Author Topic: KU 3  (Read 33648 times)  

Offline davidestesauthor

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #175 on: August 02, 2017, 01:11:57 PM »
Agree with this. I'm one of those who saw a huge increase in pages read yesterday (30% higher than my previous best ever day), most of it from the fantasy box set, with a smaller but noticeable increase in the newest fantasy. The v3 KENPC numbers were unchanged except for one book which dropped by about 10%. Today, however, pages read are entirely normal again so far (sadly  :(). I'm guessing there was some catchup or adjustment factor at work, and everything will be back to normal now.

Interesting. So many examples of this. I had a 60% increase on my previous best and then today it's looking like I will approximately equal my second best day, so about 30% less page reads than yesterday. My large increases yesterday were also in fantasy, specifically my new 4-book series.

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Offline katygirl

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #176 on: August 02, 2017, 01:49:29 PM »
My sales and page reads are down by a bit for yesterday and today. So, the increase hasn't hit everyone.

Offline ASparke

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #177 on: August 02, 2017, 01:56:46 PM »
I write fantasy and have eight books in Select. For the first time in 90 days I had no pages borrowed yesterday but a good sales day. Today there is a meagre trickle of borrows.

I don't understand how borrows can be 'adjusted' to massively increase reads for some authors. Am I seeing legitimate pages read and reported? I am demoralised by this system. I emailed Amazon yesterday but haven't received a response.

I don't stuff or do bonus books or include excerpts at the back of my books.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #178 on: August 02, 2017, 02:02:23 PM »
i think it may be wise to wait for a week or two and then look at totals over the first two weeks as a whole before deciding if page reads are going up or down or staying the same.

Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #179 on: August 02, 2017, 02:07:08 PM »
A fellow author and I did a test and I can confirm that the page flip is still an issue. We did two books each, one with page flip and one without. The results were conclusive.


If someone reads in page flip, it will only read the page the "touched" (highlighted). She tested on a Paperwhite and I tested on my iPhone with the most recently updated app.


The results showed up in the Month To Date within about an hour. It took about 4 hours to show up on the main dashboard.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #180 on: August 02, 2017, 02:15:28 PM »
Well, something's off because I just came off the back of my usual 3 day promo and my pages are way down on what they should be. I don't stuff or do anything else abnormal, so I'm wondering if that comment that someone's rep (Can't remember who, sorry) made about averaging figures is correct, only when they reset everything this time they forgot to take into account that I just ran a huge promo.

I've never really trusted Amazon as far as I could throw them and I have a pen name that is doing great wide. I think it's time I just took my cookies and went to play in someone else's sand pit. I don;t need to spend out a huge sum of money on promo just to get shafted. I've emailed them about their figures, but I'm not holding my breath.

Offline Ava Glass

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #181 on: August 02, 2017, 03:24:17 PM »
Two of the three people I tested with (BR being one of them) have gotten back to me. Nothing's changed -- I generated full-book reads for them by reading a page or two at the beginning and then skipping to the end. This was with the Kindle Cloud Reader, so there's no possibility that my device/app wasn't updated, or whatever. Paging through a book lightning-fast also generated page-reads. Sure seems to me like nothing's been fixed.
Or since there are way fewer people using the cloud reader and it's the only "device" I've seen people say there is no change on, they didn't bother with it.

The Cloud Reader doesn't even have Page Flip. I don't think it's the best thing to test on. I'd like to see results from iOS apps updated after July 28.

Results like this one:


If someone reads in page flip, it will only read the page the "touched" (highlighted). She tested on a Paperwhite and I tested on my iPhone with the most recently updated app.


The results showed up in the Month To Date within about an hour. It took about 4 hours to show up on the main dashboard.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 04:24:10 PM by Ava Glass »

Offline DanaFraser

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #182 on: August 02, 2017, 03:27:32 PM »
A fellow author and I did a test and I can confirm that the page flip is still an issue. We did two books each, one with page flip and one without. The results were conclusive.

If someone reads in page flip, it will only read the page the "touched" (highlighted). She tested on a Paperwhite and I tested on my iPhone with the most recently updated app.

The results showed up in the Month To Date within about an hour. It took about 4 hours to show up on the main dashboard.

That is so depressing. Feeling an overwhelming amount of nausea thinking about it. It is way too easy to slip into page flip without wanting to--trying to page forward or back or select text to highlight. The only thing we know will work anymore is cheating (I don't). Can't trust your ad spend or promo results if they are poor. If they are good, can't trust that the same methods will give anywhere same results the next time.

Fair to say my trust is broken at this point and, for me at least, that's not something that is reparable.

Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #183 on: August 02, 2017, 04:19:20 PM »
That is so depressing. Feeling an overwhelming amount of nausea thinking about it. It is way too easy to slip into page flip without wanting to--trying to page forward or back or select text to highlight. The only thing we know will work anymore is cheating (I don't). Can't trust your ad spend or promo results if they are poor. If they are good, can't trust that the same methods will give anywhere same results the next time.

Fair to say my trust is broken at this point and, for me at least, that's not something that is reparable.


I agree. I have one other book that I'll be testing that isn't page flip enabled. It's a dead book (meaning no one is borrowing it) and a short read, has only the TOC in the front with clickable links. So we are going to test that and see if someone clicks the link to go to the back, if it will show a full read or not. I'll report back when I know results.


Incidentally, there is NO way I could read a book in page flip mode on my iPhone. It's very small and would be so hard on the eyes. However, I usually use my iPad and that's where I see that the page flip feature could accidentally be used.


One other thing...If I left the app open in page flip mode, then let the phone go to sleep, when I brought it back to life, it would force the book to come OUT of page flip. I will try that in my iPad later tonight and see if the same thing happens after I check to make sure it has the latest app updated.




Offline asd1978

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #184 on: August 02, 2017, 04:53:35 PM »
Google play App Store :

What's New
7.14.0.18
You can now read using left-aligned (ragged right) text instead of justified (aligned on both left and right margin). This new alignment option can be selected from the Display Settings (Aa) menu within Kindle books that support Enhanced Typesetting. On the Kindle eBook Store page, look for "Enhanced Typesetting: Enabled" in the features list.
Additional information
Updated
July 27, 2017


My android kindle app updated a few days ago to version 7.15.0.73 (though it still lists the 27th of July on the play store as the last time the kindle app was updated by Amazon)
What's new : "Several experience improvements and bug fixes."

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #185 on: August 02, 2017, 07:50:23 PM »
Or since there are way fewer people using the cloud reader and it's the only "device" I've seen people say there is no change on, they didn't bother with it.

I tested someone's book on my phone (Android), and only 7 page-reads were registered, even though I skipped from the beginning to close to the end. I'm about to test another, but this seems pretty darned promising!

Maybe Amazon removed that language about "improving our ability to measure pages read for such cases as non-linear reading" from the site because it doesn't yet apply to the Cloud Reader and could therefore be seen as misleading.




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Re: KU 3
« Reply #186 on: August 02, 2017, 07:57:33 PM »
I tested someone's book on my phone (Android), and only 7 page-reads were registered, even though I skipped from the beginning to close to the end. I'm about to test another, but this seems pretty darned promising!

Maybe Amazon removed that language about "improving our ability to measure pages read for such cases as non-linear reading" from the site because it doesn't yet apply to the Cloud Reader and could therefore be seen as misleading.
The people I know who read ebooks either read on a tablet or a Kindle. The people who read on a phone are mostly young and poor (not a generalization, just speaking of personal acquaintances).

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Online Becca Mills

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #187 on: August 02, 2017, 08:18:32 PM »
The people I know who read ebooks either read on a tablet or a Kindle. The people who read on a phone are mostly young and poor (not a generalization, just speaking of personal acquaintances).

Well, clearly, I'm YOUNG! Just kidding.  ::)

I have two Kindles, but I haven't used them for reading since I switched (late) to a smart phone. Phone's always charged because I use it for so many other things. The Kindles aren't. Also, the phone is much lighter.





Offline JRTomlin

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2017, 08:57:21 PM »
Agree with this. I'm one of those who saw a huge increase in pages read yesterday (30% higher than my previous best ever day), most of it from the fantasy box set, with a smaller but noticeable increase in the newest fantasy. The v3 KENPC numbers were unchanged except for one book which dropped by about 10%. Today, however, pages read are entirely normal again so far (sadly  :(). I'm guessing there was some catchup or adjustment factor at work, and everything will be back to normal now.
Same here. I had a huge bounce yesterday, doubling what had been a pretty steady number of reads per day. It wasn't the highest ever for me but it was certainly a huge jump. Today it is back to the average (*sigh*). I have no clue why. I'll just do the deep breath thing and wait to see how things shake out.



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« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 11:26:02 AM by Becca Mills »

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Offline Jo Lane

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #189 on: August 02, 2017, 09:08:51 PM »
I just had an auto update on my kindle paper white.
Mark of Cerberus - Cerberus Book 1: 80%

The Curse - Cerberus Book 2: 80%

Raven's Favour - Cerberus Book 3: 45%
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Online Becca Mills

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #190 on: August 03, 2017, 11:33:50 AM »
We've had several requests to reopen this thread, and I myself would like a chance to report the results of the second test I ran on my Android app (read what I guessed to be about 20 pp. by skipping to the back of someone book; the author reported receiving 17 page-reads). So, I've gone through and deleted the entire argument that derailed the thread last night. Let's keep discussion on track moving forward. The topic is not whether we should have KU, get out of KU, or any of those bigger issues. The topic is the specific changes to KENCP and page-reads recently announced. Thanks, all.




Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #191 on: August 03, 2017, 12:04:01 PM »
We've had several requests to reopen this thread, and I myself would like a chance to report the results of the second test I ran on my Android app (read what I guessed to be about 20 pp. by skipping to the back of someone book; the author reported receiving 17 page-reads). So, I've gone through and deleted the entire argument that derailed the thread last night. Let's keep discussion on track moving forward. The topic is not whether we should have KU, get out of KU, or any of those bigger issues. The topic is the specific changes to KENCP and page-reads recently announced. Thanks, all.


Yes, thank for reopening because I'm also still doing some testing.


Here's one result that I wanted to share.


So yesterday, I opened up a friends book with my iPhone 5 and used page-flip to read through but stopped and came out of page flip at random pages. I counted something like 16 but she ended up seeing 55 pages read out of 288.  So this morning, I reopened the book, used NORMAL reading and went from beginning to end. So far, she's seeing 196 pages. Add that to the 55 from yesterday and so far she has 251 pages read. So at least we know that if someone goes back an reads after reading in page flip that those pages will count.


BUT...who does that? Who read a whole book in page flip and then comes back and reads it normally? No one.


Okay, so today, she took one of my dead books, opened it up, clicked the TOC to go to "about the author" which was in the back and closed the book. I still have NO page reads for that action and it's been a few hours now. If it changes, I'll come back and report. So from my experience, the "skip to the back" doesn't give page reads. She's using a Paperwhite.

Offline JRTomlin

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #192 on: August 03, 2017, 01:11:45 PM »
I'm glad to see it re-opened (without it being dragged into another topic) because the information is valuable.

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Offline Silly Writer

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #193 on: August 03, 2017, 01:18:49 PM »
I tested someone's book on my phone (Android), and only 7 page-reads were registered, even though I skipped from the beginning to close to the end. I'm about to test another, but this seems pretty darned promising!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but yes, it seems promising if it means scammers/bots cannot get paid for an entire read by flipping to the back via pageflip... but what about us real authors? If the readers are reading via pageflip, then we don't get paid either, right?   :'(

Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #194 on: August 03, 2017, 01:27:04 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but yes, it seems promising if it means scammers/bots cannot get paid for an entire read by flipping to the back via pageflip... but what about us real authors? If the readers are reading via pageflip, then we don't get paid either, right?   :'(


That is correct. If someone is reading your book in page flip, you won't be paid for any pages except the ones they go back into "normal" mode.

Offline S. C.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #195 on: August 03, 2017, 01:37:36 PM »

Yes, thank for reopening because I'm also still doing some testing.


Here's one result that I wanted to share.


So yesterday, I opened up a friends book with my iPhone 5 and used page-flip to read through but stopped and came out of page flip at random pages. I counted something like 16 but she ended up seeing 55 pages read out of 288.  So this morning, I reopened the book, used NORMAL reading and went from beginning to end. So far, she's seeing 196 pages. Add that to the 55 from yesterday and so far she has 251 pages read. So at least we know that if someone goes back an reads after reading in page flip that those pages will count.


BUT...who does that? Who read a whole book in page flip and then comes back and reads it normally? No one.


Okay, so today, she took one of my dead books, opened it up, clicked the TOC to go to "about the author" which was in the back and closed the book. I still have NO page reads for that action and it's been a few hours now. If it changes, I'll come back and report. So from my experience, the "skip to the back" doesn't give page reads. She's using a Paperwhite.

I wonder if the recorded pages would differ if you closed the book while on the last chapter (instead of "about the author'?  Basing that on an earlier comment that maybe pages with "chapter" headings get counted and other headings that don't begin with "chapter" don't - as a way to not count extraneous content.  Just curious if it makes a difference or not.


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Re: KU 3
« Reply #196 on: August 03, 2017, 01:39:37 PM »
A little progress is better than none. Yes, most of us would like to see page flip consigned to outer darkness, but at least preventing scammers from skipping to the back--whether in page flip or not--and getting credited for pages is a step forward. It's not a complete solution by any means, but it's more action than some of us expected.


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Offline Mercia McMahon

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #197 on: August 03, 2017, 01:50:32 PM »
I suspect that non-linear reading was removed from the statement because it could lead to an exodus of non-fiction authors as it would look like only being paid for the pages read, which for a non-fiction author might mean 20 pence for a book selling at 5 pounds. KDP would not want the actual pages read argument to become confused with efforts to tackle those scamming the KU system.


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Offline cadle-sparks

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #198 on: August 03, 2017, 02:25:07 PM »
I know it's not a popular stance here (or anywhere--but that might be because "feeling happy" and embracing gratitude aren't the hip things to be), but... I wasn't leaving KU anytime soon anyway, and I'm nothing but grateful for Amazon for doing this, and I'm certainly not complaining about some of the fixes we've seen working. Why?

1) They pretty much invented the ereader, released the Kindle 10 years ago, and stuck with it through many years of loss

2) They still sell the devices at a loss, from what I understand, in order to get people to buy our books. And the app for phones and PCs and Macs is flippin' free! So you and I and that guy over there can sell books! That is amazing!

3) They have little motivation to spend all this money on programing hours on this fix--it's not going to hit their bottom line in any positive way--but they did it anyway.

4) Without them, very few of us would have much of a career. Whether you consider the direct benefit, as Zon gives us from 50%-100% of our sales, or indirect, in that other vendors up their game to compete for us, Amazon is behind this income

5) I've been in the tradpub world. Those of you who haven't? You really do not know. You simply don't know how awful it is, how much control we have now, how great things are here in indie for us. For those of you who do know but  forget from time to time, maybe try to remember. We can price our books fairly and not gouge readers. We can write between genres if we wish. We can publish more than a book per year. We can keep our rights. We don't have to please anyone but our readers, and we never have to choose between what we know to be right for readers and some NYC editor's wrong-headed opinion. If we have a sucky cover, we don't need to live with that. We can change it in less than 12 hours. A book of yours is never orphaned or remaindered in six weeks. And we get paid FAST--none of this 2-year delay nonsense.  Oh, and don't forget: we retain our rights.

6) Amazon gives me as fair a shake as they give any of the Big Five--I can have more visibility than tradpub books (and do, in a majority of the cases). If they give their own imprints a little extra boost, I understand why. They could give them the only boost, but they let us play for most of the game.

7) I doubt seriously that Lou Cadle's handful of books does much for their bottom line. (I've seen my associates payout, so indeed I'm quite certain of this.) I'm tagging along on Amazon. They aren't tagging along on Lou's "fame and power." (which could fit in a thimble with plenty of room for your thumb left over.)

8) As JA Konrath said many time, nobody owes me a living. And yet here I am, earning one.

Gods are powerful. I see Zon as a benevolent one 99.99% of the time. I think they are trying to do the right thing here, and I thank them for it.

Also, I don't think they are done. I think they are still fixing. Give it a month. You might be very happy with the results. I already am.

Offline sela

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #199 on: August 03, 2017, 02:50:36 PM »
I know it's not a popular stance here (or anywhere--but that might be because "feeling happy" and embracing gratitude aren't the hip things to be), but... I wasn't leaving KU anytime soon anyway, and I'm nothing but grateful for Amazon for doing this, and I'm certainly not complaining about some of the fixes we've seen working. Why?

1) They pretty much invented the ereader, released the Kindle 10 years ago, and stuck with it through many years of loss

2) They still sell the devices at a loss, from what I understand, in order to get people to buy our books. And the app for phones and PCs and Macs is flippin' free! So you and I and that guy over there can sell books! That is amazing!

3) They have little motivation to spend all this money on programing hours on this fix--it's not going to hit their bottom line in any positive way--but they did it anyway.

4) Without them, very few of us would have much of a career. Whether you consider the direct benefit, as Zon gives us from 50%-100% of our sales, or indirect, in that other vendors up their game to compete for us, Amazon is behind this income

5) I've been in the tradpub world. Those of you who haven't? You really do not know. You simply don't know how awful it is, how much control we have now, how great things are here in indie for us. For those of you who do know but  forget from time to time, maybe try to remember. We can price our books fairly and not gouge readers. We can write between genres if we wish. We can publish more than a book per year. We can keep our rights. We don't have to please anyone but our readers, and we never have to choose between what we know to be right for readers and some NYC editor's wrong-headed opinion. If we have a sucky cover, we don't need to live with that. We can change it in less than 12 hours. A book of yours is never orphaned or remaindered in six weeks. And we get paid FAST--none of this 2-year delay nonsense.  Oh, and don't forget: we retain our rights.

6) Amazon gives me as fair a shake as they give any of the Big Five--I can have more visibility than tradpub books (and do, in a majority of the cases). If they give their own imprints a little extra boost, I understand why. They could give them the only boost, but they let us play for most of the game.

7) I doubt seriously that Lou Cadle's handful of books does much for their bottom line. (I've seen my associates payout, so indeed I'm quite certain of this.) I'm tagging along on Amazon. They aren't tagging along on Lou's "fame and power." (which could fit in a thimble with plenty of room for your thumb left over.)

8) As JA Konrath said many time, nobody owes me a living. And yet here I am, earning one.

Gods are powerful. I see Zon as a benevolent one 99.99% of the time. I think they are trying to do the right thing here, and I thank them for it.

Also, I don't think they are done. I think they are still fixing. Give it a month. You might be very happy with the results. I already am.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote up there.

Amazon is the reason that I even have a career. I love being an indie. It's the best job I've had in my life. I love the control. I love the freedom. I wouldn't want a trad deal unless it was for ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!

It's good to have things put in perspective now and then. :)

But I still get mad at Amazon when I feel like they are not acting fast enough to stop scams. I rely on them for 60 - 90% of my revenues depending on whether I'm all in with Select or wide so it matters to me what the payout is and whether it reflects accurately what my page reads are. I still get mad when innocent authors get hurt because Amazon has automated systems and they shoot first and ask questions later. Sure, we have a good thing with Amazon. But we're business people and so we have to pay attention to our distributors and retailers and how they run their businesses.