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Denny O'Callaghan is afraid to open his eyes.

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Then he gets a call: his ex-wife was murdered last night.

He desperately tries to piece together what happened. But he can't explain how he got the scratches on his arms, the police want to know about the domestic violence report his ex filed against him, and his buddies say he was raging against her last night before he stormed off on his own.

Right about the time she was murdered.

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Author Topic: Amazon's fake book problem  (Read 12992 times)  

Offline Alix Nichols

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #150 on: June 19, 2017, 12:03:38 PM »
Amazon doesn't crack down on stuffed books because Amazon considers them bundles. Bundles are kosher provided each of the bundled books is in KU. Amazon's algos can't tell the difference between stuffed books and regular boxed sets. Given that many legit boxed sets have a flat cover and dont list the individual books in their title, how can a machine tell which is which? The problem is, I dont think Amazon is willing to hire humans for that job.

Maybe someone clever and tech-savvy here can come up with an elegant solution which Amazon could implement at no (or little) cost? We could brainstorm it and then petition Mr. Bezos. After all, indie authors are his customers too, both as readers and as advertisers, and our satisfaction should count for something... ☺

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Online Amanda M. Lee

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #151 on: June 19, 2017, 12:10:58 PM »
Given that many legit boxed sets have a flat cover and dont list the individual books in their title, how can a machine tell which is which?something... ☺
It's actually quite easy. They have plagiarism detectors. I honestly think that's why we've been hearing about an increase in copyright requests. Something is coming down the pike would be my guess. Basically the bots scan the text uploaded, and if it shows up more than once in KU, there's a problem.

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Online Morgan Worth

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #152 on: June 19, 2017, 12:14:04 PM »
That's a common misconception. The Constitution generally has no bearing on KBoards or any other private entity, and the First Amendment is an excellent example of this principle. You alluded to this very fact when you mentioned forum decorum and when you said--quite rightly--that erotica authors haven't been treated well here. Censorship is perfectly legal on a privately held forum.

Whether or not you can second-guess Jeff, I think we should all be circumspect. He's done a lot for us. KDP and KU have been very good to a lot of authors and a lot of readers, foibles notwithstanding.

He's done a lot to grow his business. Sometimes that benefits us. That's very different from doing a lot FOR us.
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Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #153 on: June 19, 2017, 12:30:39 PM »
Without Amazon, where would most of us be?

Hopefully it gets better.

Offline Dolphin

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #154 on: June 19, 2017, 12:59:09 PM »
He's done a lot to grow his business. Sometimes that benefits us. That's very different from doing a lot FOR us.

I dunno what more you can expect from a capitalist in a capitalist economy. Nobody was going to build Amazon for us purely out of the goodness of his own heart. Anybody who'd tried wouldn't have succeeded nearly as well, because we benefit from Amazon's ruthless, expansionistic agenda.

Borders never grew out of being a bookseller, and look how they ended up.

Online Morgan Worth

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #155 on: June 19, 2017, 01:05:25 PM »
I dunno what more you can expect from a capitalist in a capitalist economy. Nobody was going to build Amazon for us purely out of the goodness of his own heart. Anybody who'd tried wouldn't have succeeded nearly as well, because we benefit from Amazon's ruthless, expansionistic agenda.

Borders never grew out of being a bookseller, and look how they ended up.

I don't expect more. It's not his job to do anything for us. That was kind of my point. :)
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Offline Shelley K

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #156 on: June 19, 2017, 02:11:09 PM »
I've been through the thread three times searching and can't seem to find any posts bashing erotica.

If you don't think the one I remembered off the top of my head is doing that, then we simply have different perspectives on it and aren't going to agree about it. There's nothing to be done about that.

Online Lauriejoyeltahs

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #157 on: June 19, 2017, 02:36:31 PM »
Slightly off the argument on hand and back towards the first of this, my daughter downloaded a free book two days ago on her kindle. Last night she was telling me, that while she really enjoyed the second book in this book, she was annoyed that only the first chapter was at the beginning then she was directed to go to page something like 372 ( I don't remember the number) to read the rest of the first book. I've read a lot of you guys complaining about this, but it's the first time I have actually seen it. I know she downloaded it from the top 100 free list by genre  because I showed her how to find that the same day she downloaded the book, after she expressed issues finding free books.

I personally hardly ever download free books because a few months back I ran into three or four in a row that were single chapters from a dozen different books geared at getting me to buy the full version of each. That being said I have downloaded a few that were legit books in the past that I did continue on to read and purchase  the sequels, but these experiences certainly can put a sour taste in readers mouth.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #158 on: June 19, 2017, 03:15:09 PM »
Slightly off the argument on hand and back towards the first of this, my daughter downloaded a free book two days ago on her kindle. Last night she was telling me, that while she really enjoyed the second book in this book, she was annoyed that only the first chapter was at the beginning then she was directed to go to page something like 372 ( I don't remember the number) to read the rest of the first book.

Wow, that is low. Makes me angry.

Offline Salome Golding

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #159 on: June 19, 2017, 04:20:02 PM »
When KU1 came around, a lot of people (including me) jumped on the erotica shorts bandwagon. Some quit jobs based on the money they were making, and then Amazon took it all away with, what, a 15 day notice or something like that? Sorry, but people had a right to be upset. I can't say I was surprised when it happened, I was just surprised it happened so damn fast. "Oh by the way, next month we're introducing KU2! Good luck!" People had a right to be upset. You're free to think that people were foolish to think it would last, but legitimate authors had a right to be upset when Amazon screwed them over without much warning.

People had a *right* to be upset? "Amazon *screwed* them over?" Wow. How? Why? By not paying them money they hadn't earned yet, because it did not make financial sense to Amazon, a for-profit business? Had these people entered into a contract with Amazon whereby Amazon promised that they would forever more be able to earn their living from Amazon? Had Amazon gotten down on bended knee and whispered in their ears promises of a bed of Benjamins if only they went off into the sunset with Bezos? Or did the terms and conditions of a loose commercial relationship simply change?

I am astounded that anyone would think that Amazon owed them a living and that they were entitled to it.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 04:39:15 PM by Salome Golding »

Offline Salome Golding

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #160 on: June 19, 2017, 04:28:05 PM »
I think people are lumping KU1 shorts writers together with KU1 scammers - and that's not really fair.
...

But Amanda is right, there others who were publishing gibberish books just to get the 10% payout. But please don't lump all shorts writers into that boat, because it's not fair.

But see, no one did that. I saw someone post critically about those who during KU1 purposely & artificially split up a book into multiple books to produce pamphlets set to open at 10% so that each part would trigger a payout.

Then people came in the thread saying, "Are you saying that writing erotic shorts during KU1 was unethical???" Which sent the discussion on a long, contentious detour littered with red herrings and straw men. Response ricocheted against response so that people did find something to argue about.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 04:41:29 PM by Salome Golding »

Offline Salome Golding

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #161 on: June 19, 2017, 04:36:32 PM »
I'm not trying to badger you. The point I'm trying to make is that none of this is clearcut, and ethical arguments are difficult to sustain in this territory.

I think Laran made it clear that he/she will do what *feels* ethical to him/her (Apologies, I'm not sure of gender). I don't think Laran is trying to make any kind of "ethical argument" or arrive at what is right by consensus or philosophical debate, so I'm not sure of the relevance of the Socratic questions in your response. Laran will listen to his / her own "inner ear".

For me personally, the test would be: Does this move benefit only me, or am I delivering value at the standard to which I hold myself, and the value that my customers have paid for?

Everyone has their own test.

Offline NeedWant

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #162 on: June 19, 2017, 04:48:00 PM »
I am astounded that anyone would think that Amazon owed them a living and that they were entitled to it.

I am astounded you're astounded at something I never said.

If Amazon suddenly announced that next month a page read will be worth 0.0005, you don't think authors will have a right to be upset and feel like they've just been screwed over? And since KU is a three month exclusivity agreement between the author and Amazon, a three month heads up to any drastic changes to the program would be nice.

But see, no one did that. I saw someone post critically about those who during KU1 purposely & artificially split up a book into multiple books to produce pamphlets set to open at 10% so that each part would trigger a payout.

Amanda lumped serial writers in with people doing that.

Quote
Then people came in the thread saying, "Are you saying that writing erotic shorts during KU1 was unethical???" Which sent the discussion on a long road littered with red herrings and straw men. Response ricocheted against response so that people did find something to argue about.

BR has ignored multiple questions about the "coming clean" comment after I said I wrote erotica shorts during KU1. Unless BR decides to explain what s/he meant, I'm going to take that comment as it sounded: that writing shorts was somehow unethical or shameful during KU1.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 06:45:17 PM by NeedWant »

Offline Ann in Arlington

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #163 on: June 20, 2017, 04:35:18 AM »
Slightly off the argument on hand and back towards the first of this, my daughter downloaded a free book two days ago on her kindle. Last night she was telling me, that while she really enjoyed the second book in this book, she was annoyed that only the first chapter was at the beginning then she was directed to go to page something like 372 ( I don't remember the number) to read the rest of the first book. I've read a lot of you guys complaining about this, but it's the first time I have actually seen it. I know she downloaded it from the top 100 free list by genre  because I showed her how to find that the same day she downloaded the book, after she expressed issues finding free books.

I personally hardly ever download free books because a few months back I ran into three or four in a row that were single chapters from a dozen different books geared at getting me to buy the full version of each. That being said I have downloaded a few that were legit books in the past that I did continue on to read and purchase  the sequels, but these experiences certainly can put a sour taste in readers mouth.

That's something I'd report to Amazon on the book page for sure and also by complaining to kindle CS and maybe even an email to jeff@amazon.com.

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Online Amanda M. Lee

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #164 on: June 20, 2017, 05:39:41 AM »


Amanda lumped serial writers in with people doing that.

No, my exact quote was: "People were purposely writing 20-page serials with no ending and no story structure just in the hope that people would open it so they could get a payout."
I have no problem with true serials. True serials are an art form of their own. What we were getting was not true serials. Breaking a book apart just so you could get a higher payout, was not a true serial. I have no problem with erotica (I like reading it a great deal, in fact) and I have no problem with true serials. I do have a problem with scamphlets designed to open at 10 percent. I do have a problem with breaking a book apart. I have a problem with bonus books and padding titles with extra content just to squeeze more of a payment out (although I'm hearing rumblings that something seems to be in the works for that and I'm intrigued to find out more).

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Offline NeedWant

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #165 on: June 20, 2017, 05:56:12 AM »
No, my exact quote was: "People were purposely writing 20-page serials with no ending and no story structure just in the hope that people would open it so they could get a payout."
I have no problem with true serials. True serials are an art form of their own. What we were getting was not true serials. Breaking a book apart just so you could get a higher payout, was not a true serial. I have no problem with erotica (I like reading it a great deal, in fact) and I have no problem with true serials. I do have a problem with scamphlets designed to open at 10 percent. I do have a problem with breaking a book apart. I have a problem with bonus books and padding titles with extra content just to squeeze more of a payment out (although I'm hearing rumblings that something seems to be in the works for that and I'm intrigued to find out more).

See, I'm not even sure what "no ending" (cliffhangers?) and "no structure" means in this context? And what's a "true serial" anyway?

IMO, if the serials you have a problem with were popular, readers obviously thought they were good enough. If they weren't popular, then I don't really see the big deal? It's not like those authors would be getting paid anyway.

That would be akin to me saying that novelists whose novels I think are terrible are somehow scamming KU2. But if readers are borrowing/buying and liking those novels in droves, then obviously they think those novels are good enough.


Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #166 on: June 20, 2017, 06:01:53 AM »
I don't think there really is a big deal about it. I'm an erotica author who hated endless chapters offered individually, so I didn't write them.

Amazon wanted to make the reader experience better and cut back on the deluge of instant royalty book openings. While it might have been within the rules at the time, I considered it shameful. Unethical.

But, that was just my conscience and opinion. Things changed and some authors who were relying on all that cash got hurt. Well, we all have to adapt.

Online Amanda M. Lee

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #167 on: June 20, 2017, 06:16:28 AM »
See, I'm not even sure what "no ending" (cliffhangers?) and "no structure" means in this context? And what's a "true serial" anyway?

IMO, if the serials you have a problem with were popular, readers obviously thought they were good enough. If they weren't popular, then I don't really see the big deal? It's not like those authors would be getting paid anyway.

That would be akin to me saying that novelists whose novels I think are terrible are somehow scamming KU2. But if readers are borrowing/buying and liking those novels in droves, then obviously they think those novels are good enough.
A true serial may very well have a cliffhanger but it also wraps up the conflict from that particular installment by the end of the book. Authors were designing them to be so short that they opened at 10 percent. So, if a reader did have a problem, it wouldn't matter if they quit reading because they would've already triggered a payout.  True serials are like episodes of television. They might have a cliffhanger but they have a full story all to themselves in that particular episode. That's not what we saw. That's not what happens when a book is broken apart in to chapters. If you don't agree, that's fine. A lot of people didn't agree, which is why we had the change. I personally found it unethical (and no, I'm not calling erotica or true serials unethical, just the scamming tactics people used under KU1 to trigger extra payouts). Clearly Amazon found it to be a problem, too, because now we have KU2. Amazon finds the bonus books to be a problem in KU2, so changes are coming. Whether that will lead to KU3 or just a tweak to KU2, who knows. I truly felt sorry for those who were taken by surprise by what happened with KU1. From Amazon's point of view, though, I understood why they did it when they did it. If they announced they were changing things say in two months, they would've gotten two months of screaming complaints and threats. By truncating the timetable they still got the complaints but it was already in motion. It was terrible for the authors being decimated. It's going to be terrible when the next change decimates bottom lines, too, including mine. It will happen, though.
For the record, I think basing your business practices on KU for the long term is a bad decision. I certainly don't expect it to be there for the long haul. It's never going to stay exactly the same way for a long period of time because people are determined to scam the system (in multiple ways). Believe it or not, Amazon is trying to build a solid ecosystem for KU and the scammers are forcing their hand and causing sweeping edicts and nuclear reactions. So, if you want to do something short term with KU in mind, that's great. That money is not a guarantee, though. That's why I focus on my books and sales and consider KU money a great bonus that I'm willing to sock away for my retirement fund. Making a long-term plan around a program like KU, though, is not something I'm doing for myself because it's too unstable.

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Offline notjohn

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #168 on: June 20, 2017, 06:35:24 AM »
Quote
if the serials you have a problem with were popular, readers obviously thought they were good enough.

Okay, so Stephen King breaks his latest thriller into 100 parts. A reader enjoys it and downloads the episodes at the rate of ten a day for ten days. So Mr King (under the old system) got a payout of $200. The reader is satisfied, or he wouldn't have done it; Mr King obviously is satisfied. So Jeff Bezos should have been prohibited from changing the system?

If you don't like the way KU is shaping up, you can always get out of Select and sell the book only, and sell it as well through Barnes & Noble, Apple, and the lesser players. That's what I do, and I make more money that way.

Offline NeedWant

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #169 on: June 20, 2017, 06:41:28 AM »
A true serial may very well have a cliffhanger but it also wraps up the conflict from that particular installment by the end of the book. Authors were designing them to be so short that they opened at 10 percent. So, if a reader did have a problem, it wouldn't matter if they quit reading because they would've already triggered a payout.  True serials are like episodes of television. They might have a cliffhanger but they have a full story all to themselves in that particular episode. That's not what we saw. That's not what happens when a book is broken apart in to chapters. If you don't agree, that's fine. A lot of people didn't agree, which is why we had the change. I personally found it unethical (and no, I'm not calling erotica or true serials unethical, just the scamming tactics people used under KU1 to trigger extra payouts). Clearly Amazon found it to be a problem, too, because now we have KU2. Amazon finds the bonus books to be a problem in KU2, so changes are coming. Whether that will lead to KU3 or just a tweak to KU2, who knows. I truly felt sorry for those who were taken by surprise by what happened with KU1. From Amazon's point of view, though, I understood why they did it when they did it. If they announced they were changing things say in two months, they would've gotten two months of screaming complaints and threats. By truncating the timetable they still got the complaints but it was already in motion. It was terrible for the authors being decimated. It's going to be terrible when the next change decimates bottom lines, too, including mine. It will happen, though.

I can get how someone might think arbitrarily breaking up a book into parts is unethical. I don't get how writing serials so that they would open at 10% is seen as unethical, though.

You say you have no problem with erotica shorts but a lot of those are 5k words and I'm pretty sure open around 10% or close to it. So if writer A always wrote 5k shorts even before KU1, should they up the word count of their shorts so as not to take advantage of the 10% thing? Or can they write like they always have? And if writer B comes along and decides that 5k shorts are more profitable so they'll write those, is their behavior unethical because they specifically wrote those shorts to take advantage of the 10% payout?

All these writers have to have a good enough product to attract readers with. And if they want to keep readers coming back, they have to provide good stories as well.

Quote
For the record, I think basing your business practices on KU for the long term is a bad decision. I certainly don't expect it to be there for the long haul. It's never going to stay exactly the same way for a long period of time because people are determined to scam the system (in multiple ways). Believe it or not, Amazon is trying to build a solid ecosystem for KU and the scammers are forcing their hand and causing sweeping edicts and nuclear reactions. So, if you want to do something short term with KU in mind, that's great. That money is not a guarantee, though. That's why I focus on my books and sales and consider KU money a great bonus that I'm willing to sock away for my retirement fund. Making a long-term plan around a program like KU, though, is not something I'm doing for myself because it's too unstable.

That's a very smart way to go about it. I agree that KU is not something writers should rely on. I think the introduction of KU2 made that clear to a lot of writers.

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #170 on: June 20, 2017, 06:43:50 AM »

If you don't like the way KU is shaping up, you can always get out of Select and sell the book only, and sell it as well through Barnes & Noble, Apple, and the lesser players. That's what I do, and I make more money that way.
You make more money than who? Do you make more than the $40,000 a month that I know one UF author makes, nearly 70% of which is from page reads? Do you make more than Amanda Lee, who also has her books in Select? I doubt it. Since you think everyone but you should disclose their books for everyone to investigate, there is no way of telling, is there?

Not everyone can make Select work for them, but those who don't make it work, don't jump on every opportunity they can to denounce the program. They keep quiet, wish the others luck and find another way. Perhaps that's a system you should try.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 06:54:42 AM by Doglover »


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Offline NeedWant

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #171 on: June 20, 2017, 06:46:57 AM »
Okay, so Stephen King breaks his latest thriller into 100 parts. A reader enjoys it and downloads the episodes at the rate of ten a day for ten days. So Mr King (under the old system) got a payout of $200. The reader is satisfied, or he wouldn't have done it; Mr King obviously is satisfied. So Jeff Bezos should have been prohibited from changing the system?

If you don't like the way KU is shaping up, you can always get out of Select and sell the book only, and sell it as well through Barnes & Noble, Apple, and the lesser players. That's what I do, and I make more money that way.

Serials are meant to be shorter. They're not comparable to breaking up a novel into parts.

Also, I don't think Amazon should have kept KU1 if it wasn't going as planned. I do think writers deserved a heads up. Announcing it 15 days in advance was not only shameful but unethical as well.

As a novelist, I'm fine with KU at the moment, so don't plan on going wide unless they change it for the worse again.

Offline Salome Golding

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #172 on: June 20, 2017, 08:01:18 AM »

If Amazon suddenly announced that next month a page read will be worth 0.0005, you don't think authors will have a right to be upset and feel like they've just been screwed over?

Being "screwed over" implies some kind of malicious intent or betrayal. The move from KU1 to KU2 was a bit different from the scenario you describe above, which is what you were talking about and what I specifically responded to. I saw Amazon's action in moving from KU1 to KU2 as simply a business decision to move from a model that was unsustainable financially for them and not delivering value to their customers. Where chopping up of books was talking place, why would they continue to make multiple payments of $1.30 on a book that they could have paid a royalty of 70% of 99 cents for a straight sale? There could be no justification for that choice in a for-profit company operating in a capitalist economy.


Amanda lumped serial writers in with people doing that.

BR has ignored multiple questions about the "coming clean" comment after I said I wrote erotica shorts during KU1. Unless BR decides to explain what s/he meant, I'm going to take that comment as it sounded: that writing shorts was somehow unethical or shameful during KU1.
Actually, I don't think Amanda did that. You quoted her comment just before your first post, and I was left thinking, "How is this a response to what Amanda posted???"  ???

BR's comment was out of bounds but it came *after* your initial comment defending yourself against an accusation no one had made.

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #173 on: June 20, 2017, 08:47:08 AM »
My only quibble with this and the previous post is that you're using past tense. A few posts in this thread are pretty good evidence against that. The fact that it's a thread about Amazon's fake book problem, and we all know what that is, and it somehow becomes a condemnation of short erotica writers in KU1, says it all. And in other threads we've got people saying using Vellum is hacking. Back to the old saw that if you're not doing it my way, you're wrong.

We all inherently know if we're doing something wrong. I've never needed anyone else to define right and wrong for me, even when I was a kid. I doubt anybody else here does either.

True, past tense when it's still happening. My bad!

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Whether or not you can second-guess Jeff, I think we should all be circumspect. He's done a lot for us. KDP and KU have been very good to a lot of authors and a lot of readers, foibles notwithstanding.

OMG, really? We need to be circumspect? What's he going to do, close Amazon because people aren't being completely nice? The program is faulty, the bots are faulty, there are issues, and there's nothing wrong with talking about it. Goodness knows, it's not like the folks over at the Zon don't know this stuff is happening. We aren't sharing any state secrets here.

By the way, forum decorum is not censorship.

Amanda, the stuff about erotica authors being dissed that I was talking about wasn't in this thread, though there have been statements made that weren't really supportive. I was using it as an example for something else. Sorry for any confusion. But, ever since I've been a member, people have been down on erotica writers. It's not as bad as it used to be, but then, most of them have left kboards since there's no more linking to erotic content and the discussion of it is limited.

The truth remains that people were treated horribly, insulted and called scammers, simply for writing short fiction. Someone at Amazon set it up so the KUv1 payment started after ten percent. Should people have cheated and had books skipping to that point? No, I think it was dishonest. Why didn't someone see that it would happen? Why didn't someone realize that short fiction was going to flood KU for the flat payment? Many of us foresaw the issue. Even I did, and I'm not that savvy about such stuff.

People tried to point out that KUv2 was going to encourage people to pad books in whatever way, and to figure out other ways of getting something over on Amazon. It wasn't that hard to see it. Why didn't Amazon see it? They act like this is some surprise, or else deny it's happening, but it's obvious to us and to readers.

For the record, I never did anything scammy in KU. My books opened at the beginning, it was clear what they were, there were no bonus junk, no padding, no weird translation crap. They weren't double-spaced, formatted with huge fonts, nor any other trick to make huge numbers of KENPC. People knew what they were getting, and they could download/borrow/buy as they pleased. If they pleased.
Queen of Procrasti Nation

Genres: speculative fiction under main pen name.




Offline NeedWant

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Re: Amazon's fake book problem
« Reply #174 on: June 20, 2017, 12:49:11 PM »
Being "screwed over" implies some kind of malicious intent or betrayal. The move from KU1 to KU2 was a bit different from the scenario you describe above, which is what you were talking about and what I specifically responded to. I saw Amazon's action in moving from KU1 to KU2 as simply a business decision to move from a model that was unsustainable financially for them and not delivering value to their customers. Where chopping up of books was talking place, why would they continue to make multiple payments of $1.30 on a book that they could have paid a royalty of 70% of 99 cents for a straight sale? There could be no justification for that choice in a for-profit company operating in a capitalist economy.

There doesn't have to malicious intent for someone to feel screwed over. Also, it was a deep pay cut (hence my example) because most erotica sold at $2.99 a pop not $0.99 (of which the author gets 35%) before KU1 came along.

I'm not begrudging Amazon for the change, but I am holding them responsible for the way it was made. And I am holding them responsible for paying by the page when they don't even have a way to properly count one.

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Actually, I don't think Amanda did that. You quoted her comment just before your first post, and I was left thinking, "How is this a response to what Amanda posted???"  ???

Not sure what post you're referring to here. You can look at the serial discussion above on this page. Amanda feels that there are strict rules that serials must follow. The same could be said about novels, so I don't really see that as a useful example.

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BR's comment was out of bounds but it came *after* your initial comment defending yourself against an accusation no one had made.

I'm not sure what initial comment you're talking about where I'm defending myself. Could you quote me?

For clarity's sake, my main problem when someone says people are scamming KU1 by writing shorts/serials that open at 10% is that they would never say that someone deciding to write longer books in KU2 so that they could get a higher payout is scamming.

KU1 rewarded shorts. So people wrote them.

KU2 rewards longer books. So people write them.

As long as both writers write books that readers actually want to read, I don't think either of them are scamming the system. They're working within it.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 12:54:00 PM by NeedWant »