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A hard-boiled detective story with a difference - Grimalkin is not your usual PI. Four legs, whiskers and a tail, perfect night vision and a talent for breaking and entering .... and a track record of crazy dames trying to kill him. He is also the only cat in history with a clown phobia. The case takes an even weirder twist when it becomes clear that a power-crazed parrot is calling all the shots. Sam Spade never had to deal with hysterical gerbil witnesses, pirate assassins or death by custard.

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Author Topic: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.  (Read 1024 times)  

Offline thevoiceofone

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5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« on: March 20, 2017, 05:10:00 PM »
I use createspace, interested to know a couple of things.


1. Does Amazon get your paperbacks into barnes and noble and libraries?
2. Are you getting the same royalty amount on paperbacks vs createspace?
3. Can you upload what you would usually upload to createspace to Amazon or does it have to fit their templates?
4. Is the 5.25 x 8  size available on Amazon for paperback
5. Is there the same review process delays when you make a change on a file like there is on createspace?

Thanks
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 01:54:40 PM by lostones »

Offline Cassie Leigh

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 05:58:15 PM »
I think we're having a terminology disconnect here.  AMS is generally used on these boards to review to the Amazon CPC advertising.  You seem to be talking about something else?  Like KDP Print perhaps?


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Offline Doglover

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 01:21:54 AM »
I use createspace, interested to know a couple of things.


1. Does AMS get your paperbacks into barnes and noble and libraries?
2. Are you getting the same royalty amount on paperbacks vs createspace?
3. Can you upload what you would usually upload to createspace to AMS or does it have to fit their templates?
4. Is the 5.25 x 8  size available on AMS for paperback
5. Is there the same review process delays when you make a change on a file like there is on createspace?

Thanks
AMS is Amazon Marketing Services. In other words, it is their advertising service and has nothing to do with paperbacks.

I think you are talking about the kdp paperback publishing which has been much criticised, usually by people who have never tried it. I have tried both and I prefer it, but I am in the UK so the proof copies and the author copies have never been much use to me anyway. kdp don't do the expanded distribution either, but that's no great loss. As to the sizes, I use a 5 x 8 that I already have so I don't know about the other size. You can always download a template from CS and use that. The main problem with it I think is the cover. There are not so many choices and if you want a wraparound, you have to upload a pdf.

I have found the production costs to be cheaper with kdp so you can either get more royalty or you can price your book lower. The approval time is much quicker, within the hour while you wait instead of CS's 24 hours. I haven't tried to change anything so I can't answer that.

I think if you are a novice,, you are better sticking with Createspace for now.


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Offline ThomasDiehl

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2017, 01:42:32 AM »
I use createspace, interested to know a couple of things.


1. Does AMS get your paperbacks into barnes and noble and libraries?
2. Are you getting the same royalty amount on paperbacks vs createspace?
3. Can you upload what you would usually upload to createspace to AMS or does it have to fit their templates?
4. Is the 5.25 x 8  size available on AMS for paperback
5. Is there the same review process delays when you make a change on a file like there is on createspace?

Thanks
I too, will just assume you mean KDP Paperback, so:

1. No, only Amazon. However, despite what Createspace claims with their expanded distribution option, no shop but Amazon will actually put Createspace books on their shelves, so it's a moot point, really.
2. Yes
3. As long as you keep in line with their their trim sizes and margins, you can upload any PDF file
4. Yes, according to their FAQ (I didn't try it)
5. Did not yet make a change, but the initial review is about as fast or slow as for Kindle books. For both options, I usually upload at midnight and see it available in the shop after breakfast
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Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2017, 08:25:38 AM »
1. No, only Amazon. However, despite what Createspace claims with their expanded distribution option, no shop but Amazon will actually put Createspace books on their shelves, so it's a moot point, really.

It's actually not a moot point. I have probably sold one PB on extended distribution for every 2 I have sold on Amazon. Most of those other sales were on B&N web store. That's a far better ration that 100-1 Amazon vs other sales for my books that are wide. Now, I have probably only sold 100 PB copies total over six years, but lack of extended distribution would mean almost literally throwing money away.
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Offline MissingAlaska

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2017, 10:10:29 AM »
It's actually not a moot point. I have probably sold one PB on extended distribution for every 2 I have sold on Amazon. Most of those other sales were on B&N web store. That's a far better ration that 100-1 Amazon vs other sales for my books that are wide. Now, I have probably only sold 100 PB copies total over six years, but lack of extended distribution would mean almost literally throwing money away.

I'm a prawn but can echo this statement. One of my books has sold more through extended distribution than Amazon.

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2017, 10:25:40 AM »
It's actually not a moot point. I have probably sold one PB on extended distribution for every 2 I have sold on Amazon. Most of those other sales were on B&N web store. That's a far better ration that 100-1 Amazon vs other sales for my books that are wide. Now, I have probably only sold 100 PB copies total over six years, but lack of extended distribution would mean almost literally throwing money away.

I think ThomasDiehl was speaking specifically about brick and mortar store shelves.
     

Offline Evenstar

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2017, 11:30:49 AM »
I've been struggling to do a paperback through KDP for about three weeks now! I'm stubbornly persisting because I hate not figuring something out.

My poor cover designer downloaded their template (for a 5.25 x 8) and they kept throwing it back as not quite right, even though she did it to their specs. Eventually she manually altered it to what they said it should be and that worked. Then they rejected it again because the barcode covers some of the coloured area. Not text, just the picture. Again it was sized to their template. Sigh. She fixed that, it went into review and they rejected it again because they didn't like the name of my book. It had the words box set in the title.  I totally understand that it could be misleading, but it's not an issue I've had before.  So now I'm having to rename the book, redo the ebook to match, redo the paperback cover, change all the internal front pages. Sigh.... I am NOT going to update all my other books with the name change.
You can watch this space if you like to see if it ever actually works!

Offline Doglover

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2017, 11:48:06 AM »
I've been struggling to do a paperback through KDP for about three weeks now! I'm stubbornly persisting because I hate not figuring something out.

My poor cover designer downloaded their template (for a 5.25 x 8) and they kept throwing it back as not quite right, even though she did it to their specs. Eventually she manually altered it to what they said it should be and that worked. Then they rejected it again because the barcode covers some of the coloured area. Not text, just the picture. Again it was sized to their template. Sigh. She fixed that, it went into review and they rejected it again because they didn't like the name of my book. It had the words box set in the title.  I totally understand that it could be misleading, but it's not an issue I've had before.  So now I'm having to rename the book, redo the ebook to match, redo the paperback cover, change all the internal front pages. Sigh.... I am NOT going to update all my other books with the name change.
You can watch this space if you like to see if it ever actually works!
Most of my books have been transferred from Createspace, but the last one I did straight to kdp. That one has a picture going all the way round the wraparound but I never have a problem, even though the barcode goes on top of it. Well, it would have to really, wouldn't it? But, I can't get a 3D preview of that one, like I could of the createspace ones. I had a problem transferring some of my shorter books because kdp said the spine text was too large, even though that was actually put there by Createspace, not me.


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Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2017, 12:21:29 PM »
I think ThomasDiehl was speaking specifically about brick and mortar store shelves.
I'm sure he was, but he stated that expanded distribution was a moot point and expanded distribution is more than just brick and mortar. For me, KDP print is a non-starter unless they have expanded distribution and author copies. I understand that if you're outside the U.S., the author copies may be irrelevant. But the few authors I have talked to who sell decent numbers of paperbacks via createspace and who have extended distribution enabled, definitely sell a higher ratio of non-Amazon to Amazon in paperback than they do in ebook.
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Offline 262Runner

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 01:11:37 PM »
... it went into review and they rejected it again because they didn't like the name of my book. It had the words box set in the title.  I totally understand that it could be misleading, but it's not an issue I've had before. 

A single book is not a box set. It can be an omnibus or a collection, but a box set indicates multiple books. You probably are better off calling it something else.

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 01:15:50 PM »
It's actually not a moot point. I have probably sold one PB on extended distribution for every 2 I have sold on Amazon. Most of those other sales were on B&N web store. That's a far better ration that 100-1 Amazon vs other sales for my books that are wide. Now, I have probably only sold 100 PB copies total over six years, but lack of extended distribution would mean almost literally throwing money away.
Due to the dominance of Amazon on the online market, I am surprised by that. Fair enough, that is a good point in Createspace's favor.
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Offline thevoiceofone

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2017, 01:55:04 PM »
AMS is Amazon Marketing Services. In other words, it is their advertising service and has nothing to do with paperbacks.

I think you are talking about the kdp paperback publishing which has been much criticised, usually by people who have never tried it. I have tried both and I prefer it, but I am in the UK so the proof copies and the author copies have never been much use to me anyway. kdp don't do the expanded distribution either, but that's no great loss. As to the sizes, I use a 5 x 8 that I already have so I don't know about the other size. You can always download a template from CS and use that. The main problem with it I think is the cover. There are not so many choices and if you want a wraparound, you have to upload a pdf.

I have found the production costs to be cheaper with kdp so you can either get more royalty or you can price your book lower. The approval time is much quicker, within the hour while you wait instead of CS's 24 hours. I haven't tried to change anything so I can't answer that.

I think if you are a novice,, you are better sticking with Createspace for now.

LOL sorry i mixed up the words. Yes. I meant paperback.

Offline thevoiceofone

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2017, 01:57:52 PM »
It's actually not a moot point. I have probably sold one PB on extended distribution for every 2 I have sold on Amazon. Most of those other sales were on B&N web store. That's a far better ration that 100-1 Amazon vs other sales for my books that are wide. Now, I have probably only sold 100 PB copies total over six years, but lack of extended distribution would mean almost literally throwing money away.

Yeah i agree. I think its best to have expanded distribution. If amazon goes that route i will jump ship over to them but otherwise its not worth it in my mind.

Offline thevoiceofone

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2017, 01:59:08 PM »
I've been struggling to do a paperback through KDP for about three weeks now! I'm stubbornly persisting because I hate not figuring something out.

My poor cover designer downloaded their template (for a 5.25 x 8) and they kept throwing it back as not quite right, even though she did it to their specs. Eventually she manually altered it to what they said it should be and that worked. Then they rejected it again because the barcode covers some of the coloured area. Not text, just the picture. Again it was sized to their template. Sigh. She fixed that, it went into review and they rejected it again because they didn't like the name of my book. It had the words box set in the title.  I totally understand that it could be misleading, but it's not an issue I've had before.  So now I'm having to rename the book, redo the ebook to match, redo the paperback cover, change all the internal front pages. Sigh.... I am NOT going to update all my other books with the name change.
You can watch this space if you like to see if it ever actually works!

Why are you doing that if you can just go through createspace?

Offline Anma Natsu

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2017, 02:09:49 PM »
A single book is not a box set. It can be an omnibus or a collection, but a box set indicates multiple books. You probably are better off calling it something else.

This.  From some other reports, Amazon is starting to crack down on the use of "box set", especially for print books, where there is no way to offer such a thing through their POD systems.  It can be an omnibus edition (common term for multiple volumes of same series/author), anthology (differing authors), or something like "complete collection" or "complete season 1 collection" would also work.

Offline David Greene

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2017, 02:34:11 PM »
You can publish a paperback edition of a book via KDP print for sale on Amazon. You can then also publish a paperback edition of the same book via CreateSpace and limit distribution to expanded distribution.

That would give you the best of both worlds.

This strategy also allows you to set a higher price for the Expanded Distribution edition on CreateSpace in order to make up for the reduced royalties there. That's a way to equalize the royalties among all the distribution channels for paperbacks.

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2017, 03:16:45 PM »
Due to the dominance of Amazon on the online market, I am surprised by that. Fair enough, that is a good point in Createspace's favor.

When it comes to expanded distribution you need to take a world view, not US-centric. While Amazon dominates in the US (and is growing in other regions), the shipping charges for those of us outside the US can be astronomical. Using expanded distribution gets you into those other region-specific book retailers that are favoured in various parts of the world, as well as BookDepository which offers free shipping worldwide (it also happens to be owned by Amazon...). I've traditionally sold 3 paperbacks through expanded distribution for every 1 on Amazon.

I live in New Zealand, so I have to wait for a cheque from CreateSpace rather than getting the direct deposit option. For that reason I've migrated my paperbacks across to KDP Print (so I can be paid directly, rather than waiting for a cheque). To keep access to a wider distribution network (including BookDepository), I'm setting up my catalogue on IngramSpark. It gives better royalties, and can also do hardback copies. IS are currently running a special with no setup fees on their books until the end of April (with the promotion code INDIEFRINGE17)


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Offline Sleeping Cat Books

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Re: 5 AMS paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2017, 12:49:43 AM »
I have found the production costs to be cheaper with kdp so you can either get more royalty or you can price your book lower.
I'm not sure how that's possible.

KDP Print: (https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=ATZHCE8PIQQR5)
Paperback SpecificationsUS Marketplace (USD) Fixed CostAdditional Per Page Cost
Black ink with 24-108 pages$2.15 per bookNone
Black ink with 110-828 pages$0.85 per book$0.012 per page
   
CreateSpace: (https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/Royalties.jsp)
Paperback SpecificationsUS Marketplace (USD) Fixed CostAdditional Per Page Cost
Black and white books with 24-108 pages$2.15 per bookNone
Black and white books with 110-828 pages$0.85 per book$0.012 per page

CreateSpace: (https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/Royalties.jsp)
For a 184 page black and white book, you set your USD list price at $8.99. A customer purchases your book on Amazon.com

and a book is printed to fulfill that order.
Sales Channel % = $3.60
Fixed Charge = $0.85
Per Page Charge = $2.20
Your Royalty = $2.34

KDP Print: (https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A1OYGQ0E1L4WBS)
Paperback royalty rates are 60% of your list price minus printing costs, applicable taxes and withholding.
60% of List Price - Printing Costs - Applicable Taxes or Withholding = Estimated Royalty

Using the same book sale as above, a 184 page black and white book, USD list price at $8.99
(8.99 * .6) - (0.85 + 2.20) = $2.34     (assuming no taxes or withholding)
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Offline Doglover

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2017, 01:15:06 AM »
I'm not sure how that's possible.

KDP Print: (https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=ATZHCE8PIQQR5)
Paperback SpecificationsUS Marketplace (USD) Fixed CostAdditional Per Page Cost
Black ink with 24-108 pages$2.15 per bookNone
Black ink with 110-828 pages$0.85 per book$0.012 per page
   
CreateSpace: (https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/Royalties.jsp)
Paperback SpecificationsUS Marketplace (USD) Fixed CostAdditional Per Page Cost
Black and white books with 24-108 pages$2.15 per bookNone
Black and white books with 110-828 pages$0.85 per book$0.012 per page

CreateSpace: (https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/Royalties.jsp)
For a 184 page black and white book, you set your USD list price at $8.99. A customer purchases your book on Amazon.com

and a book is printed to fulfill that order.
Sales Channel % = $3.60
Fixed Charge = $0.85
Per Page Charge = $2.20
Your Royalty = $2.34

KDP Print: (https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A1OYGQ0E1L4WBS)
Paperback royalty rates are 60% of your list price minus printing costs, applicable taxes and withholding.
60% of List Price - Printing Costs - Applicable Taxes or Withholding = Estimated Royalty

Using the same book sale as above, a 184 page black and white book, USD list price at $8.99
(8.99 * .6) - (0.85 + 2.20) = $2.34     (assuming no taxes or withholding)
All I know is that I can put the same amount on the minimum cost and come up with a cheaper price.


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Offline Evenstar

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2017, 03:54:04 AM »
Why are you doing that if you can just go through createspace?

Sheer bloody mindedness! I don't like not being able to make it work for me.


A single book is not a box set. It can be an omnibus or a collection, but a box set indicates multiple books. You probably are better off calling it something else.

Yes, I'm aware of that. As I said I do realise it's misleading. But it is a commonly enough used term that most buyers are cognizant to the fact that it means a bundled series.  However, I am already taking steps to rename the whole stupid box set, just so I can crack this thing!

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2017, 04:45:58 AM »
All I know is that I can put the same amount on the minimum cost and come up with a cheaper price.
Can you give us an example? What is the page count and interior type, and what minimum price does KDP Print indicate?
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Offline edwardgtalbot

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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2017, 04:47:31 AM »
Yes, I'm aware of that. As I said I do realise it's misleading. But it is a commonly enough used term that most buyers are cognizant to the fact that it means a bundled series.  However, I am already taking steps to rename the whole stupid box set, just so I can crack this thing!

Although it is possible that Amazon has started cracking down on use of the term "boxset," I have seen few signs of it. A number of very high profile indie authors use the term in their non-Amazon imprint bundles. This thread is the first time I have ever heard that they are, though I confess I spend more time on various FB authors groups than kboards these days. When my third in series comes out in May, I will be using the term.
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Re: 5 Amazon paperback questions for those that use it.
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2017, 06:59:56 AM »
Although it is possible that Amazon has started cracking down on use of the term "boxset," I have seen few signs of it. A number of very high profile indie authors use the term in their non-Amazon imprint bundles. This thread is the first time I have ever heard that they are, though I confess I spend more time on various FB authors groups than kboards these days. When my third in series comes out in May, I will be using the term.

I've only heard of a couple of authors getting tagged on the term for print, but I haven't heard of anyone getting dinged for ebooks.
_____

I use KDP Print and started with KDP Print as we've recently had print rights reverted for the majority of our catalog, so we didn't have control of a lot of our print before. We don't earn much via print since 3rd-party paperbacks for the backlist are still available and much cheaper than what we can print for. We don't need proofs, especially since every "print run" is different for POD, and while the quality of the proofs might be fine, that's no guarantee the quality of Book #100 that's printed will be. I trust that if I provide the appropriate files, the quality with be mostly good across all the printing. When expanded distribution opens up via KDP Print, we'll add that revenue stream then. 

But my situation is not everyone's. For now, KDP Print works for my catalog, and I'm slowly but steadily adding titles there. I do 5.5x8. The first books I used the Cover Creator to upload the ebook covers and add a spine and back. Last month, when I made a change to an interior (and changes go through in just a few hours), I was dinged that the font size on the spine was too large. The same spine created and approved by their tool. Pfft. So the last couple of books I've pubbed, I created full wraps for and uploaded PDFs, with no issues (sorry, Evenstar!). I leave a blank space on the back cover art for the barcode, and I get the 3D cover preview just fine.

I have interior graphics for headers, section breaks and back matter, and so long as I upload a PDF of the interior, that works fine. I use Word to format, and I do find using the "print to PDF" option to be more reliable than the "save as PDF" option to ensure the graphics render at the 300+ dpi resolution I create and insert them as.