Author Topic: Kindle Unlimited: the scoop threads merged... :)  (Read 142638 times)  

Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2014, 12:06:29 PM »

Now if Amazon offered some sort of BookBub service to Select?  That might be a game changer.

Oh, now you're talking!

Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2014, 12:08:08 PM »
Select is already a little short on incentive. Without the KOLL, what is there?
70% in Mexico or Japan where I never ever sell any book?

Very true! Be interesting what Amazon will (if all is true, which I think it is) offer.

I still like the idea of non-exclusive for being in the subscription program, but something for those wanting to be exclusive.

Or, based on market share anyway, and reader-buyer preference, maybe Amazon won't need or want exclusive anymore, plus having a big pot to pay from.

So many possibilities - this will have to be a movie someday, streamed on Netflix and Amazon of course  :)
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Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
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Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2014, 12:11:00 PM »
Now if Amazon offered some sort of BookBub service to Select?  That might be a game changer.

Sounds interesting, how might that work? I haven't used BookBub and am not in Select, so sorry for what might be an obvious answer, thanks Olivia.
Thrillers merge with family fiction. | The Samantha (Sam) Lacroix series.
Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
Codename:Chandler Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen Afternoon
Queen, the Serial Novel
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Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2014, 12:19:05 PM »
Regarding exclusivity, Zon benefits greatly by ruthlessly stripping their competitors of the content they need to stay in business. Unless you're Big 6(5), or a bestseller, I doubt they'll waive that. Why would they?

Offline H.M. Ward

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2014, 12:22:16 PM »
I worry about the "borrow" payout going down to something closer to $1.00. That would be bad.


That. That would be very bad. They've been hounding me to put something in Select for a while now. :/ The word from the herd is the lending pool money is going up, not down. The problem for me is that I'm getting more than $2 on most of my titles, net, without the added 10% rules. That's silly. You only get it if the reader doesn't get interrupted when they 1st open the book? I always get interrupted, especially at the start of a book.

PS, I hate Scribd. They've been one of the biggest PITAs with piracy, meaning I've sent them a bajillion take down notices and my books keep popping up over there anyway. They're still wearing eye patches imho.

PPS, Amazon- tell authors what you're doing. We're not stupid and some of us may actually support the changes if we knew what they were. My minion, dude, we just talked about this. :( I know u r gagged and it's not your fault, but OMG. For the love of Pete! Give us a little notice. As a reader, this is AWESOME. As a writer, it's scary and I hope Hugh is correct that the subscription payments will offset the increase in lends.

PPSS, 10% in 1 sitting is STUPID. What's considered 1 sitting? I'm assuming you have til the screen goes to sleep. Babies, life, phone calls - dudes, dumb rule. A guy made this rule, I bet.

Okay, I'm done. Maybe. I might come back later if another rant strikes me.
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Online Olivia Jaymes

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #130 on: July 16, 2014, 12:28:50 PM »
Adanlerma,

Amazon has all the data it needs to know how to direct your advertising to the readers most likely to buy your book.  Currently, Bookbub (for a fee) will send your book info to its subscribers - broken out by sub-genre.  They make money on affiliate fees and we make money selling a boatload of books.  Win-win. 
I've wondered why Amazon doesn't see this potential revenue stream?  Perhaps it's simply too small?  Probably.  They know who has looked at my book page, who has purchased some of my books, and who has purchased books like mine.  If they offered a service to those in Select - for a fee - that would target those readers I would be all over that.  That might be worth giving up the other avenues of revenue. 

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Offline GP Hudson

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2014, 12:36:35 PM »
I don't understand what the logic is behind the 10% in one sitting rule. If someone reads 10% of your book they read 10%, what difference does it make if it is in one sitting or five? I don't get how they came up with this?


Offline Daniel Knight

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2014, 12:37:19 PM »
PPSS, 10% in 1 sitting is STUPID. What's considered 1 sitting? I'm assuming you have til the screen goes to sleep. Babies, life, phone calls - dudes, dumb rule. A guy made this rule, I bet.

Holly, there was another quote that Stella posted (not sure of the original source) that said that the 10% could be read over many months - so it doesn't have to be in one sitting. I think maybe you were confused by what the rep said about reading the book for the first time. I think the implication wasn't that it had to be in one sitting but just that you only get paid for the the first time through the book (regardless of how many reading sessions that is).

So a person can read the first 5% in one sitting, then another 5% in another session, then the payment is triggered. Then they can continue to read through to the end of the book. If they start over and cross that 10% page count threshold again - it doesn't trigger another payment.

Offline Jim Johnson

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2014, 12:38:19 PM »
I don't understand what the logic is behind the 10% in one sitting rule. If someone reads 10% of your book they read 10%, what difference does it make if it is in one sitting or five? I don't get how they came up with this?

Doesn't sound like there is a 10% in one sitting rule.

Offline SummerNights

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2014, 12:41:10 PM »
Holly, there was another quote that Stella posted (not sure of the original source) that said that the 10% could be read over many months - so it doesn't have to be in one sitting. I think maybe you were confused by what the rep said about reading the book for the first time. I think the implication wasn't that it had to be in one sitting but just that you only get paid for the the first time through the book (regardless of how many reading sessions that is).

So a person can read the first 5% in one sitting, then another 5% in another session, then the payment is triggered. Then they can continue to read through to the end of the book. If they start over and cross that 10% page count threshold again - it doesn't trigger another payment.

Oops, here's the source: https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=AI3QMVN4FMTXJ

 :)

Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2014, 12:56:08 PM »
Adanlerma,
If they offered a service to those in Select - for a fee - that would target those readers I would be all over that.  That might be worth giving up the other avenues of revenue.

Ahh, thanks Olivia. And if Amazon were collecting a fee from authors and not paying a referral fee to an outside source like BookBub..that $ could cover a lot of stuff  :)
Thrillers merge with family fiction. | The Samantha (Sam) Lacroix series.
Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
Codename:Chandler Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen Afternoon
Queen, the Serial Novel
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Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2014, 01:01:33 PM »
Like someone else highlighted earlier, this little gem seems really bizarre:

Quote
...each time a new customer reads more than 10% of your book ...  A customer can read your book again as many times as they like, but you will only receive payment for the first 10% read.

WTH does that mean? If they can read it as often as they want it's the same as OWNING it. 
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Online Olivia Jaymes

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #137 on: July 16, 2014, 01:04:47 PM »
Technically, if I borrow a Prime book currently I can read it as many times as I like.  I just can't get a new one the next month until I return the other one.  Perhaps, the new program will work like this?  You can't get another book until you return the old one.

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Offline Jan Strnad

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #138 on: July 16, 2014, 01:08:27 PM »
It sounds as if KU and KOLL are essentially being merged, which means that they have to add to that $1.2 million pot if KU is at all successful. I wonder if they'd add the $10 monthly subscriber fees or be stingy about it.

Otherwise you'd see that royalty go down, down, down to next to nothing.

Also, as just noted above, it'll be interesting to see if people can have more than one book at a time in their KU library.

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Offline Daniel Knight

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #139 on: July 16, 2014, 01:17:07 PM »
Like someone else highlighted earlier, this little gem seems really bizarre:

WTH does that mean? If they can read it as often as they want it's the same as OWNING it.

Except, the customer would only have this feature while they maintain their subscription. I understand your perspective as an author though, since we only get paid once. But I'm guessing this is probably a low frequency use case. How often do readers read the same book again (over any short period of time)? And when they do - they don't typically have to pay for it again anyway.

I think the bigger question remains is what will that first time borrow royalty rate be.

Looking at the upside, this program could be a big boon for writers of shorter stories (like myself). With the current Lending Library I doubt many readers use their single borrow on short stories. With Kindle Unlimited they wouldn't feel this restriction. It could remove the pricing/value perception problem short story writers often face.

If the payment for Kindle Unlimited turns out to be based on sale price of the book, then you can set your price at $2.99 + and get a decent royalty, even though the reader is only paying their subscription fee. On the other hand, if it is based on a split pool like the Lending Library, then you can have the price set at $0.99 to encourage sales, but still get a higher payment through the Kindle Unlimited program for borrows.

Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #140 on: July 16, 2014, 01:19:08 PM »
Like someone else highlighted earlier, this little gem seems really bizarre:

WTH does that mean? If they can read it as often as they want it's the same as OWNING it.

Only as long as the reader is in the subscription program, more like a lease; same as Scribd.
Thrillers merge with family fiction. | The Samantha (Sam) Lacroix series.
Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
Codename:Chandler Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen Afternoon
Queen, the Serial Novel
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Online Vaalingrade

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #141 on: July 16, 2014, 01:26:43 PM »
WTH does that mean? If they can read it as often as they want it's the same as OWNING it. 


No, it's just the same as you not getting paid again and them paying forever. Zon-Zon gets their $10/month no matter what.

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Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #142 on: July 16, 2014, 01:36:26 PM »
Technically, if I borrow a Prime book currently I can read it as many times as I like.  I just can't get a new one the next month until I return the other one.  Perhaps, the new program will work like this?  You can't get another book until you return the old one.

Some services, and I may have this mix-up, like Oyster allow 10 books checked out at a time, while Scribd allows 20. If I have this wrong, someone please correct me, thanks!
Thrillers merge with family fiction. | The Samantha (Sam) Lacroix series.
Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
Codename:Chandler Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen Afternoon
Queen, the Serial Novel
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Offline Saul Tanpepper

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #143 on: July 16, 2014, 01:37:40 PM »
Yes! So many questions...
  • Does the book have to be exclusive for us regular, mortal indie types?
  • Is the payment based on list price?
  • Is there a word-count limit?
  • Will percentage-read data figure into bestseller algorithms?
  • How will KU borrows affect placement on other bestseller lists?
  • Will this change the growing reader backlash against serials?
  • What will the effect be on newbies (like me)? Is this another boom?
  • How much will we be paid?
  • When does it start?
  • Can you opt out? Can you opt IN, even if you're not in Select?

The mind reels!

And will we see a rash of short stories being published into KU and priced at $9.99 solely to reap high royalties?
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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #144 on: July 16, 2014, 01:38:01 PM »
On the other hand, if it is based on a split pool like the Lending Library, then you can have the price set at $0.99 to encourage sales, but still get a higher payment through the Kindle Unlimited program for borrows.

And this, btw, was never fair to those who do offer higher-priced books.
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Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #145 on: July 16, 2014, 01:38:18 PM »
With the current Lending Library I doubt many readers use their single borrow on short stories. With Kindle Unlimited they wouldn't feel this restriction. It could remove the pricing/value perception problem short story writers often face.

Daniel, Scribd has maintained that shorter works are growing in desirability (vs data from Smashwords that longer works are more favored - who knows exactly!), and that they would be favored by younger busier readers commuting etc.

Subscriptions actually, I believe, as per my own use as a reader in Scribd and viewer in Netflix, remove all pricing/value perception, and encourage exploration, which Amazon emphasized and has (had?) on the promo that's disappeared : Freedom to Explore.

That being the number one reason I've listed on my blog posts and comments as to why my wife and I have come to value Netflix so much, and are beginning to enjoy doing so with Scribd and Oyster - and maybe very soon, Amazon.  :)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 01:39:58 PM by adanlerma »
Thrillers merge with family fiction. | The Samantha (Sam) Lacroix series.
Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
Codename:Chandler Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen Afternoon
Queen, the Serial Novel
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Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #146 on: July 16, 2014, 01:43:15 PM »
And will we see a rash of short stories being published into KU and priced at $9.99 solely to reap high royalties?

That is *exactly* what we would see. So... I doubt it. Probably we are looking at flat rate, with secret separate negotiations for Big 6 and bestseller indies at higher price points.

Offline adanlerma

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2014, 01:50:19 PM »
Yes! So many questions...
  • Does the book have to be exclusive for us regular, mortal indie types?
  • Is the payment based on list price?
  • Is there a word-count limit?
  • Will percentage-read data figure into bestseller algorithms?
  • How will KU borrows affect placement on other bestseller lists?
  • Will this change the growing reader backlash against serials?
  • What will the effect be on newbies (like me)? Is this another boom?
  • How much will we be paid?
  • When does it start?
  • Can you opt out? Can you opt IN, even if you're not in Select?


LisaGloria, you hit it dead on -

Those are the bottomline make or break questions whose answers to we're all waiting on  :)
Thrillers merge with family fiction. | The Samantha (Sam) Lacroix series.
Short story prequel: Dirty Sixth Street, Austin | Short Novel: One Night in the Hill Country
Jack Daniels Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen-Conventional Morning
Codename:Chandler Kindle Worlds short: An Unforeseen Afternoon
Queen, the Serial Novel
Felipe Adan Lerma | Blog | YouTube | Facebook | Twitter | Google + | Audible | Amazon Author Page

Offline Saul Tanpepper

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2014, 01:53:20 PM »
That is *exactly* what we would see. So... I doubt it. Probably we are looking at flat rate, with secret separate negotiations for Big 6 and bestseller indies at higher price points.

Yes, I can see where this might force Amazon not to royalty match as if a subscribed read were a purchase. How then do they remain competitive against the other services for content when Scribd and Oyster offer 70%? The 70% royalty subscription model, which eliminates cost from the equation for subscribers and encourages authors to list at higher prices, may actually do what Amazon has supposedly been trying to discourage suppliers from doing: increase ebook prices.
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Offline Marian

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2014, 01:53:45 PM »
Adanlerma,

Amazon has all the data it needs to know how to direct your advertising to the readers most likely to buy your book.  Currently, Bookbub (for a fee) will send your book info to its subscribers - broken out by sub-genre.  They make money on affiliate fees and we make money selling a boatload of books.  Win-win. 
I've wondered why Amazon doesn't see this potential revenue stream?  Perhaps it's simply too small?  Probably.  They know who has looked at my book page, who has purchased some of my books, and who has purchased books like mine.  If they offered a service to those in Select - for a fee - that would target those readers I would be all over that.  That might be worth giving up the other avenues of revenue. 
Amazon doesn't treat all writers equally. Some authors would be allowed to advertise and others wouldn't stand a chance. I've had a nightmarish time with KDP, and I know that others have as well. We'd be left out. And if Amazon gets into advertising and hurts BookBub, the best site we have for promotion wouldn't be as effective.