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AMS Ads Learning

209K views 2K replies 145 participants last post by  CassieL 
#1 ·
***ALERT: long initial post***
+ NOTE: all kinds of interesting info in the pages below. Just a few guideposts:
-- My 2-month update: Message #73, bottom Page 3
-- Discussion about creating a Series ad (no can do!) starts on Page 4
-- Discussion about scaling up by increasing daily budget starts on Page 7
-- Discussion about running simultaneous ads and testing ad copy around Page 13
-- Discussion about running ads for non-first-in-series books starts bottom of Page 15
-- Discussion about Sequential ad copy testing (with my 7-day test results) starts on Page 16
-- Discussion about Previewing your ad starts on Page 18
-- Discussion: "What's an Impression?" starts on Page 18 -19
-- My 3rd Sequential ad copy testing report starts on Page 19, Message #460
-- Slowing of AMS effectiveness? Start reading Page 22-23
-- My 1-month update on latest ad copy change: Message #591, Page 24
-- AMS Account Mgr input starts at bottom of Page 25
-- Automatic vs. Manual Targeting discussion starts bottom of Page 27
-- My 99-day update on latest ad copy change: Message #1354, Page 55

* Introduction: As a relatively new indie-self-publishing author, I've learned a lot here in the Kboards Writer's Cafe while preparing my fiction writing debut, so I'd like to offer some thoughts about my recent (14 days in) experience with AMS ads. I was between books and decided to spend some marketing time on AMS. This thread can go on as long as needed, and I'll be adding updates when I can. Feel free to add your own ideas and answer questions raised (including mine) or pose new ones that relate to AMS Ad Learning.

* Where I'm coming from: I may be different from many reading this, so keep that in mind. I'm doing a novella series in Historical Fiction; early 17th century time period with New York City/Manhattan as the focus setting. Genre surely influences AMS ad performance so filter as needed. Two short books (novellas) are now out (both in KDP Select/KU); the third is releasing soon. I wanted to start AMS ads with the release of Book 2 ("1612") at its discounted price ($0.99 from $2.99) and carefully studied what I could and could not say about price in the ad, but Zon still rejected it. Rather than argue with them, I just re-submitted the ad without any price mentions and made sure the book detail page had all that verbiage. Then I quickly created and launched my AMS ad campaign for Book 1 ("1609"), which I'm keeping at a low $0.99 as a funnel into the series. Then I changed the copy of Book 2 and started a new campaign for that, eventually raising its price back to $2.99. Got it? :) I'll focus here on Book 1, which has a longer run (14+ days for this post) but throw in some info from Book 2 as well.

* My AMS Setup:
Type: Sponsored Product; avg Daily Budget: $1.00; Targeting: Manual

Here's what I've learned after 14 days...


ABOVE: January 16 - 10 days of Book 1

ABOVE: January 20 - 14 days of Book 1

* Dashboard Delays: My initial routine was to view and record the single-line campaign stats (charts above) to get familiar with the workings of the system: 11:00am, 5:00pm, and 11:00pm each day (have now backed off to twice a day). AMS says right on the Dashboard: "Campaign metrics may take up to 3 days to appear..." My delays seem to be around 2 days, primarily in the Sales column. Well, that kinda makes things hard to measure, especially if some things are updating while others are not within the same campaign. For example, I noticed I would sometimes see new Sales but NO new Clicks. Huh? Assuming that AMS is only tracking sales within the AMS ecosystem, which it states it is, this doesn't make sense UNLESS it's explained by different metrics (dashboard columns) lagging others within the same campaign. Then I also noticed sales showing on my campaign line but NOT showing in the Sales column in the Keyword tab page. Then 1-2 hours later, there they'd be! So all this tells me I can't rush this stuff; gotta play the long game.

* Keywords ("KWD"): An important subject for this AMS ad business. I started off with about 25 KWDs but soon ratcheted that up to 225. Some recommend filling all 1,000 available slots, but that seems unwieldy, especially when so many end up doing nothing. Of course, if I see new KWDs with potential, I'll add them.

The following is based on viewing the detailed "Keywords" tab in the campaign: (see chart below)

* CPC Bidding: Because I didn't know anything, and because Amazon's suggested bidding amount was $0.25, I just went with that. But over time and with learning, I began pulling many of those bids down lower and lower. Why? One reason was because I was hitting my $1 Daily Budget too early in the day (sometimes in a couple of hours), and I wanted to track full days. Also, most of the daily budget was being drained by Clicks that didn't go anywhere, i.e., no Sales. Moving forward with new campaigns, I might take the opposite approach: Start all at minimum bids ($0.02) and ratchet them UP over time.
NOTE: the "day" for AMS is supposed to be midnight YOUR local time, but I noticed that was usually later in the middle of my night. Then I received an email from Amazon stating that the "ad day" begins at 12:01 AM Pacific Standard Time (GMT-8), which is 3:00AM in the morning for me on New York time, so that explains that.

* Impressions: I don't really care about Impressions as long as I'm getting some, and they started immediately and usually increase by several thousands each day, with the exception noted below. It's easy to get loads of impressions by just adding big, generic keywords ("unlimited," "books," "Kindle") but that's a waste effort in my opinion. But there was one exception to this idea: the keyword "fiction," which Amazon suggested in its initial grouping. I was skeptical, and it only got 1,339 Impressions in 14 days (and three clicks), but I've already gotten one sale out of it. FYI: Just for the heck of it, I even threw in "Trump" as a Keyword along the way and within days, his Impressions were beating out many of my genre's author names. But with little relevance (although he is based in Manhattan, which is my primary setting, so there actually is some relevance, if far-fetched), the Clicks are still at 0 for Prez Trump, but with a $0.02 Bid, it's an inexpensive experiment.

One anomaly with Impressions in my 14 days was the six times that the Impressions DROPPED, usually at the end of the day, and mostly after the Daily Budget had been spent. How can this be? ***Anybody know??? UPDATE: Just re-checked and it was always after the Budget was spent. So I can see the algo freezing the Impressions but not taking them away. Still curious.

* Clicks: I check the Clicks column regularly, sorting from top to bottom, and make note of any new "top clicks" (3 or above) and adjust the CPC bid according to my bidding strategy below. FYI: it was 23 Clicks to the first Sale on both books, and both occurred on Day 3 of their respective campaigns. Interesting, eh? Wonder if that included a 2-day delay in Sales reporting?

* CTR (Click-Through Ratio: Clicks / Impressions): CTR isn't even on the AMS chart and doesn't interest me much, mainly because it doesn't take into account off-relevance KWDs or ad placement. Besides, it's easy enough to see at a glance by sorting the Imps column and looking at the Clicks next door.

* ACPC (Average Cost Per Click): Best viewed per KWD on the column breakout page. Doesn't mean much if you have only 1 click, but when click numbers (per KWD) go up, it's a helpful metric for adjusting the CPC Bid.

* Spend: Self-evident. Also sortable by clicking on the top of the column.

* Sales: An important column to sort to see how the metrics are relating. But there is that 1-2-3-day delay to deal with.

* ACoS (Average Cost of Sales): Very important, but even more important are the ACoS numbers PER KWD. Those are what I spent time looking at and how I came up with my personal Bidding Rules (see at bottom).


ABOVE (partial view): "1609" - Jan 16 - 10 days in

ABOVE (partial view): "1609" - Jan 20 - 14 days in

* ROI: The Return on Investment for the AMS ads is more complicated than it seems. For me, it's not an obvious: "So, did the ad campaign have an ACoS that's under the royalty rate of the book?" In theory, if you're over the ACoS, you're losing money. But that's just a surface view of the situation (to me). Why? Because there are follow-on benefits that enter the equation. Like:

1. KENP Reads in KU. Especially with a $0.99 book, this is a significant % of revenue. And my Reads of Book 1 definitely went up when AMS ads started running (see chart below). In fact, the Reads during the 14-day AMS period were more than 7 TIMES (754%) the Reads in the 14 days prior to the ad starting. Or, put another way, that's an *additional* 76% of the revenue from Reads *after* the AMS ad starting running.


ABOVE: a 754% increase in Reads after AMS ad started running.

2. Sales Rank bump from KU "borrows" (did you know that a borrow counts as a sale?). And there are probably some additional "organic" sales from a higher Sales Rank.

3. Undefined increase in "visibility" when ads are running, and especially when showing up on Page 1 of Sponsored Products as mine did early. Again, more visibility *could* result in more sales. Hasn't really worked out that way when I relaunched "1612" with a price increased to $2.99. (NOTE: "1612" is selling at the higher price, but just not through AMS)


ABOVE: Book 2 appears on Sponsored pages of Book 1

4. NOTE that I'm not doing Audiobooks or print books (yet), which would add to the complexity--and richness--of the ROI.

* KWD Types: For me (in my HF genre), besides the obvious content KWDs ("historical fiction"), the biggest Clickers and resulting Sales were the names of related authors. Not as much the book titles but the big or selling author names in my genre: James Michener, Ken Follett, et al. Which tells me that readers are searching for both Content and Author relevance (and Relevance is what the AMS ad system is mostly about).

My Current KWD Bid Strategy:
-- If a KWD's ACoS is under the book's royalty % *and selling*, I'll raise the bid slightly (1-3 cents) to see if I can pick up some more sales. If it's an author that seems a perfect fit and *should* be selling more, I'll go up a little more to give her more of a better shot.
-- If a KWD's ACoS is over the royalty % but under 100% (35% royalty) or 140% (70% royalty), I'll match the ACPC. Unless it's a category or an author who's perfect and then I'll increase the bid 1-3 cents more.
-- If a KWD's ACoS is over the 100% or 140% (only one instance so far), I'll start dropping the bid and watching closely.
-- I'll be updating these "rules" over time as I learn more. If anyone wants to submit their own formulas or rules about this, feel free to chime in.

THE BOTTOM LINE: With a current 84% overall ACoS on my $0.99 Book 1 of the novella series, I'm going to keep that AMS campaign running. However, I may tweak the copy, which means submitting a new ad and starting my tracking all over again. Book 2, with a current 237% campaign ACoS is not doing nearly as well (although still selling + KENP reading outside of AMS). I may pause it, or I may just let it run as the Spend is not costing me much. Maybe best to keep an eye on Book 2 while Book 3 in the series soon launches, then revisit.
3/18/17 UPDATE: Paused this campaign after 2 months and getting the overall ACoS down to 52.20%; rebooted campaign with different Bid strategy for a week, then rebooted that (for a blurb change); see more below.

How much trouble is all this? Not really that much. For me, while it did take time at the start to understand and set it all up, I found that tracking and tweaking things--especially keywords and bids--is no trouble at all; just a few minutes a day. And it's actually kinda fun! It's now just part of my daily routine: check the dashboard each day to see what's changed and make adjustments accordingly. Try it! You may just get hooked. And sell some books in the process.

I hope this is helpful to others thinking about AMS ads.

P.S. Feel free to contribute your own findings, thoughts, or questions about AMS ads.
 
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#929 ·
I have my bid set at $1 for the 'crime fiction' keyword for the crime/noir novel that I published May 28. If I open an incognito/private browsing window (so I'm not logged into amazon and no cached cookies or other info can prejudice the results) and go to amazon.com and search on crime fiction in the books category, my book shows up on page 12 of the carousel.

Is that about what you experienced folks would expect for what I assume is a highly competitive keyword?

What do you estimate it would take in terms of a bid to get to page one? I'm currently just experimenting, I don't want to invest a lot until I have books two and three in the series available.
 
#930 ·
Alvina said:
Due to dismal sales, I decided to try out AMS Ads - Sponsored Product yesterday!

However, I've submitted my ads for almost 24 hours but it still haven't got their approval... :(
Usually my ads are approved in less than 12 hours, but I just had one that took about 30 hours to get approved. Submitted at 8 pm on Tuesday and was only approved early this morning so they were definitely slower than normal.
 
#931 ·
BillyDeCarlo said:
I have my bid set at $1 for the 'crime fiction' keyword for the crime/noir novel that I published May 28. If I open an incognito/private browsing window (so I'm not logged into amazon and no cached cookies or other info can prejudice the results) and go to amazon.com and search on crime fiction in the books category, my book shows up on page 12 of the carousel.

Is that about what you experienced folks would expect for what I assume is a highly competitive keyword?

What do you estimate it would take in terms of a bid to get to page one? I'm currently just experimenting, I don't want to invest a lot until I have books two and three in the series available.
I don't actually look for my books on the carousel but when I'm poking around in other's books I usually see my books in the 1, 2, or 3 slot on the first page of the carousel and I bid lower than that most of the time. Still higher than most here, but lower than that. This is for fantasy, though, so it's possible it's a less competitive category than crime fiction. But even in romance I don't normally bid that high and I'm getting clicks on that book, too, so it could be Amazon has decided your book isn't a good fit for that word and is prioritizing others over you since it's not all just pure bidding that determines placement.
 
#932 ·
Cassie Leigh said:
I don't actually look for my books on the carousel but when I'm poking around in other's books I usually see my books in the 1, 2, or 3 slot on the first page of the carousel and I bid lower than that most of the time. Still higher than most here, but lower than that. This is for fantasy, though, so it's possible it's a less competitive category than crime fiction. But even in romance I don't normally bid that high and I'm getting clicks on that book, too, so it could be Amazon has decided your book isn't a good fit for that word and is prioritizing others over you since it's not all just pure bidding that determines placement.
Actually, I forgot to mention that I when I searched on crime fiction I also clicked 4 stars and above and releases within 30 days, so otherwise I'd be much farther down than page 12! I think you're right - there are definitely other factors at play then, I assume that being current sales, other titles by the author, how well the author sells (nada since it's a brand new pen name), etc. I think this provides some insight to those who are trying to crack the algorithm.
 
#933 ·
LilyBLily said:
Maybe I'm worrying over nothing. I just don't like the way June is shaping up.

My lead ad, the one that sells all the other fiction, averages 1 click per 389 impressions. In the last week alone, it has gained over 100k impressions. It has run out of daily budget maybe twice over seven months, and slowly over time I raised the budget to $15. It has never used that up. I believe raising my bids on the best-producing keywords accelerated impressions and clicks, but my data on the keyword bids over time are spotty. Also, my head hurts after spending an hour trying to make sense of them.

There is no way I can know which keyword produces more KU reads than outright sales. If that actually happens. Perhaps someone who sells at a much higher daily level might know if in most cases the sales match or exceed the page reads. Given that, I don't know whether to dump certain keywords, or raise my bids on them, or lower them.
I'm dealing with this with my romance ad because I'm probably 75% borrows on it which isn't my norm. What I've decided to do is not to pause any keywords other than the ones that aren't getting clicks. So, for example, I had one author keyword that had something like 19,000 impressions and no clicks, so I paused that one. I basically pause at about 1,800 impressions and no clicks because, as you've noticed, romance tends to click more than other genres.

For the other keywords, if I get past a certain number of clicks and don't see a buy or that author in my also-boughts then I lower the bid in favor of books where I am seeing buys. But I don't shut it down.

This is for an ad that I've been starting at $10 every morning and has maxed out as high as $60 on a given day for the last three weeks with sales/borrows to pay for it. I will add that yesterday my ranks didn't drop but it was an extremely slow day compared to the day before for both my fantasy and romance titles.
 
#934 ·
BillyDeCarlo said:
Actually, I forgot to mention that I when I searched on crime fiction I also clicked 4 stars and above and releases within 30 days, so otherwise I'd be much farther down than page 12! I think you're right - there are definitely other factors at play then, I assume that being current sales, other titles by the author, how well the author sells (nada since it's a brand new pen name), etc. I think this provides some insight to those who are trying to crack the algorithm.
Ah. That's not the carousel that I think most people are referring to. The carousel is on the book pages itself. So search for a crime fiction author and go to one of their book pages and see where your books fall in that list of sponsored products that has about eight books per page listed.

In terms of search results there are only two shown at the bottom of the first page so that would be harder to get onto and I don't always see myself on that first page, but sometimes do.
 
#935 ·
Cassie Leigh said:
Ah. That's not the carousel that I think most people are referring to. The carousel is on the book pages itself. So search for a crime fiction author and go to one of their book pages and see where your books fall in that list of sponsored products that has about eight books per page listed.
Ah, okay. So, using that way, I'm on page 20 for David Baldacci and page 12 for Clive Cussler on a $1 max bid (without any further filtering as far as stars or new releases). What would it take to get up to the first few pages, anyone care to speculate based on their experience?
 
#936 ·
BillyDeCarlo said:
Ah, okay. So, using that way, I'm on page 20 for David Baldacci and page 12 for Clive Cussler on a $1 max bid (without any further filtering as far as stars or new releases). What would it take to get up to the first few pages, anyone care to speculate based on their experience?
You can try bumping your bids higher. When I did my recent launch I tried $1.25 and $2.50 at one point just to see what would happen and had a couple clicks that cost me over a dollar so there are definitely people bidding that high, but if I were you I would instead work on adding different keywords that can get you on those pages for less spend. I assume you are also using David Baldacci and Clive Cussler as keywords? And maybe some of their titles as well?

If Amazon decides you aren't a great fit I don't think any bid is going to be enough to get you up there.

Also, if you don't have at least 100 keywords on your ad, try to get up to that level. It's something I'm poking at right now because some of my non-fiction ads that had done okay and then stalled out only had 35-50 keywords and I'm thinking more keywords might help. My more successful fiction ads generally have between 150-250 keywords and I'm trying to see if that could be part of it. For me that's probably 80% author names, 15% generic words like "romance" or "fantasy" or "contemporary romance", and 5% titles of books because those don't work as well for me.

If you're stuck for words to use, add authors from your book's also-boughts and those author's also-boughts.
 
#937 ·
Cassie Leigh said:
My more successful fiction ads generally have between 150-250 keywords and I'm trying to see if that could be part of it. For me that's probably 80% author names, 15% generic words like "romance" or "fantasy" or "contemporary romance", and 5% titles of books because those don't work as well for me.

If you're stuck for words to use, add authors from your book's also-boughts and those author's also-boughts.
I am trying to locate unbiased information on Dave Chesson. He promotes his eBook "KDP Rocket" quite heavily, and offers a FREE course on mastering AMS ads and choosing AMS Keywords.

Just for kicks, I am about 25% into his FREE course, and it appears to be legitimate. If, after finishing the course, it still appears to be legitimate I will consider ordering his book.

I have spent an hour or more on Google trying to get some meaningful information on both Dave and his "KDP Rocket" eBook. However, all I come up with is an endless barrage of hype about both he and his book. Every time I come across something which looks unbiased, it turns out to be an interview with Dave - i.e., more hype.

Has anyone here had dealings with either Dave or his eBook, or know anything at all about either?
 
#938 ·
Cassie Leigh said:
Usually my ads are approved in less than 12 hours, but I just had one that took about 30 hours to get approved. Submitted at 8 pm on Tuesday and was only approved early this morning so they were definitely slower than normal.
Colin said:
From my experience, the first ad takes longer to get approved than subsequent ads. So you should hear back from them soon.
Thanks Cassie and Colin, my first ads was approved after 24 hours, but my second ads was running in less than 12 hours!

Anyway, my first ads has 3800 Impressions and got only 1 click. The second ads has 2000 Impressions and received 2 clicks. Nevertheless, none of them bought me any sales. :-X
 
#939 ·
Alvina said:
Thanks Cassie and Colin, my first ads was approved after 24 hours, but my second ads was running in less than 12 hours!

Anyway, my first ads has 3800 Impressions and got only 1 click. The second ads has 2000 Impression and received 2 clicks. Nevertheless, none of them bought me any sales. :-X
Alvina, look at your also-boughts and their also-boughts. Use those author name and book names as keywords.
 
#940 ·
BillyDeCarlo said:
Ah, okay. So, using that way, I'm on page 20 for David Baldacci and page 12 for Clive Cussler on a $1 max bid (without any further filtering as far as stars or new releases). What would it take to get up to the first few pages, anyone care to speculate based on their experience?
I think it's a bit more complicated than just bid price, and much of it is out of our control. Amazon has algorithms at work that further determine where (or if) your book will appear on the carousel.

The following is pure speculation on my part, based on experience and reports from others.

For Amazon, it seems to be all about positive customer experience. They are most interested in providing relevant product suggestions, so much of what appears on those carousels (and the order) is tailored to each customer. I have to assume it's based on what they have purchased and/or searched on in the past.

So if you're trying to use "Stephen King" as a keyword for a romance novel campaign, and set a high bid, it's still a long-shot that your book will appear on page one of someone who loves horror books and is searching on Stephen King. However, if this person has previously purchased something that would suggest to the 'Zon that they would like romance novels, then maybe your romance novel will make an appearance somewhere on that carousel.

On the other hand, if the search was on a romance author (which was used as a keyword), then your book has a far better chance of appearing. On what page would depend on bid price and how many other AMS campaigns are vying for that same keyword at the time (and a lot of other things, like current sales rank, reviews, etc.).

Again, this is just my take on what's going on behind the AMS curtain.
 
#941 ·
Accord64 said:
I think it's a bit more complicated than just bid price, and much of it is out of our control. Amazon has algorithms at work that further determine where (or if) your book will appear on the carousel.

The following is pure speculation on my part, based on experience and reports from others.

For Amazon, it seems to be all about positive customer experience. They are most interested in providing relevant product suggestions, so much of what appears on those carousels (and the order) is tailored to each customer. I have to assume it's based on what they have purchased and/or searched on in the past.

So if you're trying to use "Stephen King" as a keyword for a romance novel campaign, and set a high bid, it's still a long-shot that your book will appear on page one of someone who loves horror books and is searching on Stephen King. However, if this person has previously purchased something that would suggest to the 'Zon that they would like romance novels, then maybe your romance novel will make an appearance somewhere on that carousel.

On the other hand, if the search was on a romance author (which was used as a keyword), then your book has a far better chance of appearing. On what page would depend on bid price and how many other AMS campaigns are vying for that same keyword at the time (and a lot of other things, like current sales rank, reviews, etc.).

Again, this is just my take on what's going on behind the AMS curtain.
As much as I like to agree with you in theory, I'm going to have to disagree about the AMS ads catering to customers preferences. I've been running Sponsored Products ads since last July. I've come to the conclusion that there is some or little correlations as to which books show up on any book's page. The algo switches things around. Sometimes they are genre relevant. Other times, it's as if Amazon has a general list of books (anywhere from 15-100+) that they just throw up there.

Case in point, I write WWII historical fiction. Due to AMS ads, I'm very familiar now with all the latest releases and bestselling WWII fiction to some that languish in the high 6 figures. It never ceases to amaze me how often I see Romance novels with half-naked six-pack men on the cover, or worse Dark Romances about kidnapping and BDSM, listed as sponsored products on a page for a book about the Holocaust. You cannot convince me that someone looking to read about this horrific time in history is interested at that moment to get off on a shifter or billionnaire, or that the reader is concurrently fantasizing about being kidnapped and abused. Sorry, that's just sick. It doesn't happen all the time, but I've seen it enough to conclude that Amazon has a general list of ads that they throw up there sometimes regardless of the book.

Actually, I see 2 lists. One is a list that goes on for 100+ pages. The books on that list are predetermined somehow. They include a variety of generally popular genres like Romances of various kinds with men chests on covers, and thrillers (Atlantic Gene is always on this one, and for a while, Girl Jacked), mixed in with some garden variety of whatever. This list goes on books that are selling well, or books of more niche genres where there aren't a lot of sponsored products ads for that genre. Perhaps Amazon just figures, let's just throw the most popular stuff up there because those are what EVERYBODY wants to buy.

The second list is smaller, about 10-15 books, all from the same 3 authors (or I suspect, the same publisher with the same 3 pen names), bidding at about $0.05, usually of some sheik romance themes. These are the first t0 go up for all the new releases. It's like Amazon's go-to list to start. (Why these books are so favored? I don't know. I know we're not supposed to opine on whether books are good or bad but seriously, there are better books out there.) They'll eventually get pushed to the back when the list populats with other ads bidding higher, but they always get first dip, regardless of the fact that the genre is totally unrelated.

Anyway, this is what I see when I check for historical fiction.

As for product display ads, I have seen maybe once, when a book of same genre shows up on another book's page. They're typically completely off if they are supposed to target interested readers.
 
#943 ·
Accord64 said:
"The following is pure speculation on my part, based on experience and reports from others."

That seems very reasonable. I would like to make a couple of comments. First, such a strategy reinforces the already-successful authors and their books while placing invisible obstacles in the way of newcomers. Trying to cross-sell from Romance to Historical Fiction is impeded but buttressing your standing within your established niche is encouraged. Eventually this results in a sameness and the same short-list of established names writing variations of their same old thing - exactly like the less adventurous trad publishers. Pity. Second thing, Amazon does [gasp!] make mistakes like the rest of us and sometimes their outcomes are unintended. But they do get corrected after they are recognized.

That said, where else can you get free exposure? It's a good deal for us even if imperfect.
 
#944 ·
BillyDeCarlo said:
I have my bid set at $1 for the 'crime fiction' keyword for the crime/noir novel that I published May 28. If I open an incognito/private browsing window (so I'm not logged into amazon and no cached cookies or other info can prejudice the results) and go to amazon.com and search on crime fiction in the books category, my book shows up on page 12 of the carousel.

Is that about what you experienced folks would expect for what I assume is a highly competitive keyword?

What do you estimate it would take in terms of a bid to get to page one? I'm currently just experimenting, I don't want to invest a lot until I have books two and three in the series available.
Billy, my 2 cents: stop trying to bid on the top ranking bestsellers like David Baldacci. These aren't FB ads. You'll burn through your wallet. And you don't need to get on their pages, it's not effective.

The carousel is a changing baby/beast. You have to keep watch and constantly tend to it and feed it, take care of it.

Start by going to your main genre and subgenre's HNR list. See who's on top. It probably is not David Baldacci, but some up and coming or other midlist authors who are also selling well.

Check the ads on their pages. If they have fewer than 20 pages of ads on the carousel, get yourself on those pages. You can probably bid under $0.40 and get on the first page. Even getting on p.3 will be good.

If the have 100+ pages of ads of irrelevant genres, then Amazon is doing its weird thing and throwing up everything. Wait till the hype for these books die down. Check back in 2-3 weeks. Those 100+ pages will/might revert back to 10-15 pages. I've even seen it revert down to 2 pages. But those books will still be selling well since your genre is not the fast and burn trending kind. Now you can try using those pages as KWs.
 
#945 ·
AlexaKang said:
On another note, to Cassie, thanks for continuously answering our questions and trying to help.
Thanks. And just to be clear, I know I don't have all the answers, I just have my own experience and what has/hasn't worked for me. I did really dig into the mechanics of the different ad types to write that book so those things I can point people to when they come up, but like I say in the book getting these things to work is more art than science. What works on one of my ads doesn't on another and what works for me doesn't for someone else and what's worked for others hasn't worked for me. That's why I appreciate this discussion so much because we all throw in what we're seeing and doing and can learn together as things change.
 
#946 ·
AlexaKang said:
Case in point, I write WWII historical fiction. Due to AMS ads, I'm very familiar now with all the latest releases and bestselling WWII fiction to some that languish in the high 6 figures. It never ceases to amaze me how often I see Romance novels with half-naked six-pack men on the cover, or worse Dark Romances about kidnapping and BDSM, listed as sponsored products on a page for a book about the Holocaust. You cannot convince me that someone looking to read about this horrific time in history is interested at that moment to get off on a shifter or billionnaire, or that the reader is concurrently fantasizing about being kidnapped and abused. Sorry, that's just sick. It doesn't happen all the time, but I've seen it enough to conclude that Amazon has a general list of ads that they throw up there sometimes regardless of the book.
I guess my point was that we can't be sure if all customers are seeing the same things, since the 'Zon seems to customize returns for each. Although I won't disagree that the algos get a little crazy at times... :eek:
 
#947 ·
LilyBLily said:
I've checked on those three "authors" in the past and their books are not ranked high. All their positive reviews are obviously fake, and some of their negative reviews accuse them of not writing full-length books. I assume the publisher behind them bids fantastically high and uses all 1,000 keywords and makes it up in KU reads. Reads do affect ranking but not as much as sales do, I believe, which accounts for their poor ranking. Also, you can bid $5 per keyword and not spend over .05 cents if someone clicks. If no one clicks, the ad gets free impressions, so it's a win-win. I guess if we wanted to risk it, we could do the same, bid $5 per keyword. But not on a Stephen King book.
OMG!! Lily I'm ROTFL. It's totally true. They use TONS of fake reviews and obvious as hell too. I don't know why Amazon lets them do get away with this. This is why I say this publisher is Amazon's favored child. She gets first dip in AMS ads, and she gets away with fake reviews.

I checked out some of her reviewers. They clearly review books for pay. What cracked me up was some of these reviewers gave good reviews for paleo cook books AND vegan cook books. Now granted, a household could have people with different eating habits, but...nah, I don't buy it from the way the reviews were written. No one is a paleo eater AND a vegan.

And one minute these reviewers are endorsing a book on high power financial executive strategies, while next minute they're endorsing a book on how to make quilts. Yep. I Grandma is CEO on Wall Street by day, and a sweet little old lady making quilts at night. :D

These "authors" don't bid high though. They bid at around 5c. I know because whenever I see them on a page I want to be on, I bid at $.10 and will leap over them on the carousel.
 
#948 ·
Accord64 said:
I think it's a bit more complicated than just bid price, and much of it is out of our control. Amazon has algorithms at work that further determine where (or if) your book will appear on the carousel.
It's definitely a hodge podge of things. Last week I got incredibly lucky. An amazon imprint book was released and one of my keywords was in the blurb for that book. Because it was a new book and a new author, no one even knew it was released I guess. Long story short, only 5 books were in the carousel of a book that was ranked #5 in the paid store. My book was first in the carousel and clicks were costing me about 7c.

Fast forward a week, there's now 100 pages of ads or whatever and my book is gone from the ads carousel.

So it's really a crapshoot. bidding matters, but sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes it doesn't for a while and then it does as other authors rush in on a book and drive the bids through the roof.
 
#950 ·
May was my first month for AMS, and it was the best month I've had for sales and reads since publishing last year. So I copied the campaign, left the keywords the same but upped my daily budget to $2.

It's flopped. I even put the book on a countdown deal to reduce it to 99cents but it has had little effect.

I'm going to try adding more keywords and see what happens.

Still loving the thread 😀
 
#951 ·
Seneca42 said:
It's definitely a hodge podge of things. Last week I got incredibly lucky. An amazon imprint book was released and one of my keywords was in the blurb for that book. Because it was a new book and a new author, no one even knew it was released I guess. Long story short, only 5 books were in the carousel of a book that was ranked #5 in the paid store. My book was first in the carousel and clicks were costing me about 7c.
How did you find out that all that happened? When you get a spike, how do you reverse engineer to the source like that?
 
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