Author Topic: KENPC 0.0042229 for June  (Read 12089 times)  

Offline Eric Thomson

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Gender: Male
  • The Great White North
    • View Profile
    • Eric Thomson's Sci-Fi Worlds
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2017, 06:43:00 PM »
You would be completely wrong. There is a good career to be made outside the poisonous KU ecosystem. Many of us are doing it.
Quoted for the truth.  Amazon won't fix KU until readers abandon it in droves because it's overrun by dreck.  Amazon is all about customer experience.  As long as legit authors willing to take a haircut every month outweigh scammers,  the readers won't leave.  It's a mug's game.  If you place your author career at the whim of Amazon's capriciousness, complaining about scammers and dropping KU revenues sounds hollow.  Petitions and emails to Bezos are BS.  You want Amazon to fix KU, hit it where it hurts.  Go on strike .  Go wide.   If you're not willing to walk, do us a favor and cut the talk.


Eric Thomson | Blog | Facebook | Website

Online Patty Jansen

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 11437
  • Gender: Female
  • Sydney, Australia
  • Destroyer of Science Fiction
    • View Profile
    • Patty Jansen Author of SF and fantasy
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2017, 06:52:37 PM »
Quoted for the truth.  Amazon won't fix KU until readers abandon it in droves because it's overrun by dreck.  Amazon is all about customer experience.  As long as legit authors willing to take a haircut every month outweigh scammers,  the readers won't leave.  It's a mug's game.  If you place your author career at the whim of Amazon's capriciousness, complaining about scammers and dropping KU revenues sounds hollow.  Petitions and emails to Bezos are BS.  You want Amazon to fix KU, hit it where it hurts.  Go on strike .  Go wide.   If you're not willing to walk, do us a favor and cut the talk.

Yup. For those who say "Not gonna happen", I offer you the memory of KU1.

Offline dgaughran

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3291
  • Gender: Male
  • Dublin
  • Let's Get Digital
    • View Profile
    • David Gaughran
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2017, 07:06:28 PM »
Mike is a legitimate author and used to be a member here on kboards.

*clears throat forever*

David Gaughran | mailing list | blog | website | facebook | twitter
LET'S GET DIGITAL 2 Free for purchasers of the 1st edition! Instructions here

Online Going Incognito

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1391
  • Gender: Female
  • It's always the quiet ones...
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2017, 07:22:11 PM »
Yup. For those who say "Not gonna happen", I offer you the memory of KU1.

Wasn't that due to customer complaints of too much smut in KU? If it was customers emailing and petitioning regarding scammers, yeah I could see that changing things, but authors/vendors? Ebooks are a small sliver of Zon. If the vendors in other departments complaining about their actual physical widgets being counterfeit-sold like back room purses got the shaft, why would us makers of digitally-downloadable-a-million-times-per-file producers be listened to?

Offline Crystal_

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2024
  • Gender: Female
  • Portland, OR
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2017, 07:28:14 PM »
Wasn't that due to customer complaints of too much smut in KU? If it was customers emailing and petitioning regarding scammers, yeah I could see that changing things, but authors/vendors? Ebooks are a small sliver of Zon. If the vendors in other departments complaining about their actual physical widgets being counterfeit-sold like back room purses got the shaft, why would us makers of digitally-downloadable-a-million-times-per-file producers be listened to?

I think it was excessive "serializing" as much as anything. A lot of authors were splitting up novels by a chapter or three rather than offering a true serial. It made readers feel ripped off. There's nothing that gets readers complaining faster than cliffhanger.

Online Patty Jansen

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 11437
  • Gender: Female
  • Sydney, Australia
  • Destroyer of Science Fiction
    • View Profile
    • Patty Jansen Author of SF and fantasy
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2017, 07:30:22 PM »
Wasn't that due to customer complaints of too much smut in KU? If it was customers emailing and petitioning regarding scammers, yeah I could see that changing things, but authors/vendors? Ebooks are a small sliver of Zon. If the vendors in other departments complaining about their actual physical widgets being counterfeit-sold like back room purses got the shaft, why would us makers of digitally-downloadable-a-million-times-per-file producers be listened to?

Who is saying that customers aren't complaining? If the offerings in KU become too scammy to wade through (and in some places they already are), then I betcha that people complain. It's up to Amazon to decide when they'll wield the sledgehammer and upset the whole system, costing legitimate authors 90% of their earnings (still hearing the wails after KU1 became KU2).

Online DanaFraser

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2017, 07:46:14 PM »
It wasn't $40. It was up to 40% off if you bought the 2 year sub, which was $140 or so. I bought the 1 year which then came out to 80something, instead of the $120 it would have been. If it had bee $40, trust me, us readers would have been all over that and spread it like wildfire.

Heh - ok, here's the deal. I talked to her. She clicked within the first minute, got a pop-up that said she was the first to take advantage of the offer. I of course cannot verify that, but I saw the invoice and it gave her a double credit of 39.56 prime savings.

Offline MattHaggis

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #57 on: July 14, 2017, 08:05:09 PM »
Mike is a legitimate author and used to be a member here on kboards.

Legitimate... I guess it's all in how you define it. He has been blacklisted from forums for very bad behavior, and somehow despite being relatively unknown in fantasy circles he has more Twitter and Facebook followers than the actual top fantasy writers around today.

Online Monique

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 10981
  • Gender: Female
  • California
    • View Profile
    • Written by Monique
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #58 on: July 14, 2017, 08:06:12 PM »
As far as I know he's been using black hat shenanigans for quite some time.

Monique Martin | author website | facebook | twitter

Online Going Incognito

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1391
  • Gender: Female
  • It's always the quiet ones...
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2017, 08:19:58 PM »
How many readers are going to even notice Dragonsoul is number one in the whole store, let alone complain about it?
Authors scour Amazon's book ins and outs like it's our job. (Lol)
Readers? If they happen to come across a scam book it's at a way lesser rate than we do. Most people arent complainers/reporters. They roll their eyes and scroll on by, prob thinking, "Weird. How'd that get there?" *next page*
If Birkenstock pulled everything from Amazon because of scammers, if the NFL/Amazon talks stalled because of fakes, they've got bigger things on their to-do list than listen to us.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 08:46:03 PM by Going Incognito »

Offline TwistedTales

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2017, 09:47:21 PM »
Quoted for the truth.  Amazon won't fix KU until readers abandon it in droves because it's overrun by dreck.  Amazon is all about customer experience.  As long as legit authors willing to take a haircut every month outweigh scammers,  the readers won't leave.  It's a mug's game.  If you place your author career at the whim of Amazon's capriciousness, complaining about scammers and dropping KU revenues sounds hollow.  Petitions and emails to Bezos are BS.  You want Amazon to fix KU, hit it where it hurts.  Go on strike .  Go wide.   If you're not willing to walk, do us a favor and cut the talk.

Amazon are in the power trip phase of their business lifecycle. In this phase they believe they're indestructible and suppliers and customers are dumbasses who don't understand their brilliance. They genuinely believe they're the masters and we're the morons they can bend to their will/business plan.

This phase ends with suppliers and customers walking away in disgust. Once a company has developed this degree of critical mass and churn it takes a while for the truth to penetrate their corporate hide.

They'll get over themselves when they realize enough of us are over them.

 8)

Offline TwistedTales

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2017, 09:51:46 PM »
Go look at what's #1 in the paid Kindle store right now. A perfect example of why payout keeps dropping.

And this is why a KU download shouldn't count the same as a sale on the ranking system. A download requires no money down other than the generic subscription. Making a download equivalent to a sale is promoting scamming.

In the end, no reader will trust Amazon's completely corrupt ranking system - no matter how many "extra special", "super duper", "this is the the real deal" additional lists they create.

Offline TwistedTales

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 845
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2017, 10:05:46 PM »
This is what the trend looks like since Jan 2016 (was easiest to exclude 2015), with peaks and valleys labelled with their max and min.

This isn't, quite, the lowest it's ever been but it's working on it.



If I were a cynic I'd think in 2016 Amazon tried to reset individual author earning expectations by changing the definition of a page read. They abandoned that tactic after the authors had a huge a tantrum and began withdrawing their books from KU. Now, in 2017, they're reducing individual author earning expectations by lowering the page rate.

The intent is to reduce author margins so Amazon can pay less to the author and pass those savings onto the consumer.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 10:07:37 PM by TwistedTales »

Online Becca Mills

  • Moderator
  • Status: Emily Dickinson
  • *****
  • Posts: 8213
  • Gender: Female
  • California
  • Beware the yellow snowball.
    • View Profile
    • The Active Voice
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2017, 10:32:14 PM »
Folks, we have a longstanding rule of not providing Amazon links to books under critical discussion, here. I'll be going through the thread to remove them. Posts that consist only of such a link will be removed.

Edited: Reopening.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 10:49:40 PM by Becca Mills »




Offline Doglover

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Gender: Female
  • Huntingdon, United Kingdom
  • If you want real love, buy a dog.
    • View Profile
    • Margaret Brazear Author
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2017, 12:18:15 AM »
I actually read the email today telling me about the fund. Usually I don't bother, since 18million doesn't mean a lot unless I am getting the lot. I've only just noticed that it says Amazon will continue to pay the all star bonus for books that are read more than others. Yet they only pay out for page reads, not for sales. They have no idea that the sold books aren't getting read as much as or more than the KU ones.

I don't see KU lasting myself. I joined once to see what I could find to read and there was hardly anything there that I wanted to read.


The past is another country; they do things differently there
Margaret Brazear | Website | Blog | Facebook | Readers Group | Comic Covers

Offline she-la-ti-da

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 5810
  • in the bunker
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2017, 04:01:52 AM »
Customers are complaining. That's why we got what some are calling KUv3, though I think it was more of a v2.5 deal. The thing is, until all authors walk away from KU, nothing we say or do is going to change anything. And all authors won't walk away, because everywhere you go, people are pushing being in KU (more visibility, borrows count for rank), and there are some people who have no idea anything is going on until they start wondering why they aren't insta-millionaires. Then they come to the forums, especially KDP, and whine and rant.
Queen of Procrasti Nation

Genres: speculative fiction under main pen name.




Offline Rick Partlow

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 173
  • Gender: Male
  • Central Florida, USA
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2017, 04:07:41 AM »
Then, of course, there are those who make most of their money from KU page reads even with the reduced payout.  They aren't going to walk away because it makes zero sense financially.

Offline JsFan

  • Status: Madeleine L'Engle
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2017, 04:17:42 AM »
The thing is, until all authors walk away from KU, nothing we say or do is going to change anything. And all authors won't walk away, because everywhere you go, people are pushing being in KU (more visibility, borrows count for rank), and there are some people who have no idea anything is going on until they start wondering why they aren't insta-millionaires. Then they come to the forums, especially KDP, and whine and rant.

I don't think all authors have to leave. If 40% of authors and 40% to 60% of subscribers left, I think Amazon would sit up. All customers didn't have to leave Uber for Uber to do something about the harrassers it had hired.

What do you all think of putting some series in KU and selling others wide? My theory is I'd benefit from page reads, build my profile wide and have a safety net in place for the day Amazon decides to pay authors 0.001 or something.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 11:58:20 PM by JsFan »

Offline Atlantisatheart

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2017, 04:34:20 AM »
The big fish won't walk away from KU because they wouldn't make that kind of money going wide. The little fish won't walk away because they need the kick start to boost visibility, but when the mid-listers start leaving, and a lot of us are already laying the foundations for this, then customers will notice the difference and KU could collapse and Amazon will just move on to their next venture.

Offline Colin

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Gender: Male
  • UK
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2017, 04:55:59 AM »
The big fish won't walk away from KU because they wouldn't make that kind of money going wide. The little fish won't walk away because they need the kick start to boost visibility, but when the mid-listers start leaving, and a lot of us are already laying the foundations for this, then customers will notice the difference and KU could collapse and Amazon will just move on to their next venture.

Or their next misadventure...

Online anniejocoby

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2133
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2017, 05:18:07 AM »
The big fish won't walk away from KU because they wouldn't make that kind of money going wide. The little fish won't walk away because they need the kick start to boost visibility, but when the mid-listers start leaving, and a lot of us are already laying the foundations for this, then customers will notice the difference and KU could collapse and Amazon will just move on to their next venture.

That's kinda what I think, too. Amazon is a behemoth - if writers left KU in droves, and so did readers, then my guess is that KU would just shrug and pull the plug on the whole thing. They probably wouldn't say "hmmmm, writers and readers are leaving the program. I guess that means that we must get rid of the scammers." Nope, I think that they would just pull the plug on the whole thing. They've been slow to reprimand the scammers thus far. They've given no indication that they care enough to change their ways. That sucks for us, of course.

That said, I have been heartened that there have been several scammers who have lost their ranks. Their books are still up, but their ranks are gone. That's a start, I guess.

Two dollars! Two dollars! I want my two dollars!!!
Annie Jocoby | ]Badge[/url] | Annie Jocoby website

Offline David 'Half-Orc' Dalglish

  • Status: Emily Dickinson
  • *******
  • Posts: 7537
  • Gender: Male
  • Missouri
  • I tell stories.
    • View Profile
    • Official Website
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2017, 05:38:17 AM »
Mike is a legitimate author and used to be a member here on kboards.

*is summoned from the ether*

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhaahahahahahahahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhaahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahhahahaahahaahhaahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

*vanishes back into the ether*
  |    |  |

Online Chrissy

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 408
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2017, 05:42:31 AM »
Customers are complaining. That's why we got what some are calling KUv3, though I think it was more of a v2.5 deal. The thing is, until all authors walk away from KU, nothing we say or do is going to change anything. And all authors won't walk away, because everywhere you go, people are pushing being in KU (more visibility, borrows count for rank), and there are some people who have no idea anything is going on until they start wondering why they aren't insta-millionaires. Then they come to the forums, especially KDP, and whine and rant.

What do you consider KUv3?

Online GeneDoucette

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1766
    • View Profile
    • Gene Doucette's Blog
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2017, 06:13:19 AM »
I'm not in KU (except for a couple of off-brand things I don't advertise) and didn't make the money in KU that I do outside of KU. Every month I read these threads when they come up to see where the state of things are, though, and every month I'm glad that for whatever reason the lack of page reads drove me out two years ago.

The threads of the past tended to transition from initial sky-is-falling to but-i'm-still-staying-it's-not-so-bad. This is the first one that looks like it's going to stick in sky-is-falling mode, and next month's inevitable 0.0041 is gonna be worse.

Thoughts:

If KU is truly going downhill from Amazon's perspective--that is, it's reached (or will be reaching) a tipping point where enough customers are dissatisfied with the product to make it no longer 'effective' for them--I don't think the solution will be to eliminate the program. A solution will certainly be to clean up the clickfarms, but they don't appear to be either capable or willing to do that. Another solution would be to improve the quality of the books in KU. (Said without intending disparagement of the books that are in KU right now that all of you are selling.) What I mean is: if they take away the exclusivity mandate in KU, it would widen the marketplace. I would certainly put my books there if I could do that and still sell them elsewhere.

As for getting out of KU and going wide, I understand the challenge that represents to a lot of people here. I would think of going wide as a long-term investment. I just sank a ton of unexpected capital from the beginning of this year into audiobooks--all of my stuff will be in audio by the end of this month--and I don't expect to make all of that money back before sometime next year. Going wide may require the same kind of long-term thinking, albeit using a lot less capital. It's possible the question to ask is not: did I make as much wide as I was in KU, but, a year from now, will I be making as much wide as I would be a year from now in KU?



Offline crebel

  • Status: Emily Dickinson
  • *******
  • Posts: 8059
  • Gender: Female
  • Ottumwa, Iowa
  • Member #1600 since January 15, 2009
    • View Profile
Re: KENPC 0.0042229 for June
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2017, 06:27:10 AM »
*is summoned from the ether*

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahhaahahahahahahahaahaahaahaahaahaahaahahahahahahahahahahahahhahhaahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahhahahaahahaahhaahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

*vanishes back into the ether*

*Waves through the mists*
A book, I think, is very like a little golden door.
That takes me into places where I've never been before.
It leads me into fairyland or countries strange and far.
And, best of all, the golden door always stands ajar. - Adelaide Love