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Author Topic: AMS Ads Learning  (Read 130529 times)  

Offline Gregg Bell

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2017, 11:32:17 AM »
It seems to be the case that ACPC is always less than half of the CPC bid.  At least in my case.  So it would seem to make sense to increase the bid in an effort to gain more exposure.

But, so far, nobody really knows. 

It's a mystery.

Philip

Yeah, that makes more sense to me. If you lower the bid you're getting less exposure.

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Offline Gregg Bell

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2017, 11:34:14 AM »

Also (for Gregg), don't forget to take into account Sales and ACoS. If a keyword is selling, and your ACoS is low, then there's no reason to drop your bid. Keep it where it is or even go up a little. My theory anyway.

Okay. That makes sense too.

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Offline Gregg Bell

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2017, 11:39:25 AM »
I have my book titles as keywords. And I got a click and a sale through that but how does that work? They enter my book title into the Zon search engine. It brings them to my book and then they click on the sponsored ad???

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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2017, 11:50:03 AM »
Thanks Gertie but I'm not following your thinking on keeping your bids below the acpc. If it took say a .10 bid (and let's say the ACPC was .09) to get impressions and clicks, and I go to .08 cents aren't I going to be shutting myself out?

Not necessarily. If your goal is to be the first in line, then underbidding the acpc isn't going to work. But, I feel that being on the first page or even the second on the carousel can get you noticed. The ad I restarted on Thursday had 177 clicks. I now have 200 with two sales and the equivalent of a full book read. For me, that's pretty good.



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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2017, 11:50:55 AM »
I have my book titles as keywords. And I got a click and a sale through that but how does that work? They enter my book title into the Zon search engine. It brings them to my book and then they click on the sponsored ad???

Maybe they saw your other books in the carousel and clicked on that.


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Offline Cassie Leigh

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2017, 12:29:47 PM »
I have my book titles as keywords. And I got a click and a sale through that but how does that work? They enter my book title into the Zon search engine. It brings them to my book and then they click on the sponsored ad???

Remember that these ads also show in search results so it could be that they saw your ad on a search results page and clicked on it there.  Also, your titles don't look like they're so unique that the only option is your book page.  Amazon keyword matching is fuzzy not exact.


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Offline Marian

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #131 on: March 12, 2017, 12:50:00 PM »
Not necessarily. If your goal is to be the first in line, then underbidding the acpc isn't going to work. But, I feel that being on the first page or even the second on the carousel can get you noticed. The ad I restarted on Thursday had 177 clicks. I now have 200 with two sales and the equivalent of a full book read. For me, that's pretty good.



I raise my bids by a few cents to keep them on the first page. When a bid gets too high, I pause it if it doesn't pay for itself in sales. Amazon will keep raising your bids so you have to be watchful.

Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #132 on: March 12, 2017, 02:17:56 PM »
I have my book titles as keywords. And I got a click and a sale through that but how does that work? They enter my book title into the Zon search engine. It brings them to my book and then they click on the sponsored ad???
Keyword ads (aka Sponsored Product ads) appear in both search results and in a row of sponsored results (the "carousel") below Also Boughts on book description pages. As an example, look at the book page for your book "The Find" and you'll see them there. It is my suspicion that overall more fiction readers are going to buy books off the book description page after having arrived there some other way than via search. Popularity Lists, Bestseller lists, also boughts, deals, amazon emails, etc. Therefore, I suspect that a substantial majority of keyword ad clicks and conversions come from people clicking on these sponsored results on book description pages.
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2017, 05:49:59 PM »
Not necessarily. If your goal is to be the first in line, then underbidding the acpc isn't going to work. But, I feel that being on the first page or even the second on the carousel can get you noticed. The ad I restarted on Thursday had 177 clicks. I now have 200 with two sales and the equivalent of a full book read. For me, that's pretty good.



Thanks Gertie. So do you check all your keywords to see what page they're showing up on? Could that not be extremely time consuming?

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Offline Gregg Bell

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #134 on: March 12, 2017, 05:54:22 PM »
Remember that these ads also show in search results so it could be that they saw your ad on a search results page and clicked on it there.  Also, your titles don't look like they're so unique that the only option is your book page.  Amazon keyword matching is fuzzy not exact.
Thanks Cassie. I've just been examining my stuff. I have one book with another book title for the keyword and 27 impressions and that book does not show up in the carousel. I have another book that does not have the same book title as a keyword (but it does have the author's name) and that book of mine has no impressions and no clicks and yet that book shows up on page 25 (of 31) on that book's title.

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Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #135 on: March 12, 2017, 05:55:11 PM »
Thanks Gertie. So do you check all your keywords to see what page they're showing up on? Could that not be extremely time consuming?
I would strongly advise against doing more than spot checking for general sense of positioning. Two different people will likely (though not always) see the book in a different spot in the search results or the carousel). Someone not logged into amazon (no buying history) will see yet again something different.  Basing decisions on only what you see logged in as yourself is missing a good fraction of the picture.
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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #136 on: March 12, 2017, 05:56:05 PM »
Keyword ads (aka Sponsored Product ads) appear in both search results and in a row of sponsored results (the "carousel") below Also Boughts on book description pages. As an example, look at the book page for your book "The Find" and you'll see them there. It is my suspicion that overall more fiction readers are going to buy books off the book description page after having arrived there some other way than via search. Popularity Lists, Bestseller lists, also boughts, deals, amazon emails, etc. Therefore, I suspect that a substantial majority of keyword ad clicks and conversions come from people clicking on these sponsored results on book description pages.

Thanks Edward. Makes sense.

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #137 on: March 12, 2017, 05:58:22 PM »
I would strongly advise against doing more than spot checking for general sense of positioning. Two different people will likely (though not always) see the book in a different spot in the search results or the carousel). Someone not logged into amazon (no buying history) will see yet again something different.  Basing decisions on only what you see logged in as yourself is missing a good fraction of the picture.

Thanks but don't you mean '...strongly advise doing more...'?

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Offline Gregg Bell

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #138 on: March 12, 2017, 06:03:39 PM »
I'm pretty sure I have one of those books that's being shutdowon for lack of impressions/clicks. I'm bidding between .10 and .15 cents on maybe 100 keywords. It's only on two days and has 536 impressions and no clicks. So does Amazon tell you they're shutting you down? What's the best strategy? Just start a new campaign with the same book?

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2017, 06:08:56 PM »
Thanks but don't you mean '...strongly advise doing more...'?
No, I mean don't waste much time checking the positioning of your keyword ads. I might see your ad on page 4 of the carousel and you might see it on page 1. Amazon uses its algorithms to determine how to display ads. So making a decision based on where you see it would be mostly folly. Possibly for books and searches with very few bidders, there would be more consistency from reader to reader, and it might be more useful. But in that case only if you're really getting results. You have to decide whether the time spent doing so is going to get you the sales you need for it to be worth the time. Certainly once you're paying 20 cents or more per click (and likely bidding over 30), it means there are enough bidders out there that the location you see will not be all that consistent across readers.

The way you tell if a keyword is working is looking at impressions and clicks and conversions, with conversions of course being significantly delayed and possibly incomplete. If you're going to raise and lower bids, that's what it should primarily be based on. And I don't have any specific advice on when to raise or lower bids. Like everyone else, I experiment some with it. But I haven't yet seen any "system" of doing it that seems likely to be reliable, despite individuals having had some success with certain systems.
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #140 on: March 12, 2017, 06:16:30 PM »
I would strongly advise against doing more than spot checking for general sense of positioning. Two different people will likely (though not always) see the book in a different spot in the search results or the carousel). Someone not logged into amazon (no buying history) will see yet again something different.  Basing decisions on only what you see logged in as yourself is missing a good fraction of the picture.

Agreed. I'm doing okay with impressions and clicks although sales could be better. Better, always, but still way more than I was doing this time last year. Maybe my system is working?



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Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #141 on: March 12, 2017, 06:20:31 PM »
Agreed. I'm doing okay with impressions and clicks although sales could be better. Better, always, but still way more than I was doing this time last year. Maybe my system is working?

I'm sort of in the same boat. Can't say I really have a "system" yet, though! Doing split testing is so difficult with AMS that it's more a case of muddling along until something works and then trying to keep it working.
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #142 on: March 12, 2017, 06:24:39 PM »
I'm sort of in the same boat. Can't say I really have a "system" yet, though! Doing split testing is so difficult with AMS that it's more a case of muddling along until something works and then trying to keep it working.

I guess I have a basic system but it needs tweaking on a daily basis. I just don't allow myself to put too much time into it. I have three ads running and I try to work on one each day.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #143 on: March 12, 2017, 07:02:09 PM »
I guess I have a basic system but it needs tweaking on a daily basis. I just don't allow myself to put too much time into it. I have three ads running and I try to work on one each day.
I have four keyword ads running, one for each book that I control (I have some others I don't). I also have a variety of Product Display ads, but those are at low bids and have generated zero impressions thus far. I tried a lot of different ads in Feb, but now I am letting them run for longer. I will probably try adding a second ad per book soon, but many people find that this can impact performance of existing ads so I want to be careful.

I download data every day and load it into my database, but I'm still fiddling with a formula for making keyword decisions.
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Offline Decon

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #144 on: March 12, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »
I've not experienced any of my 5 book ads being suspended by amazon and the results vary wildy. I've had the slow down regards impressions, but then they've picked up again.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2017, 12:17:47 AM »
Folks, there are a few basic concepts I'm not getting...

For example, one of my keywords with a bid maximum of 0.15 has 330 impressions and just one click costing 0.06. So I've been asking myself, why bother raising the bid on that word? I haven't come to the maximum spend per click.

Maybe I've figured it out... did my 0.06 come from deep in the Sponsored Product carousel? Do I need to raise my maximum bid (assuming this is a good keyword) to compete for a slot in the first few pages of carousel?

Likewise, some keywords with plenty of impressions but no clicks... okay, maybe the cover art, etc, sucks, but could it also mean my impressions are buried on high-numbered pages? Does someone have to actually view your advert, see it on their browser page, for it to be counted as an Impression? Or can an Impression be buried deep on the carousel and not actually seen, but still gets counted as an Impression?

Maybe I just need to read this thread from start to finish?

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2017, 04:31:41 AM »
I'm pretty sure I have one of those books that's being shutdowon for lack of impressions/clicks. I'm bidding between .10 and .15 cents on maybe 100 keywords. It's only on two days and has 536 impressions and no clicks. So does Amazon tell you they're shutting you down? What's the best strategy? Just start a new campaign with the same book?

1. No, Amazon won't tell you if they're shutting you down. The only way you can tell is when impressions slow/stop. In your situation, however, it's difficult to tell because you didn't say if the impressions had slowed. Did you get most (or all) of the 536 in the first day? Then perhaps so, although I think it's a bit soon for AMS to shut things down. It could be that your bids are too low and you're simply getting buried on the back pages for most of your keywords.

2.  What's the best strategy? Wish I knew. The only thing I could suggest it to raise your bids for a day (or two) to see if it makes a difference. Also, do a search (preferably as an unregistered user) on some of the keywords to see how you're positioned. It could help you to zero in on a good bid price.

3. Start a new campaign? That's what Amazon suggested. I tried it once and it bombed worse than my first one. My best result came when I waited a week before starting it again.

Overall, the wild card is the performance algorithm. AMS won't explain how it works (no surprise), so we're left guessing at what to do in order to keep a campaign effective. To me, it's more like trying to play poker with a deck of cards that constantly changes. You might be holding all four aces, but the other players have better hands - with additional aces.       
 

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2017, 05:11:38 AM »
I have never got even 100% ROI on "Amazon Ads".

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #148 on: March 13, 2017, 06:30:32 AM »

The way you tell if a keyword is working is looking at impressions and clicks and conversions, with conversions of course being significantly delayed and possibly incomplete. If you're going to raise and lower bids, that's what it should primarily be based on. And I don't have any specific advice on when to raise or lower bids. Like everyone else, I experiment some with it. But I haven't yet seen any "system" of doing it that seems likely to be reliable, despite individuals having had some success with certain systems.

I agree. It's difficult to have a "system" with AMS delayed reporting. That said, I've had some success with raising bids for keywords that are getting solid impressions and clicks to keep them on the first page of the carousel. I also monitor bids and pause them when they get too high for my daily budget.

Offline Decon

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #149 on: March 13, 2017, 07:01:17 AM »
Here are some figures. Not sure what to make of them, or how they compare with your own.

                   Impressions          Clicks  % of clicks to imp        sales          % of sales to clicks.     Average Bid cost       ACOS              Keywords

Book one:     905,299               801             0.09%               87 units               10.86%                  $0.08              25.83%                    404 
 
Book two:     765,997               355             0.05%               20 units                 5.63%                  $0.06              38.36%                    687

Book three:   749,453               337             0.04%               21 units                 6.23%                  $0.07              36.84%                    476

Book four:    529,227               279             0.05%               21 units                 7.53%                  $0.06              24.88%                    471

Book five      351,449              281              0.08%               14 units                 4.98%                  $0.03              22.15%                    354

================================================================================
TOTALS      3,301,425           2,053             0.06%                184 units                 8.96%                   ????              25.00%


Note: I haven't ever stopped any of my ads and started them again as new ads, I have only paused them if I had a promo for say 1 day, and impressions have kicked off again when released back on sale.I have however, increased/reduced bids, and added or removed keywords, but basically I just now let it run and have done for some time. I understand the more data they have, the more likely they are to keep on giving impressions (to a point)

The only thing I have noticed is that if I run a free day promo and end up with sales giving me a better rank, I also seem to pick up sales on my AMS for that book, but once the rank falls back, sales are few and far between on AMS.

Also my book that has had most sales organically without ads, has picked up the most sales on AMS. So I'm thinking rank has something to do with clicks converting to sales in the reader's mind. At the moment it doesn't have a good rank and sales are slow for it on AMS, yet impressions soldier on.

I don't hold with the idea that they stop impressions forever if the don't produce clicks. Okay, they put a temp hold on it a week or so into a new ad and intermittenly after that while they assess the data, I've experienced that. I have one with over 5,000 clicks on a Stephen King book and no clicks, but I still keep getting impressions. I have many more examples like this.

The other thing I note is that book 2 & 3 aren't performing as well as book one, yet the impressions which were well down on book 1 (as much as 50% down) are fast catching up with that book. So that debunks the idea that they stop poorer performing ads, unless they only stop those with a rank bad ACOS that makes a loss to save us from ourselves.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 08:20:36 AM by Decon »


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