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Author Topic: Character name: Charis  (Read 1695 times)  

Offline Evenstar

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Character name: Charis
« on: July 16, 2017, 03:55:55 PM »
Charis

Main question: Would you know straight away how to pronounce this name?

What qualities/thoughts/feelings does it bring to mind?

Is is hard sounding or quite pretty?

Offline inconsequential

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 03:58:02 PM »
Seeing this, I'd want to pronounce it CHAR like charcoal, and IS like kiss.

Yes?

Offline Jena H

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 04:00:40 PM »
I've seen that name used before, although I don't remember where (what book).  I would probably pronounce it Share-iss, or possibly Care-iss.

I likely read the name in a Regency book, so that's what it evokes in my mind.  And, assuming either of my internal pronunciations is correct, I think it's a pretty name.
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Offline RRodriguez

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 04:02:44 PM »
I would flip-flop between Chair-iss or Kar-iss. Either way, it's the type of name I'd expect to find in a fantasy novel, but would probably be pretty distracted in anything else.
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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 04:03:18 PM »
I'm with those above, I say it Char-Iss - it sounds pretty to my ear.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 04:04:54 PM »
Georgette Heyer used that name for a character in one of her Regencies (Frederica). In that book, I think it is meant to be pronounced "care-iss".


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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2017, 04:06:35 PM »
Charis.. hmm..

Chair-iss (my initial thought)
Care-iss (my second thought)
Shar-ee (putting a French spin on it)

It's an unusual name which gets my vote.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2017, 04:11:17 PM »
Charis

Main question: Would you know straight away how to pronounce this name?

What qualities/thoughts/feelings does it bring to mind?

Is is hard sounding or quite pretty?

When I read the Heyer book referenced above, I had never heard the name used before and therefore had no idea of how to pronounce it at first. Later, one of the characters in the book explained how it was to be pronounced and what it meant (grace?).
Pronounced as "care-iss", I think it is quite a pretty-sounding name.


Offline Evenstar

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2017, 04:13:17 PM »
Darn. If it is distracting then it's probably a no go. I just wanted something pretty.

And worse, no one got it right. It's actually pronounced like "Harris" with a guttural H.

I read Frederica and presumed it was Ka-riss (Like the Welsh Carys), so I looked it up. I loved the fact it meant Grace and Beauty etc

Offline JRTomlin

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 04:23:45 PM »
One of the three Graces in Greek mythology. :)

A bit hard for most people to pronounce correctly, I suspect.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 04:42:38 PM »
I knew my A level in Classical Greek would prove useful eventually. Car (as in automobile) S (like saying the letter S in English).


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Offline TheLemontree

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 04:50:09 PM »
I had a friend called Charis. She pronounced it Kar (short a) - iss

For me it will forever conjure a feminine, cheerful 20ish woman.

It's Greek for 'grace'. But, yeah, based on the other responses maybe not a go-er.  Although, the inability of most people to pronounce it hasn't prevented people using the name 'Angharadh' in lots of Celtic books, so you could be fine 🙂


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Offline TromboneAl

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2017, 04:50:15 PM »
I have a rule: no character names that end is S.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2017, 05:01:03 PM »
I had a friend called Charis. She pronounced it Kar (short a) - iss

For me it will forever conjure a feminine, cheerful 20ish woman.

It's Greek for 'grace'. But, yeah, based on the other responses maybe not a go-er.  Although, the inability of most people to pronounce it hasn't prevented people using the name 'Angharadh' in lots of Celtic books, so you could be fine 🙂
I brutalize the heck out of anything related to Welsh or Celtic but I still enjoy the stories. As long as I can roll the name around in my head, I'm fine with not knowing how to pronounce it correctly.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2017, 05:14:38 PM »
Care-is is how I read it before looking at the other posts.

Offline D A Bale

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2017, 05:19:43 PM »
The first thought that hit my brain when I saw this was Kari from The Incredibles, where she explains how her name is pronounced with a hard 'K' instead of a softer 'C' and an 'AH' instead of an 'IE'.  Thinking Car and Hiss without the 'H' here.  Love this name too.  Feels very ethereal.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2017, 05:52:38 PM »
I knew my A level in Classical Greek would prove useful eventually. Car (as in automobile) S (like saying the letter S in English).

You beat me to it. I don't know where Evenstar "looked it up" but she didn't find the correct source. This one is it.

It's a beautiful name and it shouldn't be discarded just because it will require readers to stretch themselves a bit.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2017, 06:07:39 PM »
I'd have gone with ['kerIs] (or "kay-riss," if you prefer), as well.

But no matter how the reader pronounces it in their mind, it's a lovely looking name. Why not go with it? I read books I love with names I don't know how to pronounce (fantasy) all the time, lol. Doesn't deter from my enjoyment of the book for a moment. I come up with how I want to hear it as the reader, and I roll with that.

*my two cents*

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2017, 06:15:35 PM »
I'm with Benjamin. It doesn't matter if the reader is pronouncing it correctly, so long as they aren't stumbling over it as they read.

Offline Matt.Banks

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2017, 06:23:48 PM »
If you like the name, go with it. Plenty of people mispronounced Hermione's name, didn't stop their enjoyment of the book!  :P

Edit: I can't recall the title right now but I read a book a long while back with a character named Eva. I pronounced it "E-va" but on a podcast or youtube video or something, the author was talking and kept pronouncing it as "A-va". So even with a "simple" name there can be variety.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 06:29:20 PM by Matt.Banks »

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2017, 06:29:01 PM »
If you like the name, go with it. Plenty of people mispronounced Hermione's name, didn't stop their enjoyment of the book!  :P

I can't pronounce half the names in the British mysteries I read, but it's never deterred me from reading.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2017, 08:10:02 PM »
Back in the 90's, I used to babysit a baby with that name. Her family pronounced it Care-iss, and if I remember correctly it means grace. So Charis makes me think of babies. But I also think it's a peaceful, pretty name.

Anyway, I don't think it matters if every reader pronounces it differently. I've sold hundreds of thousands of books where, when I have to say them aloud, I call the characters "whats-his-name". When I asked my readers, they all had different ideas on the pronunciation.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2017, 09:38:53 PM »
Charis

Main question: Would you know straight away how to pronounce this name?

What qualities/thoughts/feelings does it bring to mind?

Is is hard sounding or quite pretty?

I always wonder why people wonder how other people would pronounce a name in a book.  If you want it pronounced a certain way, you have plenty of ways in a book to show how you want it.

As of me, I would take it as a Greek based name and probably a female one.  I would take it as a "hard" CH, chair-iss.

And until i see the character, I try not to make assumptions based on a name.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2017, 09:49:00 PM »
I have a rule: no character names that end is S.

Me too!

It alleviates that whole issue where a significant number of folks insist that every name ending in an S only needs an apostrophe at the end to make it possessive instead of an apostrophe-S. Which is not true. And why I avoid character names ending in an S.

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Offline Spin52

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2017, 11:41:48 PM »
I went to school with a girl called Charisse, pronounced Shar-EESE. I thought this might be a variant of that.  I always assumed she was named after the actress/dancer Cyd Charisse.


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Offline VanessaC

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 04:09:03 AM »
I'd have gone with ['kerIs] (or "kay-riss," if you prefer), as well.

But no matter how the reader pronounces it in their mind, it's a lovely looking name. Why not go with it? I read books I love with names I don't know how to pronounce (fantasy) all the time, lol. Doesn't deter from my enjoyment of the book for a moment. I come up with how I want to hear it as the reader, and I roll with that.

*my two cents*

Yep, this - if I am reading, I will "make up" a pronunciation that works for me and it doesn't stop me enjoying the book.

Don't forget that the English language is chock full of words that are written completely differently to how they are pronounced - for example, I didn't find out the "proper" way to say St John until years after I'd read Jane Eyre but it didn't stop me enjoying the book.

Charis is a lovely and unusual name (another Heyer fan here) so if you like it I say go for it.  :)

Offline Evenstar

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 04:11:53 PM »

Don't forget that the English language is chock full of words that are written completely differently to how they are pronounced - for example, I didn't find out the "proper" way to say St John until years after I'd read Jane Eyre but it didn't stop me enjoying the book.


Yes! I bolded this bit above because it is one of my huge personal bug bears (I have no idea why it gets me so riled, but it does)

I read a book recently by an American author I really like and she named one of her British characters Sinjin, and spelt it that way. Ugh! I literally threw the book across the room and wanted to send her a furious email saying "We spell it St John you dimwit!" Which is totally unfair of me, because how or why should she know, but it really got me in a bate and ruined my enjoyment of the book.

(Almost definitely my issue, not hers, lol)

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 04:23:14 PM »
The reader can always look it up. :)

http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/charis

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2017, 04:27:12 PM »
Yep, this - if I am reading, I will "make up" a pronunciation that works for me and it doesn't stop me enjoying the book.

Don't forget that the English language is chock full of words that are written completely differently to how they are pronounced - for example, I didn't find out the "proper" way to say St John until years after I'd read Jane Eyre but it didn't stop me enjoying the book. . . .

For me, it was Cholmondeley. Came across it from time to time in British novels over the years and never had a clue how to pronounce it. It didn't stop me from enjoying the book, though. (Love those classic British mysteries from the Golden Age!)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 04:29:35 PM by V.P. »


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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2017, 04:29:40 PM »
Yes! I bolded this bit above because it is one of my huge personal bug bears (I have no idea why it gets me so riled, but it does)

I read a book recently by an American author I really like and she named one of her British characters Sinjin, and spelt it that way. Ugh! I literally threw the book across the room and wanted to send her a furious email saying "We spell it St John you dimwit!" Which is totally unfair of me, because how or why should she know, but it really got me in a bate and ruined my enjoyment of the book.

(Almost definitely my issue, not hers, lol)

I'm aware of a couple of books that have used this atroc-- er, spelling.  I wonder if the author(s) simply didn't know the actual name (had heard it only, never seen it), or knew and simply decided to spell it phonetically.
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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2017, 04:34:59 PM »
Long time ago I had a girlfriend called Charis.

Some people used the Ch as in chair the the aris as in Harris.

Others used the Ch and pronounced it as Sh the aris as in Harris.

She had me calling her Charise (Shareese) which is more French sounding and sexier rather than prettier to a guy. At least it was to me.

Just looked it up. Turns out Charise or Charis means grace.

Other similar are Charissa, Charessa, Clarissa, Clarice, Chanice.

I'd say Clarissa was prettier and there would be no problem with pronunciation. But then I would say that, because I have that name in a book I'm about to publish,
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 04:49:26 PM by Decon »


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Offline Evenstar

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2017, 04:47:39 PM »
For me, it was Cholmondeley. Came across it from time to time in British novels over the years and never had a clue how to pronounce it. It didn't stop me from enjoying the book, though. (Love those classic British mysteries from the Golden Age!)

Ah, I forgot about Cholmondley.  Another one I hear wrong too often not to wince is Beauchamp.

Offline Monique

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2017, 04:57:47 PM »
Isn't expecting people who have never seen or heard a name to know how to pronounce it correctly kind of snobbish and unreasonable?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 05:00:00 PM by Monique »

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2017, 05:03:04 PM »
Sidhe here. I mean why have extra unpronounced letters in there anyway? :P

St John will always be saint john in my mind. It never occurred to me until this thread that it would sound like sinjin.
I think of Gwynedd as Gwineth since I read somewhere that dd should be th. In fact there are pronunciation guides in a lot of books about the Fae, and I still screw them all up.
Beauchamp... haha I can imagine the slaughterings of that one. My own would be byoocamp or bowchamp if I was feeling snarky. I just looked it up and beechum... really?

The author can only do so much to lead a reader to the way it's supposed to sound. But the reader can always reject it in favor of something that works better in their mind to speed up the reading. And I'd really rather wing it than to stop reading the story to look up how to pronounce something correctly.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2017, 05:09:57 PM »
Ah, I forgot about Cholmondley.  Another one I hear wrong too often not to wince is Beauchamp.

Beauchamp isn't pronounced the way it's spelled? Now, that one I've been pronouncing "Bo-champ" in my head for years, ever since I first came across it in These Old Shades.
*Gets ready to scroll up and click on the name pronunciation link Lorri provided above. Prepares to be as surprised as she was when she discovered that Cholmondley is pronounced "Chumley"."


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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2017, 05:12:34 PM »
Beauchamp isn't pronounced the way it's spelled? Now, that one I've been pronouncing "Bo-champ" in my head for years, ever since I first came across it in These Old Shades.
*Gets ready to scroll up and click on the name pronunciation link Lorri provided above. Prepares to be as surprised as she was when she discovered that Cholmondley is pronounced "Chumley"."
Beechum.
I don't even see how they get Chumley out of that.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2017, 05:18:53 PM »
Beechum.
I don't even see how they get Chumley out of that.

Beechum? Wow, never would have guessed that one. Good to know the correct pronunciation, though. Live and learn. :)


Offline Jena H

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2017, 05:28:03 PM »
Beauchamp isn't pronounced the way it's spelled? Now, that one I've been pronouncing "Bo-champ" in my head for years, ever since I first came across it in These Old Shades.
*Gets ready to scroll up and click on the name pronunciation link Lorri provided above. Prepares to be as surprised as she was when she discovered that Cholmondley is pronounced "Chumley"."

Really??  Chumley??    :(    ::)    Much prettier to have it pronounced Shol-mond-ley.   Why are there words in which entire syllables aren't pronounced--or, more precisely, jumbled together?   (I'm looking at you Worcester and Leominster.  Among others.)

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2017, 05:36:54 PM »
. . . Why are there words in which entire syllables aren't pronounced--or, more precisely, jumbled together? . . .

Not sure. Maybe it goes back to the Anglo-Saxons and Old English? The Great Vowel Shift might have something to do with it as well. Just speculating here.
Any Brits on the boards know the answer?


Offline Sapphire

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2017, 05:55:34 PM »
We named our first daughter Celice (of French Canadian origin I believe). Correct pronunciation is se-LEES. You have no idea how both pronunciation and spelling have been slaughtered over the years. It's been a pet peeve of hers forever.



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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2017, 06:06:44 PM »
St John will always be saint john in my mind. It never occurred to me until this thread that it would sound like sinjin.

Yep.  My relatives in Florida certainly don't say "Sinjin's River."   ::)
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Offline Jena H

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2017, 06:18:20 PM »
We named our first daughter Celice (of French Canadian origin I believe). Correct pronunciation is se-LEES. You have no idea how both pronunciation and spelling have been slaughtered over the years. It's been a pet peeve of hers forever.

I used to work with a woman whose parents named her after Liesl, one of the children from The Sound of Music.  For whatever reason, however, they didn't use the Austrian spelling (which I think is very pretty).   
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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2017, 07:03:00 PM »
This is probably because I'm getting old and weird, but when I saw the name I thought of the Mummy from the old movies. His name was Kharis. :)

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2017, 07:14:05 PM »
I have a rule: no character names that end is S.

My editor would prefer that I didn't because of the whole possessives thing.

In my Telepathic Clans books there are a lot of Irish names. Even with a pronunciation guide in the front of the book, no one pronounces the MC's name correctly. And forget about anyone getting Aoife correct.

And let's face it, the British pronounce things weird. They have declared war on phonetic pronunciation. Yes, I know how they pronounce Beauchamp, but it was originally a French word and pronounced as it's spelled.

::ducks::

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2017, 11:25:07 PM »
Why are there words in which entire syllables aren't pronounced--or, more precisely, jumbled together?   (I'm looking at you Worcester and Leominster.  Among others.)

Wrong question. The correct question is why when spelling solidified some time post-Shakespeare did these words get spelt that way? Most names that had been changed in pronunciation settled on spellings that looked like what they sounded like. The TV adaptation of The Last Kingdom reflects that by showing the Anglo-Saxon name then changing it to the modern name (usually a shortened version of the original). So nothing to do with rules, but an odd application of standardised spelling rules when that rule was implemented.

St John, which British schoolchildren learn from (I think) Jane Eyre, probably reflects the establishment previously being French-speaking (Saint Jean).
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:27:10 PM by Mercia McMahon »


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Offline Spin52

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2017, 11:57:05 PM »
Really??  Chumley??    :(    ::)    Much prettier to have it pronounced Shol-mond-ley.   Why are there words in which entire syllables aren't pronounced--or, more precisely, jumbled together?   (I'm looking at you Worcester and Leominster.  Among others.)
When I worked at the Oxford group of newspapers, the editor of the Bicester paper was known as Mister Bicester. It rhymes, you see.


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Offline Sarah Shaw

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2017, 12:05:56 AM »
I've seen that name used before, although I don't remember where (what book).  I would probably pronounce it Share-iss, or possibly Care-iss.

I likely read the name in a Regency book, so that's what it evokes in my mind.  And, assuming either of my internal pronunciations is correct, I think it's a pretty name.

It's the younger sister's name in Frederica by Georgette Heyer.. In the book I believe they say it means 'graceful' in Greek. Has pleasant associations for me (even though the character in the book is little better than an idiot) and I pronounce it in my like 'cherish' without the 'h' at the end.

Offline VanessaC

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2017, 12:07:49 AM »
I am really enjoying this thread and finding out that I am not the only one floundering from time to time with my native (only) language. I also didn't know the Beauchamp thing, so that's today's new thing learned!  ;)

And let's face it, the British pronounce things weird. They have declared war on phonetic pronunciation. Yes, I know how they pronounce Beauchamp, but it was originally a French word and pronounced as it's spelled.

Yep! Soooo much weirdness.

I don't mind making up my own pronunciations, or coming across names I have to muddle through - part of the quirkiness of this country - but we Brits can be total snobs in real life when someone gets the pronunciation wrong which I really dislike, having been on the receiving end of more than a few scornful looks in my time! And that's before you count in regional variances in pronunciation - castle for example, around Newcastle its more like "cassel" whereas further south it would be more "caa-sel" (I can't do phonetics very well).

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2017, 01:04:59 AM »
St John, which British schoolchildren learn from (I think) Jane Eyre, probably reflects the establishment previously being French-speaking (Saint Jean).
When I went to catholic school we had the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The names are pronounced as they are spelled. Saint John is not Sinjin or SinJean. But it's super fascinating that such a common, easily pronounced (to me anyway) name is so different elsewhere.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2017, 01:19:33 AM »
Yes, I know how they pronounce Beauchamp, but it was originally a French word and pronounced as it's spelled.

::ducks::

No need to duck, you are quite correct. Nearly all these male names mentioned came to England with the Norman invasion (1066 etc), which is why they are pronounced that way.

If you try to say St John with a French accent you get San-jon, which isn't much of a leap to Sinjin. Same with Beauchamp, if you say it the French way it comes out as Bu-sham, which is far closer to Beechum than to Bo-Champ. So we've basically kept the correct spelling and correct pronunciation which has then been rounded a little by the passing of time.
(I bet my boots someone will take me to task for this statement, but it is as we were taught in English Language classes).

Isn't expecting people who have never seen or heard a name to know how to pronounce it correctly kind of snobbish and unreasonable?

Yes, it absolutely is. I hope I made it clear that this irritation on my part is definitely my issue and not that of the writer. Or reader for that matter!)


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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2017, 01:37:43 AM »
I pronounce it at Char (as in charcoal) Isss (as in bliss)
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Offline Konolly

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2017, 01:49:47 AM »
I first heard of the name St John (as opposed to the saint, St John) in Four Weddings and a Funeral - I think it's the middle name of one of the characters and the priest pronounces it 'wrong'?!

When I worked with a St John, mistakes were a mix of people who had only seen the name written down phoning and asking to speak to Saint John, and people who had only been introduced to him in person trying to email 'Sinjun'. It's easy enough to subtly/politely let people know the correct pronunciation, there's no need for snobbishness.

I did also used to work with someone called Karen, who insisted it was pronounced Car-en (as in, the vehicle + en). I don't know how she could be bothered correcting everybody on their pronunciation every single time, especially here in northern England where long vowel sounds are rare anyway, but she did!

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2017, 02:10:49 AM »
Just read an article that stated ...current chief Joseph Beachem. (US article)
How ironically appropriate! And look - the spelling has been 'properly' altered to fit the way it sounds. ;)

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2017, 02:33:16 AM »
Your character can share a name with a large printing engine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGAHTWsowdQ - there is an easter egg you can slip in somewhere for a very small segment of the population to see!
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Offline Jessie G. Talbot

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2017, 09:37:04 AM »
This is probably because I'm getting old and weird, but when I saw the name I thought of the Mummy from the old movies. His name was Kharis. :)

Very glad I'm not alone. Charis isn't pretty at all to me!
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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2017, 10:43:43 AM »
This is probably because I'm getting old and weird, but when I saw the name I thought of the Mummy from the old movies. His name was Kharis. :)

The 1940 film of The Mummy's Hand is the first of several movies that I can find where its name was "Kharis," so, yes, you're showing your age.   :-*

For the Abbot and Costello version they changed it to "Klaris" as a bit of humor. It was not, as some think, for copyright reasons, because it was still a Universal film.

For one of the best, though shorter, versions of this story, see the 1985 "Mummy Daddy" episode of the TV series, Amazing Stories. Really well done and quite funny. It has Bronson Pinchot and several well-known character actors, including Brion James from Blade Runner.

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Re: Character name: Charis
« Reply #56 on: July 18, 2017, 12:30:39 PM »
It looks like a variant of Cherise, from French "to cherish", with variants Charise, Charisse, Sharise, etc. I never would've guessed a Greek pronunciation similar to Charon.



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