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Author Topic: AMS Ads Learning  (Read 134096 times)  

Offline The Bass Bagwhan

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2017, 07:22:52 PM »
Don't be afraid of those broad keywords. I had my best sales on one ad from "women" which was one of the Amazon suggested keywords.



Thanks for this, I'll definitely include them. My plan is to figure out my own "special" keywords then pick the eyes out of the Amazon suggestions, which I'm expecting will include those broad references. Cheers.
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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2017, 09:48:13 PM »
Don't be afraid of those broad keywords. I had my best sales on one ad from "women" which was one of the Amazon suggested keywords.

Strange thing about this for me... In my initial Amazon suggestions was the keyword "fiction." I laughed and almost deleted it because it seemed so broad as to be useless. Well, guess what? After 6 weeks in on my main AMS campaign, "fiction" is a top seller! Who knew? (Amazon, I guess) (Of course, now all of you will start using it and competing with me for clicks, but that's OK, I don't mind :)
   
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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2017, 09:58:15 PM »
... Harald's right, I can see myself getting hooked on tweaking my AMS ads.

Yep, it's addicting. One of my original author names wasn't doing much, and I was disappointed. But over the last week, he's shot up into the Top Five. I got a thrill out of watching him move up the Sales list. I was cheering him on!

Quote
The blurb is a very important, but kind of finite factor. Whereas thinking up really good keywords threatens to keep me awake at night. I can't imagine how you cooked up 225!

Ha ha... see above about being addicted.

I'm well over 250 keywords now. They just keep popping up, and I add them. But my original comment at the top of this thread is still holding: on the whole, author names are doing better than book titles by those same authors (for me). But I still include both.
   
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2017, 06:48:39 AM »
Strange thing about this for me... In my initial Amazon suggestions was the keyword "fiction." I laughed and almost deleted it because it seemed so broad as to be useless. Well, guess what? After 6 weeks in on my main AMS campaign, "fiction" is a top seller! Who knew? (Amazon, I guess) (Of course, now all of you will start using it and competing with me for clicks, but that's OK, I don't mind :)

Yup, I've got "fiction" too. How about "book"? Amazon suggested that one, too. I've learned to trust their keywords.


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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2017, 07:02:23 AM »
I finally maxed out my keywords at 1,000, but I'm not ready to add a second campaign.

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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2017, 07:14:45 AM »
I finally maxed out my keywords at 1,000, but I'm not ready to add a second campaign.

Congrats! I think the most I have on any one campaign is 289.


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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2017, 08:14:15 AM »
Yup, I've got "fiction" too. How about "book"? Amazon suggested that one, too. I've learned to trust their keywords.

I thought about that one, too. They didn't suggest it but might try. How much broader can we go? "life"? "read"?  ;)
   
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2017, 11:22:12 AM »
I thought about that one, too. They didn't suggest it but might try. How much broader can we go? "life"? "read"?  ;)

My favorite Amazon suggestion ... 1+1 ... no idea.


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Offline Christopher Bunn

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2017, 12:39:59 PM »
My favorite Amazon suggestion ... 1+1 ... no idea.

That's pretty mysterious. Maybe the universe is somehow trying to communicate with you via Amazon?

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Offline SC

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2017, 12:49:44 PM »
What kind of bid per click do you guys think is a good, effective (but not expensive) one?

And I've seen some people do a budget-per-day thing, but the only option I saw when I tried was total budget, and the minimum you could enter was $100.

Offline APeter

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2017, 01:03:56 PM »
When you click on Create A New Ad Campaign, you're presented with two options.

You'll need to click on the SPONSORED PRODUCT, not the PRODUCT DISPLAY ADS

Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2017, 01:28:51 PM »
What kind of bid per click do you guys think is a good, effective (but not expensive) one?

I made the mistake of accepting Zon's $0.25 at first. My sweet spot currently is between 0.05-0.10. YMMV.
   
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Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2017, 05:42:11 PM »
There is so much to the topic but I'll make two quick observations:

-Most people I have read about who are making significant positive RoI (let's say over $5 per day profit) are paying between 15 cents and 25 cents per click. To achieve this you need to bid between 20 and 40 cents. Yes, there are exceptions so experimentation makes sense. But very few people manage to hit even a $5 per day spend bidding ten cents per click.

-ACos is. . not completely useless but close to it. Here's why:
--The reasons already stated in this thread, page reads, list signups, sell-throughs, etc.
--As per Amazon's own KDP page on ads, it can take weeks for sales to show up. You certainly can't make week to week decisions based on it unless 20% of your sales being missing won't change your decision
--Possibly not every sale will show up even weeks later.  I am not the only one to experience this. I started ads on 2/3 for 2 books which hadn't had any sales in several months. I got 13 sales in KDP in a week but the campaigns are still showing only 10 of them and I ended the campaigns a week ago.

I could go into all the things I am experimenting with, but I'm pretty sure most of it won't work. When I find something that does, I will be sure to post. I am essentially breaking even this month and I'm fine with that. Even sold one PB via AMS ads!
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2017, 06:57:32 PM »
I made the mistake of accepting Zon's $0.25 at first. My sweet spot currently is between 0.05-0.10. YMMV.

I think your genre is less competitive than my romance genre and you can bid lower. I started out at .10 and did nothing. Now, every keyword is a different bid based on the average bid per click for that keyword. I bid a few cents less than the average. I want to be on the first or second page, not necessarily at the front of the line.

There is so much to the topic but I'll make two quick observations:

-Most people I have read about who are making significant positive RoI (let's say over $5 per day profit) are paying between 15 cents and 25 cents per click. To achieve this you need to bid between 20 and 40 cents. Yes, there are exceptions so experimentation makes sense. But very few people manage to hit even a $5 per day spend bidding ten cents per click.

-ACos is. . not completely useless but close to it. Here's why:
--The reasons already stated in this thread, page reads, list signups, sell-throughs, etc.
--As per Amazon's own KDP page on ads, it can take weeks for sales to show up. You certainly can't make week to week decisions based on it unless 20% of your sales being missing won't change your decision
--Possibly not every sale will show up even weeks later.  I am not the only one to experience this. I started ads on 2/3 for 2 books which hadn't had any sales in several months. I got 13 sales in KDP in a week but the campaigns are still showing only 10 of them and I ended the campaigns a week ago.

I could go into all the things I am experimenting with, but I'm pretty sure most of it won't work. When I find something that does, I will be sure to post. I am essentially breaking even this month and I'm fine with that. Even sold one PB via AMS ads!

I definitely agree about ACOS being pretty useless. I think ACOS per keyword is marginally more helpful than overall ACOS. I go by what's on my dashboard plus audiobooks against what I've spent.



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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2017, 07:11:32 PM »
I think your genre is less competitive than my romance genre and you can bid lower. I started out at .10 and did nothing. Now, every keyword is a different bid based on the average bid per click for that keyword. I bid a few cents less than the average. I want to be on the first or second page, not necessarily at the front of the line.

Oh yeah, my genre (historical fiction) is way less competitive than Romance. And genre does make a difference on bidding, which is why I gave a "YMMV" on last post. My top kwd sellers (multiple sales) have ACPCs between $0.05 and $0.09.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 07:28:55 PM by Harald »
   
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Offline Steven Kelliher

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2017, 07:29:58 PM »
Along the same lines of those talking about ACoS being (somewhat) useless, I've kind of been going more by sales rank improvement (or lack thereof) since launching my ads.

I've only been doing AMS ads in terms of promotion for the last week, and my sales rank has gone from about 32k to 13k in that time, while the ACoS data would suggest a FAR smaller increase in ranking.

Just something to consider.

BTW, does anyone know if KU pagereads improve sales rank? Or is it only sales?

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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2017, 08:43:57 PM »
Along the same lines of those talking about ACoS being (somewhat) useless, I've kind of been going more by sales rank improvement (or lack thereof) since launching my ads. I've only been doing AMS ads in terms of promotion for the last week, and my sales rank has gone from about 32k to 13k in that time, while the ACoS data would suggest a FAR smaller increase in ranking. Just something to consider. BTW, does anyone know if KU pagereads improve sales rank? Or is it only sales?

There are many things outside of AMS that can affect your sales rank. You ask about KU/KENP page reads. Every KU Borrow counts as a type of sale and boosts your sales rank (not sure if # of pages read impacts this). BTW, my reads went up 700%+ after starting AMS ads; not that high now but still above the pre-AMS baseline. So for me, AMS ties into KENP reads which ties into Sales Rank (although not exclusively).
   
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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2017, 09:04:59 PM »
... -ACos is. . not completely useless but close to it. Here's why:
--The reasons already stated in this thread, page reads, list signups, sell-throughs, etc.
--As per Amazon's own KDP page on ads, it can take weeks for sales to show up. You certainly can't make week to week decisions based on it unless 20% of your sales being missing won't change your decision
--Possibly not every sale will show up even weeks later.  I am not the only one to experience this. I started ads on 2/3 for 2 books which hadn't had any sales in several months. I got 13 sales in KDP in a week but the campaigns are still showing only 10 of them and I ended the campaigns a week ago...

Gotta disagree a bit. I'm now 6+ weeks into AMS for my main ($0.99) series funnel book (same campaign I started with). I'm really not seeing AMS delays longer than 2-3 days. In fact, Amazon says right at the top of the Campaign Metrics screen: "Campaign metrics may take up to 3 days to appear and do not include Kindle Unlimited or Kindle Lending Library royalties generated by the ad." That's what I'm currently seeing.

I find ACoS useful, especially over the long term. Example: I'm looking at my first page with ACoS sorted top to bottom. Looking across all the columns, I see two keywords that are over 100%. I've already lowered their bids to the minimum $0.02 (they started much higher and those Spends are already booked), and they're still racking up Spends but with paltry Sales. Meaning: they're not pulling their weight. The only thing left to do is pause them. 

On the other end, I've got somewhat obscure Author Names that are selling with ACoSes in the 5-8% range (they're obscure in the overall genre but not in the narrow categories I'm aiming at). Those are worth increasing bids on because if those readers see my ad, there's a decent chance they'll click and then buy.

All this is easily seen when comparing the ACoS with other columns with the caveat of taking into account any system/reporting delays. But if you take the long view (weeks/months), it makes sense to me.
   
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Offline BVLawson

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2017, 08:01:15 AM »
Harald, I am envious of your success and those of others. But I'm still finding a very quirky reporting scheme with my ads, and I've tried several different Sponsored Ads with various keyboards,  bids, budgets, etc. For example, on a book that has been out for two weeks, AMS says I had one click on a keyword that resulted in sales of $25. That is impossible (unless they're suggesting that one clicker went on to purchase multiple copies of this one book). I also just started up a new book/new ad a few days ago with the same keywords/budget/genre/targeting as with a previous ad. For some reason, AMS maxes out my little $5/day budget every morning within a couple of hours, but on this one ad only. But none of the rest have ever done this. Why this one ad? I have no idea.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 08:02:48 AM by BVLawson »


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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2017, 11:35:59 AM »
Harald, I am envious of your success and those of others. But I'm still finding a very quirky reporting scheme with my ads, and I've tried several different Sponsored Ads with various keyboards,  bids, budgets, etc. For example, on a book that has been out for two weeks, AMS says I had one click on a keyword that resulted in sales of $25. That is impossible (unless they're suggesting that one clicker went on to purchase multiple copies of this one book). I also just started up a new book/new ad a few days ago with the same keywords/budget/genre/targeting as with a previous ad. For some reason, AMS maxes out my little $5/day budget every morning within a couple of hours, but on this one ad only. But none of the rest have ever done this. Why this one ad? I have no idea.

Well, I'm not immune to AMS glitches either, e.g., getting Sales with 0 Clicks. But I haven't heard of 1 Click = $25 before! Guess that's a good glitch, eh?

One thought about maxing out your daily budget: maybe because it's a new campaign and the Zon is at the moment showing it a lot? Who knows. Maybe we should record all the AMS Strange Things here.
   
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Offline SC

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2017, 03:53:33 PM »
When you click on Create A New Ad Campaign, you're presented with two options.

You'll need to click on the SPONSORED PRODUCT, not the PRODUCT DISPLAY ADS

It seems like everyone is talking about Sponsored Product ads. Is there a reason no one seems to be doing product display ads?

Offline APeter

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2017, 07:42:14 AM »
I've tried both methods.

From my perspective, Product Display Ads cost more and the ROI is substantially less. But with Sponsored Ads, you're better able to fine tune your campaign and control your expenditures. And the ROI is much better.

Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2017, 08:51:12 AM »
I've tried both methods.
From my perspective, Product Display Ads cost more and the ROI is substantially less. But with Sponsored Ads, you're better able to fine tune your campaign and control your expenditures. And the ROI is much better.

This is exactly what I heard multiple times when I researched AMS at the start, and why I went with Sponsored Product ads. It seemed the easiest/lowest-cost way to start. To me.
   
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Offline Harald

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2017, 09:15:13 PM »
Hi all. I'm the original poster, and here's an update after 2 months continuously running my intro-to-series book with an AMS ad. Keep in mind that my results may (probably will) be different than yours.

Book: "1609" (Book 1 of The Manhattan Series)
Length: short! It was 100 pages but now Zon has inexplicably increased it to 141 pages after I updated the cover; no idea why.
Price: $0.99, series intro (no change during 2-month AMS period)
Exclusivity: KDP Select/KU throughout the 2-month AMS period
AMS Type: Sponsored Product
Daily Budget: $1
Targeting: Manual (keywords updating)

Here's a quick Before and After looking at the Campaign view:



Campaign Thoughts:

* You'll see above that I stopped the "1612" campaign after one month. I was just spending too much money for the return; wasn't getting the click-to-sales conversions. Maybe because it was Book 2 of the series? At triple the price of Book 1? And I had "booked" so much in Spend amount that it would probably not turn itself around; in fact, you can see clearly in the ACoS columns that it was going in the wrong direction. So I stopped it and focused on the series intro book ("1609").

* The big news (and something I worked diligently at) is that the campaign ACoS for "1609" dropped from 113% to 51%. Some people say that this metric isn't important but I disagree. The average ACoS shows in a quick glance where the Spend-to-Sales ratio is (if you allow for enough time to pass). Admittedly, the individual keyword ACoSes are even more important, but this one is valuable, too.

I had to work hard on getting this ACoS down to less than half of what it was. This was accomplished by incrementally adjusting all the active keywords, mostly adjusting them DOWN ($0.04-$0.09 was the best range, with some high-sellers bidding in the very low teens). In my genre (historical fiction), I got 3k-4k Impressions per day, always some Clicks per day, and 0-3 Sales per day, and I NEVER hit my $1 daily budget (usually half that) once I dropped my Bids. This created a nice, low-budget trickle effect with the following results over the 2 month campaign:
-- 638 Impressions per Click
-- 9.2 Clicks per Sale

* On the surface, you might think that a 51% ACoS is losing money (at 35% royalty), but in my case, you'd be wrong. The main reason is that my KU reads were still high compared to the baseline before I started the campaign. And with this .99 book, Reads are worth equal or more than outright Sales. Although it's hard to know exactly how many Reads were a result of the AMS campaign versus organically, here's how the Reads chart looks for 90 days:



* Then there are the other soft benefits that are also hard to quantify, but that nevertheless add to the ROI picture with AMS (in my view):
-- Sales bump from every KU borrow.
-- Increased visibility with extra exposures of book. Here's how this ad looks recently on Page 1 of a high-selling comparable book (and yes, I got AMS Sales from this ad placement):



What's Next?

* I may create a new "1609" ad with an updated blurb and restart. Not sure if I'll keep this one going simultaneously.
***3/10/17 UPDATE: have started a new campaign for same book and paused this one

* I might create a 3-book series AMS ad. Amazon has given me the OK for doing this as the series has its own SKU (product page). It's worth a try.
***3/8/17 UPDATE: Amazon says: no dice on doing a Series AMS ad. Sad!

Your comments welcome.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 08:18:32 PM by Harald »
   
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Online Philip Gibson

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Re: AMS Ads Learning
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2017, 06:59:36 AM »

* I might create a 3-book series AMS ad. Amazon has given me the OK for doing this as the series has its own SKU (product page). It's worth a try.

Your comments welcome.

That sounds interesting, Harald.  How would it work?  Would the thumbnail sponsored product ad show all three books like it appears on left of the series page?

What if there had been social media during important historical events?
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