Author Topic: KU 3  (Read 36643 times)  

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #200 on: August 03, 2017, 03:59:44 PM »
KU3 can BITE MY (fundament).

My latest 100 page books are being downgraded a minimum 20% in KENP. I have a 115 page print book showing as 80 pages. Nothing has changed in my formats, but the KENP has been shifted so much lower that Amazon no longer auto-connects my paperbacks with my Kindles.

 >:(

(insert very abrasive curses here towards Amazon's KENP)

Does it matter? No, I only have one book in KU. I won't put more than one in because I can't trust Amazon.

That bears repeating: I can't trust Amazon.
 

Offline RBN

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #201 on: August 03, 2017, 04:23:38 PM »
I wonder if the recorded pages would differ if you closed the book while on the last chapter (instead of "about the author'?  Basing that on an earlier comment that maybe pages with "chapter" headings get counted and other headings that don't begin with "chapter" don't - as a way to not count extraneous content.  Just curious if it makes a difference or not.

I don't put "chapter" in my headers, ever. They're either numbered or named, and I haven't had 0 page reads yet.

Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #202 on: August 03, 2017, 04:38:35 PM »
I wonder if the recorded pages would differ if you closed the book while on the last chapter (instead of "about the author'?  Basing that on an earlier comment that maybe pages with "chapter" headings get counted and other headings that don't begin with "chapter" don't - as a way to not count extraneous content.  Just curious if it makes a difference or not.


Possibly, but this was formatted in Vellum. I did the test myself with my own book. Clicked just to the last chapter and scanned a couple pages. Page count showed 3 pages.


Incidentally, the page count finally showed up for what my friend did. It showed two pages. So the beginning page and probably the last page.


Here's the thing...I remember last year or whenever it was that the click to go to the back issue was discovered. Several people did tests and some it worked for and others it didn't. I realize that they may be putting in place a lot of the changes so nothing will probably be solid for a few weeks.




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Re: KU 3
« Reply #203 on: August 03, 2017, 04:40:46 PM »
My latest 100 page books are being downgraded a minimum 20% in KENP. I have a 115 page print book showing as 80 pages. Nothing has changed in my formats, but the KENP has been shifted so much lower that Amazon no longer auto-connects my paperbacks with my Kindles.

Does it matter? No, I only have one book in KU. I won't put more than one in because I can't trust Amazon.

That bears repeating: I can't trust Amazon.

I'm not understanding this. Did you have more than one book in KU on Aug 1? Because non-KU books don't get KENPCs. And how does a lower KENPC affect the link between the ebook and the print book? KENPC doesn't have anything to do with the print page number, and it's the print page number that they link to the ebook. So... I'm confused.

Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #204 on: August 03, 2017, 04:41:51 PM »
I know it's not a popular stance here (or anywhere--but that might be because "feeling happy" and embracing gratitude aren't the hip things to be), but... I wasn't leaving KU anytime soon anyway, and I'm nothing but grateful for Amazon for doing this, and I'm certainly not complaining about some of the fixes we've seen working. Why?

1) They pretty much invented the ereader, released the Kindle 10 years ago, and stuck with it through many years of loss

2) They still sell the devices at a loss, from what I understand, in order to get people to buy our books. And the app for phones and PCs and Macs is flippin' free! So you and I and that guy over there can sell books! That is amazing!

3) They have little motivation to spend all this money on programing hours on this fix--it's not going to hit their bottom line in any positive way--but they did it anyway.

4) Without them, very few of us would have much of a career. Whether you consider the direct benefit, as Zon gives us from 50%-100% of our sales, or indirect, in that other vendors up their game to compete for us, Amazon is behind this income

5) I've been in the tradpub world. Those of you who haven't? You really do not know. You simply don't know how awful it is, how much control we have now, how great things are here in indie for us. For those of you who do know but  forget from time to time, maybe try to remember. We can price our books fairly and not gouge readers. We can write between genres if we wish. We can publish more than a book per year. We can keep our rights. We don't have to please anyone but our readers, and we never have to choose between what we know to be right for readers and some NYC editor's wrong-headed opinion. If we have a sucky cover, we don't need to live with that. We can change it in less than 12 hours. A book of yours is never orphaned or remaindered in six weeks. And we get paid FAST--none of this 2-year delay nonsense.  Oh, and don't forget: we retain our rights.

6) Amazon gives me as fair a shake as they give any of the Big Five--I can have more visibility than tradpub books (and do, in a majority of the cases). If they give their own imprints a little extra boost, I understand why. They could give them the only boost, but they let us play for most of the game.

7) I doubt seriously that Lou Cadle's handful of books does much for their bottom line. (I've seen my associates payout, so indeed I'm quite certain of this.) I'm tagging along on Amazon. They aren't tagging along on Lou's "fame and power." (which could fit in a thimble with plenty of room for your thumb left over.)

 8) As JA Konrath said many time, nobody owes me a living. And yet here I am, earning one.

Gods are powerful. I see Zon as a benevolent one 99.99% of the time. I think they are trying to do the right thing here, and I thank them for it.

Also, I don't think they are done. I think they are still fixing. Give it a month. You might be very happy with the results. I already am.


Great perspective, thank you!


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Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #205 on: August 03, 2017, 05:02:49 PM »
My day 3 observation:

Reads are dropping like a stone down an abyss. Day 1 was slightly up. Day 2 was 35% down on day 2. Day 3 about the same drop so far, unless a rebound happens in the last hours.

Its like my books vanished from KU completely, and all I'm getting is the residual reads of those who were already reading.

Offline Atlantisatheart

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #206 on: August 03, 2017, 05:15:35 PM »
My day 3 observation:

Reads are dropping like a stone down an abyss. Day 1 was slightly up. Day 2 was 35% down on day 2. Day 3 about the same drop so far, unless a rebound happens in the last hours.

Its like my books vanished from KU completely, and all I'm getting is the residual reads of those who were already reading.

You're not alone. Plenty of authors are reporting this on groups. I emailed them yesterday asking about slow reporting they emailed back claiming everything was fine and my reads are in line with my history. That's BS - not only did I run a huge promo, but I've just released a new book. I'm getting my ducks in line to roll my books out. I've had enough.

Offline C. Gockel

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #207 on: August 03, 2017, 05:27:19 PM »
Quote
My day 3 observation:

Reads are dropping like a stone down an abyss. Day 1 was slightly up. Day 2 was 35% down on day 2. Day 3 about the same drop so far, unless a rebound happens in the last hours.

Its like my books vanished from KU completely, and all I'm getting is the residual reads of those who were already reading.

Day 1 and Day 2 were up for me, today is deep in the abyss. I'm not worried yet though. It's August. It's Thursday. The weather is really cool and comfortable in Chicago ... people are going out to eat. It could be KU or bad luck. {{shrugs}}


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Re: KU 3
« Reply #208 on: August 03, 2017, 05:53:12 PM »
Quote
Its like my books vanished from KU completely, and all I'm getting is the residual reads of those who were already reading.

This is how many of us felt back in September. Even with two releases (different pen names), it was like my books had vanished from KU. At this point, I'm not sure Amazon can ever actually fix anything without messing something else up. The scamming goes on, even gets worse, but I guess as long as I can't use KU as a keyword, it's all good.
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Offline Crystal_

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #209 on: August 03, 2017, 05:58:40 PM »
I know it's not a popular stance here (or anywhere--but that might be because "feeling happy" and embracing gratitude aren't the hip things to be), but... I wasn't leaving KU anytime soon anyway, and I'm nothing but grateful for Amazon for doing this, and I'm certainly not complaining about some of the fixes we've seen working. Why?

1) They pretty much invented the ereader, released the Kindle 10 years ago, and stuck with it through many years of loss

2) They still sell the devices at a loss, from what I understand, in order to get people to buy our books. And the app for phones and PCs and Macs is flippin' free! So you and I and that guy over there can sell books! That is amazing!

3) They have little motivation to spend all this money on programing hours on this fix--it's not going to hit their bottom line in any positive way--but they did it anyway.

4) Without them, very few of us would have much of a career. Whether you consider the direct benefit, as Zon gives us from 50%-100% of our sales, or indirect, in that other vendors up their game to compete for us, Amazon is behind this income

5) I've been in the tradpub world. Those of you who haven't? You really do not know. You simply don't know how awful it is, how much control we have now, how great things are here in indie for us. For those of you who do know but  forget from time to time, maybe try to remember. We can price our books fairly and not gouge readers. We can write between genres if we wish. We can publish more than a book per year. We can keep our rights. We don't have to please anyone but our readers, and we never have to choose between what we know to be right for readers and some NYC editor's wrong-headed opinion. If we have a sucky cover, we don't need to live with that. We can change it in less than 12 hours. A book of yours is never orphaned or remaindered in six weeks. And we get paid FAST--none of this 2-year delay nonsense.  Oh, and don't forget: we retain our rights.

6) Amazon gives me as fair a shake as they give any of the Big Five--I can have more visibility than tradpub books (and do, in a majority of the cases). If they give their own imprints a little extra boost, I understand why. They could give them the only boost, but they let us play for most of the game.

7) I doubt seriously that Lou Cadle's handful of books does much for their bottom line. (I've seen my associates payout, so indeed I'm quite certain of this.) I'm tagging along on Amazon. They aren't tagging along on Lou's "fame and power." (which could fit in a thimble with plenty of room for your thumb left over.)

8) As JA Konrath said many time, nobody owes me a living. And yet here I am, earning one.

Gods are powerful. I see Zon as a benevolent one 99.99% of the time. I think they are trying to do the right thing here, and I thank them for it.

Also, I don't think they are done. I think they are still fixing. Give it a month. You might be very happy with the results. I already am.

Amazon didn't make it so we can publish out of goodwill and I won't stay in KU out of goodwill. This is a business. Amazon is doing what makes sense for them, and we should all follow suit. I'm not going to leave KU to prove a point, but if it's what's in my financial best interests, I won't hesitate to jump. I get annoyed at Amazon, and sometimes I'm happy with them for making progress, but, at the end of the day, that doesn't matter. Results matter.

Amazon isn't malevolent, but they aren't benevolent either. Amazon is on Amazon's side. I'm on my side.

Offline sela

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #210 on: August 03, 2017, 06:30:19 PM »
One million? It would take so much more than that for me to give up the control I have that it probably means there's something wrong with me. :D

I was deliberately low-balling my quote in the vein of Dr. Evil.

*is obviously bad at humor*

 8)

Offline spellscribe

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #211 on: August 03, 2017, 06:52:26 PM »
I was deliberately low-balling my quote in the vein of Dr. Evil.

*is obviously bad at humor*

 8)

I would totally take a trad deal for three cents and a shark with a laser on its head.

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Offline brkingsolver

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #212 on: August 03, 2017, 07:10:07 PM »
I would totally take a trad deal for three cents and a shark with a laser on its head.
I want a pony. No pony, no deal.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #213 on: August 04, 2017, 12:44:29 AM »
Has anyone tried reading to the end normally and then going back to the front before exiting? When we tried this with Bheki and the Magic Light during the page reads fiasco a while back, the reads were not counted. A rep even tried it and discovered that we were correct in that none of the page reads had been counted.

Also, is anyone still getting the 1 page reads?

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #214 on: August 04, 2017, 04:53:47 AM »
I would totally take a trad deal for three cents and a shark with a laser on its head.

All we have are sea bass

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #215 on: August 04, 2017, 05:03:38 AM »
I'm not understanding this. Did you have more than one book in KU on Aug 1? Because non-KU books don't get KENPCs. And how does a lower KENPC affect the link between the ebook and the print book? KENPC doesn't have anything to do with the print page number, and it's the print page number that they link to the ebook. So... I'm confused.

Only one book in Kindle Select. All other books out and lately they've been seriously under-reporting my pages based on their "Kindle Flip."

The estimated length is calculated using the number of page turns on a Kindle, using settings to closely represent a physical book.

That's what the count says and I wager they use the same count for books inside KU. Why use two different Kindle page counters? And that means they've been shaving off page counts. None of my formatting has changed - I used a pre-formatted "stub," on all my books. Saves time and avoids difference.

Where before I used to have page counts within 5 pages of the paperback print version, I'm now 20% under - 20 pages on a 100 page book with no changes on my end.

They've changed their way of counting, and it is very much not in our favor.
 

Offline Calista Cage

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #216 on: August 04, 2017, 05:37:45 AM »
Has anyone tried reading to the end normally and then going back to the front before exiting? When we tried this with Bheki and the Magic Light during the page reads fiasco a while back, the reads were not counted. A rep even tried it and discovered that we were correct in that none of the page reads had been counted.

Also, is anyone still getting the 1 page reads?


OH, that would be really bad. I haven't tried that, and that isn't normal behavior I wouldn't think, but who knows anymore?


After waiting 24 hours, I can confirm that my friend who used the TOC click to the back only showed two pages read. We are going to try one more thing today. She going to open the book, use page flip to a certain chapter over half-way through the book, then read the rest normally.
If what we are seeing is correct, it should only register the pages that she reads in "normal" mode. I'll post back the results when I know.


The other test we did was that on the book I read of hers that I ORIGINALLY read in page flip, I went back and started over and read the whole thing from beginning to end in normal mode. The pages DID show finally on her dashboard (we are on opposite sides of the planet so there is time differences).


So that confirms that pages that can be counted normally are not being counted in page flip. And, with the new updates, it's forcing all those that didn't have page flip to have it now, even though on the sales page it doesn't show it.


As far as not having box sets in KU, I'm good with that as well. In fact, I think it's a good idea. Plus, it would probably bring more money for the author in the long run. Single books in KU, box sets are a purchase.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #217 on: August 04, 2017, 06:28:34 AM »

OH, that would be really bad. I haven't tried that, and that isn't normal behavior I wouldn't think, but who knows anymore?



Apparently this is quite normal behaviour to return to the cover of the book, or to read the front matter to see what else the author has written (if they liked the story  ::))

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Offline Desmond X. Torres

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #218 on: August 04, 2017, 06:30:54 AM »
I was deliberately low-balling my quote in the vein of Dr. Evil.

*is obviously bad at humor*

 8)
FWIW, I got it when you put up the post and spent almost half an hour looking for an animated GIF for that. No joy. :-\
BUT
Yeah, I got it.  ;D
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #219 on: August 04, 2017, 07:33:24 AM »
Has anyone tried reading to the end normally and then going back to the front before exiting? When we tried this with Bheki and the Magic Light during the page reads fiasco a while back, the reads were not counted. A rep even tried it and discovered that we were correct in that none of the page reads had been counted.

Also, is anyone still getting the 1 page reads?

Yes, still getting one page reads. And since August 1, my page reads are down to double digits a day.


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Offline Silly Writer

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #220 on: August 04, 2017, 09:43:21 AM »

So that confirms that pages that can be counted normally are not being counted in page flip. And, with the new updates, it's forcing all those that didn't have page flip to have it now, even though on the sales page it doesn't show it.

If this is true and accurate, that means the pot has boiled and the frog is dead.

i.e. the gig is up and we got punked. After forcing enticing us into the program with better rankings, we can't leave now but almost no one will get paid for anything and we'll all just be giving our work away to keep the storefront enticing for the KU members to walk through.  :o

...this is also reminding me of the song Hotel California

Offline TwistedTales

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #221 on: August 04, 2017, 09:59:01 AM »
If this is true and accurate, that means the pot has boiled and the frog is dead.

i.e. the gig is up and we got punked. After forcing enticing us into the program with better rankings, we can't leave now but almost no one will get paid for anything and we'll all just be giving our work away to keep the storefront enticing for the KU members to walk through.  :o

...this is also reminding me of the song Hotel California

I don't disagree with your assessment because it's the conclusion I came to late 2016 when I unenrolled all of my books.

But anything read using page flip has never been paid for. Amazon gave us the wonderful excuse that only a small percentage of books were read in page flip mode, so we authors shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it (it really was about as patronising as that).

What's new about KU3.0 (yeah, I read the subtle shift in calling it KENPC3.0, but I call BS) that now makes it worse?

Offline Becca Mills

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #222 on: August 04, 2017, 10:31:40 AM »
I know it's not a popular stance here (or anywhere--but that might be because "feeling happy" and embracing gratitude aren't the hip things to be), but... I wasn't leaving KU anytime soon anyway, and I'm nothing but grateful for Amazon for doing this, and I'm certainly not complaining about some of the fixes we've seen working. Why?

1) They pretty much invented the ereader, released the Kindle 10 years ago, and stuck with it through many years of loss

2) They still sell the devices at a loss, from what I understand, in order to get people to buy our books. And the app for phones and PCs and Macs is flippin' free! So you and I and that guy over there can sell books! That is amazing!

3) They have little motivation to spend all this money on programing hours on this fix--it's not going to hit their bottom line in any positive way--but they did it anyway.

4) Without them, very few of us would have much of a career. Whether you consider the direct benefit, as Zon gives us from 50%-100% of our sales, or indirect, in that other vendors up their game to compete for us, Amazon is behind this income

5) I've been in the tradpub world. Those of you who haven't? You really do not know. You simply don't know how awful it is, how much control we have now, how great things are here in indie for us. For those of you who do know but  forget from time to time, maybe try to remember. We can price our books fairly and not gouge readers. We can write between genres if we wish. We can publish more than a book per year. We can keep our rights. We don't have to please anyone but our readers, and we never have to choose between what we know to be right for readers and some NYC editor's wrong-headed opinion. If we have a sucky cover, we don't need to live with that. We can change it in less than 12 hours. A book of yours is never orphaned or remaindered in six weeks. And we get paid FAST--none of this 2-year delay nonsense.  Oh, and don't forget: we retain our rights.

6) Amazon gives me as fair a shake as they give any of the Big Five--I can have more visibility than tradpub books (and do, in a majority of the cases). If they give their own imprints a little extra boost, I understand why. They could give them the only boost, but they let us play for most of the game.

7) I doubt seriously that Lou Cadle's handful of books does much for their bottom line. (I've seen my associates payout, so indeed I'm quite certain of this.) I'm tagging along on Amazon. They aren't tagging along on Lou's "fame and power." (which could fit in a thimble with plenty of room for your thumb left over.)

8) As JA Konrath said many time, nobody owes me a living. And yet here I am, earning one.

Gods are powerful. I see Zon as a benevolent one 99.99% of the time. I think they are trying to do the right thing here, and I thank them for it.

Also, I don't think they are done. I think they are still fixing. Give it a month. You might be very happy with the results. I already am.

As someone who never would've started writing if Amazon hadn't basically invented indie publishing, I do appreciate Amazon for all of the above. And when I add my writing/publishing activities to listening to the radio on my Echo, buying almost everything other than food on Amazon, and streaming much of my media through Prime, I figure the company takes up about half of my day-to-day activities. At the same time, the indie publishing industry is maturing now, so I think many of us are beginning to expect increased professionalism all around, and that it's a reasonable expectation. I know there are some folks out there with very negative views of Amazon, but I bet most of us are, at worst, ambivalent.

Offline Jen Rasmussen

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #223 on: August 04, 2017, 10:55:42 AM »
All we have are sea bass

Are they ill-tempered?

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Offline Seneca42

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #224 on: August 04, 2017, 10:58:42 AM »
Gods are powerful. I see Zon as a benevolent one 99.99% of the time. I think they are trying to do the right thing here, and I thank them for it.

Also, I don't think they are done. I think they are still fixing. Give it a month. You might be very happy with the results. I already am.

I think people have two very different views of the same thing; and in a way both are right.

One camp has the "Lesser of two evils" mentality. If not for zon authors would be forced into the Sisyphean hell of the trad publishing gatekeepers. Ergo, anyone who frees them from that must be saints, full stop. 

Another camp (the one I tend to belong to), doesn't believe that doing good on one hand thereby allows you to do bad. I don't get to rob a store just because I was a saint in the morning and helped an old lady across the street.  :P  Ethics shouldn't work like that.

So of course, zon should be congratulated for bringing the self-publishing market into mass existence. BUT, that doesn't mean they can black box KU and not pay out page reads and not address botters and a dozen other things. Nor should they be congratulated for the commodification of books. I think some of us might have a LOT more sympathy for zon and their hot mess of a subscription program if their CEO wasn't literally the richest man on the planet. I'm sorry, but when you are literally richer than every single other human being in existence, the least you can do is not rip off authors with a sub program that is glitched to hell.

Obviously, they can fix KU, they simply choose not to for some reason. It's hard to excuse that no matter how much good zon has done. Heck, just tie rank bumps to pages read instead of borrows... BOOM, at least 50% of the botting will stop instantly. But they'll never do that.

Be careful thinking the enemy (zon) of your enemy (trad pub) is your friend. It's a very easy mistake to make.

Just my 2 cents.