Author Topic: Box set scams on Passive Voice  (Read 87323 times)  

Offline CrazyHorze

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2017, 06:27:10 PM »
It took me less than $2k to make the list on my own.
But how many sales does it take to get on the list?

Offline AliceW

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2017, 06:28:59 PM »
But how many sales does it take to get on the list?

It depends on the time of year. For USA Today it could be anywhere from 5,000 to 12,000 sold in a week (including at least 500 from a non-Amazon retailer).

Offline Holly Dodd

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2017, 06:29:45 PM »
But how many sales does it take to get on the list?

It depends on the month/week. When pushing for it the aim is: 500 nook, 500 apple, 7k+ Amazon. That may get you, may not. To make NYT, 20,000+, and they've vetted off people who've sold 21k.

I am doing a wide run later on this year so I've been really researching everything on how to make a list.

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Offline CrazyHorze

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2017, 06:35:56 PM »
Thank you Alice and Holly for the numbers.

Offline Cheryl Douglas

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2017, 06:39:59 PM »
But how many sales does it take to get on the list?

It took me 8k, but that was in August.

Offline Usedtoposthere

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2017, 06:42:41 PM »
You also have a huge following. For those who are going the boxset route, they might not. I was watching JA Huss' videos (I love her). And she even said when she goes to make a list, she spends tens of thousands in a week when she's pushing to make a list. And there's also no gurantee that 7.5k will make the USA today. That's also just Amazon. Trying to tempt Nook and Itunes is a different animal all together, and you need them to make the list.

I'm not touching the "buying the own books" or gifting issue. That's a different animal. I honestly didn't realize (based on trial and error a friend did during a release) that gifting altered the rank. He said it didn't, so I don't have a horse in that race. If someone wants to gift, that's on them.
I realize my non-boosted numbers might not be enough to make a list. My point was that I'm not a big indie, and I can get those numbers. Big indies do much better.

My question is: in all seriousness, what good are these "letters" earned with thousands of dollars? Do they actually make anybody more money? In other words, does the fact of having this credential make you sell better afterwards, as opposed to somebody who got the letters because 10k people actually bought her (just her) book? It would seem to me that the letters would be more a consequence of popularity than a cause of it. I seem to see romance authors all the time with these letters, but they're not actually making much money. Which makes me wonder what the point is, if the exercise doesn't result in thousands of follow-up sales. 

Offline MonkishScribe

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2017, 06:45:01 PM »
But hey! You know what's super cool? Instead of rumors, people can actually join the FB group and see screenshots of advertising receipts, testimonies from people who have logged into my accounts an seen the ad spend first hand, and screenshots of preorder numbers (you can't gift a preorder).

So your launch strategy doesn't including the gifting of some specified number of copies? Are you declaring that all those people who said it does are wrong, or are you trying to split hairs between you buying gift copies and you requiring other people to gift them on behalf of the box set?

And why, if you're always on the up and up, are there just so many people who seem to have decided that you're operating in unethical space, to the point where you've had multiple public fights on Facebook, as well as blog posts, etc., all seeming to focus on your behavior. Are you telling me there are just that many jealous authors out there?

Offline JalexM

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2017, 06:45:46 PM »
I realize my non-boosted numbers might not be enough to make a list. My point was that I'm not a big indie, and I can get those numbers. Big indies do much better.

My question is: in all seriousness, what good are these "letters" earned with thousands of dollars? Do they actually make anybody more money? In other words, does the fact of having this credential make you sell better afterwards, as opposed to somebody who got the letters because 10k people actually bought her (just her) book? It would seem to me that the letters would be more a consequence of popularity than a cause of it. I seem to see romance authors all the time with these letters, but they're not actually making much money. Which makes me wonder what the point is, if the exercise doesn't result in thousands of follow-up sales.
It's all on how you use them. If you sit on your butt and do nothing, then it's useless. But if you build a marketing campaign around it, write a good enough book to keep the people who buy it, it can help boost your career. Of course, it isn't the instant fixer, but marketing wise, it is a very good thing to have.
Plus, with the thousands of sales, you should get some follow through if you wrote a good enough book.

Offline Elizabeth Ann West

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2017, 06:46:18 PM »
United Airlines dragged one person off the plane. Just one. And everyone agreed the company was in the wrong.

I think businesses should have refund policies in place and conduct their business professionally. And I won't do business with any company where owner throws temper tantrums publicly. Because if she can post bogus emails she called the sheriff on this person, or actually with me she ordered everyone who was our shared friends on Facebook to pick a side, which was pretty comical, as I have never and will never do business with her companies, anyway, what she does to others online and public she can do to any one of you in bed with her. And the saddest part of all is none of you can leave. Literally the best advice I could give to people worried they were tangled up already and would get bad reviews on their books and publicly shamed, I told them to just flake out. Just say you're sick, don't deliver, be a pity case. It's the safest way to get out. That's the reality many of us veterans of Kboards have had to deal with.

The scariest part of all, despite her followers constantly saying this is libel or defamation is that the organizer isn't even real. She's a real person, but the name she does business as isn't real. So even if anything ever comes of any of this, nothing will stop her from opening up shop the next day as Mary Sue.


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Offline CrazyHorze

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2017, 06:48:10 PM »
So your launch strategy doesn't including the gifting of some specified number of copies? Are you declaring that all those people who said it does are wrong, or are you trying to split hairs between you buying gift copies and you requiring other people to gift them on behalf of the box set?

And why, if you're always on the up and up, are there just so many people who seem to have decided that you're operating in unethical space, to the point where you've had multiple public fights on Facebook, as well as blog posts, etc., all seeming to focus on your behavior. Are you telling me there are just that many jealous authors out there?
She said she's dealing with a sick child. Do you mind attacking her on some other day. That would be mighty ethical of you. Thank you.

Offline Holly Dodd

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #85 on: April 28, 2017, 06:49:06 PM »
I realize my non-boosted numbers might not be enough to make a list. My point was that I'm not a big indie, and I can get those numbers. Big indies do much better.

My question is: in all seriousness, what good are these "letters" earned with thousands of dollars? Do they actually make anybody more money? In other words, does the fact of having this credential make you sell better afterwards, as opposed to somebody who got the letters because 10k people actually bought her (just her) book? It would seem to me that the letters would be more a consequence of popularity than a cause of it. I seem to see romance authors all the time with these letters, but they're not actually making much money. Which makes me wonder what the point is, if the exercise doesn't result in thousands of follow-up sales.

I think it's all about dreams and goals. It's kind of like why people still chase the trade publish dream. To them, that is their goal, being part of one of the Big Five would make them feel as if they've made it. Even if it might not make financial sense to me.

I sell okay. Better than I even suspected, and I'm on my way to a six-figure year. But, I'm in KU, and I don't want to put my solo books out wide. Not yet at least, and maybe not ever. So, why not aim for one of my goals (letters) without sacrificing my income?

Do I expect to sell better? No, I'd love to, but that's not why I would do a letter-making boxset. It's just to satisfy a dream, and then move on and being like "Cool, i did that, I have letters." Even if nothing more happens because of it, it would make me happy.

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Offline JalexM

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #86 on: April 28, 2017, 06:50:38 PM »
So your launch strategy doesn't including the gifting of some specified number of copies? Are you declaring that all those people who said it does are wrong, or are you trying to split hairs between you buying gift copies and you requiring other people to gift them on behalf of the box set?

And why, if you're always on the up and up, are there just so many people who seem to have decided that you're operating in unethical space, to the point where you've had multiple public fights on Facebook, as well as blog posts, etc., all seeming to focus on your behavior. Are you telling me there are just that many jealous authors out there?
Once again, those are all wrong.
I would implore you to show prove that they are, or everything you're saying is hearsay.
I would know, since I was in a recent box set of hers and we were required to do nothing of the sort. I have the numbers we've sold, we know where the money has gone, but you know, let's just listen to baseless accusations.
Or just keep ignoring my post.
United Airlines dragged one person off the plane. Just one. And everyone agreed the company was in the wrong.

I think businesses should have refund policies in place and conduct their business professionally. And I won't do business with any company where owner throws temper tantrums publicly. Because if she can post bogus emails she called the sheriff on this person, or actually with me she ordered everyone who was our shared friends on Facebook to pick a side, which was pretty comical, as I have never and will never do business with her companies, anyway, what she does to others online and public she can do to any one of you in bed with her. And the saddest part of all is none of you can leave. Literally the best advice I could give to people worried they were tangled up already and would get bad reviews on their books and publicly shamed, I told them to just flake out. Just say you're sick, don't deliver, be a pity case. It's the safest way to get out. That's the reality many of us veterans of Kboards have had to deal with.

The scariest part of all, despite her followers constantly saying this is libel or defamation is that the organizer isn't even real. She's a real person, but the name she does business as isn't real. So even if anything ever comes of any of this, nothing will stop her from opening up shop the next day as Mary Sue.
Strangely enough, you can easily find her real name, her husbands name, her kids name, all on facebook, under the name she uses to run her company. But according to you, she's some random Mary Sue.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 06:54:39 PM by JalexM »

Online brkingsolver

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #87 on: April 28, 2017, 06:51:21 PM »
My question is: in all seriousness, what good are these "letters" earned with thousands of dollars? Do they actually make anybody more money? In other words, does the fact of having this credential make you sell better afterwards, as opposed to somebody who got the letters because 10k people actually bought her (just her) book? It would seem to me that the letters would be more a consequence of popularity than a cause of it. I seem to see romance authors all the time with these letters, but they're not actually making much money. Which makes me wonder what the point is, if the exercise doesn't result in thousands of follow-up sales. 
I've always thought it was funny to see an author tout themselves as a "best selling author" and then see their books' ranks in the sale-a-week range. It's ephemeral.

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Offline Rick Gualtieri

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #88 on: April 28, 2017, 06:52:48 PM »
She said she's dealing with a sick child. Do you mind attacking her on some other day. That would be mighty ethical of you. Thank you.

Which has nothing to do with this conversation. 


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Offline MonkishScribe

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #89 on: April 28, 2017, 06:52:54 PM »
She said she's dealing with a sick child. Do you mind attacking her on some other day. That would be mighty ethical of you. Thank you.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Anyway, I'm typing this with my paws.


Offline Elizabeth Ann West

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #90 on: April 28, 2017, 06:55:00 PM »
I didn't say that, I said who she does business AS. Yes, many people have her real name.

Anyway, I said what I said because that was all I decided I could do to help. I've never worked with her, never will, I was harmed by own "organizer" type person early in my career. We "veterans" literally message each other "get out the popcorn..." when this stuff flares up about every other week.... I speak out on what I see, just the PUBLIC posts are enough to make any savvy person go "Wait, what?" And I speak out because unlike others, she can't claim I'm just a hater who didn't get a good promotion from her. Nope. It's just a spade being called a spade.

Now you will have to excuse me, I'm going to go make me a bowl. :)


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Offline JalexM

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #91 on: April 28, 2017, 06:56:45 PM »
With all due respect, I don't know you, but I do know people who say they were required to gift a certain number of copies. Maybe you didn't have to do that, or I suppose the people who said that might have been lying, but that seems unlikely to me.
Anything is certain on the internet.

Offline Holly Dodd

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #92 on: April 28, 2017, 06:58:11 PM »
With all due respect, I don't know you, but I do know people who say they were required to gift a certain number of copies. Maybe you didn't have to do that, or I suppose the people who said that might have been lying, but that seems unlikely to me.

You're stuck on this gifting thing. Do you realize the numbers don't add up? It takes over 8,000 books to make a list. What the hell are 100 copies or 500 copies going to really do if they don't have thousands of pre-orders/sales already?

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Offline JalexM

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #93 on: April 28, 2017, 07:00:21 PM »
You're stuck on this gifting thing. Do you realize the numbers don't add up? It takes over 8,000 books to make a list. What the hell are 100 copies or 500 copies going to really do if they don't have thousands of pre-orders/sales already?
And you can't gift preorders and you can only gift one at a time.
It would take a very long time to gift enough books to make any kind of list in release week.

Offline AliceW

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #94 on: April 28, 2017, 07:01:33 PM »
It takes over 8,000 books to make a list. What the hell are 100 copies or 500 copies going to really do if they don't have thousands of pre-orders/sales already?

Firstly it depends on the week, some people have hit the lists with a scant 5k in sales. Secondly we're talking gifting *thousands* of copies, not a couple of hundred. If you gift over 2,000 copies of a boxed set, that gets you nearly half way toward the 5k to hit a list in a quiet week.

Offline Holly Dodd

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #95 on: April 28, 2017, 07:02:04 PM »
And you can't gift preorders and you can only gift one at a time.
It would take a very long time to gift enough books to make any kind of list.

Exactly! And you have to calculate the margin of people who might not accept the gift. The time cost is just staggering to me. Couple that with how many boxsets she runs, and it's not logical at all to me. You would need an army.

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Offline BlouBryant

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #96 on: April 28, 2017, 07:03:19 PM »
Where is John Locke today?

I think Hobbes is winning this one.


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Offline Holly Dodd

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #97 on: April 28, 2017, 07:05:24 PM »
Firstly it depends on the week, some people have hit the lists with a scant 5k in sales. Secondly we're talking gifting *thousands* of copies, not a couple of hundred. If you gift over 2,000 copies of a boxed set, that gets you nearly half way toward the 5k to hit a list in a quiet week.

I can't wrap my head around someone gifting -thousands- of copies in five days (maybe a week if they are really up on the deadline). Remember you can't gift pre-orders and it has to be one at a time. So 2,000 copies in 5 days. I just can not logically see that happening.

I really think the numbers you heard are an exaggeration if not an outright lie. That is me just looking in as an outsider and simple logic/math.

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #98 on: April 28, 2017, 07:05:48 PM »
You're stuck on this gifting thing. Do you realize the numbers don't add up? It takes over 8,000 books to make a list. What the hell are 100 copies or 500 copies going to really do if they don't have thousands of pre-orders/sales already?
At $0.99 per book, $40,000 buys a lot of books. And yes, the amount I was asked for to buy into a boxed set was $2,000. I never could get a good answer as to how the money was going to be spent -- "advertising and promotion" -- and I bowed out.

And I'm getting really tired of people throwing the word "liar" around. I suggest you look up the words "defamation" and "libel" before using such words.

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Offline Holly Dodd

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Re: Box set scams on Passive Voice
« Reply #99 on: April 28, 2017, 07:09:28 PM »
At $0.99 per book, $40,000 buys a lot of books. And yes, the amount I was asked for to buy into a boxed set was $2,000. I never could get a good answer as to how the money was going to be spent -- "advertising and promotion" -- and I bowed out.

And I'm getting really tired of people throwing the word "liar" around. I suggest you look up the words "defamation" and "libel" before using such words.

Where did I call anyone a liar? Have you ever run FB ads, bookbub ads, and AMS ads? Let alone booking promotions like I love vampires or Bargain Booksy? I have. $40,000 to make the NYT wouldn't even make me bat an eyelash.

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