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TBD
by TBD

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Kindle Edition published 2016-01-12
Bestseller ranking: 757432

Product Description
With the odd disappearance of her parents, Gussie Gibson has lived her entire life with her granny on a peaceful pecan orchard, owned by the meanest man in all of Georgia—Mr. J.P. Combs. Granny teaches Gussie many valuable life lessons as a black woman growing up in the still-segregated south. Mr. Combs is an evil underhanded banker who takes liberties beyond his privilege. When Granny dies, Combs informs Gussie she owes him back rent—but he wants much more than money for payment—and more than Gussie can live with.
After defending herself against his sexual advances, Gussie flees to escape certain vigilante justice when she meets a charming, handsome stranger, Sam Johnson, who is just returning from World War II.
Gussie and Sam’s friendship is short-lived when Mr. Combs hunts her down and drags her back to Green Ridge, driven by his craving for revenge and a grudge too deep to comprehend. Gussie fights to return to Sam and his lo...

Author Topic: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.  (Read 309710 times)  

Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3175 on: May 06, 2017, 12:33:08 PM »
The loss of page reads has now come up on the KindleUsersForum in the UK.  ::)

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3176 on: May 06, 2017, 03:05:46 PM »
The loss of page reads has now come up on the KindleUsersForum in the UK.  ::)

This is a serious problem and not merely a page-flip problem and needs to be fixed by Amazon. If authors are being shorted page reads in KU because of the way Amazon counts page reads, that's tantamount to fraud. Of course it's not wilful but the effect is the same--a loss of money for the authors. Amazon should either fix it or junk the page read system. To continue with this travesty is both unfair and an insult to all authors.


Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3177 on: May 06, 2017, 03:40:57 PM »
This is a serious problem and not merely a page-flip problem and needs to be fixed by Amazon. If authors are being shorted page reads in KU because of the way Amazon counts page reads, that's tantamount to fraud. Of course it's not wilful but the effect is the same--a loss of money for the authors. Amazon should either fix it or junk the page read system. To continue with this travesty is both unfair and an insult to all authors.


Considering all the scams and schemes so many indie authors seem to be pulling all over the Amazon platform, Amazon's probably seeing the page-flip thing and calling it even. This whole industry is a mess.


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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3178 on: May 06, 2017, 05:01:21 PM »

Considering all the scams and schemes so many indie authors seem to be pulling all over the Amazon platform, Amazon's probably seeing the page-flip thing and calling it even. This whole industry is a mess.

But this is not a page-flip problem. This is reading to the end of the book (without page-flip) and then going back to the table of contents at the beginning of the book and exiting from there--in which case the author does not get credit for the whole book pages read. KU is obviously recording only the last page before exit, even if the whole book has been read.


Offline Joseph M. Erhardt

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3179 on: May 06, 2017, 07:55:55 PM »
I am seriously disappointed that, after all this time, the Page-Flip and Exit Point problems appear not to have been addressed.  I keep checking this forum, hoping that someone has posted some happy news.

Alas, not.

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Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3180 on: May 07, 2017, 12:45:15 PM »
I am seriously disappointed that, after all this time, the Page-Flip and Exit Point problems appear not to have been addressed.  I keep checking this forum, hoping that someone has posted some happy news.

Alas, not.


^exactly this^

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Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3181 on: May 07, 2017, 02:29:22 PM »
But this is not a page-flip problem. This is reading to the end of the book (without page-flip) and then going back to the table of contents at the beginning of the book and exiting from there--in which case the author does not get credit for the whole book pages read. KU is obviously recording only the last page before exit, even if the whole book has been read.


Whatever the actual problem is, the point remains, this industry is a mess.


Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3182 on: May 07, 2017, 02:44:47 PM »
Amazon is pulling in floods of new authors and books into KU. I think fixing "minor" problems (compared to those that scam them of $$$) has been pushed far back to the back-burner.

Money first, bug-fixes later. Unfortunately.
 

Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3183 on: May 08, 2017, 11:32:27 AM »
I'm not sure how to tell if your pages read are turning up okay, but I just went through about six months' worth of sales data and noticed CA has only 1 read showing up. This has happened twice so far. Is that normal, something I should be contacting the zon about?

The one page reads could be due to readers just checking to see if the book has downloaded ok, or it could be due to a reader returning to the beginning of the book before exiting. Sometimes a one page read will increase later - and sometimes not.
Going on what has happened previously, I don't think contacting Amazon will do much good, but no harm in trying  ::).

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3184 on: May 08, 2017, 11:45:13 AM »
The one page reads could be due to readers just checking to see if the book has downloaded ok, or it could be due to a reader returning to the beginning of the book before exiting. Sometimes a one page read will increase later - and sometimes not.
Going on what has happened previously, I don't think contacting Amazon will do much good, but no harm in trying  ::).

There are a number of popular authors with clout in KU (e.g. Hugh Howie). Also some trad pubs. Does anyone know if someone with clout has commented or contacted AZ about the Exit Point problem?


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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3185 on: May 08, 2017, 11:59:08 AM »
There are a number of popular authors with clout in KU (e.g. Hugh Howie). Also some trad pubs. Does anyone know if someone with clout has commented or contacted AZ about the Exit Point problem?

If you can manage to read through this lengthy thread you will find that NUMEROUS people have reported it NUMEROUS times with screen shots proof. I had a telephone conversation with a rep and an experiment proved the exit point problem, but unfortunately nothing came of it >:( :(

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Offline IreneP

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3186 on: May 08, 2017, 12:17:05 PM »
But this is not a page-flip problem. This is reading to the end of the book (without page-flip) and then going back to the table of contents at the beginning of the book and exiting from there--in which case the author does not get credit for the whole book pages read. KU is obviously recording only the last page before exit, even if the whole book has been read.

OMG - this is a problem? I do this all the time.

Well, I'm not a subscriber at the moment. But I sort of do this by default because if I open the book again I don't want to be at the end.


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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3187 on: May 08, 2017, 02:32:54 PM »
OMG - this is a problem? I do this all the time.

Well, I'm not a subscriber at the moment. But I sort of do this by default because if I open the book again I don't want to be at the end.

That's why I cancelled my KU subscription. The way I read could very well cost authors page reads. I might skip to the last couple of chapters, read the end (okay, so I sometimes can't stand the suspense), then go back to my bookmark and read up to the last couple of chapters. That could take a huge chunk out of an author's total pages read.



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Offline DanaFraser

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3188 on: May 08, 2017, 04:40:33 PM »
That's why I cancelled my KU subscription. The way I read could very well cost authors page reads. I might skip to the last couple of chapters, read the end (okay, so I sometimes can't stand the suspense), then go back to my bookmark and read up to the last couple of chapters. That could take a huge chunk out of an author's total pages read.

When I was younger and read a ton more, I'd often start in the middle (yeah, skipped the first after maybe the first chapter of figuring out who was who) and read to the end (if it kept me intrigued) then, if I really liked it, go back and read the first half that I had skipped. This was my standard reading protocol for everything other than mysteries. It also made it harder to guess the ending, so I'd be surprised when I got there instead of seeing all the road signs in the first half. Lucky for the KU authors whose books I borrow, I now read front to back.

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3189 on: May 08, 2017, 05:36:58 PM »
If you can manage to read through this lengthy thread you will find that NUMEROUS people have reported it NUMEROUS times with screen shots proof. I had a telephone conversation with a rep and an experiment proved the exit point problem, but unfortunately nothing came of it >:( :(

With all due respect, I don't mean "numerous" people. I mean people with clout, influence, power.


Offline loraininflorida

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3190 on: May 08, 2017, 06:10:52 PM »
As I understand it, the closest Amazon has ever gotten to officially admitting there is a problem is Amazon's statement that Page Flip doesn't have a "material" effect upon authors --but no worries, they'll continue to monitor just in case.

Authors thereupon left KU.

So, Amazon created the Storyteller Contest whose condition of entry is that an author enter a new book into KU.

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3191 on: May 08, 2017, 06:24:25 PM »
As I understand it, the closest Amazon has ever gotten to officially admitting there is a problem is Amazon's statement that Page Flip doesn't have a "material" effect upon authors --but no worries, they'll continue to monitor just in case.

Authors thereupon left KU.

So, Amazon created the Storyteller Contest whose condition of entry is that an author enter a new book into KU.

Maybe it's too easy to assume insidious intent. Maybe it's a matter of them not yet knowing how to fix it. They may have to junk the present KU page read system. But replace it with what? KU is very profitable for many authors. I really don't think AZ wants tp cheat anyone. KU is only a tiny part of their revenue. We all say "fix it" but maybe fixing it is not that easy. A little pressure from some people with influence might help.


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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3192 on: May 08, 2017, 08:33:11 PM »
Maybe it's too easy to assume insidious intent. Maybe it's a matter of them not yet knowing how to fix it. They may have to junk the present KU page read system. But replace it with what? KU is very profitable for many authors. I really don't think AZ wants tp cheat anyone. KU is only a tiny part of their revenue. We all say "fix it" but maybe fixing it is not that easy. A little pressure from some people with influence might help.

Well, if we look at this through the lens of the "law" ... Amazon is letting people read your work without paying you. Technically they are committing a crime, just not one anyone can officially prove. Now, if they said "We're occassionally having issues that fail to record page reads" then people could choose not to enroll. But their stance has always been that there are no problems, which is a fraudulent statement.

Now, if the TOS says "Issues with our system may result in the occasional sale of your product without you being compensated..." and you agree to that, then that's fine.

Everything zon does in insidious from the perspective that they:

1) Are breaking the law (ie. selling your work without paying you - but rest assured they make sure they always get paid)
2) they know this is happening (so it's being done with absolute forethought)
3) Have made no efforts to correct it or acknowledge it is happening (ie. warn authors of their deficiencies)
4) And we can throw onto this the fact that they pay scammers out your royalty pot (essentially passing on their losses to you).

They can do this though because they are a giant multinational company who does not fear the law and who knows that authors have no way of proving anything because only zon has the data. Even if you did amass said proof, good luck suing them.

I'm not saying Amazon is evil, they are simply like any other big company. Their focus is singular, to make money for themselves.

I don't think they are out to rip authors off, but they sure don't care about what to them is pennies around the margin. It may be a HUGE deal for you that you lose some reads, but to them it's utterly irrelevant. So long as their balance sheet is in the black, and they aren't facing any lawsuits or bad publicity, then there's not only no fire, there's not even smoke.


Offline David VanDyke

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3193 on: May 08, 2017, 09:42:54 PM »
Actually, legally, the thing is, they can define a "page read" any way they want to. That's in the contract you sign. So, before you proved they committed fraud, you'd have to prove your (plain) meaning of "page read" is better than theirs.

And remember, innocent until proven guilty. You may know in your gut they're guilty, but before the law, they're innocent.


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Offline loraininflorida

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3194 on: May 08, 2017, 09:54:57 PM »
The contract says it will pay by pages read; a Court, unless challenged by the Plaintiff, would define page reads according to Amazon's KENPC v2.0.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 09:57:35 PM by loraininflorida »

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3195 on: May 08, 2017, 09:59:00 PM »
Amazon is advertising job openings for KDP public relations. The senior position is looking for someone with experience with "issue management" and "crisis communications." They probably want to get ahead of situations like this one.

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/517609

https://www.amazon.jobs/en/jobs/518100




Offline loraininflorida

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3196 on: May 08, 2017, 10:04:10 PM »
It's easy enough to prove the Page Flip thing. Amazon is one class action away from A Really Big Problem.

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3197 on: May 08, 2017, 10:11:36 PM »
It's easy enough to prove the Page Flip thing. Amazon is one class action away from A Really Big Problem.

You're assuming it is a "Really Big Problem". I'm seeing a lot of people conflating 2 seperate issues. Sometimes 1-page reads happen because a reader borrows the book, looks at the first page and realises it isn't something they want to read. When you have a book with a 6 or 7 digit rank then that is going to be way more obvious because you're only seeing one borrow at a time. Certainly pursue legal action if you can prove that Amazon is short changing you on pages read, but make sure its not as simple as lack of visibility or a product issue first. I would expect a book ranked in the millions to have single digit to zero pages read and I'm not sure how it is Amazon's fault if a title lacks visibility (or has other issues) and simply isn't being borrowed/read?

Offline loraininflorida

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3198 on: May 08, 2017, 10:20:59 PM »
An independent lab slaps together some 700 page "book", puts it in KU, "reads" through all its pages in Page Flip, checks the graph which shows only one page read. That's pretty much all the testimony/proof you'd need to convince a Court this is happening to everyone. The sticky wicket would be putting a price tag on it --but that's what courts do. Whether it's a dead baby or page reads not paid, a court has to figure out how much $$ the Defendant has to pay. The day some KU author walks into a large law firm with experience doing class action against large corporations (think the tobacco cases) is the day Amazon's Really Big Problem begins.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 10:31:28 PM by loraininflorida »

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Re: Amazon is intermittently admitting to errors in it's KU page reporting.
« Reply #3199 on: May 08, 2017, 10:34:51 PM »
Actually, legally, the thing is, they can define a "page read" any way they want to. That's in the contract you sign. So, before you proved they committed fraud, you'd have to prove your (plain) meaning of "page read" is better than theirs.

And remember, innocent until proven guilty. You may know in your gut they're guilty, but before the law, they're innocent.

I think it would be a tough sell to the judge to argue that the entire book was just 1 KENP read hehe.

But regardless, it's impossible to prove. The only way zon will ever get their hand slapped for this stuff would be if someone on the inside blew the whistle. And to be honest, I doubt even that would result in anything because I don't think they are actively trying to make this happen. It's more a case of negligence where they'd simply argue they didn't have the resources to try and fix the problem beyond whatever they've already tried.

I'll differ with you on the "innocent until proven guilty" part and raise you "probable cause"  :P

If we were cops there's enough probable cause for us to get a warrant and inspect the data.