KB Featured Book
Bloody Sunrise
by Gregg Bell

$0.99
Kindle Edition published 2017-06-06
Bestseller ranking: 4595

Product Description

Denny O'Callaghan is afraid to open his eyes.

He'd been out drinking last night with the guys, and his head throbs, his arms hurt, and he can't remember what he's done.

He opens his eyes. Blood. On his sheets. His pillowcase.

Then he gets a call: his ex-wife was murdered last night.

He desperately tries to piece together what happened. But he can't explain how he got the scratches on his arms, the police want to know about the domestic violence report his ex filed against him, and his buddies say he was raging against her last night before he stormed off on his own.

Right about the time she was murdered.

Take advantage of this introductory low price!

What readers are saying about Bloody Sunrise:

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Poll

What do you think of the new KU change? (payout per page)

I like it.  It's better than the old flat payout regardless of length
323 (72.9%)
I don't like it.  The old flat payout regardless of length payout is better
120 (27.1%)

Total Members Voted: 438

Author Topic: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)  (Read 90215 times)  

Offline geronl

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #650 on: June 16, 2015, 03:11:14 PM »
The ostensible absence of a royalty cap (other than page count) raises an interesting new situation where a book might now theoretically earn more than the ~$7 earned at the 70% rate and $9.99 ceiling. I'm in a couple large box sets, close to a million words, which are strategically priced at 99 cents. If they were enrolled in Select, borrowed, and read through, that title could earn north of $30 at the $0.01/page rate. As little as 35 cents for a sale, as much as $30 for a borrow. Now I'm really curious how they intend to quantify page reads.

August 15 can't arrive soon enough.

You have to tell us how that works out when it happens

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #651 on: June 16, 2015, 03:14:15 PM »


After my initial freakout yesterday I've had more time to sit and reflect on this.

Good.  :)   I've been an ulcer free KOLL/KU fan since I started self-publishing last year. That's not changing. :)

I look forward to publishing another series and a new serial.  I've got a novel coming out next month, but I don't have plans for more full-length novels. Not my preference. 

You do what works for you.  Don't worry about what other people do or don't do.

Amazon KOLL/KU panics on author boards follow a formula.  Get used to them.

Offline Secret Pen Pal

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #652 on: June 16, 2015, 03:18:31 PM »
So now we will get non-fiction filled with fillers.  Great.  Thanks for nothing..
Off to send Amazon a letter.   


Good point. People out to game the system will adapt. I can picture a glut of NF filled with unrelated graphs.

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #653 on: June 16, 2015, 03:29:21 PM »
This assumes that KU subscribers also buy books... Do they? To be honest, I don't know, but I would assume as they are spending 7.99 a month, they would make use of that rather than buy other books on top.

By having your books in there, you are reaching all those not in it who buy books (and benefiting from the boost borrows give algorithms), but also those who only borrow.

Going wide might be better, but only if you can crack those other markets to make up for the borrow money you would be missing.

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #654 on: June 16, 2015, 03:33:18 PM »
Now as to WHY you would put a novel in KU, even though you make LESS money on it? Simple: KU readers don't buy eBooks. They don't have to.

Do you have a source for that statistic?  Because this KU reader buys books.  If I like an author, I binge read that author.  If all of the author's books aren't in KU, I'll buy ones that aren't.  My feeling is that most KU readers are voracious readers.  I joined KU because I was spending $10 a month on books that were in the Kindle Daily Deals that were also in KU.  So now, I pick up those books in KU and then still spend the rest of my book budget on books NOT in KU.

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Offline horrordude1973

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #655 on: June 16, 2015, 03:36:42 PM »
Do you have a source for that statistic?  Because this KU reader buys books.  If I like an author, I binge read that author.  If all of the author's books aren't in KU, I'll buy ones that aren't.  My feeling is that most KU readers are voracious readers.  I joined KU because I was spending $10 a month on books that were in the Kindle Daily Deals that were also in KU.  So now, I pick up those books in KU and then still spend the rest of my book budget on books NOT in KU.

Betsy

I  have KU and I buy books all the time. I know many others who do as well. I use KU to check out new authors I haven't read before and I buy books for authors I know and like. Many of my readers tell me the same. Or since I release so many books they get it on KU first to read it, then buy it later when they have the money. Without some hard data saying KU useers don't buy books is meaningless

Offline lilywhite

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #656 on: June 16, 2015, 03:55:44 PM »
I knew it would be worth it until and unless the borrow rate dropped to where I made .50. It just did.

Oh, good, I've been waiting for Amazon to release the figures. Can you link me?

Offline J.T. Williams

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #657 on: June 16, 2015, 03:57:11 PM »
I'm think I'm happy about this change. I have plans for the next year laid out that have to be tweaked now, but my primary output is novel length 70k to 100k works. I can understand how many, particularly short story writers, are distressed by this new payout. I had planned to put out multiple shorts for the purpose of KU but now I will bundle into collections. It is too early to see the actual $ per page but I went into Select for exposure. When my novel is priced at 3.99 and my borrow to sale rate is 3-1, I took it as an expected hit for increased exposure. I loved when my 12k short story collection was borrowed... but I figured that wouldn't last. In my case, I think this will work out better.

I was reading an old post by Russell Blake (His "sale loads of books" post). I thought about how now short fiction worked well due to KU and how this was example of how things change... But for the last few days his advice to write novels and just novels, kept bouncing in my head... I feel like this might be why.

This is my first time seeing a sudden change in the landscape... expect the unexpected. Got it.  ;)



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Offline ellenoc

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #658 on: June 16, 2015, 03:57:57 PM »
I  have KU and I buy books all the time. I know many others who do as well.

Me too, and I've discovered new-to-me authors through KU and bought their books. The couple of other KU subscribers I've asked have also reported buying books in addition to borrowing.

As to the whole short vs. long debate. Of course quality matters. Even though I favor longer reads, I'd rather read a good short story than a mediocre novel, although in my case I wouldn't read the mediocre novel. I have no qualms about abandoning anything the minute I'm bored. However, as a big fan of Craig Johnson's Walt Longmire series, I can tell you I'm not paying the same for one of his short stories as for one of his novels. I really don't care if it takes him twice as long to craft the short story. As a reader what I care about is how long the story is going to entertain me, and a novel is going to do that many times longer than a short story.

Offline Ainsley

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #659 on: June 16, 2015, 03:58:07 PM »
Just because you wrote a 600 page book doesn't mean someone is going to read the whole thing. If they read 50 pages of your epic story and read all 150 page of mine then guess what? I just made more.


Exactly. I don't see how this is that bad a thing for shorter works.

Offline MyraScott

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #660 on: June 16, 2015, 04:02:54 PM »
I see a lot of bashing of the novella and short story authors here and ringing of our death knells how we are about to be "hosed" and we are "done for"


Can you link to the "hosed" and "done for" posts?  I couldn't find them.

Offline Saul Tanpepper

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #661 on: June 16, 2015, 04:06:39 PM »
Exactly. I don't see how this is that bad a thing for shorter works.

It's not*. It might be a bad thing if you've shifted your strategy to writing shorter works because you expected to always get the same payout as longer ones. Who this unequivocally hurts is the authors of any length who can't keep readers engaged. And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing.

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Offline horrordude1973

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #662 on: June 16, 2015, 04:09:54 PM »
Can you link to the "hosed" and "done for" posts?  I couldn't find them.

I've seen at least 4 or 5, not gonna comb through this entire thread to look for them now

Offline Secret Pen Pal

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #663 on: June 16, 2015, 04:26:05 PM »
The comparison is between the earlier KU program and the new KU program. $2.50 > $1.35 so the new program is better for novels.

Whether it is good or bad for a particular book is far more complicated and always has been. Simply saying you make more from a sale ignores the fact that some borrows would never convert to sales. The actual equation is a little different though. How many of those borrows would ever have been sales? How much higher is your book in the rankings because of those borrows and how many additional sales does that result in?

Example: I can think of one author I discovered in KU. I read everything she wrote. She has since dropped out. I bought her next release so she made $2.09 which is greater than $1.35 so she made out better dropping out, right? No because she's released three books and I have passed on two that I absolutely would have read with KU, so she's actually lost $1.91. She's also not hitting the top 10 in category either which means she's not getting as much exposure. Now, she might still be right. I might give in and buy the books. But it's not as simple as the buy/borrow amounts in straight comparison.

The actual calculation or more accurately guess-timation we need to make is whether borrows + sales due to greater visibility from borrows > Amazon sales converted to borrows + 3rd party sales.

Good points. Reaching readers has been a major value of KU for me. Doubt there's any other way I could have moved as many ebooks with so little promo on new pen names. And I doubt most of those readers would be buying most of my books if they weren't in KU; I'm new and don't have the budget for major promo.

I have titles that get 30 to 50 percent sales, at least for some weeks, and others that get more than 90% borrows. I experimented with taking some bundles out of KU to see if there'd be a significant improvement in sales. Sure, I'm making more on each unit, but I'm making less per title on those and I'm losing a lot of exposure for the links in the backmatter because they reach far fewer readers.

I'm not excited about the change, but based on the sell-through on most of my series and serials, readers are going through my books start to finish and picking up the next one.

I'm in agreement with HorrorDude that short lengths won't necessarily be at a disadvantage. Volume may take on greater importance, provided that the work is compelling.

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #664 on: June 16, 2015, 04:35:07 PM »
Length has nothing to do with the worth  of a thing. The amount of money and time the author spent has nothing to do with its worth either.

Your book, no matter the length, is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. Readers care that the book is something they want to read and that their time won't be wasted.

This is a meritocracy in that if you write books people want to read and can't put down, you will likely be rewarded. That was true before KU and will continue to be true after this change. Maybe more so, since now your books will have to be good enough to keep people reading or you won't get paid inside that system.  Which means people writing 50 page stories that get fully read because they are awesome will still earn more than someone writing 500 page novels that lose most readers in the first 20 pages.

Your books are worth what people will pay. Finding that sweet spot of maximizing readership and income is the hard part.

A short story that has demand for it is, technically, worth more than a novel that has no demand, because people will pay for one and not the the other, and therefore the one will out-earn the other. That's reality.

So yeah, I imagine a lot of the serials will make less than before, but probably still more than a lot of people loading in novels that don't get read at all. :)


Offline Kenson

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #665 on: June 16, 2015, 04:37:18 PM »
Who this unequivocally hurts is the authors of any length who can't keep readers engaged. And I'm not so sure that's a bad thing

Exactly!  I don't write novellas.  I'm not sure I know how to and I take the view that a good story takes as long as it takes to be told.
So I'm basically in favour of this change.  It doesn't mean that I'm guaranteed to make any more money out of it but the potential is there IF I can keep the reader engaged to the end of the book.  If I can't do that then it's a reflection on my storytelling ability rather than any changes that are made to KU.
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Offline Herc- The Reluctant Geek

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #666 on: June 16, 2015, 04:37:24 PM »
What I want to know is, how will they handle slow readers? What if a person borrows a book, then reads two or three pages a day, over 80 or 100 days? How will Amazon handle the royalty? Will we see the same book come up in our borrowed column over a three month period, and get paid for the pages read during that period? Or will we only get paid for the first month and lose the rest?

What if someone borrows a book, reads half, returns it, then borrows it again 2 months later and reads the second half? Will we get paid for the second borrow? After all, we didn't get paid for the second half of the book the first time around and we are now being paid per page rather than per borrow.

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #667 on: June 16, 2015, 04:39:29 PM »
I see a lot of bashing of the novella and short story authors here and ringing of our death knells how we are about to be "hosed" and we are "done for"
Can you link to the "hosed" and "done for" posts?  I couldn't find them.
I've seen at least 4 or 5, not gonna comb through this entire thread to look for them now

I found several writers of children's books or shorter forms who themselves used those terms, but not other people.  I have found a little bit of us vs them in this thread, which I'd prefer not to see.  I've also seen references to KU content providers who produce "scraped" content or who have taken longer works and chopped them into smaller pieces just to take advantage of the current pay structure; I didn't read those comments as directed at authors who do write original works in shorter forms.

If I missed something, I apologize.  Let's, going forward, respect the hard work of your fellow members. 

Thanks,

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Offline thisisgarrett

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #668 on: June 16, 2015, 04:41:17 PM »
The principle remains. For other than picture book publishers, writers who keep readers reading to the end will benefit the most from this new system.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. I do believe there are delicate intricacies involved with publishing and promoting that are being discussed here, but once the reader opens your novel and you get them to keep turning pages you should be fine. Keep them turning pages, right?

Now I haven't read through all (as of now) 28 pages of this thread, but this is more of a payout thing rather than exposure thing right?

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #669 on: June 16, 2015, 04:41:57 PM »
What I want to know is, how will they handle slow readers? What if a person borrows a book, then reads two or three pages a day, over 80 or 100 days? How will Amazon handle the royalty? Will we see the same book come up in our borrowed column over a three month period, and get paid for the pages read during that period? Or will we only get paid for the first month and lose the rest?

What if someone borrows a book, reads half, returns it, then borrows it again 2 months later and reads the second half? Will we get paid for the second borrow? After all, we didn't get paid for the second half of the book the first time around and we are now being paid per page rather than per borrow.

I would guess that slow readers would not get their "money's worth" from a subscription service, so I'm thinking they're probably a very small percentage.

Offline Elizabeth Ann West

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #670 on: June 16, 2015, 04:42:09 PM »
My guess is it's just like current borrows. If you pull a book OUT of KDP select and it gets reads the next month, you are paid at the following month's payout, not the payout in which the book was clicked.

So hypothetically, as a reader takes longer to read your book, if it spans over a change in the month, then you will get paid one rate for the pages read in say July and a different rate in say August, because the pool of money and total pages read in any given month change.


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Offline Boyd

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #671 on: June 16, 2015, 04:50:27 PM »
Length has nothing to do with the worth  of a thing. The amount of money and time the author spent has nothing to do with its worth either.

Your book, no matter the length, is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. Readers care that the book is something they want to read and that their time won't be wasted.

This is a meritocracy in that if you write books people want to read and can't put down, you will likely be rewarded. That was true before KU and will continue to be true after this change. Maybe more so, since now your books will have to be good enough to keep people reading or you won't get paid inside that system.  Which means people writing 50 page stories that get fully read because they are awesome will still earn more than someone writing 500 page novels that lose most readers in the first 20 pages.

Your books are worth what people will pay. Finding that sweet spot of maximizing readership and income is the hard part.

A short story that has demand for it is, technically, worth more than a novel that has no demand, because people will pay for one and not the the other, and therefore the one will out-earn the other. That's reality.

So yeah, I imagine a lot of the serials will make less than before, but probably still more than a lot of people loading in novels that don't get read at all. :)



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Offline Rykymus

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #672 on: June 16, 2015, 04:55:11 PM »
Amazon isn't trying to stop the scammers. If they wanted to, they could. It isn't worth their time...yet.

Will this make it more difficult for scammers? I think possibly. However, the smart ones will adapt, and maybe even make more. The dumb ones will give up and look for some other get-rich-quick scheme.  Frankly, either way, I don't care. It's effect on my business is negligible at best.

I agree that length does not determine value. I also agree that a short story is not of less value than a long one. Value is determined by the reader, not the writer. All I want is to get paid the same 'per word' for my work as everyone else. I get that some people might take a year to write a 10k short, while others might crank out 4 - 100k novels in that same year. However, the fact that it took one person longer to write those 10k words does not make them worth more per word, or per story. I shouldn't be penalized because some people take longer to write, or because some people choose to write short stories instead of novels.

I don't which anyone to lose revenue, but guess what? Those of you who were writing shorts because they paid better in KU were milking a poorly designed system. Good for you, but so sorry, the free-ride is over.

Also, so many people recommending 'go-wide'. I did. I lost $15k a month for months. Even worse, the subscription rate to my mailing list dropped by 50%, and that mailing list is what gets me into the top 10 of all of Amazon every time I release a new novel. I'm back in Select/KU, and I'm not going anywhere for quite a while. So when you blindly shout 'go-wide', I just laugh and shake my head. Fact is, no matter how much you want it to be, it ain't right for everyone.

Offline Boyd

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #673 on: June 16, 2015, 04:58:37 PM »
Amazon isn't trying to stop the scammers. If they wanted to, they could. It isn't worth their time...yet.

Will this make it more difficult for scammers? I think possibly. However, the smart ones will adapt, and maybe even make more. The dumb ones will give up and look for some other get-rich-quick scheme.  Frankly, either way, I don't care. It's effect on my business is negligible at best.

I agree that length does not determine value. I also agree that a short story is not of less value than a long one. Value is determined by the reader, not the writer. All I want is to get paid the same 'per word' for my work as everyone else. I get that some people might take a year to write a 10k short, while others might crank out 4 - 100k novels in that same year. However, the fact that it took one person longer to write those 10k words does not make them worth more per word, or per story. I shouldn't be penalized because some people take longer to write, or because some people choose to write short stories instead of novels.

I don't which anyone to lose revenue, but guess what? Those of you who were writing shorts because they paid better in KU were milking a poorly designed system. Good for you, but so sorry, the free-ride is over.

Also, so many people recommending 'go-wide'. I did. I lost $15k a month for months. Even worse, the subscription rate to my mailing list dropped by 50%, and that mailing list is what gets me into the top 10 of all of Amazon every time I release a new novel. I'm back in Select/KU, and I'm not going anywhere for quite a while. So when you blindly shout 'go-wide', I just laugh and shake my head. Fact is, no matter how much you want it to be, it ain't right for everyone.

But man... you are in the top 10...

BTW, when's your next release?  It's killing me :)

Offline justphil

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Re: New KU Payout & Program Change MEGA Thread--Now with Poll! (MERGED)
« Reply #674 on: June 16, 2015, 05:06:16 PM »
Our Amazon sales dropped 90% because we dropped out of Select and KU last year. 

I wrote about Amazon only a couple of months ago.   Our last KU author pulled her stuff from Select back in December, I believe.  Her formerly steady sales went to zero and have stayed there ever since.  Her book pages have been savaged.  Categories disappeared.  Ranking through the floor.  It's almost as if her Amazon book pages were turned off by flipping a switch.   She sells practically nothing now.  She is our best-selling author.

The reality is this:  Amazon is turning into Spotify, and you aren't Taylor Swift. 

What Amazon promised was a high royalty (up to 70%) and a big audience.  Now they are delivering neither.  They are willing to build an infrastructure to count, page by page, how many words into a book our readers travel (while concealing the actual identity of that reader, of course, gotta keep that leash tight), but remain unwilling to tell us how many people actually see our book pages on their site.  Now why is that? 

Is it because they don't want the average author to know Amazon isn't delivering the audience they promised?

Can we give up a couple of pennies a book and get some visibility?  How about growing the pie, Jeff?  You've got the audience.  Maybe spending a little less time shaving Lincoln's beard and a little more time putting the right books in the hands of the right readers will solve your "how many ants can we fit in this tiny little cage" problem.  Why is this a problem for you?  Let me break it down for you Jeff: 

Amazon has the most refined marketing machine known to man, yet for some reason they can't match readers with books even if we pay them.  Why?

Proof?  Simple.  Ask the average middle grade author how their numbers look on Amazon.  My guess is (since I work with a room full of them) they'll tell you they would make more money if they loaded their work in a wheelbarrow and rolled it up and down Venice Beach on a Tuesday evening in October.

Those of us willing to look past this "solve a puzzle, win a prize" business model know two things.  One, Amazon has utterly abandoned (on your behalf) any pretense of being a book sellerSELLING books leads to wealth, and we can't have wealthy authors getting all uppity in the bread shop.   So instead of selling books and being able to say "I sold a million books" it's borrow-rent-a-grabby books, which can't be quantified any more because nobody sold anything.  And Amazon can unilaterally decide on a minute-by-minute basis how much money you actually make.   The most mud-soaked sharecroppers in the most miserable medieval hole ever known to man would be appalled.

Amazon is gradually taking control and ownership away from you and keeping it for themselves.  The KDP self-publishing deal has been getting steadily worse for years and years.   

Meanwhile, Kindle Unlimited is you competing with yourself. 

What I know is this:  our guild made more money in 19 days out of our own store than we did in four years on Amazon.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 05:12:54 PM by justphil »