Need Perfect Gift? Shop Amazon Gift Cards. Any Occasion.

Author Topic: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords  (Read 102618 times)  

Offline Evenstar

  • Moderator
  • Status: A A Milne
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • UK
  • YA and PNR
    • View Profile
    • Author Website
Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« on: January 02, 2015, 06:57:51 AM »
Edited to add a summary at the bottom!

I have decided to write a dedicated thread to Keywords (just on Amazon in this post) because I am seeing this coming up so often and being answered again and again but maybe not fully enough to allay all questions.  I would like to say that this is not set in stone and I don't have any data to back it up except for reading posts that other people have made on the subject and from my own personal experience of frequently playing with keywords to get it right.

While I think that covers and blurbs generate sales, your keywords generate people looking at the book in the first place.

Firstly I would say that one word keywords are essentially useless. If LOVE is one of my keywords, then they are too broad to get much return. If I type LOVE into Amazon search will my romance novel appear on the first page? Will it even appear on the first 100 pages? No. It will get me nowhere at all! Using such generic terms will not help people find your book.

I used to have: Teen Romance, young adult love, high school boys, stuff like that. But even though all those terms are relevant to me, they also got lost in the "noise" of all the other authors with the same thing.  You need to rise above the noise, but still put in keywords that people might use to search.

The key is to find keywords that are popular but not too popular. But remember, it isn't how many people search for those keywords, it is how many hits those keywords produce. If it is millions then your books will be lost. But you want to find the keywords that millions of people are searching for and yet are not being over-used.

I absolutely know that sounds difficult but it isn't. What I mean is - if you search for Love in books you will get millions of hits, but if you search for Werewolf Love, you will get a much more specific list of products, if you narrow it again and search for Werewolf and Mermaid Love, then you should get quite a small list of hits as I can't imagine there are millions of books in that niche (if any!). So you would, in an ideal world, basically want something between search two and search three. See how I'm trying to narrow down a search to something that is a popular search but does not create a huge list of relevant products? You want your product to be the one that comes up at least on the first page of products that are relevant to the search.

For my book Halloween Magic & Mayhem, I have used Paranormal Romance, but then specified further using: Paranormal Romance Witch Werewolf, so if people want a book that covers witches and werewolves in love then I'm up there. Then I cheated and put: paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love. I basically used what we call on here "keyword stuffing" to cover my bases. The romance is between a witch and a werewolf but there are zombies and ghosts in the story and the werewolf is a shifter. So I show up even if they are searching for a slightly different term. If they are searching for a zombie romance I show up. They will quickly see that I am not a zombie romance, but they might be intrigued anyway as the book is a romance and there are zombies in it. Do you see what I am doing? I use repetition to ensure that I get close to the exact search term they might put in AND I keyword stuff to make sure that I at least have a combination of the words they put in.

People usually search for terms not for one word, so put terms in. If your book is about a human and an alien falling in love then try something like: Paranormal love story book, alien romance sci-fi love, paranormal science fiction romance, fantasy ebook alien romantic fiction, non-human romance relationship alien lover.  See how I am using lots of different search terms for basically the same words? That's because you want to capture that market, you want to appear when people specify what they are looking for.

If you were searching for a book like yours what would you type into Amazon? Now try it and see how many results you get. You don't want to pick words on their own in a saturated genre (like love and romance or science fiction) because you will never show up, but equally you don't want to waste time with keywords that no-one is searching for. So it is a balancing act.

You need to take ten minutes and do some searches, you want to find terms that produce under 10,000 hits but more than just a few hundred. You need to decide what this figure should be, based on how niche your genre is.

Now, you don't need to have the exact phrases that people are searching for, as keywords work together, and you get seven of them. But you do want to have ALL the necessary keywords if at all possible. The whole point of keyword stuffing is so that whatever phrase they type in, as long as you have the relevant keywords, then you should show up. The more spot on you are with what people search for, the more likely you will come up on that first page of results. So no, it doesn't need to be the exact wording, but I do think it helps! Basically, I think that you want to have the exact words but in any old order in your keywords. So make sure all relevant words are in there and get stuffing!

They also serve one more purpose, which is to get you in the right "categories". So when you are done with keywords relevant to search terms, then you should also have a quick think about keywords that are category specific.  For example, if you want to appear in the category "Short Stories>Alien Landings>England" then you want to put that phrase in as a keyword. The best way to locate these is to do a search for a popular book that is similar to yours and see what categories they have gotten into. You will be surprised by some of the categories but a lot of people search that way, so it is a good idea to pay attention.
Amazon will actually help you with this. There are pages in their help with guides, for example I might use this one:
https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A1XEN0SRCO1KPB
I can not recommend strongly enough that you at least go and have a look at some of the search terms that they suggest for your own category!

Okay, now I'm going to drill it down even further. Those of you that are already running for the hills - stop at this point and just do the bits above. Because those are the basics of how keywords seem to work on Amazon.

Now If you have more than one book in a series, you can use tighter more specific keywords for your second book (which will of course lead people back to your first book). For your second book you can use some more unusual terms, and find smaller categories. You want words that people search for that are relevant to your book, but perhaps are not so popular.
For instance, going back to my Magic & Mayhem series, I will stuff book one with all the more common terms about witches and love, and use phrases like Coming of Age first kiss love teen romance, stuff like that. But I will stuff Book Two with keywords I couldnt fit in for book one that are more specific, like: Magic witches witchcraft Wicca pagan worship ceremony nature-worship moon goddess sorcery wizards wand occult (all those are just one keyword). This is to direct the more niche market to my books and also to get me into some of the very small categories that I might even hit a number one spot in, which is fantastic because it really increases visibility for the whole series.

Phew, thanks for following so far and I hope some of this helps. I'm sorry it has turned into such a monster post!
Please, if anyone has anything to add, then I'm still keen to drill down even more! But as far as I know, that is how Amazon keywords work.
Do you see how vitally important they can be? They shouldn't be generic and ignored! They work on a lot of levels for you. I only learned this very recently so I'm still updating a lot of my books, and playing with combinations, and doing new searches I think of or discovering new categories I want to be in,  but I see an instant upswing when I get it right :-)


I've decided to add a summary of the above because a) this thread is really long and some of the latest information is buried in it, and b) because I'm still getting loads of PM's asking me to check keywords and a lot of people have still missed some of the crucial points.

So, to summarise:

- Do NOT use one-word keywords, it will be a waste.
- Avoid really generic terms, they will get lost way down the listings.
- You don't just get seven keywords. You get 400 characters (including spaces) and you can create up to seven "keyword strings" using those characters.
- Start by trying to hit extra categories. Find the ones you want to be in from other books in your genre and add those categories to your keywords
- Do keywords searches on Amazon looking for phrases relevant to your book that get a lot of results but not a ridiculous amount, so you will show up on at least the first couple of pages.
- The jury is still out on whether you even need commas or if you can just have one long string of keywords. Personally I like commas.
- Does repeating certain words in different strings help? I don't know, the majority seem to think it is a waste of words and you should only use each one once in the entire keyword section. That is probably true and so I recommend using variations instead, e.g. Romantic and Romance
- Later books in the series can get really specific on keywords and hit very niche categories, which all helps, so use variety for a series rather than sticking to the same
- If you aren't showing up in at least five categories then change them, and the same if you are not showing up on page one when you search for terms you have deliberately used
- And keep checking searches for yourself and keep experimenting! But don't forget that Amazon remembers what you've looked for before and that will skew the data...
- oh, and good luck  ::)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 02:24:45 PM by Evenstar »

Offline m.a. petterson

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 509
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2015, 07:15:12 AM »
Very nice. Thank you for sharing.


m.a. petterson | website

Offline Moist_Tissue

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2015, 07:19:10 AM »
The keyword stuffing is something that I would like more information on. Using as an example, I have a book with two ghosts falling in love. I did one Amazon search and found "Ghosts in love" as a search with less than 10,000 hits. Would I leave "Ghosts in love" as a separate and distinct keyword or would I add more words to it so that it becomes "Historical Southern Gothic Ghosts in Love"?
The Molly Malones: 100%

Siuil a Run: 100%

To The Valley's Edge: 0%
Siobhn Babhar

Offline Donna White Glaser

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1568
  • Gender: Female
  • The final mystery is oneself. -Oscar Wilde
    • View Profile
    • Donna White Glaser
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2015, 07:21:35 AM »
Very nice, Evenstar!   I like the tip about narrowing down to more specificity in series books.
  Suspense with a Dash of Humor

Offline jakedfw

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 07:27:04 AM »
I need to do more research, because my key question is this: Are searches based on your keywords exact matches, full word matches, or just any of the words in the list needed to match.

For example, if the keyword is "werewolves love," what happens if I search for

werewolves

or

love werewolves

or

werewolves shapeshifter love

If keywords are exact match, none of these would trigger your book. If they are all word match, the second and third would trigger your book, but not the first.  If they are just single word searches, all three would trigger your book.

My fear is that keywords are exact match. So that if you put "werewolves in love" as your keyword, you'll only get results if the person types exactly "werewolves in love" in some part of the search.

Offline Evenstar

  • Moderator
  • Status: A A Milne
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • UK
  • YA and PNR
    • View Profile
    • Author Website
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 07:30:40 AM »
The keyword stuffing is something that I would like more information on. Using as an example, I have a book with two ghosts falling in love. I did one Amazon search and found "Ghosts in love" as a search with less than 10,000 hits. Would I leave "Ghosts in love" as a separate and distinct keyword or would I add more words to it so that it becomes "Historical Southern Gothic Ghosts in Love"?

Add in more! Just keep the phrase in there.

Offline Evenstar

  • Moderator
  • Status: A A Milne
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • UK
  • YA and PNR
    • View Profile
    • Author Website
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2015, 07:33:12 AM »
I need to do more research, because my key question is this: Are searches based on your keywords exact matches, full word matches, or just any of the words in the list needed to match.

For example, if the keyword is "werewolves love," what happens if I search for

werewolves

or

love werewolves

or

werewolves shapeshifter love

If keywords are exact match, none of these would trigger your book. If they are all word match, the second and third would trigger your book, but not the first.  If they are just single word searches, all three would trigger your book.

My fear is that keywords are exact match. So that if you put "werewolves in love" as your keyword, you'll only get results if the person types exactly "werewolves in love" in some part of the search.

No, not exact matches, you should be good with the combinations, but I secretly suspect that the closer you get to the exact match the closer to the top you appear. It's a juggling act. Which is why I use repetition as well, use really popular words and phrases again and again mixed up with other terms that way you have the most chance of hitting the exact search typed in, but even if you don't you should still be close.

Offline cblewgolf

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
  • New Jersey
    • View Profile
    • Deep Rough
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2015, 08:10:28 AM »
Great post and something to think about.  I've read about the importance of keywords here but didn't really know what to do.  I use "suspense, thriller, conspiracy theory" but I guess that would result in hundreds of thousands of results.

Offline Evenstar

  • Moderator
  • Status: A A Milne
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • UK
  • YA and PNR
    • View Profile
    • Author Website
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2015, 10:02:30 AM »
Great post and something to think about.  I've read about the importance of keywords here but didn't really know what to do.  I use "suspense, thriller, conspiracy theory" but I guess that would result in hundreds of thousands of results.

If you are using them as three separate keywords then I would call it a waste of keyword space. But stuff them all together as just one keyword string and you are on the right track.

Offline Randall Wood

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 769
  • Gender: Male
  • Florida Gulf Coast
  • Are we there yet?
    • View Profile
    • RandallWoodAuthor
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2015, 10:12:06 AM »
This is simply awesome.


Does this smell like Chloroform to you?
Randall Wood | Randall Wood | Facebook | Goodreads

Offline ElenaLinville

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 175
  • Gender: Female
  • North Carolina
    • View Profile
    • Tower of Winds
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2015, 10:32:48 AM »
Oh, very useful post! Thank you so much for taking the time to write it. Bookmarked for future reference.

 
Elena Linville | Elena Linville's Tower of Winds

Offline Becca Mills

  • Moderator
  • Status: Emily Dickinson
  • *****
  • Posts: 8463
  • Gender: Female
  • California
    • View Profile
    • The Active Voice
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2015, 10:46:48 AM »
Do we know exactly how Amazon treat keyword strings, Evenstar? Your advice seems to assume that Amazon treats paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love as ("paranormal romance" or love) and (witch or werewolf or zombies or ghost or shifter). But if they treat the string as "paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love," then someone would have to search on exactly that string for your book to come up.

Offline Evenstar

  • Moderator
  • Status: A A Milne
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
  • UK
  • YA and PNR
    • View Profile
    • Author Website
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2015, 10:50:58 AM »
Do we know exactly how Amazon treat keyword strings, Evenstar? Your advice seems to assume that Amazon treats paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love as ("paranormal romance" or love) and (witch or werewolf or zombies or ghost or shifter). But if they treat the string as "paranormal romance witch werewolf zombies ghost shifter love," then someone would have to search on exactly that string for your book to come up.

As far as I can tell - if someone puts in witch and ghost love then my long keyword string should bing on the Amazon radar. Simply because those words are there even though not as that exact phrase, the rest of the keywords are then simply useless extras

Offline DawnLee

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Gender: Female
  • Tennessee
    • View Profile
    • Dawn Lee McKenna
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2015, 10:56:06 AM »
Thank you so much for this! This is something I am learning more about daily and I need to do some more tweaking. :)

Dawn Lee McKenna | Website | Twitter

Offline Kylo Ren

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2015, 10:57:50 AM »

People usually search for terms not for one word, so put terms in. If your book is about a human and an alien falling in love then try something like: Paranormal love story book, alien romance sci-fi love, paranormal science fiction romance, fantasy ebook alien romantic fiction, non-human romance relationship alien lover.  See how I am using lots of different search terms for basically the same words? That's because you want to capture that market, you want to appear when people specify what they are looking for.


In the above example, you use paranormal, love, romance more than once. I was under the impression that once you use a word, you don't need to use it again, that when someone searches for a term, Amazon will pull from any of the words you've put in your keywords. This seems to be the case whenever I've done test searches using a combination of words that aren't necessarily in the same keyword group. Anyone else have an insight on this?

Offline jakedfw

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 554
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2015, 10:58:12 AM »
This makes me scratch my head, not because you are wrong Evenstar, but because it effectively means that there is no real keyword limit, despite what Amazon says about it being limited to 7.

In other words, is this a bug that Amazon will fix someday?

Offline The 13th Doctor

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1240
  • Gender: Female
  • Here
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2015, 11:00:09 AM »
As far as I can tell - if someone puts in witch and ghost love then my long keyword string should bing on the Amazon radar. Simply because those words are there even though not as that exact phrase, the rest of the keywords are then simply useless extras

I typed in "Paranormal romance witch ghost zombie" and your book (Halloween Magic and Mayhem) was the first to appear on the page.

Great post, Evenstar. Previously, I've been putting in the one-word keywords but now I'm doing as you suggest and seeing what is popular but not too popular.

For instance, for my "Neighbourhood Witch" book, I tried typing in Paranormal Romance Cursed Witch into Amazon.com/Kindle Store and only 36 results show up. Is this too few?

Offline Kylo Ren

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2015, 11:05:27 AM »
This makes me scratch my head, not because you are wrong Evenstar, but because it effectively means that there is no real keyword limit, despite what Amazon says about it being limited to 7.

In other words, is this a bug that Amazon will fix someday?

I don't think so. Just think of it as seven word sets, rather than keywords.

Online Lucian

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
  • Gender: Male
  • Incognito
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 11:06:47 AM »
I had no idea how much I needed to read this post until I read it.

Thank you very much, Evenstar.
I believe, sometimes, very powerful people do bad things in secret. I also believe good people try to stop them. My novels are about these battles.
Lucian | twitter

Offline Claire Frank

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 363
    • View Profile
    • Website
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2015, 11:15:31 AM »
Lots of food for thought here - thanks for taking the time to post this, Evenstar!

My question is this: when it comes to using keywords to getting into categories, do you think you can use keyword stuffing AND still get into the right (smaller) categories if the keyword is part of a string of keywords?

For example: to get into Fantasy>Swords and Sorcery, you need to use keywords like sword, sorcery, magic and quest. Could you stuff those into one and still get into the right category? So instead of using those as separate keywords, is putting a keyword that is "sword sorcery magic quest," going to still get you into the Swords and Sorcery category? Does anyone know?

Claire Frank | Website | Twitter | Facebook | Newsletter

Offline ruecole

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3859
  • Gender: Female
  • Greater Vancouver, BC
    • View Profile
    • Rachel Elizabeth Cole
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2015, 11:16:02 AM »
Yup, this pretty much sums up my experience, too. :)

Key phrases instead of keywords. Amazon searches on any and all of them. If you've got "alien teen shifter romance ebook" and "romantic science fiction paranormal kindle book for teens" as two of your keywords and someone searches "alien shifter teen book" your book should come up in the search.

Also category keywords don't need to be isolated to work. So "funny dog Romantic comedy ebook" will still get you into the romantic comedy category.

Hope that helps!

Rue

Rachel Elizabeth Cole Website | Facebook | Twitter | Blog | Littera Designs

Offline Keith Strohm

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Gender: Male
  • Chicagoland
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2015, 11:19:06 AM »
I typed in "Paranormal romance witch ghost zombie" and your book (Halloween Magic and Mayhem) was the first to appear on the page.

   The real question is whether or not the book appears if you just type: Paranormal romance witch

   Keith
               
COMING SOON!

Offline Moist_Tissue

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2015, 11:22:51 AM »
It's kinda fun searching for possible keywords using the Amazon search.
The Molly Malones: 100%

Siuil a Run: 100%

To The Valley's Edge: 0%
Siobhn Babhar

Offline Kylo Ren

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2015, 11:23:18 AM »
Just thought I'd do some search tests for the heck of it. Entered "horror books for teens", and my book came up on the seventh page. What really kind of irks me, though, are all the books that come up in that search with pictures of muscled dudes in their underwear. Seriously? In "horror books for teens". Romance/erotica writers are out of control. ;)

Offline Kylo Ren

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1183
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Evenstar's Monster Post on Amazon Keywords
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2015, 11:24:36 AM »
   The real question is whether or not the book appears if you just type: Paranormal romance witch

   Keith

No question at all, I don't think. It would appear because those words are in her keywords.