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That special vibe…

3K views 45 replies 13 participants last post by  progressmaker 
#1 ·
Hi Kboarders,
Hope this post finds you well.
I have been pondering about the different paths to market your book, and I made out the following four basic models, which you already know.
They are:
1. Paid Ads - Bookbub, AMS etc
2. Freemium - permafree, 5 days promo, giveaways etc
3. Online and offline networking - social media, blogs, webinars, podcasts, attending author conferences, bookfairs etc
4. Product Improvement
Usually a combination of all the above four methods are used for marketing. While the first three methods are usually discussed, my intention is to draw your attention to the last model, which is, Product Improvement. This is usually done across all industries: new software versions, a new model of mobile phone, are very good examples. In our case, it comes down to re-writing which is actually editing your book. Yes, even redoing the blurb, changing tags, and changing the cover counts here.
I once heard in a podcast (Simon Whistler's or Tim Knox's?) that an author announced in a conference that he actually edited his book 38 times or so before it took off!
So my question to you is this:
If you deliberately re-edit your book several times, even if it appears perfect, and use that alone as a marketing tool, will it begin to emit a special vibe, some sort an aura, which intuitively attracts customers while they browse through the Amazon catalogue?
 
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#2 ·
Surely a closer analogy to new versions of software/phone models is, like, another book? Not just the same book retooled?

I can foresee a scenario where changing a book cover to capitalise on a current trend makes sense. But that doesn't seem like it would be worth doing just for the sake of it. And while it may work in a way because its more current, it's not going to make the book emit a special aura.

And to be honest, if the author edited his book 38 times, that makes me think he wasn't doing very good edits.
 
#3 ·
progressmaker said:
...While the first three methods are usually discussed...
I think you'll find the 4th one is constantly discussed - it's the combination of cover and blurb that draw customers in and help land the deal. In pretty much any thread asking "how can I sell more books" the answer will usually start with "first of all, work on your cover and blurb" (assuming the writing is up to scratch).

Using re-editing alone as a marketing tool is largely pointless in my opinion, unless you have the cover/blurb sorted to entice people to check out the content. And as RightHoJeeves alluded to, using re-editing as a marketing tool may actually drive customers away. If I were to see a book trumpeting how many times it has been edited, I'd be inclined to stay well clear of it.

I'd even go so far as to say re-editing should not be done at all post-release (apart from catching typos). Get it done and get the book out there. It is the blurb and cover that can be constantly changed and updated to reflect changes in taste. Look at any top selling book, in any genre, ever - the cover and blurb will be changed at some point. The interior will not.
 
G
#4 ·
I'm still baffled as to why anyone would publish their book before it's ready. Setting aside for the moment that self-editing is simply another draft and not really editing, it's the "publish now, fix it later" that gives the people who say indie is unedited garbage ammunition. Unless you are following up a book that is selling, there is no hurry. Get it right the first time.
My first novel did exceedingly well. It was the springboard from which I launched my career. But there are things I would have done differently - info dumps I would have changed, scenes I would have deleted or added. Still, it was edited, proof read, beta tested, and ready before it was published. The changes I would make have more to do with the fact I am a more experienced writer now. My skills have improved. But there is no point going back and screwing around with it. It's a finished product. Actually, after five years, people still read and enjoy it.
 
#5 ·
To answer the original question, to be blunt, no, I don't believe that re-editing will gain any foothold for your WIP once it's been published.  If a book doesn't grab me when I first start reading it, I move on - there are thousands of other books to read. Re-editing and completely re-publishing might attract new readers who hadn't seen the book before, but that's a lot of time, effort and cost, and you've missed and probably lost a whole bunch of readers, like me, who saw the previous version and won't come back to it.

It seems to me - from my not-even-published-yet viewpoint - that multiple rounds of editing are often associated with first book nerves.  It's taken me more years than I care to think about to get my current WIP into shape that I think is publishable.  However, I'm doing my best, with self-editing, beta readers, etc, to make sure it's as good as I can make it just now before I hit publish.  Once it's out into the world, published, that's it - I may do updates for typos, as others do, but not a re-edit or other tinkering.

And having got the actual words to the point where I think they are as good as I can manage, at the stage I'm at just now, I will get a good, genre-appropriate cover and work on the blurb - so that the product as a whole is polished.

Then I'll move on to the next one, make that as good as I can, and the next, and so on - and hopefully grow and improve as a writer as I get more experience.
 
G
#6 ·
progressmaker said:
So my question to you is this:
If you deliberately re-edit your book several times, even if it appears perfect, and use that alone as a marketing tool, will it begin to emit a special vibe, some sort an aura, which intuitively attracts customers while they browse through the Amazon catalogue?
I think continual product improvement is certainly a valid thing for non-fiction books and I always put a version or revision number in mine, much like you get with software. For non-fiction, I agree with what most people have said, above.

As to your question, I am not sure what you mean exactly. I don't think that re-editing would create any special 'aura' to attract browsers, but improving covers, blurb and the opening i.e. the 'look inside' portion of the book can all have an impact.
 
#7 ·
RightHoJeeves said:
Surely a closer analogy to new versions of software/phone models is, like, another book? Not just the same book retooled?

I can foresee a scenario where changing a book cover to capitalise on a current trend makes sense. But that doesn't seem like it would be worth doing just for the sake of it. And while it may work in a way because its more current, it's not going to make the book emit a special aura.

And to be honest, if the author edited his book 38 times, that makes me think he wasn't doing very good edits.
I'm not drawing any analogy but just pointing out to deliberate re-editing as process improvement.
That author's book became a bestseller. However the point I want to consider is the impact of deliberate re-edits on new customers who are not yet on your email subscriber list. I suppose this will increase sales in the long run for decades to come, for the rest of your life.
The "aura" or the "vibe" I mentioned, of course, is the result of an awesome blurb and cover coupled with the Look Inside, what H.M.Ward refers to as a three legged stool. Even though you may invest a good 199 to 500 dollars on a top notch cover, the LI has to be impressive!
Thanks for your reply.
 
#8 ·
dcswain said:
I think you'll find the 4th one is constantly discussed - it's the combination of cover and blurb that draw customers in and help land the deal. In pretty much any thread asking "how can I sell more books" the answer will usually start with "first of all, work on your cover and blurb" (assuming the writing is up to scratch).

Using re-editing alone as a marketing tool is largely pointless in my opinion, unless you have the cover/blurb sorted to entice people to check out the content. And as RightHoJeeves alluded to, using re-editing as a marketing tool may actually drive customers away. If I were to see a book trumpeting how many times it has been edited, I'd be inclined to stay well clear of it.

I'd even go so far as to say re-editing should not be done at all post-release (apart from catching typos). Get it done and get the book out there. It is the blurb and cover that can be constantly changed and updated to reflect changes in taste. Look at any top selling book, in any genre, ever - the cover and blurb will be changed at some point. The interior will not.
Jen Blood, told in an interview to Joanna Penn that you should deliberately delete the first chapter and look at your book once again. Sometimes, I feel, that deliberate re-edits lead to improvement in plot, introduction of a prologue, making the LI more catchy etc. I have read some books by top 100 authors on Amazon, who are NYT best sellers, and I found that their novels were ridden with so many spelling mistakes. The writing was not at all lucid, and it appeared like first drafts, thrown at the readers in a hurry. They however know how to game the algorithms, among so many other things.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#9 ·
This_Way_Down said:
I'm still baffled as to why anyone would publish their book before it's ready. Setting aside for the moment that self-editing is simply another draft and not really editing, it's the "publish now, fix it later" that gives the people who say indie is unedited garbage ammunition. Unless you are following up a book that is selling, there is no hurry. Get it right the first time.
My first novel did exceedingly well. It was the springboard from which I launched my career. But there are things I would have done differently - info dumps I would have changed, scenes I would have deleted or added. Still, it was edited, proof read, beta tested, and ready before it was published. The changes I would make have more to do with the fact I am a more experienced writer now. My skills have improved. But there is no point going back and screwing around with it. It's a finished product. Actually, after five years, people still read and enjoy it.
I' talking about deliberate re-edits even after a book is validated and ready. These periodical passes can result in improved sales and conversion rates in the long-term. After all, writing business is like a marathon, a write-a-thon, and not a 100mt sprint. Sprinting and throwing stuff at readers result in slush pile. New subscribers can be gained in hundreds and thousands only because your re-edits made the LI and the chapters more awesome.
Sometimes, we need to learn from negative reviews and go back and incorporate those changes by doing re-edits.
I feel that a lot of authors are afraid, ostrich like, to read through their older works.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#10 ·
TwistedTales said:
You forgot some:

- Packaging and Pricing
- Catalogue Design
- New Product Development
- Branding
- Customer Management

There are more functions, but I can't remember them all right now. They are all part of marketing. The book business needs all of the standard functions to have a chance of succeeding, even if some are done by accident or not very well.

As for editing. There comes a point when you draw a line or you're over investing. A book may fail to gain traction for all sorts of reason, editing being only one possible cause. Given readers don't know if a book has been modified post release, I don't see how it will exude any vibe just because you edited it again. It might attract slightly better reviews, but even that's questionable. Reviewers only write their opinion, intelligent or otherwise. If your books aren't selling there are more constructive things to do than continue editing it.
Of course, the above factors you mentioned matters. I also said that a combination of the various factors is usually done.
Over investing of time or otherwise, depends on the time management skills of the author. If they don't have the skills to self-edit, they are going to waste lots of money in edits and re-edits. I have read so many threads where authors complain about poor editing by the editors, who sometimes, take the story in their own hands, and completely change the story itself. Self-publishing intrinsically also implies self-editing. Why many authors overlook this and avoid editing and grammar issues?
Re-editing is like long-term investment. It can result in dramatic and exponential conversion rates, like the example author, I mentioned. Reviews don't impact ranking. However re-edits require lots of time and energy, and care should be taken so that it does not affect the work in progress.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#11 ·
VanessaC said:
To answer the original question, to be blunt, no, I don't believe that re-editing will gain any foothold for your WIP once it's been published. If a book doesn't grab me when I first start reading it, I move on - there are thousands of other books to read. Re-editing and completely re-publishing might attract new readers who hadn't seen the book before, but that's a lot of time, effort and cost, and you've missed and probably lost a whole bunch of readers, like me, who saw the previous version and won't come back to it.

It seems to me - from my not-even-published-yet viewpoint - that multiple rounds of editing are often associated with first book nerves. It's taken me more years than I care to think about to get my current WIP into shape that I think is publishable. However, I'm doing my best, with self-editing, beta readers, etc, to make sure it's as good as I can make it just now before I hit publish. Once it's out into the world, published, that's it - I may do updates for typos, as others do, but not a re-edit or other tinkering.

And having got the actual words to the point where I think they are as good as I can manage, at the stage I'm at just now, I will get a good, genre-appropriate cover and work on the blurb - so that the product as a whole is polished.

Then I'll move on to the next one, make that as good as I can, and the next, and so on - and hopefully grow and improve as a writer as I get more experience.
I listened to Lindsay Buroker, a sever figure author, gettting interviewed by Joanna Penn. She told Joanna that it took 7 years to put her first novel!
See, you are only one reader among millions on Amazon. Those who never heard of the author will start buying when the see the republished book. Note: I'm not talking about new editions. Just republishing. There is no such thing as the perfect novel; a novel is ideally edited an infinite number of times.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#12 ·
As a reader I would not be happy with an author who had several different substantially re-edited versions of a book up that I had bought in its first iteration. Might be justified after a number of years, of course, particularly if it were a somewhat wobbly first book in a series and the others were much stronger. In general, though, I agree with This Way Down: why would you put out a book before it's ready? And if it IS ready, why would you keep fiddling with it? Once a book is basically done, reworking it carries at least as much risk of making it worse as it does promise of making it better. As others have said, your time is much better spent working on the next one.
 
#13 ·
Will Edwards said:
I think continual product improvement is certainly a valid thing for non-fiction books and I always put a version or revision number in mine, much like you get with software. For non-fiction, I agree with what most people have said, above.

As to your question, I am not sure what you mean exactly. I don't think that re-editing would create any special 'aura' to attract browsers, but improving covers, blurb and the opening i.e. the 'look inside' portion of the book can all have an impact.
I'm talking about fiction where republishing matters, and not non-fiction where versions matters.
"The special aura" is largely an intuitive thing (I think there is even a term for it), whereby you for some reason get drawn towards a particular book, and that only.
This will happen when you walk along a row of books in a library, and suddenly you get thrilled by looking at the particular book.
Of course, on Amazon, this will browsing and getting hooked on to a particular cover.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#14 ·
Sarah Shaw said:
As a reader I would not be happy with an author who had several different substantially re-edited versions of a book up that I had bought in its first iteration. Might be justified after a number of years, of course, particularly if it were a somewhat wobbly first book in a series and the others were much stronger. In general, though, I agree with This Way Down: why would you put out a book before it's ready? And if it IS ready, why would you keep fiddling with it? Once a book is basically done, reworking it carries at least as much risk of making it worse as it does promise of making it better. As others have said, your time is much better spent working on the next one.
Aerki said in our official site that he learned to write the final draft the first time.
That statement is worth contemplating upon in the light of what This Way Down said.
Long run. Long-term investment. Deliberate re-edits even if the novel is perfect. Write-a-thon and not 100mt sprint.
Most 100mt sprints are like 100mt hurdles. You keep banging and falling before you reach the finish line!
A good author will look into the reviews and incorporate the changes and announce the same to his fans.
And thank them for their suggestions.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#15 ·
I agree with Will Edwards above. Product improvement in books is a marketing tool only for nonfiction work like textbooks and reference guides, where the reader might consult an updated edition to understand what has changed in the field. But I just don't think it applies to fiction, because readers only want to re-read something that really moved them, and if they felt that connection then any small errors didn't matter to them enough to seek a new edition.

progressmaker said:
Deliberate re-edits even if the novel is perfect.
So just changing things for the sake of changing them? I don't understand.

For the exact opposite of your approach, literally the opposite, search for "Michael Anderle" and his "minimum viable product" ideas for fiction.
 
#16 ·
progressmaker said:
I' talking about deliberate re-edits even after a book is validated and ready. These periodical passes can result in improved sales and conversion rates in the long-term. After all, writing business is like a marathon, a write-a-thon, and not a 100mt sprint. Sprinting and throwing stuff at readers result in slush pile. New subscribers can be gained in hundreds and thousands only because your re-edits made the LI and the chapters more awesome.
Re-writing the opening chapter is not a marketing strategy.
 
#18 ·
Re-writing only becomes a viable marketing tool when it's done to make sure that your backlist matches your current releases. Any writer will agree that your skills improve as you write more books. Your 20th book will likely be better than your first book. To prevent disappointment for someone who buys book 20 then goes on to buy Book 1, you might decide to re-edit.

I've re-edited a couple of my initial books and it is because of the above reasons. I'm several belts away from where I started and I wanted my earlier works to match my current expertise. However, I don't make a big deal out of these re-edits or call it the improved version. Mostly because that would imply that I deliberately gave my first readers substandard work.

All I do is make a new cover after the re-edit then re-introduce the book to members of my mailing list i.e. Have you read 'Title of Book'

Of course this doesn't apply to non-fiction because when NF launches a new improved version it's because there's new information it's giving.
 
#19 ·
CABarrett said:
I agree with Will Edwards above. Product improvement in books is a marketing tool only for nonfiction work like textbooks and reference guides, where the reader might consult an updated edition to understand what has changed in the field. But I just don't think it applies to fiction, because readers only want to re-read something that really moved them, and if they felt that connection then any small errors didn't matter to them enough to seek a new edition.

So just changing things for the sake of changing them? I don't understand.

For the exact opposite of your approach, literally the opposite, search for "Michael Anderle" and his "minimum viable product" ideas for fiction.
Once again, I'm talking about the impact on the new readers who will buy your books in the coming months, years, and decades.
I'm not at all talking about the existing customers, though all of them may not be resentful towards the changes introduced.
They will receive those updated novels only if they enable that option on their Amazon accounts.
And it is not changing for the sake of changing. If you see that there is nothing to change in that pass, then the novel can be left aside. It can be deliberately read once again after say six months.
Thanks for your reply.
 
#21 ·
RightHoJeeves said:
That may well be the case, but do you really think the 38 rounds of edits are why it became a best seller? Deliberately re-editing your book 38 times will not make it a best seller.
Maybe it was already doing well, I don't know. But maybe the sales grew exponentially with each pass?
Just imagine what this will do for a series because customers always go for that first episode.
 
#22 ·
A J Sika said:
Re-writing only becomes a viable marketing tool when it's done to make sure that your backlist matches your current releases. Any writer will agree that your skills improve as you write more books. Your 20th book will likely be better than your first book. To prevent disappointment for someone who buys book 20 then goes on to buy Book 1, you might decide to re-edit.

I've re-edited a couple of my initial books and it is because of the above reasons. I'm several belts away from where I started and I wanted my earlier works to match my current expertise. However, I don't make a big deal out of these re-edits or call it the improved version. Mostly because that would imply that I deliberately gave my first readers substandard work.

All I do is make a new cover after the re-edit then re-introduce the book to members of my mailing list i.e. Have you read 'Title of Book'

Of course this doesn't apply to non-fiction because when NF launches a new improved version it's because there's new information it's giving.
Your latest novel need not always be better than the first one. In fact, when one writes the first novel, one brings in a fresh voice. Thereafter, they bring along the same voice, plots, worlds, in modified forms. It is so difficult to get rid of one's style. Many established authors have successful first books but lose their creative shine as they move into their eleventh or twentieth book etc. I'm not mentioning you, but unless one writes in a series, don't you think that this is going to be a big challenge, unless the author does genre-hopping?
Also sometimes changing a cover would mean that you had previously provided a sub-standard cover. Not everyone likes the same cover!
Thanks for your reply.
 
#23 ·
progressmaker said:
"The special aura" is largely an intuitive thing (I think there is even a term for it), whereby you for some reason get drawn towards a particular book, and that only.
This will happen when you walk along a row of books in a library, and suddenly you get thrilled by looking at the particular book.
Of course, on Amazon, this will browsing and getting hooked on to a particular cover.
No, the effect you're describing is the emotional, subconscious impact something about the book (like the cover, title, blurb) has on a particular reader. Changing those elements will change a reader's immediate perception while browsing, because the elements are different and will connect with different readers in different ways compared to how the previous iteration would have. But editing or changing these things multiple times doesn't "charge" the book with energy. ;D
 
#24 ·
crow.bar.beer said:
No, the effect you're describing is the emotional, subconscious impact something about the book (like the cover, title, blurb) has on a particular reader. Changing those elements will change a reader's immediate perception while browsing, because the elements are different and will connect with different readers in different ways compared to how the previous iteration would have. But editing or changing these things multiple times doesn't "charge" the book with energy. ;D
It doesn't charge the book with energy. No hocus-pocus magic!
Look at it this way: Once you do a free promo or a BookBub with the novel that went through the passes, don't you think that the conversion rates will increase? They should!
Thanks for your reply.
 
#26 ·
progressmaker said:
Look at it this way: Once you do a free promo or a BookBub with the novel that went through the passes, don't you think that the conversion rates will increase?
If the changes were consequentially for the better, perhaps. There's a lot of different factors that can impact how a particular book will perform at a particular time, some of which are completely outside the author's control.
 
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