Author Topic: Kindle Unlimited: the scoop threads merged... :)  (Read 140714 times)  

Offline ABBradley

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #75 on: July 16, 2014, 09:14:08 AM »
I think a reading requirement might allay a lot of fears about royalties being reduced to a slap in the face. How many people read more than 10% of a freebie? Do freebie users actually read more than 10% of each book they download in a month, or do authors tend to use freebie users who don't often finish books to juice their ranks?

I'm betting Amazon has extensive data on all of this. Hopefully, they'll have some sort of rollout explaining it to authors before it actually goes permanently live. Depending on what they say, I might actually be interested in opting into the program.

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Offline Vaalingrade

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #76 on: July 16, 2014, 09:15:32 AM »
Oh goodie. The rich, heady poison of Select rolled into the smooth, great tasting neurotoxin of subscription services.

Most of the words I have for this would be censored by the forum software.

Subscription/stream-on-demand services are bad for everyone even if the consumers don't notice it at first. Basically, it's a scheme to make sure you never own any piece of entertainment and keep paying for it over and over again forever. And also so they can pay the content creators less and less for it. Also forever.

I keep hoping that content purchasers will eventually take notice of this and revolt because the way things are structured, the creators don't have that much of a choice.

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Offline Mark E. Cooper

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #77 on: July 16, 2014, 09:15:38 AM »
Since when has lack of confirmation ever prevented a freak out on the internet? :o ;D

Hah! Its more likely due to the fact authors have no choice but to take this... at least until their 90 days are up. Its not exactly something most can urgently do anything about. The SW thing allowed them to take some sort of action.

Besides, these things usually cause a groundswell of angst that eventually subsides and we all make a few changes in our businesses and move on to the next thing. The audio book problem "may" only effect whisper sync titles. It may not as well of course, but if it does that is something fixable.

Offline Vaalingrade

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #78 on: July 16, 2014, 09:16:59 AM »
Oh and in case anyone was wondering where the reporting slowdowns of the past two weeks were coming from... TADA!

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Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #79 on: July 16, 2014, 09:22:51 AM »
I have 4 books under 3 pen names in Select. Only one of those books shows up under KU (using the search function).
No idea what that means. If it means anything.

I'll keep my doubts to myself at the moment, but it seems like this might be a terrible thing for established indies, and a FABULOUS thing for those struggling to get a foothold. New market - first mover advantage! WOO!

Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #80 on: July 16, 2014, 09:23:16 AM »
I keep hoping that content purchasers will eventually take notice of this and revolt because the way things are structured, the creators don't have that much of a choice.

Not so sure about that. There's a whole new generation of content users that view content as disposable. The cozy idea of vast shelves of much-loved books doesn't even enter into their minds.  Didn't take long for gamers to make the switch.
Libraries would be more popular if you didn't have to actually walk/bike/drive there. Well, now you don't.

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Offline Jash

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #81 on: July 16, 2014, 09:26:48 AM »
There are a huge number of authors who pay bills with their work. Like Hugh says, what'll happen when the KOLL share drops to a buck or even less?

If not When. But what percentage of your income comes from KOLL shares? For me such a drop wouldn't have much of an impact.

Offline Vaalingrade

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #82 on: July 16, 2014, 09:33:52 AM »
Not so sure about that. There's a whole new generation of content users that view content as disposable. The cozy idea of vast shelves of much-loved books doesn't even enter into their minds.  Didn't take long for gamers to make the switch.
Libraries would be more popular if you didn't have to actually walk/bike/drive there. Well, now you don't.



See, games I get. You rarely replay a game.

And it isn't about ownership (it is for me, but not for them) so much as being suckered into paying for the same thing over and over again. I had a rule back in the day of rental stores: if I was going to rent a movie three times for a totally of $6, I'd just pay the $10 and buy the damn thing because otherwise, I was being a chump.

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Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #83 on: July 16, 2014, 09:34:05 AM »
If not When. But what percentage of your income comes from KOLL shares? For me such a drop wouldn't have much of an impact.

It would if readers quit buying books and start renting them in unlimited quantities.
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Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #84 on: July 16, 2014, 09:35:03 AM »
If not When. But what percentage of your income comes from KOLL shares? For me such a drop wouldn't have much of an impact.

I don't see the logic behind this happening any time soon. Zon has to get big names and publishers in there, or it will flop. Big names won't go for 12 cent royalties without a guarantee. At the outset, it will have to be something comparable to what it is now - or possibly even better?

Historically, Zon has been willing to defer profitability in order to acquire market dominance. Why wouldn't they do that here?

Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2014, 09:35:47 AM »
See, games I get. You rarely replay a game.

Say that to the suckers who keep paying to get another level or two for Candy Crush  ;D ;D ;D

I'll be over there:
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Offline Edward M. Grant

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2014, 09:38:54 AM »
If not When. But what percentage of your income comes from KOLL shares? For me such a drop wouldn't have much of an impact.

It will, if anyone can borrow your books an infinite number of times for $9.99 a month.  Clearly this is Amazon's response to Scribd, but Scribd's business model never made sense to me; I don't see how they can pay me $2.99 every time someone reads one of my novelettes, but only charge $8.99 a month.

My guess is, it will flop because no trade publisher will want to put new books in there, though perhaps they'll be happy to release backlist books that way.

Offline Colin

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2014, 09:42:57 AM »
It will, if anyone can borrow your books an infinite number of times for $9.99 a month.  Clearly this is Amazon's response to Scribd, but Scribd's business model never made sense to me; I don't see how they can pay me $2.99 every time someone reads one of my novelettes, but only charge $8.99 a month.

Quoting myself - sorry.
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Scribd will make their profits from those who don't read so fast. Or adjust the subscription/reduce the royalty if they get too many wild word munchers!


Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #88 on: July 16, 2014, 09:44:34 AM »
Oh and in case anyone was wondering where the reporting slowdowns of the past two weeks were coming from... TADA!

Heh, yeah. My dashboard graph, the report generated from that page and the actual Month To Date all have different opinions about what I've sold today.
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Online Atunah

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2014, 09:46:43 AM »
I have been renting, not owning content since the days of VHS, Beta and Video 2000. Yes, we actually had 3 formats to deal with in those early days. So not owning content is not anything new. We also paid a small fee for library books then.
I was one of the first to jump on Netflix when it was available so as not to have to drive to the video stores anymore.

I pay out of state libraries to loan digital books. I don't own those either. We had for a while a Sirius subscription, so didn't own that music either.
None of this is new. Books are entertainment. If I owned every book I have ever read or want to read, I'd need to win the lottery and buy a house. Doesn't mean I never owned VHS tapes, cassette tapes, books, etc. I just don't need to own everything I consume. I buy what I want to rewatch again and again, same with books.

I don't re-read most fiction books I read. Otherwise I'd never get through my TBR.  ;D

People didn't stop buying DVD's because of Netflix. People didn't stop buying books because of libraries, loaning, paperbackswap etc. People didn't stop buying music because of music services.

I haven't stopped buying books because of Scribd. If anything, it makes me read authors and books that I had on lists like "wait for loan". Now I pay to read those with my subscription fees.

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Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2014, 09:47:32 AM »
It will, if anyone can borrow your books an infinite number of times for $9.99 a month.  Clearly this is Amazon's response to Scribd, but Scribd's business model never made sense to me; I don't see how they can pay me $2.99 every time someone reads one of my novelettes, but only charge $8.99 a month.

My guess is, it will flop because no trade publisher will want to put new books in there, though perhaps they'll be happy to release backlist books that way.

The reason Scribd can do that is a) their distribution costs are ridiculously low and b) all subscription models are based on a high rate of "breakage" where people just don't use the service to its optimum level. There really aren't all that many people devouring 2 books a day, for months on end. Breakage for things like product rebates can be upwards of 65%, which is why any company would bother. I wonder what Zon's percentage will be.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 09:51:38 AM by LisaGloria »

Offline Vaalingrade

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2014, 09:47:45 AM »
Say that to the suckers who keep paying to get another level or two for Candy Crush  ;D ;D ;D

I'll be over there:


'Games', I said, not digital meth.  :p

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Offline Vaalingrade

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2014, 09:52:08 AM »
People didn't stop buying DVD's because of Netflix. People didn't stop buying books because of libraries, loaning, paperbackswap etc. People didn't stop buying music because of music services.

I haven't stopped buying books because of Scribd. If anything, it makes me read authors and books that I had on lists like "wait for loan". Now I pay to read those with my subscription fees.

Here's the thing though. In a few years, you're not going to have a choice. Subscription services are essentially money for nothing continually while actual ownership is a one time transaction. Businesses have vanishingly little reason to actually let you keep stuff anymore.

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Offline Edward M. Grant

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2014, 09:53:38 AM »
There really aren't all that many people devouring 2 books a day, for months on end. Breakage for things like product rebates can be upwards of 65%.

We're not talking about 2 books a day. If someone reads one book a week, and Scribd pays me $2.99 each time, they're making a significant loss on that reader.

In the long run, either they'll have to increase fees, or reduce royalties, or go bust.

(Unless I'm mistaken about the royalties, so far I've only seen partial reads, which seem to pay cover price * percentage read).

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2014, 09:58:08 AM »
Here's the thing though. In a few years, you're not going to have a choice. Subscription services are essentially money for nothing continually while actual ownership is a one time transaction. Businesses have vanishingly little reason to actually let you keep stuff anymore.
Nah, not buying that. No pun intended.  :P.

Businesses want you to do both, rent and own. Just like always. Humans like to own things. I think we are horders at heart.  ;D

And like I said, I don't need to own or want to own every entertainment I consume. I always consume more than I own. That is the advantage of it.

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Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2014, 10:00:54 AM »
It looks like they've pulled the page, but now we know it's coming. Wow. Times, they certainly are a changin', and fast.  :o

I can't find it anywhere either  :(

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Offline Bards and Sages (Julie)

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2014, 10:02:49 AM »
(Unless I'm mistaken about the royalties, so far I've only seen partial reads, which seem to pay cover price * percentage read).

You don't get paid cover price. You get paid your normal royalty. So if the royalty is 60%, you would get $1.79 on a $2.99 book. And then only if it is an actual 10% read. And from previous threads, Scribd seems to very strictly enforcing the 10% so no encouraging people to download and just "click" through the pages until you reach 10%. There is some sort of algorithm at work to confirm reads.

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Offline Quiss

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2014, 10:09:56 AM »
You don't get paid cover price. You get paid your normal royalty. So if the royalty is 60%, you would get $1.79 on a $2.99 book. And then only if it is an actual 10% read. And from previous threads, Scribd seems to very strictly enforcing the 10% so no encouraging people to download and just "click" through the pages until you reach 10%. There is some sort of algorithm at work to confirm reads.

Heh, I can't even convince my readers to leave a review, never mind click through a book they're not going to read.
Can't people just borrow a book and then download it to their computer? Not sure how the borrow-thing works.
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Online Usedtoposthere

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2014, 10:13:09 AM »
I think it's easy to freak about about changes, but the fact as, as I think Joe Nobody said just yesterday, everything changes so fast in the ebook world. And as I've said myself in the past, the advantage we have as indies is that we can turn on a dime and change along with it. We're sleek little motor launches. The big ships are making their wide, sweeping turns that take them months or years, and--boop!--we've already pulled a 180 and are headed in a new direction!

I'm just going to wait and see, figure out what my own best move will be given what happens, and make that move. And keep working on the new book! That's all of our best hedge, I think--new content. Which is another thing we can do much faster. Go, us.

/cheerleading

Offline wtvr

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Re: Kindle Unlimited?? Anyone have the scoop?
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2014, 10:14:25 AM »
^^ That! yes!

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