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Offline Shei Darksbane

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #100 on: October 17, 2015, 08:50:48 AM »
You were wrong in more than one way. You were not "just informing" by saying that my self-designation is considered offensive. That puts me in the position of exclusion in a supposedly supportive thread. So you were policing and you were challenged on it. I used to run a trans support group in London that mostly attracted transsexual members, who owned that self-designation with pride. Mostly you were wrong because it was you that started stating what terms could be used in this thread.

One of my non-fiction sites: http://transwrites.com

Yes, I was just informing. You may not have taken it that way, but that's how I intended it. You're taking this personally when it wasn't aimed at you to begin with. I responded to another poster who claimed naivety on the topic and let them know that transsexual is considered offensive to some people.

Take a second and look at this logically, will you?
I'm LGBT. I'm a huge ally of Transpeople with lots of transpeople in my life, and I used to identify as trans. I have been a part of several trans support groups, and I am hugely supportive of transpeople of all kinds.
And all I was doing was trying to make sure that respect was sent to transpeople.

Regional differences are bound to happen. In my part of the world right now, I've heard a lot of talk that "Transsexual is not acceptable anymore as it's often confusing for people and leads people to believe that a transwoman is really just a cross-dressing gay guy and not a woman in her own right with a sexuality that is separate from that identity." Seriously. That is a quote from one of my support groups' rules page. I'm not here trying to police what terms can and can't be used in a thread. I'm here suggesting that people use respectful terms, and I suggested to someone who claimed naivety on the topic that  the term they used may not be the best one.

The way I feel about things: If this is your identity? You can call yourself *whatever* you darn-well please. Seriously. I do not care. I believe you have *every single right* to call yourself whatever makes you happiest and whatever you feel is inclusive and respectful. I promise that is the absolute truth of Shei. Shei just wants people to be happy with themselves. Take a moment and accept the fact that I am not trying to do something harmful to you. I was just trying to defend your rights. (That is what I *thought* I was doing because I didn't realize you were a transperson, and because in my circles, transsexual is now considered offensive, I was trying to defend transpeople and promote the currently most accepted term as per my best information. Look at that logically. I'm seriously on YOUR side.)

But I'm not lying when I say that in my circles, the support groups I am a part of currently, "transgender" is currently considered the most respectful and accepted word.
In those groups, transsexual is not used anymore, and right now transgendered is being eyed with potential dislike (though people are arguing that one still. I still think it's a reasonable word, and it's actually the one I used when I identified as TG in the past).

So can we please have a chill pill and just calllllm down? :) I didn't mean to offend you, and I wasn't trying to police you. I swear, I was only trying to educate people who didn't seem to know the latest most PC terms as per my best current knowledge. I didn't mean any harm to you. I'm on your side. So please, can we let it go and get back to the topic?

Offline ShawnaN

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #101 on: October 17, 2015, 01:19:56 PM »
Can anyone tell me what magic category and keyword combo you need to get in the LGBT mystery/detective category?


Hi Shei,

Thanks for starting this thread.  I am an author of gay fiction (Gay / Literary / a little Magical Realism thrown into one of my books.)  Anyway, I am new.  I just started publishing in Amazon in April.  And getting my books reviewed is a challenge. I was wondering if anyone knows of good websites for getting reviews for LGBT books, or any other suggestions for getting reviews.

Thanks,
James

I run WildeTimesTavern.com as hobby site and do reviews of LGBTQ+ books. I have a bit of a teensy backlog right now since it's just a hobby site, but I'm happy to help anyone out with reviews. One of my reviewers also cross-posts all of her reviews on Amazon and Goodreads.
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Offline Shei Darksbane

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #102 on: October 17, 2015, 06:23:18 PM »
Can anyone tell me what magic category and keyword combo you need to get in the LGBT mystery/detective category?


I run WildeTimesTavern.com as hobby site and do reviews of LGBTQ+ books. I have a bit of a teensy backlog right now since it's just a hobby site, but I'm happy to help anyone out with reviews. One of my reviewers also cross-posts all of her reviews on Amazon and Goodreads.

Hmm. I would think put it in a mystery bisac on your two you can pick from KDP dashboard, then keyword gay or lesbian (whatever is appropriate). :)

And thanks! I'll have to submit my stuff.

Offline Spinneyhead

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #103 on: October 18, 2015, 09:32:46 AM »
What this means, now that I'm finally shutting up since "Elite: Dangerous" is finally done updating and I can go pew-pew some lame noobs (hopefully from Texas, I totally spawn-kill Texas gamers whenever the opportunity arises), is that there's another very large, very low-key audience out there who isn't being served. Or is underserved. So if you see me write a bunch of books about triads, polyrotica (I totally own that word now, you have to pay me a licensing fee to use it!), etc., you'll know I'm just trying to gain a foothold in an untapped market.
I've lost a lot of (enjoyable) hours to Elite: Dangerous this year. I'm more of an explorer than a fighter, but I'm not above collecting bounties when I can.

But, back to the theme of the thread, I tend to put bi characters into my stories a lot. I know quite a few folk who are bi, and would put myself somewhere around 1 on the Kinsey scale. I've also written a fair amount of bi- tending towards poly, sometimes- erotica.

A variety of possible relationships are opened up when you let yourself be open to the fluidity of sexuality. I'm hoping that, if I write the stories, the market will catch up with me. (The sooner, the better, of course.)

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #104 on: October 18, 2015, 06:06:07 PM »
Folks,

it appears to me that there's been some misunderstanding which has resulted in offense given when none was intended.

Let's all agree that people are allowed to choose for themselves what terms they will use.  And yes, some discussion of what those terms are is appropriate in a thread of this nature.  But arguments about them are divisive not supportive.

In a thread of this nature, many varied subjects will be broached--by its nature, it's going to be more free-wheeling than other types of threads.  Once started, this kind of support thread, even more than other topics here, can't be limited. :D  There's not one topic. 

Let's find grounds for agreement here, not disagreement.  This thread is a great idea--keep working at it and it'll be of great use to the membership.

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #105 on: October 18, 2015, 06:31:43 PM »
Folks, let's try to move on.  The OP has apologized for giving offense.  Everyone's made their points about this issue.   Move on.  And yes, we will start removing posts if this brouhaha continues, in an attempt to save a useful thread.

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Offline judygoodwin

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #106 on: October 19, 2015, 11:58:04 AM »
I'm about to launch a new mystery/thriller series with a straight female lead and a gay male supporting lead. The stories are pretty dark and probably fall into Gillian Flynn/Nicci French psychological territory (although I'm not saying I'm anywhere near as good!). I love mysteries and thrillers and as a gay man I never feel represented by the characters I read/watch within those genres. Which is exactly why I'm writing characters I feel I can identify with without the storyline explicitly being about their sexuality.

Let us know when your first book I out. This sound really interesting, and just the kind of thing I like to read.
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Offline judygoodwin

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #107 on: October 19, 2015, 12:01:36 PM »
Not really. Transgender means a person who identifies as a different gender than the body they were born with.
Transsexual is an outdated term that many now find offensive.
Transvestite has nothing to do with transgender really. It's kinda an entirely separate concept.


I agree with Shei. I know several Transgender people (MTF and FTM) and Transgender is now the acceptable term. I know it was different before, but that's just the current trend, much like "African American" or any other minority group and their preferred terms. (I'm still working on the differences between Hispanic and Latino, which since I'm in Arizona is rather important).
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Offline elizabethsade

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #108 on: October 19, 2015, 12:04:46 PM »
I agree with Shei. I know several Transgender people (MTF and FTM) and Transgender is now the acceptable term. I know it was different before, but that's just the current trend, much like "African American" or any other minority group and their preferred terms. (I'm still working on the differences between Hispanic and Latino, which since I'm in Arizona is rather important).

Hispanic generally means those of Spanish (ie, Spain) origin, Latino is generally from Latin America (Mexico, etc). To the people I know, Hispanic reminds them too much of their 'conquered' history, basically - it defines them based on the people who enslaved them. However, quite a few people that are Latino in origin have adopted Hispanic as an identifying term (mostly because of the ambiguity). So it's really up to the person, but in Arizona, most people I know prefer to be called Latinos/to refer to the group as a whole as Latinos, unless you're specifically talking about the group from Spain.

Offline judygoodwin

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #109 on: October 19, 2015, 12:14:14 PM »
Okay, finally caught up with the entire thread!  (and I'll agree that terms may be regional, enough said).

Responding to Lia--yes, I'm a writer who had written M/F, F/F, and M/M all under the same pen name, and sold pretty well for all of them. They're all short fiction, so that's the only caveat, in that they don't well as well as novels. I'm working on several M/M books (urban fantasy/mystery, YA paranormal, and an M/M paranormal shifter-tigers, not wolves). I have the idea for a college-aged lesbian mystery series, but I won't be able to get to that until I get my other projects done. Under this name I've had a lesbian character in one of my fantasy short stories, but mostly my LGBT stuff is under my J.T. Hall name, and no, I don't plan on separating out the M/M even if I get that lesbian mystery series out.

I'm bisexual, and my partner is lesbian, and I know that there IS a difference in the way that we see things, but I also know that she loves M/F romantic comedies. (way more than me. I prefer gay romantic suspense, and then also sci fi, fantasy, and horror). So while I think there are some lesbians who really want to read a lesbian romance written by a lesbian, I know there are also lesbians out there who read all kinds of other things, including gay romance and hetero romance. I'm not a lesbian, and I don't have the experience of growing up as a lesbian, so I'm not going to pretend to be one. I'm going to continue to lump my LGBT together. I haven't had a single complaint, and actually I have seen crossover. I'm blessed by the fact I have a lot of friends in every shade of the LGBTQ community and can get friends' perspective on a variety of things.

I think the F/F does seem to have a smaller market, but who knows? That can always change. M/M used to be tiny, and now look at it. And I love mixing romance with other plots, like fantasy, suspense, mystery, sci fi, etc.
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Offline Madeline_Kirby

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #110 on: October 21, 2015, 08:20:55 PM »
Can anyone tell me what magic category and keyword combo you need to get in the LGBT mystery/detective category?


I put my book in the Mystery-Cozy and Fiction-Gay categories, and it went immediately into the LGBT Mystery subcategory. Keywords that I used that I think would be pertinent to your question included: murder mystery cozy gay lgbt



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Offline MalcolmRichards

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #111 on: October 22, 2015, 03:10:56 AM »
Let us know when your first book I out. This sound really interesting, and just the kind of thing I like to read.

Lost Lives (Emily Swanson Book 1) will be out November 17th, with Book 2 out (if I get my butt into gear) a month later :)

Offline HSh

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #112 on: October 22, 2015, 10:11:09 AM »
http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,224480.0.html

Just linking to another thread where I share some art made for me by an amazing, gay-friendly artist.  :-)

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Offline ShawnaN

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #113 on: October 23, 2015, 12:33:39 AM »
I put my book in the Mystery-Cozy and Fiction-Gay categories, and it went immediately into the LGBT Mystery subcategory. Keywords that I used that I think would be pertinent to your question included: murder mystery cozy gay lgbt

ah, many thanks for this!
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Offline DentistHeatherK

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #114 on: October 25, 2015, 08:29:35 PM »
It does seem that, for whatever reason, books with coming-out struggles or "first-time" themes have the largest audiences. I think many crossover readers from M/F romance are more receptive to familiar narratives. Because of the fight for equal rights, the aspect of LGBT life that the average straight person is most familiar with is The Struggle. Angsty stories pull at heartstrings and awaken readers' sympathy. There's nothing wrong with that.

But while those are important stories to tell, one of the reasons I started writing in this genre was to tell different stories, ones in which being gay is an intrinsic part of who the characters are*, but the biggest issues in their lives are something else entirely: class differences, economic struggles, cultural divides, etc.

Believe me, LGBT fiction has come a looooooooong way. When I first started reading it in the late 90s, everyone always died at the end.  ;)

*No one just "happens to be LGBT" any more than one happens to be a minority of any sort. Sexuality and romantic feelings are a huge part of being human, not to mention the fact that society treats people differently. Obviously not every character needs to be defined by it or angst endlessly over it, but to treat a contemporary (or historical earth) character's sexuality as if it doesn't matter is akin to white-washing.

I'm a M/M reviewer, and I can't believe I haven't heard of your series! I just added all of them to my to-read list. Lots of my friends have loved your books on Goodreads.

Offline DentistHeatherK

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #115 on: October 25, 2015, 08:33:59 PM »
Also, I always do a deals post on my blog every Friday with my favorite deals of the week, so if you guys want to email me when you have promotions, feel free. I can't promise that they will make the list, but I'll try! Heather@myfictionnook.com

Offline brkingsolver

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #116 on: October 25, 2015, 08:55:35 PM »
I haven't read through this entire thread. I have a question, though. I'm in the middle of an epic (currently 3/4 written at 106K words) sci-fi/sci-fantasy/space opera/sci-fi military (I don't cross genres, I embrace them). A fundamental thread throughout the book is human infertility as the result of environmental pollution, radiation from wars, cosmic radiation, toxicity issues settling new planets, etc. Gender on a sliding scale is acknowledged and assumed by the characters. Most of the various characters' romances are hetero, but one secondary character is intersexual and bi. I'm considering (either in this book or the next one) having her find a romance. I'm even considering having her do a fling with a female hetero major character (who is a virgin). There aren't any sex scenes in the book, although they are implied.

My question is, for a mainstream audience, do you think this sort of romance, passing or permanent, between an intersexual and a het of either sex would create a backlash? In particular, would a fling with a het major (virgin, sweet and kickass) character create an eruption? Romance is not the major theme of the book, and especially this romance.

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Offline JLCarver

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #117 on: October 25, 2015, 09:10:11 PM »
I haven't read through this entire thread. I have a question, though. I'm in the middle of an epic (currently 3/4 written at 106K words) sci-fi/sci-fantasy/space opera/sci-fi military (I don't cross genres, I embrace them). A fundamental thread throughout the book is human infertility as the result of environmental pollution, radiation from wars, cosmic radiation, toxicity issues settling new planets, etc. Gender on a sliding scale is acknowledged and assumed by the characters. Most of the various characters' romances are hetero, but one secondary character is intersexual and bi. I'm considering (either in this book or the next one) having her find a romance. I'm even considering having her do a fling with a female hetero major character (who is a virgin). There aren't any sex scenes in the book, although they are implied.

My question is, for a mainstream audience, do you think this sort of romance, passing or permanent, between an intersexual and a het of either sex would create a backlash? In particular, would a fling with a het major (virgin, sweet and kickass) character create an eruption? Romance is not the major theme of the book, and especially this romance.

I think it's only a matter of how you do it. A lot of shows and books might have the token gay character so they can show a gay scene for shock value and to pander to the gay population. Take the first Melrose Place, for instance. (Not the remake.) They had a recurring gay character that, as I recall, they did very little with. All the main screen time was given to het relationships and drama. (I think a lot of it had to do with censorship by the network, though. This was back in the early 90s.)  It feels a little like exploitation in that sense, a token nod to their gay audience. Basically, don't do that.

To avoid that type of label, all you have to do, I think, is to make the relationship believable in your story. Let that storyline develop organically in your work, and you shouldn't have a problem with anyone calling it pandering. If it makes sense for the character to fall for or have sex with a heterosexual character, then it should be fine. Basically, it boils down to character development. But, if it's only there for shock value or as some kind of plot point to dramatize a main heterosexual relationship, then it could be seen as pandering.

Offline Vergence

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #118 on: October 26, 2015, 12:58:03 PM »
I write epic fantasy with gay (and straight and non-gendered) main characters that isn't romance. I need all the support I can get. :P

Honestly though, I don't think many mainstream readers care about a character's sexuality in 2015, if that was ever really a turn off. As a gay man I feel comfortable marketing to my community but at the same time I don't want to limit myself. I'm still finding my audience. And it's always great to connect with other authors.

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Offline brkingsolver

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #119 on: October 26, 2015, 01:06:29 PM »
I think it's only a matter of how you do it. A lot of shows and books might have the token gay character so they can show a gay scene for shock value and to pander to the gay population. Take the first Melrose Place, for instance. (Not the remake.) They had a recurring gay character that, as I recall, they did very little with. All the main screen time was given to het relationships and drama. (I think a lot of it had to do with censorship by the network, though. This was back in the early 90s.)  It feels a little like exploitation in that sense, a token nod to their gay audience. Basically, don't do that.

To avoid that type of label, all you have to do, I think, is to make the relationship believable in your story. Let that storyline develop organically in your work, and you shouldn't have a problem with anyone calling it pandering. If it makes sense for the character to fall for or have sex with a heterosexual character, then it should be fine. Basically, it boils down to character development. But, if it's only there for shock value or as some kind of plot point to dramatize a main heterosexual relationship, then it could be seen as pandering.
Thanks. Definitely not looking to tokenize. There isn't a place for such a romance in my current WIP, but have had some thoughts about using that character in more of a major role in a follow-on book. She's has a basic personality and talents that could be developed.

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Offline AlexisR

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #120 on: October 26, 2015, 04:19:29 PM »
Honestly though, I don't think many mainstream readers care about a character's sexuality in 2015, if that was ever really a turn off.

One of my two main protagonists/POV characters in AVG is a woman attracted to other women, although it's not apparent until you get further into the book that that's the case. Not only that, but her romantic involvement (or lack thereof) with several other female characters plays a very important role in her personal development and character arc throughout the story.

The setting also contains a social framework which actively encourages people to explore their sexuality with others of the same gender as a normal part of growing up.

I was bracing for a negative backlash given how charged the topic of LGBT characters in fantasy novels seems to be right now, so I was shocked (and pleasantly surprised) that I've only had one person give me a bad review for it so far.

More than anything, people seem genuinely curious to hear more about it all. I've had numerous requests to go into more detail on the gender and sexuality dynamics in the sequel. Go figure. I think you're right that it might just be that most people are fine with it as long as it makes sense in the context of the story.

Offline Lia Cooper

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #121 on: October 26, 2015, 04:37:30 PM »
Honestly though, I don't think many mainstream readers care about a character's sexuality in 2015, if that was ever really a turn off.

After my first Bookbub ad on my first novel i receive more than one review from readers leaving positive reviews saying it had been their first time reading something with m/m romance in it. I think when you have a really strong plot (not necessarily romantic at all) that appeals to a wide audience and then develop a character that's not traditionally heterosexual you can not only reach out to the lgbtq audience but also potentially introduce something new to historically het/straight-readers, which i feel is a really awesome thing.

i think variety and also fully developing a character is always a good idea. maybe some readers wont enjoy it, but i bet you many others will and you might even open someone else's eyes to something new.

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Offline brkingsolver

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #122 on: October 26, 2015, 05:07:56 PM »
On the flipside, I've had multiple reviews on different books where the reviewer indicated a "yuck" factor due to two female character getting too close. I never wrote the F/F scene, but the attraction between the characters turned readers off. This was in UF.

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Offline JLCarver

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #123 on: October 26, 2015, 05:38:44 PM »
On the flipside, I've had multiple reviews on different books where the reviewer indicated a "yuck" factor due to two female character getting too close. I never wrote the F/F scene, but the attraction between the characters turned readers off. This was in UF.

It would take some serious willpower for me not to tell those reviewers exactly what they could do with their review. You don't have to pander to those types of people. Write what you want to write, and if that includes a F/F love story, then there is plenty of support out there for you. If the mouth breathers don't like it, they can go read something else.

Offline Natasha Holme

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Re: LGBT Authors Support Thread
« Reply #124 on: October 27, 2015, 08:04:02 AM »
It would take some serious willpower for me not to tell those reviewers exactly what they could do with their review. You don't have to pander to those types of people. Write what you want to write, and if that includes a F/F love story, then there is plenty of support out there for you. If the mouth breathers don't like it, they can go read something else.

I had to look up 'mouth breather.' ... Does that make me a mouth breather?





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