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Author Topic: AMS Ads Learning  (Read 115796 times)  

Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #100 on: March 10, 2017, 11:50:47 AM »
294  8)

That's the number I have with a new campaign I just started (just got my first click!).

And here's how the original campaign (same book) after 2+ months looked (now paused so new one can take over):
-- Total keywords: 275
-- with 0 clicks: 150
-- with 0 clicks and Imprs under 100: 95
-- with 0 Imprs (that dash thing): 18

So ~300 feels good to me, and I'll be adding newly discovered keywords as they come up. I'm not too worried about the 150 with no clicks because you never know when/if they start performing. And with low bids, there's little financial risk. But, as before, I'll be adjusting the bids for the active keywords over time. I decided to reverse my strategy from last time and use low bids to start and gradually bring them up; it's easier/faster to raise a smaller number of actives than the other way around. That's my theory anyway. Will see how it plays out.
   
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #101 on: March 10, 2017, 04:07:27 PM »
If you have a lot of keywords, but many are ineffective (or are looking to as such), are those "bad" keywords costing you anything? If no one's clicking on them, they're not costing you money, right?

But do they somehow reduce the effectiveness of the campaigns? Mess with the algorithms? Aside from making room for other keywords (assuming you hit the 1000 limit) is there any real need to disable poor-performing keywords?

Thanks
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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #102 on: March 10, 2017, 04:38:37 PM »
If you have a lot of keywords, but many are ineffective (or are looking to as such), are those "bad" keywords costing you anything? If no one's clicking on them, they're not costing you money, right?

Right. You only pay when there's a Click.

Quote
But do they somehow reduce the effectiveness of the campaigns? Mess with the algorithms? Aside from making room for other keywords (assuming you hit the 1000 limit) is there any real need to disable poor-performing keywords? Thanks

Two possible risks I see:
1. If you have a LOT of poor-performing keywords and are not getting clicks, then supposedly Amazon will shut you down. Hasn't happened to me so don't know what that looks like. And/or... they may reduce the displaying of a poor-performing ad.
2. If you have high bids on poor-performing keywords and they start kicking in, you could be swamped with high Spends. That's one reason I'm starting off my new campaign at low Bids.
   
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Offline Cassie Leigh

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #103 on: March 10, 2017, 05:09:35 PM »
I'm trying one right now using all the keywords that have resulted in a purchase of that title.  55 in total.  So far not looking as impressive as the other two ads I've run on this title.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2017, 05:17:06 PM »
Right. You only pay when there's a Click.

Two possible risks I see:
1. If you have a LOT of poor-performing keywords and are not getting clicks, then supposedly Amazon will shut you down. Hasn't happened to me so don't know what that looks like. And/or... they may reduce the displaying of a poor-performing ad.
2. If you have high bids on poor-performing keywords and they start kicking in, you could be swamped with high Spends. That's one reason I'm starting off my new campaign at low Bids.

Interesting... I'm trying to tweak a bad advert into life. Makes me think I'd be better off stopping that campaign and launching a new one. I wonder, if Amazon was to close down a poor ad, if they flag the book and prevent new campaigns aimed at "bad" books"?
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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2017, 05:19:11 PM »
I'm trying one right now using all the keywords that have resulted in a purchase of that title.  55 in total.  So far not looking as impressive as the other two ads I've run on this title.

1. Give it time.

2. Did you also include Amazon's "suggested keywords"? I've found that they're actually really good even though I was doubtful on some at first.
   
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Offline Cassie Leigh

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #106 on: March 10, 2017, 06:23:13 PM »
Interesting... I'm trying to tweak a bad advert into life. Makes me think I'd be better off stopping that campaign and launching a new one. I wonder, if Amazon was to close down a poor ad, if they flag the book and prevent new campaigns aimed at "bad" books"?

No.  They don't.  I once had them shut down an ad related to my budgeting title that I had targeted at high-end televisions and jewelry.  (I did get a sale off of it, but only had maybe 2 clicks in 30,000 impressions.)  I've since run ads on that book no problem.


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Offline Cassie Leigh

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #107 on: March 10, 2017, 06:27:56 PM »
2. Did you also include Amazon's "suggested keywords"? I've found that they're actually really good even though I was doubtful on some at first.

2. This ad is just to see what happens when I have an ad that only includes the "winners". (My last ad was only those that had zero or no impressions.)  There are a few generic keywords in there that did come from Amazon's suggestions on my original ad (like "edition" and fiction") but most of my successful words are related to authors I've found.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #108 on: March 10, 2017, 07:04:46 PM »
1. If you have a LOT of poor-performing keywords and are not getting clicks, then supposedly Amazon will shut you down. Hasn't happened to me so don't know what that looks like. And/or... they may reduce the displaying of a poor-performing ad.

Yeah, it's the reducing the displaying that is the concern. I don't think anyone really knows if this happens, though there seems to be some general sense that poorly performing ads start seeing their impressions diminish more quickly that well performing ones. And, I'm not even sure how they calculate "poorly performing" since KU reads aren't included and sales ofetn take 3,4,5 days to show up on the dashboard.
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #109 on: March 10, 2017, 07:59:14 PM »
2. This ad is just to see what happens when I have an ad that only includes the "winners". (My last ad was only those that had zero or no impressions.)  There are a few generic keywords in there that did come from Amazon's suggestions on my original ad (like "edition" and fiction") but most of my successful words are related to authors I've found.

Ah, OK. Gotcha. Good test.

Yeah, author names work for me, too (more so than titles by the same authors).
   
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #110 on: March 11, 2017, 04:26:13 PM »
Thanks Harald and everyone. I'm finally starting to get it too. A question: If my CPC bid is .10 and the ACPC is .07 does it make sense to lower or raise the CPC bid? It would seem to make sense to lower it but then I could get a better position if I raise it. And then I could just keep it the same.

An observation: I seem to be doing a lot better with author names than book titles.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #111 on: March 11, 2017, 04:46:27 PM »
Thanks Harald and everyone. I'm finally starting to get it too. A question: If my CPC bid is .10 and the ACPC is .07 does it make sense to lower or raise the CPC bid? It would seem to make sense to lower it but then I could get a better position if I raise it. And then I could just keep it the same.

An observation: I seem to be doing a lot better with author names than book titles.

Yes author names definitely do better.

My goal is to get on the first or second page of ads, not necessarily be the first in line. I like to keep my bids a penny or two below the acpc.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #112 on: March 11, 2017, 05:14:59 PM »
Yeah, it's the reducing the displaying that is the concern. I don't think anyone really knows if this happens, though there seems to be some general sense that poorly performing ads start seeing their impressions diminish more quickly that well performing ones. And, I'm not even sure how they calculate "poorly performing" since KU reads aren't included and sales ofetn take 3,4,5 days to show up on the dashboard.

I think this is true.

I've been running 5 PD ads for March, and while they weren't doing great, they were each netting me between 3-5 clicks per day. For the last week, they have literally not brought in a single click, which doesn't really make sense to me. The budgets aren't even close to spent. I think there's truth to the idea that Amazon essentially stops displaying ads that aren't getting a lot of clicks.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #113 on: March 11, 2017, 06:22:55 PM »
I think this is true.

I've been running 5 PD ads for March, and while they weren't doing great, they were each netting me between 3-5 clicks per day. For the last week, they have literally not brought in a single click, which doesn't really make sense to me. The budgets aren't even close to spent. I think there's truth to the idea that Amazon essentially stops displaying ads that aren't getting a lot of clicks.

Yes, I had an ad that went dead. I paused it for five days and added maybe 30-40 keywords. I enabled it Thursday morning and impressions and clicks have picked up again, along with sales (only one) and page reads for both the original book and the second in series.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #114 on: March 11, 2017, 06:23:50 PM »
I do better with book titles, not author names. It may have to do with genre and bid amount. I write action thrillers and my bids are between 32 and 52 cents. Or it could just be coincidence. The amount of data I have is not large enough that I would draw a conclusion that authors or titles work better in particular.
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #115 on: March 11, 2017, 08:25:59 PM »
Thanks Harald and everyone. I'm finally starting to get it too. A question: If my CPC bid is .10 and the ACPC is .07 does it make sense to lower or raise the CPC bid? It would seem to make sense to lower it but then I could get a better position if I raise it. And then I could just keep it the same.

It seems to be the case that ACPC is always less than half of the CPC bid.  At least in my case.  So it would seem to make sense to increase the bid in an effort to gain more exposure.

But, so far, nobody really knows. 

It's a mystery.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #116 on: March 11, 2017, 08:59:21 PM »
It seems to be the case that ACPC is always less than half of the CPC bid.  At least in my case.  So it would seem to make sense to increase the bid in an effort to gain more exposure....

But in some cases, CPC and ACPC can be very unrelated. I have ACPCs that are 3x higher than my CPC bid because I started bidding high and gradually dropped the bids. The average is still high, so not that useful to me.

Also (for Gregg), don't forget to take into account Sales and ACoS. If a keyword is selling, and your ACoS is low, then there's no reason to drop your bid. Keep it where it is or even go up a little. My theory anyway.
   
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2017, 04:56:57 AM »
I think there's truth to the idea that Amazon essentially stops displaying ads that aren't getting a lot of clicks.

Not just an idea, but fact. Amazon has confirmed that a performance algorithm is at work. They sent this reply to a Kboard member in this topic (Page 18) http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,245230.425.html

"Yes, it is true. If customers did not engage with your ad campaign when there are many impressions (impressions are the number of times your ad was displayed.); but, no clicks for it, your ad may get stopped.

We're unable to provide you with specific numbers or algorithm on how it works. I'm sorry for any inconvenience that has caused.

However, we do actively compare the effectiveness of an ad with other similar ads. We want to ensure that ads are both of interest to our customers and effective to advertisers like you.

In such cases, we highly encourage you to create a new campaign with an eye towards more specific interests and products your potential customers would likely have. Refining your targeting options, ensuring your book's cover, title, and price appeal to customers and adding ratings and reviews to your detail page may help increase the effectiveness and relevance of your ad."




 
 

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2017, 07:37:52 AM »
Not just an idea, but fact. Amazon has confirmed that a performance algorithm is at work. They sent this reply to a Kboard member in this topic (Page 18) http://www.kboards.com/index.php/topic,245230.425.html

"Yes, it is true. If customers did not engage with your ad campaign when there are many impressions (impressions are the number of times your ad was displayed.); but, no clicks for it, your ad may get stopped.

We're unable to provide you with specific numbers or algorithm on how it works. I'm sorry for any inconvenience that has caused.

However, we do actively compare the effectiveness of an ad with other similar ads. We want to ensure that ads are both of interest to our customers and effective to advertisers like you.

In such cases, we highly encourage you to create a new campaign with an eye towards more specific interests and products your potential customers would likely have. Refining your targeting options, ensuring your book's cover, title, and price appeal to customers and adding ratings and reviews to your detail page may help increase the effectiveness and relevance of your ad."


I know they say that, but IMO they do a pretty lousy job at it. I almost NEVER see AMS books of relevant genre in the books I want to target. For the record I currently write WWII historical fiction. I'd make more money than royalties if I can get a dime for every  time I see steamy romance, dark romance (ie kidnap and abuse type romance), sheik romance, in the line of AMS ads for say, a fiction book about the horrors of the Holocaust.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2017, 08:00:55 AM »
Hello friends,

Here is my experience. I have run two campaigns in the past few days and carefully monitored them daily. One of the campaign is a Product Display campaign and I decided to terminate it today. Here is some data.

My book is in the genre of women's fiction / romance. I targeted 50 books similar to my book.

At a $0.50 bid, I was generating about 1,000 daily impressions but almost 0 clicks (1 click here and there once in a while). Average CPC was at $0.39.

I increased the bid with the goal of generating way more impressions and clicks.

At a $1.00 bid, I was generating about 6,500 daily impressions (good), and about 15 daily clicks (good) but conversion was at 0 sales (very bad). Average CPC was at $0.48.

I stopped because even if I generate a sale, this requires way too many clicks and can cost way too much. Even if I start getting 1 sale per day, that sale would cost me $7.20 (at current daily click rate).

I am now running a keyword based campaign and I will report back in the next few days.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #120 on: March 12, 2017, 08:04:54 AM »
Hello friends,

Here is my experience. I have run two campaigns in the past few days and carefully monitored them daily. One of the campaign is a Product Display campaign and I decided to terminate it today. Here is some data.

My book is in the genre of women's fiction / romance. I targeted 50 books similar to my book.

At a $0.50 bid, I was generating about 1,000 daily impressions but almost 0 clicks (1 click here and there once in a while). Average CPC was at $0.39.

I increased the bid with the goal of generating way more impressions and clicks.

At a $1.00 bid, I was generating about 6,500 daily impressions (good), and about 15 daily clicks (good) but conversion was at 0 sales (very bad). Average CPC was at $0.48.

I stopped because even if I generate a sale, this requires way too many clicks and can cost way too much. Even if I start getting 1 sale per day, that sale would cost me $7.20 (at current daily click rate).

I am now running a keyword based campaign and I will report back in the next few days.

$1 a bid! Wow, that's way high. Maybe your genre is very competitive? Can you target your ads with more focus so you can lower the CPC? If you're in a competitive genre, you'll probably have to be more vigilant in tweaking your ad.

Offline Mindflutters

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #121 on: March 12, 2017, 08:11:55 AM »
Great information! I'm coming back to this when I don't have a head cold!
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Offline Cassie Leigh

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #122 on: March 12, 2017, 08:49:33 AM »
$1 a bid! Wow, that's way high. Maybe your genre is very competitive? Can you target your ads with more focus so you can lower the CPC? If you're in a competitive genre, you'll probably have to be more vigilant in tweaking your ad.

Romance is incredibly competitive.  It's why I've stopped running ads for my romances.  I don't have enough of a catalog to justify the cost. botolo's experience matches mine as well.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2017, 09:24:17 AM »
I know they say that, but IMO they do a pretty lousy job at it. I almost NEVER see AMS books of relevant genre in the books I want to target. For the record I currently write WWII historical fiction. I'd make more money than royalties if I can get a dime for every  time I see steamy romance, dark romance (ie kidnap and abuse type romance), sheik romance, in the line of AMS ads for say, a fiction book about the horrors of the Holocaust.

I've noticed this too, and I think the problem for both of us is that we are in smaller sub-genres. Romance is a MASSIVE genre and, even using relevant keywords, like "historical" for a historical romance, they bleed over into smaller genres and subgenres. And romance is so popular, those books probably get a lot of clicks somewhere, and the authors have a higher budget, because you probably have to spend more to get any traction in romance with all the competition.  So, from an algo standpoint - what the 'zon probably sees is that the mainstream titles get WAY more clicks and are therefore more "successful" ads. I'm in a small sub-genre of romance. I do well when I can get placement on books in my same sub-genre. But the ads on those books are dominated by "mainstream" romance books, because the 'zon sees them as getting more clicks overall (guessing). Hopefully the algos will continue to learn and refine they way they view "success" from a standpoint of which books cross-promote well rather than just which books are getting overall more clicks.

Again, I'm just guessing here - but it makes sense that this would be the reason that romance titles  are dominating subcategories where they aren't the best match.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #124 on: March 12, 2017, 11:30:17 AM »
Yes author names definitely do better.

My goal is to get on the first or second page of ads, not necessarily be the first in line. I like to keep my bids a penny or two below the acpc.
Thanks Gertie but I'm not following your thinking on keeping your bids below the acpc. If it took say a .10 bid (and let's say the ACPC was .09) to get impressions and clicks, and I go to .08 cents aren't I going to be shutting myself out?

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