Author Topic: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.  (Read 299885 times)  

Offline JalexM

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #175 on: October 04, 2016, 03:07:09 PM »
We saw how many borrows we got where people read to 10%. We didn't see the borrows where people read 0-9.9%.
It's still a better data point than not seeing borrows at all.

Online brkingsolver

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #176 on: October 04, 2016, 03:09:58 PM »
Response from Amazon Executive Customer Relations:

"I understand you are concerned about lower than expected pages read in your reports. Weve thoroughly reviewed all of your KU/ KOLL borrows and can confirm that the pages read displayed in your dashboard are accurate."

That's disappointing since all of my books just renewed. Going to uncheck that auto-renew now.

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Offline KaraKing

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #177 on: October 04, 2016, 03:22:21 PM »
Response from Amazon Executive Customer Relations:

"I understand you are concerned about lower than expected pages read in your reports. Weve thoroughly reviewed all of your KU/ KOLL borrows and can confirm that the pages read displayed in your dashboard are accurate."

That's disappointing since all of my books just renewed. Going to uncheck that auto-renew now.


I just got the same lame response.   >:(

I wrote back asking to be escalated to management. I will try calling tomorrow. If they don't fix this issue And continue to deny there is a problem then I am out of Select ASAP. I've been loyal to select for almost 5 years but this is ridiculous. I don't mind the wonkiness. I know mistakes happen but the denial and brushing us aside is what makes me really upset.

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Offline LadyG

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #178 on: October 04, 2016, 03:38:29 PM »
Response from Amazon Executive Customer Relations:

"I understand you are concerned about lower than expected pages read in your reports. Weve thoroughly reviewed all of your KU/ KOLL borrows and can confirm that the pages read displayed in your dashboard are accurate."

That's disappointing since all of my books just renewed. Going to uncheck that auto-renew now.

I just got the same response. And today, after 9 days of zero pages read, I'm suddenly showing 128 pages from my least popular book. Odd.

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Offline RedAlert

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #179 on: October 04, 2016, 03:59:22 PM »
It's fundamentally unfair to not be able to see all the data.  It shouldn't be a trade secret when the author just wants to improve his/her product and create a good customer relationship--good for the author, good for Amazon.  And also, wants to get paid for their work, if only a little per page.  Hey, it's their system, they made it up, they're the ones implementing it.  They need to fix it forthwith.

It's a control issue.  It's also a trust issue.  It's a business model that works in favor of Amazon.  The right book can make a mint in KU.  That's why it's an attractive proposition.  And easy to use.  But, not if they are going to jack with the numbers.

I'm not in favor of public shaming campaigns.  So far, people have wanted to verify that there is a problem, and what exactly is wrong, and just, what's going on.  That's not so bad, publicly, not when authors' livelihoods are at stake.  But, you're not going to force Amazon to do anything.

Amazon probably doesn't want anyone to know anything about whatever is going on because authors will leave KU.  And someone in the food chain did something stupid, and he/she will not want it out there, either.

Okay, so there's the new Amazon AI:  that's who's at fault.  It figured out that stupid humans don't know their counts, anyway.  Good to go!

Did you know that Jeff Bezos is the second richest billionaire?  Expedite, and just email Jeff.  The minions will only tell you that the numbers are correct, and you get NOTHING.  After all, you don't know any different.  And, your money isn't even pocket change to Bezos.  Your money is the change the maid finds between his couch cushions.

I find it very hard to believe that Amazon has not fixed this problem since September 5th.  Very, very curious about this.

I think you have to bide a bit more.



Offline Indiecognito

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #180 on: October 04, 2016, 04:03:21 PM »
Response from Amazon Executive Customer Relations:

"I understand you are concerned about lower than expected pages read in your reports. Weve thoroughly reviewed all of your KU/ KOLL borrows and can confirm that the pages read displayed in your dashboard are accurate."

That's disappointing since all of my books just renewed. Going to uncheck that auto-renew now.

Same reply today. Not happy at all.

Offline JalexM

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #181 on: October 04, 2016, 04:12:49 PM »
Could those threadjacking to say they now want borrow information perhaps go start another thread?

This is about the KU page reads problem... not your desire to get more detailed data from Amazon. You think this is great leverage to demand a whole lot of stuff? Go right ahead... but let's keep this thread on track.

This is a serious issue that needs attention and we don't need to muddy the waters by thinking its leverage to get something else.

Back to the thread... I spent some time yesterday breaking down daily sales to page read ratios. Early September is when things suddenly jolted. A statistician would say there was a material change! Going from a ratio of 3:1 borrows:sales to 1:1 or reversed is incredibly suspect.
It's not thread jacking as if we did have borrow information we could figure out who exactly is having a problem and who is just having slow sales. It's related to the problem at hand.

Offline AliceW

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #182 on: October 04, 2016, 04:18:06 PM »
It's not thread jacking as if we did have borrow information we could figure out who exactly is having a problem and who is just having slow sales. It's related to the problem at hand.

It is thread jacking, and it's not going to help. How does knowing author A has 100 borrows and author B has 200 in any way help determine the issue? Unless you are given ALL data about reader behaviour, including how many pages each individual reads, its going to be meaningless to compare your borrows to anyone else's. Just like comparing pages read with someone else is meaningless unless your two titles are strongly related in terms of genre, age, length, rank etc. Even if you knew borrows, some authors will refuse to believe that they aren't getting 100% read throughs. As I said up thread, asking for borrows just muddies the water. It won't resolve the problem at hand.

Online LKRigel

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #183 on: October 04, 2016, 04:18:24 PM »
I got this response:

Quote
Hello Ms. Rigel,

We'll need a little time to look into your KENPC concerns. I've reached out to our Technical Team to investigate this issue and well contact you with more information as soon as we hear back from them.

Thanks for your patience.

Regards,

I included specific ASIN numbers in my query and the reasons why I felt the KU page read numbers were off.

Offline lostones

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #184 on: October 04, 2016, 04:27:18 PM »
This is my concern with demanding to know borrows - how does that help? I can see authors then assuming every single borrow should result in a full count of pages read. But readers don't all sit down and read 100% of a book as soon as they borrow it. You cannot know the particular behaviour of every reader. Personally I think demanding to know borrows is simply going to muddy the water further. What author wants to be told they have a high number of borrows and few pages read because readers are abandoning the book? Knowing number of borrows (presupposing Amazon would ever release that data) will create a whole different set of problems.

Exactly. Would it be nice to know borrows? Of course but it means nothing when we are paid according to page reads not borrows. There are many books i have borrowed and read 6 months later. Now if an author got all annoyed and said that Amazon was not counting those reads they would be wrong. They keep count once i read not before.

Secondly if you try to base reads of book 2 and 3 on how people read the first book you will get skewed results. I get way more reads on a the first in a series than i do on the 2nd and 3rd. People drop off. It's the nature of the beast.

Third. Let's face it. Amazon is prone to make mistakes but they are also very quick to fix them. I remember early this year they messed up everyone's excel, then removed them all and redid it within 24hrs.

That's why i say do 2 things:

1. Don't look at page reads and sales until one day after ( most get updated overnight )
2. Screen grab your month to date KU normalized reads and compare it with the excel. If they match, it's correct. (Anything beyond that is speculation).

Offline lostones

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #185 on: October 04, 2016, 04:29:18 PM »
It's not thread jacking as if we did have borrow information we could figure out who exactly is having a problem and who is just having slow sales. It's related to the problem at hand.

I disagree. Borrows do not = reads.

I can borrow and not read. Borrows mean nothing, except one step in the process.

Offline JalexM

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #186 on: October 04, 2016, 04:36:45 PM »
It is thread jacking, and it's not going to help. How does knowing author A has 100 borrows and author B has 200 in any way help determine the issue? Unless you are given ALL data about reader behaviour, including how many pages each individual reads, its going to be meaningless to compare your borrows to anyone else's. Just like comparing pages read with someone else is meaningless unless your two titles are strongly related in terms of genre, age, length, rank etc. Even if you knew borrows, some authors will refuse to believe that they aren't getting 100% read throughs. As I said up thread, asking for borrows just muddies the water. It won't resolve the problem at hand.
It does help, it's data that helps paint a picture of previous performance to know if you're having an issue or not. Without it, you don't know if it's amazon's problem or your momentum has fell off, because of that lack of data, their blowing up Amazon's customers service without data points to help their cause.
For some many authors claiming to run their book releasing as a business, it's surprising hearing them say that they don't mind a lack of data that could help approve their business.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 04:54:19 PM by JalexM »

Online Becca Mills

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #187 on: October 04, 2016, 04:42:09 PM »
Could those threadjacking to say they now want borrow information perhaps go start another thread?

This is about the KU page reads problem... not your desire to get more detailed data from Amazon. You think this is great leverage to demand a whole lot of stuff? Go right ahead... but let's keep this thread on track.

This is a serious issue that needs attention and we don't need to muddy the waters by thinking its leverage to get something else.

Becca Fanning is the one who advocated using the situation to press for borrow numbers. Is it possible to threadjack one's own thread?




Offline P.J. Post

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #188 on: October 04, 2016, 04:45:16 PM »
Borrows mean someone clicked on your book - it's a discrete number, the aggregate of which lets the author know how many people may be reading their books (after a little math), but exactly how many are clicking on the covers. Sales + borrows = individual transactions. This is extremely useful data, and can be leveraged separately from page reads.

I'm curious, if the page reads are not getting counted, then are the borrows? Without the borrow data, how can we know if ranks are being accurately reflected?

We already know that free promos are not accurately reflecting rank.

Rank = visibility.

And visibility is everything.

Offline WasAnn

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #189 on: October 04, 2016, 05:00:15 PM »
Let's put the borrow/reads/freebie/rank issue like this.

Right now, we're all guessing as to whether or not we're involved in this problem with the reads. We're also guessing about freebie issues.

BUT, we would have one extra data point that would help our guessing. If your reads AND your borrows took a nosedive like we've seen for this current issue, but your rank was fine, then it would be obvious and many of us would probably have contacted Zon sooner. If borrows and reads and rank fell into the toilet on all our books at the same time, then we'd know there was a visibility problem that needed more research.

In short, more data equal better knowledge. Right now we're not getting big portions of the data that is carried about OUR products. More is better, more inspires greater trust, more lets us react more appropriately and with greater confidence.

This isn't about just people wanking about people borrowing but not reading their book, because in the end, that's also good data, but about being able to sort the business with sufficient knowledge to sort the business.

Offline KGupton

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #190 on: October 04, 2016, 05:12:41 PM »
After a week of no pages read at all from any of my books (not normal), today I woke up to find over 1000 pages read. Weird.
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Offline lilywhite

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #191 on: October 04, 2016, 05:33:01 PM »
We saw how many borrows we got where people read to 10%. We didn't see the borrows where people read 0-9.9%.

Nor did we have any way to know how many people quit at 10.1%. It was a useless piece of information for anything besides conversion and income.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 05:44:37 PM by lilywhite »

Online Crystal_

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #192 on: October 04, 2016, 06:54:19 PM »
After more careful consideration, I'm still unsure of whether my pages are low for the normal reasons (ads less effective as I reuse them, lack of promos, last release was just okay) or if they're off. I am going to email Amazon about the titles in my main name and I will call if emails are ineffective. I expect a "we're looking into it."

It's alarming that Amazon isn't being forthright about this. I love being in KU/Select and my strategy for the next six to twelve months is based around it, but if this isn't resolved in time for my next release, I don't see how I can justify putting it in KU/Select.

Offline Kessie Carroll

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #193 on: October 04, 2016, 07:17:31 PM »
I'm glad to see this thread. I haven't had any page reads due to not promoting. But today I checked my chart, and I had a new page read spike from about two weeks ago. So, um, yeah, something broke in Sept.
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Offline Becca Fanning

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #194 on: October 04, 2016, 08:13:56 PM »
One thing that might be helpful in the days going forward is to write down your total pages read for September (Book Report makes this easy) and/or generate a report from your KDP dashboard.

Becca Fanning

Offline Christy777

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #195 on: October 04, 2016, 10:21:40 PM »
I just got the same response. And today, after 9 days of zero pages read, I'm suddenly showing 128 pages from my least popular book. Odd.

Yup, I got that same response! Such BS! I have old shorts published before KU2 that got more page reads than a book that went live Friday night. Old shorts rank today in the 370,000s. New book rank (with 0 page reads today) in the 22,000s. Seriously? Seriously? Everything is fine?! :(

Offline KhaosFoxe

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #196 on: October 05, 2016, 02:34:06 AM »
I received the same email brushing me off this morning. I politely asked them to escalate the problem as having a book on promotion achieve a rank below 5,000 in the Amazon store, and still only have a couple of hundred pages read didn't make any sense.

Offline AlexaKang

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #197 on: October 05, 2016, 03:30:12 AM »
I haven't joined in until now because I don't sell huge like some of you and I can't tell for sure based on my own sales history. But now I am seeing a pattern of:

1. very huge dip in KU reads on a few days

2. my book ranking fluctuates so dramatically it makes very little sense. Also the rankings don't seem to match the number of downloads. I show more sales than what the rankings would indicate (and yes that's after I waited 12-24 hrs for the ranking to catch up).

OTOH, since I don't sell in the hundreds nor do I reach page reads in the tens of thousands, I really can't be sure if it's just because some days my book just isn't selling. What weirds me out is how fast the ranking would dip and dip so low, and then it picks back up again.

Offline LeonardDHilleyII

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #198 on: October 05, 2016, 06:00:34 AM »
Response from Amazon Executive Customer Relations:

"I understand you are concerned about lower than expected pages read in your reports. Weve thoroughly reviewed all of your KU/ KOLL borrows and can confirm that the pages read displayed in your dashboard are accurate."

That's disappointing since all of my books just renewed. Going to uncheck that auto-renew now.


I had just put all of my books back in a few weeks ago. I had two huge spikes and then the nosedive on the same day as everyone else. I had also run promotions right after the spike for the books that had risen in rank, but have had no pages read at all (none that have shown anyway). It is odd. Sadly, we have no real data to access, only what the graph shows (IF it is working). I've not received a reply as of it, but I expect it to be the same as those above.

Here's something no one has mentioned and did anyone else notice this? Around the time of the nosedive, I went to Amazon's main page and noticed numerous glitches. Constant flashing of the entire page occurred when I was trying to use the search engine, and this only occurred on their page. I scrolled down to access KDP but only a blank screen came up, as if the link was broken. Amazon was the only website where I encountered this.


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Offline Denise Templey

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #199 on: October 05, 2016, 06:23:54 AM »
Have you seen the new announcement in the KDP Community  (next to your Reports tab)?


Announcement: Update on KENPC Inquiries
"Weve recently received a number of contacts regarding KENPC counts and have been investigating each case to make sure our KENPC reporting is timely and accurate. We regularly monitor pages-read systems for accuracy and to ensure we are recording all legitimate reading activity, including a month-end audit. In the past week, we uncovered one timing-based reporting issue affecting less than 0.2% of pages read which we fixed on 9/28. We are also now in the process of completing our September month-end audit."
          
Happy reading:)