Author Topic: Kindle Unlimited: the scoop threads merged... :)  (Read 139094 times)  

Online Edward M. Grant

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2014, 10:14:45 AM »
You don't get paid cover price. You get paid your normal royalty. So if the royalty is 60%, you would get $1.79 on a $2.99 book.

Mine are coming through Smashwords, so I presume it's using whatever royalty percentage they agreed. I'll have to look at the numbers more closely.

But, even at that rate, if someone reads one book a week and I get $1.79 for each of those, Scribd is making about $1 a month from that reader. One extra book a month and they're making a loss.

Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2014, 10:21:34 AM »
Here's an article from late last year that says Scribd has 2% of their subscribers reading more than 10 books a month. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/25/technology/as-new-services-track-habits-the-e-books-are-reading-you.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

They don't say what percentage are reading 0.

Aside: It would be very interesting to know if Zon will introduce percent-read into rankings, suggesting that a fully-read book is better than a 10% read book.

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2014, 10:31:14 AM »
Heh, I can't even convince my readers to leave a review, never mind click through a book they're not going to read.
Can't people just borrow a book and then download it to their computer? Not sure how the borrow-thing works.

Nope, they can't download to a computer. You can read in your browser on a computer or download to a tablet/smartphone. However, you can't get it off your tablet. It's hidden in an archive file somewhere. I spent a significant amount of time trying this after I read a scare article about how subscription services will increase piracy because ZOMG! people will download hundreds of subscription books and upload them to pirate sites. Or maybe it was download hundreds of books with their free trial month. Something like that.

Nate at Digital Reader and I spent much of a morning trying to get a book out of Scribd, and we couldn't do it. Not saying it *can't* be done, just that two tech-savvy people couldn't do it. Which we agreed meant that the danger was over-rated.

 
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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2014, 10:31:38 AM »
This was in the Publisher's Lunch newsletter. I just got my email copy:

http://lunch.publishersmarketplace.com/2014/07/amazon-prepares-kindle-unlimited-subscription-offer-probably/

Quote
As we have reported previously on multiple occasions, Amazon has been talking to publishers about an ebook subscription offering for some time now -- and a cached version of a page that was put up recently and then taken down confirms the basic details. "Kindle Unlimited" is the name of the program, which promises "unlimited access to over 600,000 titles and thousands of audiobooks...for just $9.99 a month."

That cached page prominently promotes big series -- Lord of the Rings; Harry Potter; and The Hunger Games. Amazon already had a big, direct license for Harry Potter for Kindle Owner's Lending Library. The company had previously offered Hunger Games for borrowing through the Kindle Owners Lending Library, though they did so without any specific permission from Scholastic, which was paid full price on each lend. Scholastic spokesperson Kyle Good confirms to us that it is "the same situation" for Kindle Unlimited -- Amazon informed Scholastic they would be including the books in this program and "they have the right to do it" under their current contract, though there was "no new negotiated deal" specifically covering this usage. As with KOLL, Scholastic will get paid their full wholesale price every time one of their ebooks is opened by a Kindle Unlimited subscriber.

Other wholesale-basis publishers who declined Amazon's offers to authorize participation have reported the same thing as Scholastic: That Amazon told publishers the etailer has the right to include ebooks in the initiative without permission, as long as they pay for each open as a regular sale. Offers made to publishers to directly authorize participation were similar to the way existing subscription programs such as Oyster and Scribd operate, where the publisher is paid full price after a certain specific percentage of any book is read.

Houghton Mifflin Harcourt titles beyond just Lord of the Rings are featured prominently on that cached Kindle Unlimited page (including ebooks by Jumpha Lahiri, Margaret Atwood, and Jonathan Safran Foer) and more HMH titles can be found in KU catalog search, creating an impression that the publisher is participating directly. From a quick search of the available catalog, the program also seems to include books from some other publishers known to have directly agreed to participation in KOLL, such as F+W. It appears that you can search a KU Test catalog and/or a KU search box for now.

Reports on the Kindle Boards discussion forums indicate that Amazon automatically enrolled the 500,000 or more self-published books in the KDP Select program, which seems to account for the bulk of the titles on offer. So it's not clear yet how significantly the Unlimited catalog might differ from the KOLL catalog. On author forums, they were expressing uncertainty about how KDP Select authors will be paid. It could be that they continue to receive a pro-rated share of a pool of amount determined by Amazon, which is how the KOLL "borrows" work, or Amazon might have a different compensation program in mind that they have not explained yet to authors. One person did post having seen something in the FAQ that was also taken down. By their account, it said: "Books in Select will automatically be enrolled. Like the KOLL you won't be able to opt-out if you're in Select. You will be payed if you someone reads 10% or more of your book. The payment will come out of the same KOLL fund, just as if it was a borrow. There was no mention if they would be increasing the fund or not."

Agency Lite publishers we were able to reach this morning declined to comment on the coming program. From our previous queries, we do not know of any of those five publishers that accepted Amazon's offers. HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster are the only two of the Big Five currently participating in competing subscription programs. In the past, full agency contracts were known to prevent an offer like this without the publisher's direct consent. It's less clear to us whether that is the case under the newer agency contracts as modified by the consent decrees.

It's also not clear when Amazon will officially announce and launch the program. The company did not respond to our requests for comment. Some publishers told us weeks ago they were told the announcement was coming within days. Other publishers tell us they were notified just recently that the launch is due soon.

Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2014, 10:33:58 AM »
Something kind of funny.... Searching "test" under KU brings up only 4 books. One is fiction: "Diary of a Wimpy Kid." That is published by Abrams, which is is distributed by.... HACHETTE.  :D  :o


Offline Colin

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2014, 10:35:21 AM »


Sorry Hugh, but it had to be done!   :D

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2014, 10:41:08 AM »
Just got this from KDP support:

Quote
Hello,

Thanks for contacting us.

I understand that you'll like to know how royalties work for Kindle Unlimited.

When a Kindle Unlimited customer chooses your book for the first time and reads more than 10% of it, or a KOLL user downloads it, their choice qualifies toward royalty payment for you. Customers can always read your book again, as many times as they like, but that won't qualify toward your royalty payments. You can even choose your own book and receive one royalty paymentas long as you're reading it only for the first time, and read more than 10% of it.

These requirements apply to books in both the Kindle Owners' Lending Library and Kindle Unlimited.

To learn more about royalties:

https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=AI3QMVN4FMTXJ

I hope this helps. Thanks for using KDP.

Interesting that they're okay with us choosing our own book. I wonder if this will factor into our rankings.
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Offline RBC

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2014, 10:42:56 AM »
Well this is insane.. As a reader, I love it, as someone who works with authors.. this is scary [crap]!

As mentioned, subscriptions can work in Music industry because people listen to music for hours every day. So the plays add up to billions and billions. In a way, it's even fair that the songs that get listened to most will earn most. But for books, like DVDs it's different.

The only positive is that it might actually increase the amount of readers overall if this is made to be very easy to read and consume.

Offline WDR

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2014, 10:54:27 AM »
Well

Until I see some numbers offered up by Amazon for what they are wiling to pay authors for their participation, I really can't say anything outside of pure speculation and opinion. I'm not even exactly sure where to start or go with my opinion on the matter. Until then, I've got lots of random thoughts:

What are the terms on which I am paid? Am I paid once when one reader reads my book and that is it? The reader reads my book as many times as they want in perpetuity? That is a purchase, as far as I am concerned, I should be paid my full sales share in that event. As a subscription service, I would assume that each time a book is read, a little something is paid to the author. Of course, that won't be the full sales share, but it shouldn't be microscopic, either. Amazon has to make a profit to make a subscription service work, but they can't starve out the author at the same time.

Will there be a limit to how many times an individual may read any one given title? That would make it profitable for both Amazon and the author. The reader can read as many titles as they want, but only ONCE per each title. If they want to read it again, they'll have to buy it. That would work for me. That means I would get paid twice per each ebook sold: once when the reader samples my book and the second time when they come back to buy it. It would be like getting paid a bonus.

It appears that the books listed are Kindle Select only. That makes sense to test the program from Select titles, anyway. When the service becomes live, will it be part of or be replacing the Kindle Select Lending Library? Or will this be a new service? If it is a new service, will it be open to all authors or will authors have to sign up for Kindle Select? I'm not sure I'm willing to close off my sales channels like that.

Kindle Select is great when you are an author with a dedicated following. You are guaranteed that they will borrow your bookand you get paid for thatand then they will most likely buy the book later on. So you get paid twice for one book. But if you are a new author with no following, you will get screwed royally for three months if a popular author releases a book at the same time you did. With only one or two free borrows per month available from the KOLL, [most of the time] a reader will go for the sure thing rather than take a chance on an unknown.

If Kindle Unlimited is open to all authors with no exclusivity limitations, I might participate and allow my titles to be included in the program.

My last thought: this cuts "whales" out of the picture.

A whale in casinos is someone who gambles a large amount of money each time they come for a visit. What a whale loses at a casino more than offsets the cost of food, rooming, and even perks such as limo pick up at the airport, car rentals, tickets for shows, etc. So, whales get all this stuff for free.

So, a "whale" to the book industry is one of those people who reads voraciously on the order of three or more books per week. These people see a book, they buy it. These are the people who will jump on a brand new book from a brand new author immediately on its release. Might take them a couple of years before it comes up on their reading list. By my estimate, between 15%20% of the copies sold of my own book were to whales.

The flip side is, whales often don't or won't read any given book twice. A whale might spend $9 per day on books. So, $9 per month means they can read all the titles they want at a much reduced budget. That means if a whale borrowed my book and I got paid a few pennies for that borrow, I will probably never see the sale. So if my above estimate is true, I could see a potential 15%20% reduction in early sales of my books. That could hurt.

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Offline abishop

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2014, 10:59:57 AM »
People didn't stop buying DVD's because of Netflix. People didn't stop buying books because of libraries, loaning, paperbackswap etc. People didn't stop buying music because of music services.

DVD sales are definitely declining as Netflix gains market share, though much of that may be moving to digital purchases.

And sales of music have been in decline for years.

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Online Rosalind J

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2014, 11:06:30 AM »
DVD sales are definitely declining as Netflix gains market share, though much of that may be moving to digital purchases.

And sales of music have been in decline for years.
On the other hand, people are buying more books with the advent of ebooks. Especially the kind of reader (like me and many of my friends) who used to get books at the library, or the romance readers who'd buy boxes of paperbacks at yard sales. Could it not be that subscription services and the popularity of reading on devices (like smartphones, for younger people) might cause people to read more, and more widely? I know that both my adult (twentysomething) sons read a lot--and a lot of classics, to my shock, partly because they're free. One son just read Don Quixote, War and Peace, and Moby Dick. I've never read any of them!

It's just different, that's all. And the way we'll be paid in the future is probably different. Anyone who relied mostly on royalties from sales of their paperbacks from their traditional publisher might have reason to be very nervous, but I'm not so sure we do. Unsettled, maybe.

Personally, when I look at the net effect of all this recent change? Not a doubt in my mind that it's a win, for me and for most of us. Nobody wanted to spit at my books two years ago. Now? Different story. All thanks to ebooks, and, yes, thanks to Amazon. I'm not the only one. How many of us would be published if not for this revolution? But the revolution's still in its early changes. Adapt or die, that's the bottom line. We can adapt. We're lucky. We're the mammals in the undergrowth, peering out at the dinosaurs out there. The mammals survived.

Offline SummerNights

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2014, 11:08:41 AM »
Quote
You're eligible for royalty payment from Kindle Unlimited each time a new customer reads more than 10% of your book for the first time. A customer can read your book again as many times as they like, but you will only receive payment for the first 10% read.

It may take months for a customer to read more than 10% your book, but no matter how long it takes, you'll still be paid once it happens. This is true even if your KDP Select enrollment period has lapsed, and you chose not to re-enroll.

Doesn't that pretty much mean it will only be available for Select books?

Offline RBC

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2014, 11:11:49 AM »
DVD sales are definitely declining as Netflix gains market share, though much of that may be moving to digital purchases.

And sales of music have been in decline for years.

Newest laptops don't even have DVD ROM anymore so they will be dead in 2 years. Some will keep DVD players but they might become same thing as music fans who collect Vinyls.

And while sales of music had declined, music consumption actually grew and bloomed too. These two aren't 100% correlated.

Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2014, 11:16:47 AM »
Doesn't that pretty much mean it will only be available for Select books?

Would seem to be Select. So Amazon's inventory would look a whole lot different than Scribd's.
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Online Rosalind J

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2014, 11:18:33 AM »
I'm guessing it's a Select thing mostly, but look at the big-name Indie authors who recently became available through the KOLL, and, as others have pointed out, titles like Harry Potter that have always been available--whichever authors/publishers Amazon made a deal with, to have their books available. I'm thinking that pool might grow. They want to rival Scribd.

I'm not personally a huge Scribd fan, as they had pirated copies of a couple of my books up on their site with hundreds of downloads recorded. Seems any user can put a book up there, and Scribd doesn't seem to do any kind of checking at all as to whether that book is actually free or eligible for their service. I'm guessing that won't happen with Amazon! Thank goodness.

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2014, 11:21:47 AM »
I'm guessing it's a Select thing mostly, but look at the big-name Indie authors who recently became available through the KOLL, and, as others have pointed out, titles like Harry Potter that have always been available--whichever authors/publishers Amazon made a deal with, to have their books available. I'm thinking that pool might grow. They want to rival Scribd.

I'm not personally a huge Scribd fan, as they had pirated copies of a couple of my books up on their site with hundreds of downloads recorded. Seems any user can put a book up there, and Scribd doesn't seem to do any kind of checking at all as to whether that book is actually free or eligible for their service. I'm guessing that won't happen with Amazon! Thank goodness.

Personally I like the idea of a non-Select only Amazon subscription service, but to be fair, Scribd has taken quite a few effective (at least for my titles) regarding protecting them. At least as far as I know  :)
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Offline GP Hudson

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2014, 11:33:04 AM »
I wonder how Kindle Unlimited will affect services like Bookbub?


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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2014, 11:34:30 AM »
I'm a bit unsure of any subscription model, of course, but it's the way digital content is moving. Television and music has already gone this way. Perhaps Amazon fought it as long as it could, but if sites like Scribd are gaining ground, it would be irresponsible of Amazon (as a business) to not stay ahead of the curve. So I hope Amazon does right by authors and keeps royalties high.

However, and this is where Amazon can choose to be nice or not, I really hope this program is opt-in for non-Select authors. A program like Kindle Unlimited will lower normal book sales a bit, that much is clear. If non-Select authors are fenced out of this program then this is putting authors between a rock and a hard place. Specifically indie authors. So I hope Amazon does right by us.

On the plus side, this is almost like perma-free from the perspective of the reader, while the author still gets paid, so getting reads should be easier.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 11:37:00 AM by Domino Finn »

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Online Rosalind J

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2014, 11:39:10 AM »
I'm a bit unsure of any subscription model, of course, but it's the way digital content is moving. Television and music has already gone this way. Perhaps Amazon fought it as long as it could, but if sites like Scribd are gaining ground, it would be irresponsible of Amazon (as a business) to not stay ahead of the curve. So I hope Amazon does right by authors and keeps royalties high.

However, and this is where Amazon can choose to be nice or not, I really hope this program is opt-in for non-Select authors. A program like Kindle Unlimited will lower normal book sales a bit, that much is clear. If non-Select authors are fenced out of this program then this is putting authors between a rock and a hard place. Specifically indie authors. So I hope Amazon does right by us.
But why on earth would anyone choose to be in Select, if there weren't real benefits to it? Amazon has to offer something, something valuable, in exchange for exclusivity. "Free" and Countdown alone sure won't do it, because you can of course do better with permafree on the other sites, and Countdown's value is limited too (let's just say it works a whole lot better in conjunction with BookBub). Borrows, right now, are one of the main reasons I'm in. If there's a new subscription service, staying in Select might just get a whole lot more attractive. But it would have to be exclusive to Select members, or ... no. There'd be no point.

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2014, 11:40:33 AM »
However, and this is where Amazon can choose to be nice or not, I really hope this program is opt-in for non-Select authors. A program like Kindle Unlimited will lower normal book sales a bit, that much is clear. If non-Select authors are fenced out of this program then this is putting authors between a rock and a hard place.

Select is already a little short on incentive. Without the KOLL, what is there?
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Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2014, 11:49:10 AM »
I get more for borrows on my boks than for sales, so anything that encourages borrows (if it's at the same royalty as KOLL) will be a plus for me  ;D

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Offline dmac

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2014, 11:51:28 AM »
I was concerned about the subscription model, but as someone explained to me how places like Scribd/Netflix could stay in business, I think this will be fine. Depending on the fine print (as it always does), this could be a boon for authors. Most people will sign up because it is Amazon, but not everyone will take advantage. If everyone did, then Netflix and buffets everywhere would not be in business.

Let us wait and see what Amazon has up their sleeves. No use getting reactionary (pro or con) over it until then.

Offline Olivia Jaymes

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2014, 11:57:12 AM »
I agree that Select is short on incentive.  I had my first book in it and was getting what I thought were a decent amount of borrows (about 100 per month).  Once I went on to other platforms, that number didn't look all that great anymore.  Plus, I got hammered by my Nook readers.  They were not happy and I heard about it. 
Now if Amazon offered some sort of BookBub service to Select?  That might be a game changer. 

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Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2014, 12:04:32 PM »
I get more for borrows on my boks than for sales, so anything that encourages borrows (if it's at the same royalty as KOLL) will be a plus for me  ;D

Yeah, the royalty rate-structure will be very important. Plus, as dmac below says, "the fine print."  :)

Personally, rather than a pool to be paid from, as is currently done via Select, I'd prefer how Scribd and Oyster pay. And truthfully, several other major non-domestic players getting ready to enter the US market. That's a royalty rate based on retail price up to a set amount.

But we'll see  :)
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Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
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