are doing well.

I have written a couple of digital marketing manuals which along with training courses sell to corporate clients at prices which wouldn't work on Amazon.

Frankly I couldn't give a toss about the number of followers the corporate has on Twitter or the "friends" we have on Facebook. I have run a campaign across both in the last month which has generated 2m eyeballs and 48,000 coupon redemptions on books so far but I wouldn't imagine anyone who looked at it or bought would have a clue about our involvement.

So far I have written two pieces on KB, one which was a formula which simplifies what you need to think about if you want to market books which proved so uncontroversial no-one commented on it for ten hours and a second on metadata which no one has managed to disagree with. Neither were sales pitches.

I have a few ideas which I am still formulating about book marketing which I think may well benefit some people but I am nervous about the future of a market where there seem to be more writers than readers.
 
#85 ·
I read your post, and the reason I didn't comment was because it has so little substance. It's full of generalities that everyone already knows and no one would disagree with. That doesn't mean that you have anything of value to offer. [edits because you edited]

No one here trusts you. Why don't you pick one author you think will be a good fit for your model, give him or her the works gratis, and then let them tell the rest of us the results? That would be worth a hundred hours of you trying to sell your services to us using vague terms that really don't much explain the how your service actually works.
 
#86 ·
The thing that I find really bizarre here is that you're using these really, really top-shelf boasts (Millions of eyes! Forty thousand copies! Marketing secrets people spend thousands of dollars to read!) and then trying to sell us on peanuts (A wordpress site! Cover art! 3-5 reviews!).

When I want a glass of water, I don't fill up my bathtub. When I want to set up a website using a really popular and accessible platform, I don't go hunting for a high-powered marketing guru.

Though I have to say, the thing I find hardest to believe is the Knopf novel.

 
#87 ·
Let's sum things up about Bookmarq/Conrad Murray/Paige Doyle.

1. Conrad Murray has lots and lots of important clients, but he can't tell you who they are and his work leaves no trace on the internet, other than posts he writes. Funny that.

2. Conrad Murray has a book coming out with Knopf next year. Or so he says, because there is no mention of it anywhere on the internet. He then tries to say it's written under a pen-name. How convenient.

3. Conrad Murray claims to be doing giant promotional campaigns for huge companies, totally vague and unverifiable claims, and yet he's here trying to hustle business for cheap Wordpress hosting. Seems odd, doesn't it?

4. PaigeDoyle (who doesn't seem to exist outside Conrad Murray's head) claims that Bookmarq have an "award-winning iRabbit Reader Multiplication system." Isn't it strange that such an acclaimed award-winning system which has had success in three different industries has - you guessed it! - left no trace on the internet.

5. All of the links PaigeDoyle shared above are broken, e.g. http://bookmarq.net/public-schools-and-the-great-war-the-generation-lost-by-anthony-seldon-and-david-walsh-2/ & http://bookmarq.net/why-bm-blog/ & http://bookmarq.net/marketing-packages-overview/ - not a great sign Bookmarq knows what it's doing. When you click on the bio for Paige Doyle - http://bookmarq.net/author/newpaige/ - that link is also broken. And you are supposed to pay these guys for web design/hosting?

6. As for the "services" that Bookmarq is selling (and touting here across numerous threads), let's take Cover Design as an example. Here's their page - http://bookmarq.net/self-publishing/professional-cover-design/ - Note that it doesn't have one single example of a cover they have designed, or any price at all. Serious red flags.

7. In case you think I'm cherry-picking, here's the page on print formatting. Again, no prices, and very shady looking: http://bookmarq.net/self-publishing/professional-book-production/

8. Again, their "Managed Book Marketing" page has no prices for their services. Or no examples of clients they have worked with, or case studies, or anything really except a load of generalized guff, and then a form where you fill out your contact details. Uber shady: http://bookmarq.net/marketing-services/

9. They actually provide a service which claims to help you find an agent. First they squeeze you with money providing a "critique" (although I don't know how Conrad Murray's supposed experience in data marketing qualifies him to know what agents are looking for). This critique costs $175 per 10,000 words. Then they charge you $199 to write a query letter which goes to 10 agents, and each additional agent is charged at $10 a pop. Then they hilariously claim to be able to represent you in negotiations and finally hammer out the contract, and for this service, you will pay a "Price related to value of contract." This is so, so dodgy. Read about it here: http://bookmarq.net/traditional-authors/

10. Bookmarq has a "Rights Reversion Management" program where (for a fee, but they don't say how much) they will get your rights back from your publisher - despite the fact that Conrad Murray or Paige Doyle aren't lawyers and don't seem to know anything about book contracts. They will then republish the titles as e-books, and pay you 50% net. Wow. Sign me up! http://bookmarq.net/traditional-authors/rights-reversion-management/

11. They claim to be "book marketing professionals" but don't know the difference between a Facebook Profile and a Facebook Page.

12. Conrad Murray claims to have years of marketing experience, but then he names one of his products an iRabbit (famous sex toy). Really? That's too funny.

Run away, people.
 
#88 ·
And if that's not enough to convince you on what Conrad Murray is up to here, this is a brief history of his KBoards membership.

1. Joined August 1st.

2. Aug 2, posted to this cover design thread, offering his services: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191164.msg2698769.html#msg2698769

3. Aug 2, posted to this Createspace thread, offering his services: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191010.msg2698792.html#msg2698792

4. Aug 2, again touted for business in the cover design thread: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191164.msg2698836.html#msg2698836

5. Aug 3, pimped his services in an editing thread: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191044.msg2699482.html#msg2699482

6. Aug 6, started a thread on metadata, pimped his services at the end: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,188987.msg2702741.html#msg2702741

7. Aug 6, touted for business in a thread on pirates: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191739.msg2702761.html#msg2702761

8. Aug 6, promoted his social media expertise (LOL!) and touted for business in this thread on social media http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191370.msg2703131.html#msg2703131

9. Aug 6, again touted for business in that same thread: http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,191370.msg2703244.html#msg2703244

I can keep going. Is there really any doubt about this guy and why he's here?
 
#89 ·
Your prices for creating a query letter are extremely unethical never mind that you want a commission on the contract, and your "reversion rights management" is screamingly exploitative.

If you're not going to give someone on kboards the full treatment, why don't you at least outline what kind of campaign you've run on Facebook?  Just one campaign that you've run--who, how, what, and results.
 
#90 ·
Conrad.Murray said:
I invented a system for marketing Digital Products through Social Media around two years ago, set up a company, Loytech BV to sell it and successfully used it to promote bands in the music business and to get people to take up accounts in the gaming and gambling industry. Playtech which is the world's largest gaming business were our largest customer and we sold the IP on the gaming business to them earlier this year.
Does this company have a website? The URL listed on Linkedin is loytech.com, but that domain is not active, and when you examine the history, it's clear that whoever registered that domain only registered it on September 2013 (in its current iteration). Your domain for your highly internet company was inactive between January 2012 and September 2013, when you claim to be in operation.

http://whoisrequest.org/history/loytech.com

If only there were a way to find out if Loytech as a company ever existed in the UK! It's not like companies have to be registered in the UK, or that registration information is public.

Oh. Wait. They do, and the registration is, and anyone can search for themselves here:
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo
and figure out that your massive company...was not, in fact, a registered company.

Conrad.Murray said:
We already had a number of publisher clients who were using the system for promotion and continue to do so hence I formed bookmarq.net to deal with them in May. It essentially provides WordPress Hosting for writers but with a number of additional marketing tools available to them. I don't need to sell it - they come to us - usually referred by other writers or publishers who use and like the service. We currently host around 1400 author websites at $150 a year and 150+ reviewer websites (free). We provide gateways to other services such as cover design, editing, training etc which are doing well.
Wow. 1400 authors have switched hosting--and to you!--in three months! That's pretty impressive. Too bad you don't mention who they are. Naturally, as someone with a number of publisher clients, and as a legitimate enterprise that sold your IP to a huge company, you likely have a lawyer on retainer who advised you about things like your website terms and conditions: http://bookmarq.net/terms-and-conditions/

(Screenshot for posterity since these guys are scrubbing traces).


These appear to have been plagiarized directly from Bloomsbury's terms and conditions, changing only the name: https://www.writersandartists.co.uk/terms-and-conditions

And you've done so wholesale, even including terms like this:



where there are no biographies on your site.

I've been told to be "civil," but frankly, I'm not sure what that means in a case like this. Is it uncivil for me to call Connor Murray a "liar" when he has yet to make a verifiable claim, and not a single statement that he makes stands up to even the slightest scrutiny?

Is it uncivil for me to say that he is not running a legitimate business when his company is not registered, does not have a website record that tracks his claims, does not exist in the media in any form, has no verifiable clients or demonstrable successes, and plagiarizes its terms and conditions even when such plagiarism makes no sense?

Calling someone a "liar" and a "scammer" is surely uncivil when there is reasonable doubt. But being a liar and a scammer is also uncivil, and when people are in fact liars and scammers, labeling them as such is a matter of fact.
 
#93 ·
VMた said:
FWIW, legal documents aren't protected under copyright and can't be plagiarized. But as for the rest.....
(a) Plagiarism and copyright violation are not the same thing. That is why I used the word "plagiarized" and not words like "pirated" or "infringed." Plagiarism is copying without attribution.

(b) I don't know where you're getting your information, and don't know the rule in the UK, but in the US, the author of a legal document absolutely has copyright in that legal document. Fair use usually allows the wide dissemination of some legal documents for noncommercial purposes, but this? No. [ETA 2: In the UK, legal documents are also copyrighted: http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/legal-documents-bound-by-rules-of-copyright/38484.article]

ETA:

(c) In this case, the reason I cite it is to demonstrate the ongoing illegitimacy of the company, and the legal status is irrelevant. If you're plagiarizing your T&C, and not customizing them to your site, it's almost certain that you don't have counsel on retainer, and you aren't the massive business you represent yourself to be.
 
G
#94 ·
VMた said:
FWIW, legal documents aren't protected under copyright and can't be plagiarized. But as for the rest.....
Copyright infringement and plagiarism are actually two different things. For example, If I publish a version of Hamlet by William Shakespeare, there is no infringement because the work is in the public domain. But if I publish Hamlet and put MY name on it without any acknowledgement of the Bard, it is still plagiarism. Plagiarism is not a crime, but an ethical violation.
 
G
#95 ·
I have to say that this type of thread reminds me why I am so happy to have found these boards.

While I am too poor to ever hand my hard earned pennies over to a company like this, plenty of other people will do so in the drive to become successful.

It is great to know that rather than ignoring things like this, people here will check it out and let others know whether or not it is somewhat dubious...

 
#96 ·
Courtney Milan said:
(b) I don't know where you're getting your information, and don't know the rule in the UK, but in the US, the author of a legal document absolutely has copyright in that legal document. Fair use usually allows the wide dissemination of some legal documents for noncommercial purposes, but this? No. [ETA 2: In the UK, legal documents are also copyrighted: http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/legal-documents-bound-by-rules-of-copyright/38484.article]
I was a copyright lawyer in London a while back - and, yes, copyright exists in legal documents.
 
#97 ·
Courtney Milan said:
(a) Plagiarism and copyright violation are not the same thing. That is why I used the word "plagiarized" and not words like "pirated" or "infringed." Plagiarism is copying without attribution.

(b) I don't know where you're getting your information, and don't know the rule in the UK, but in the US, the author of a legal document absolutely has copyright in that legal document. Fair use usually allows the wide dissemination of some legal documents for noncommercial purposes, but this? No. [ETA 2: In the UK, legal documents are also copyrighted: http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/legal-documents-bound-by-rules-of-copyright/38484.article]

ETA:

(c) In this case, the reason I cite it is to demonstrate the ongoing illegitimacy of the company, and the legal status is irrelevant. If you're plagiarizing your T&C, and not customizing them to your site, it's almost certain that you don't have counsel on retainer, and you aren't the massive business you represent yourself to be.
Oh, interesting! In the US, they can't be, hence the existence of Doc Stock and similar sites.

Yes, of course, it still speaks to the size of the company and its likely accomplishments.
 
#100 ·
VMた said:
Oh, interesting! In the US, they can't be, hence the existence of Doc Stock and similar sites.

Yes, of course, it still speaks to the size of the company and its likely accomplishments.
Uh... no, legal documents in the US are still absolutely subject to copyright. They're works of authorship fixed in a tangible medium.
 
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