Need a new Case? Save $30 with code SPARKLE30 + Free Shipping at Case-Mate.com! Offer ends 12/15.

Author Topic: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards  (Read 17210 times)  

Offline KBoards Admin

  • Administrator
  • Status: Harvey Chute
  • *****
  • Posts: 12417
  • Gender: Male
  • Bellingham WA
  • Love all, moderate all.
    • View Profile
    • KBoards
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 10:52:19 AM »
Harvey,

This affects me too. I have recently put out five books of erotic romance under a pen name, and was almost ready to pull the trigger and share the covers with my friends here (a fully-clothed woman). But I can't now, because even though the covers are fine, it is listed under erotica categories at Amazon.

Does that bother me? Yep. Hoped to get a few sales thru my sig... And I'm proud of the story too. But I'm more concerned with the stress this is having on you and your health. You've stuck with us and kept this board going even through your cancer treatments and life and death situations, without so much as a peep about your own struggles. Your perseverance to continually try to find ways to make this community stay strong, even while sick, tired and fighting for your life is beyond commendable; and above reproach, IMHO.

Hugs to you, and thank you for your humble management of this board. I know it must be akin to herding cats.

Your post is a kindness to me and I thank you for it. I do know it affects authors, and was a bit surprised when we couldn't include links to erotic books even if the covers themselves are not erotic.

Thank you for understanding. We really have tried to take the various effects into account, and put in place something fair and workable for most.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 11:02:58 AM by Betsy the Quilter »
Flint and Flame: 15%


Authors: set up your own work-in-progress bar with our Author Sig tool.


Okey Dokey

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 11:01:46 AM »
Harvey

Are you now saying that only a link to Amazon is not allowed for a book in the Amazon dungeon?
But a link to a writer's blog would be OK?
And the writer's blog could link to Amazon?

If a book is sent to the Amazon dungeon on the weekend by a reviewer in another country, but later the writer can get Amazon to take it out of the dungeon, what happens here?
Wouldn't going back and forth on the issue only create more work for you?

Online Monique

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 11209
  • Gender: Female
  • California
    • View Profile
    • Written by Monique
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 11:03:48 AM »
"erotic kooks"

Hee.

I know this has been an agonizing decision for you, but I think you've made the best choice you could given the circumestances.



I corrected Harvey's typo... :D--Betsy

Argh... I assure you that was *not* a Freudian slip.  :(   Thanks for the catch! --Harvey
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 11:17:11 AM by Harvey »

Monique Martin | author website | facebook | twitter

Offline PhoenixS

  • Status: A A Milne
  • ******
  • Posts: 4085
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 11:04:55 AM »
Oh my gosh

Well at least you have designated Amazon as the authority on erotica.
Although I'm not sure if a lawyer would cite Amazon as an authority in a censorship court suit. But, maybe Amazon could cite it's special training in "I know it when I see it."

But you said Amazon would have the final word. At least you didn't designate the ACLU or a congressman.

Who would you designate the arbiter to decide what Google Ads considers inappropriate? Bearing in mind that authority would also need to be liable for any financial hit to KBoards should Google pull their ads.

I'm serious. If neither Harvey and the Mods nor Amazon are appropriate authorities, who are? Google? Should authors be required to pass their covers and content by Google first to ensure the material is appropriate by Google standards? Who would you designate and what financial guarantees would you implement in the event Google disagrees with that person or entity and institutes sanctions on the site?

Offline KBoards Admin

  • Administrator
  • Status: Harvey Chute
  • *****
  • Posts: 12417
  • Gender: Male
  • Bellingham WA
  • Love all, moderate all.
    • View Profile
    • KBoards
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 11:07:17 AM »
Harvey

Are you now saying that only a link to Amazon is not allowed for a book in the Amazon dungeon?
But a link to a writer's blog would be OK?
And the writer's blog could link to Amazon?

If a book is sent to the Amazon dungeon on the weekend by a reviewer in another country, but later the writer can get Amazon to take it out of the dungeon, what happens here?
Wouldn't going back and forth on the issue only create more work for you?

Thank you for the question. The link on KB cannot go to "erotic content" -- whether that's on Amazon or elsewhere. You probably have a sense of whether your own blog or other URL destination would be regarded as such.

I don't really know whether Amazon regularly moves books in and out of its erotica category. If your book is one that gets moved in and out, then probably safest to not have a link to Amazon for that book.
Flint and Flame: 15%


Authors: set up your own work-in-progress bar with our Author Sig tool.


Okey Dokey

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2014, 11:17:33 AM »
Harvey

Thanks for the clarification

Best wishes

Offline telracs

  • Status: Agatha Christie
  • *********
  • Posts: 19439
  • Gender: Female
  • NYC
  • peace, love, justice.... and chocolate.
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 11:22:23 AM »
Harvey (et al), does this affect anything with an erotica keyword or just stuff that is in the "adult dungeon"?

Offline Betsy the Quilter

  • To paraphrase Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: "I'm a goddess; not THE Goddess. I don't think."
  • Administrator
  • Status: Shakespeare
  • *****
  • Posts: 62971
  • Gender: Female
  • Alexandria, VA
  • Love all, moderate all, to quote my friend Harvey
    • View Profile
    • Betsy True Designs
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 11:24:12 AM »
I'm not sure I really understand what the "dungeon" is...though I've seen the term here.  Is everything that Amazon has in the "erotica" category in the dungeon?

Betsy
Goodreads Goal -- 75 books


Joined 10/27/2008  | Miss you, Harvey, Jeff & Dona!
Harvey Chute (1962-2015), KB Founder

Proud Owner: Oasis/Voyage/Touch/Basic/K1/Fire HDX
Betsy True Designs Facebook | My Store

Offline KBoards Admin

  • Administrator
  • Status: Harvey Chute
  • *****
  • Posts: 12417
  • Gender: Male
  • Bellingham WA
  • Love all, moderate all.
    • View Profile
    • KBoards
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2014, 11:25:12 AM »
Harvey (et al), does this affect anything with an erotica keyword or just stuff that is in the "adult dungeon"?

I don't know this, but I would guess that books that have a lot of erotica keywords are likely to end up in the erotica category sooner or later. However, we are not going to try to keep track of content that might have erotica metadata like keywords associated with it.

If the book is in the Amazon "erotica" category, then it cannot be linked to from KB.

Flint and Flame: 15%


Authors: set up your own work-in-progress bar with our Author Sig tool.


Offline Silly Writer

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2115
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2014, 11:25:55 AM »
"erotic kooks"

Hee.

I know this has been an agonizing decision for you, but I think you've made the best choice you could given the circumestances.



I corrected Harvey's typo... :D--Betsy

Argh... I assure you that was *not* a Freudian slip.  :(   Thanks for the catch! --Harvey

I saw it right away and laughed. I figured Betsy would swoop in and get it  :P

Online KelliWolfe

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2034
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2014, 11:27:44 AM »
I do not envy you the unending battle of trying to define what constitutes "erotic content."

Olivia Blake | Lessons in Love

Online Monique

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 11209
  • Gender: Female
  • California
    • View Profile
    • Written by Monique
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2014, 11:28:03 AM »
Amazon is somewhat capricious in what they put in the dungeon. Somethings that are pretty far out there are not tagged and some rather mild things are. It's an additional (and invisible) adult tag that keeps books from being displayed in general search. They do display in a books search. Not all erotica, or even most?, is in the "dungeon."

Monique Martin | author website | facebook | twitter

Offline Silly Writer

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2115
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2014, 11:28:42 AM »
I'm not sure I really understand what the "dungeon" is...though I've seen the term here.  Is everything that Amazon has in the "erotica" category in the dungeon?

Betsy

Can check a book on www.bookrankexpress.com. If it's in the dungeon, it'll have a red "Adult" label next to it. This means Amazon feels it's a little too 'erotic' and hides it from General searches. It can only be found by typing the title, thus blocking a lot of sales from readers stumbling over it.

ETA: crossed posts with Monique. Mine were accidentky put in dungeon. They're very vanilla. I couldn't find them in general searches which is why I finally looked in the dungeon. They're out now, with apologies from Amazon.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 11:31:30 AM by L.L. Akers »

Offline telracs

  • Status: Agatha Christie
  • *********
  • Posts: 19439
  • Gender: Female
  • NYC
  • peace, love, justice.... and chocolate.
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2014, 11:29:45 AM »
I'm not sure I really understand what the "dungeon" is...though I've seen the term here.  Is everything that Amazon has in the "erotica" category in the dungeon?

Betsy

as i understand it, no, not everything erotica is in the dungeon. 

also, we keep using the term erotica, but how does this effect erotic romance titles?

lastly, since you are asking people to edit reading bars, don't you think this needs to be posted in the Book Corner or someplace else since not everyone reads the forum decorum or WC posts.

Offline Betsy the Quilter

  • To paraphrase Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: "I'm a goddess; not THE Goddess. I don't think."
  • Administrator
  • Status: Shakespeare
  • *****
  • Posts: 62971
  • Gender: Female
  • Alexandria, VA
  • Love all, moderate all, to quote my friend Harvey
    • View Profile
    • Betsy True Designs
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2014, 11:31:12 AM »
LL,

the link doesn't work?  (Not to derail the thread.)

Betsy
Goodreads Goal -- 75 books


Joined 10/27/2008  | Miss you, Harvey, Jeff & Dona!
Harvey Chute (1962-2015), KB Founder

Proud Owner: Oasis/Voyage/Touch/Basic/K1/Fire HDX
Betsy True Designs Facebook | My Store

Offline Shelley K

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1834
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2014, 11:32:36 AM »
I'm not sure I really understand what the "dungeon" is...though I've seen the term here.  Is everything that Amazon has in the "erotica" category in the dungeon?

Betsy

No, it's a special classification given to books that Amazon wants to hide from its general search, and it being brought up here only serves to confuse the issue. For the purposes of deciding what can and cannot be linked from kboards, it has no bearing on the conversation.

(The link is salesrankexpress.com, not bookrankexpress.)

Offline Silly Writer

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2115
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2014, 11:33:44 AM »
LL,

the link doesn't work?  (Not to derail the thread.)

Betsy

Oops. My bad. It's www.salesrankexpress.com

Offline Betsy the Quilter

  • To paraphrase Bill Murray in Groundhog Day: "I'm a goddess; not THE Goddess. I don't think."
  • Administrator
  • Status: Shakespeare
  • *****
  • Posts: 62971
  • Gender: Female
  • Alexandria, VA
  • Love all, moderate all, to quote my friend Harvey
    • View Profile
    • Betsy True Designs
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2014, 11:34:23 AM »
Thanks, Monique, LL, telracs and shelley--I understand the term dungeon much more clearly now after having read about it for quite a while here on the boards.

Betsy
Goodreads Goal -- 75 books


Joined 10/27/2008  | Miss you, Harvey, Jeff & Dona!
Harvey Chute (1962-2015), KB Founder

Proud Owner: Oasis/Voyage/Touch/Basic/K1/Fire HDX
Betsy True Designs Facebook | My Store

Offline KBoards Admin

  • Administrator
  • Status: Harvey Chute
  • *****
  • Posts: 12417
  • Gender: Male
  • Bellingham WA
  • Love all, moderate all.
    • View Profile
    • KBoards
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2014, 11:46:42 AM »
as i understand it, no, not everything erotica is in the dungeon. 

also, we keep using the term erotica, but how does this effect erotic romance titles?

lastly, since you are asking people to edit reading bars, don't you think this needs to be posted in the Book Corner or someplace else since not everyone reads the forum decorum or WC posts.

Thanks, the "dungeon" is something different, apparently, and might contain erotica, pornography, or sometimes things mislabeled by Amazon. Our policy does not use that term.

If a book falls into an "erotica" category on Amazon, then the Forum Decorum will apply.

To ensure readers see this, we'll add a link to this thread from LTK in addition to the existing link in Forum Decorum.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 11:48:49 AM by Harvey »
Flint and Flame: 15%


Authors: set up your own work-in-progress bar with our Author Sig tool.


Okey Dokey

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2014, 11:49:10 AM »
So, just putting a book in Amazon's erotica category, to help readers looking for erotica, would ban it from a link here

Offline a_g

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 592
  • The South
  • in the dark
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2014, 12:14:28 PM »
So, just putting a book in Amazon's erotica category, to help readers looking for erotica, would ban it from a link here

I believe that's the case, yes.

But telracs does bring up a good question about how it affects linking to erotic romance. There is an erotic subcategory under the  romance category. Would that put it in the erotic umbrella for the forum decorum rules?
Urban Fantasy numbah one: 10%

Online KelliWolfe

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2034
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2014, 12:19:38 PM »
I believe that's the case, yes.

But telracs does bring up a good question about how it affects linking to erotic romance. There is an erotic subcategory under the  romance category. Would that put it in the erotic umbrella for the forum decorum rules?
And what about all the erotica that has been categorized under contemporary and paranormal romance, women's fiction, etc.?  This is going to be epic.

Olivia Blake | Lessons in Love

Okey Dokey

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2014, 12:20:19 PM »
a_g

That's what I was asking.

Another question
Can there be a link to erotica cover providers

Offline she-la-ti-da

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 5984
  • in the bunker
    • View Profile
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2014, 12:21:04 PM »
I don't envy you the trouble you've had getting the situation resolved to Google's satisfaction, Harvey. I suspect this thread is going to go mega, like the other one. :O

I hope your health improves. I'd missed seeing anything about that, and it was a shock when I read it in the other thread.
Queen of Procrasti Nation

Genres: speculative fiction under main pen name.




Okey Dokey

  • Guest
Re: Forum Decorum: Rules about content displayed on KBoards
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2014, 12:24:24 PM »
Quote:

"...resolved to Google's satisfaction..."

Now I'm confused.
Is this something coming from Google?