Author Topic: KU 3  (Read 33610 times)  

Offline Silly Writer

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #225 on: August 04, 2017, 10:59:51 AM »
I don't disagree with your assessment because it's the conclusion I came to late 2016 when I unenrolled all of my books.

But anything read using page flip has never been paid for. Amazon gave us the wonderful excuse that only a small percentage of books were read in page flip mode, so we authors shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about it (it really was about as patronising as that).

What's new about KU3.0 (yeah, I read the subtle shift in calling it KENPC3.0, but I call BS) that now makes it worse?

What's new is 1) they're enabling PageFlip on more (all?) books in the program, and have closed our loop-holes for keeping it off of our books.,
and 2) more and more people will start reading in PageFlip as the next generation of readers come up. PageFlip is right up their alley... they have shorter attention spans due to social media: SnapChat, Instagram, Twitter. Why waste time reading the book the 'old way' when they can get a snapshot (PageFlip) of it and take in what they want and keep flipping, just like they do on social media, one 15 second GIF/Video and one 140 character msg at a time.

PageFlip will ultimately be the end of Indies making a living with KindleUnlimited... PageFlip is basically giving the one-finger salute to all of us who have stuck around and hoped and prayed that eventually Amazon would work out the kinks of KU and pay us fairly. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 11:53:13 AM by Silly Writer »

Offline GeneDoucette

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #226 on: August 04, 2017, 11:06:17 AM »
Are they ill-tempered?

Yes! And they have lasers on their heads!

Offline David VanDyke

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #227 on: August 04, 2017, 11:31:26 AM »


PageFlip will ultimately be the end of Indies making a living...

This assumes one needs KU to make a living.

I'm making a fine living and I'm mostly out of KU, so, non-sequitur.


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Offline Silly Writer

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #228 on: August 04, 2017, 11:54:26 AM »
This assumes one needs KU to make a living.

I'm making a fine living and I'm mostly out of KU, so, non-sequitur.

You're totally right. That's what I meant (I edited my post) that it will be the end of making a living with KindleUnlimited, which many rely upon. I'm looking into Pronoun now...

*off to search the dusty halls for Pronoun threads*

Offline TwistedTales

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #229 on: August 04, 2017, 12:20:58 PM »
What's new is 1) they're enabling PageFlip on more (all?) books in the program, and have closed our loop-holes for keeping it off of our books.,
and 2) more and more people will start reading in PageFlip as the next generation of readers come up. PageFlip is right up their alley... they have shorter attention spans due to social media: SnapChat, Instagram, Twitter. Why waste time reading the book the 'old way' when they can get a snapshot (PageFlip) of it and take in what they want and keep flipping, just like they do on social media, one 15 second GIF/Video and one 140 character msg at a time.

PageFlip will ultimately be the end of Indies making a living with KindleUnlimited... PageFlip is basically giving the one-finger salute to all of us who have stuck around and hoped and prayed that eventually Amazon would work out the kinks of KU and pay us fairly.

Hey, I got out of KU in 2016 after the last bloodletting. I make more money wide. In fact, I'm so convinced KU is bad deal compared to being wide that I'm extending to even more platforms now.

Is page flip widely used? I don't know. Will it be? Quite possibly. It doesn't matter. Amazon ignored our concerns last year and went on the warpath banning accounts. All this took place while many authors watched their page reads plummet, another thing Amazon never bothered to explain.

I didn't need to see anymore than I did last year to know it was time to leave KU. If Amazon don't learn to become more transparent about what they're doing they'll find themselves out in the cold. Those of us who can sell our books don't need KU and more of us will continue to exercise our option to leave. Eventually KU won't have many of the books people want to read and then it'll turn into the bargain bin for online books.

Online Ava Glass

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #230 on: August 04, 2017, 12:36:15 PM »
Only one book in Kindle Select. All other books out and lately they've been seriously under-reporting my pages based on their "Kindle Flip."

The estimated length is calculated using the number of page turns on a Kindle, using settings to closely represent a physical book.

That's what the count says and I wager they use the same count for books inside KU. Why use two different Kindle page counters? And that means they've been shaving off page counts. None of my formatting has changed - I used a pre-formatted "stub," on all my books. Saves time and avoids difference.

Where before I used to have page counts within 5 pages of the paperback print version, I'm now 20% under - 20 pages on a 100 page book with no changes on my end.

They've changed their way of counting, and it is very much not in our favor.

KENPC is different from the page count that appears on a product page. KENPC is not calculated using a title's paperback edition.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 12:37:51 PM by Ava Glass »

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #231 on: August 04, 2017, 12:42:47 PM »
Even some of us who have been long time defenders of KU are edging toward the exit. I'm still not totally clear what Amazon is doing with their new version, but I don't think it has solved the rather clear problems. I am a huge admirer of Amazon and its strategy but that doesn't mean that staying in KU is best for me. Part large part of the reason I stayed in is that the other retailers seem to HAVE no strategy... Nonetheless, I have unclicked the re-enroll button. Yeah, it will take a few months but going wide looks like my best choice. 

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Offline Shelley K

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #232 on: August 04, 2017, 01:01:26 PM »
Even some of us who have been long time defenders of KU are edging toward the exit.

Agreed. I make more with most of my books in KU than I think I could make outside it, at least for several months after going wide. So my tentative exit strategy for at least one name is an incremental one, likely starting next year. I'd like to get established wide for those in-case rainy days.

I do think that those who want to leave need a strategy. Marketing becomes a lot more important wide, so anybody headed that way should girl their loins and make a plan for it.

Offline David VanDyke

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #233 on: August 04, 2017, 01:05:48 PM »
... so anybody headed that way should girl their loins and make a plan for it.

That's one heck of a Freudian slip.   :P


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Offline SkylerG

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #234 on: August 04, 2017, 01:45:21 PM »
I really started looking at my data as it seems off. Last month (at an estimate) about 56% of my income came from page reads. That is pretty typically, it normally comes in between 55% and 60% for me.

So far this month
August 1 56%
August 2 52%
August 3 33%
August 4 34%

While there is always some day to day variance I can't find anything as extreme as the past few days in my records. If this persists (and the lower page reads isn't something universal that will raise the rate), it seriously changes the math for me.

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Offline Shelley K

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #235 on: August 04, 2017, 01:59:48 PM »
That's one heck of a Freudian slip.   :P

Wow, it really was. Ha! Leaving it, just 'cause. :)

Offline David VanDyke

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #236 on: August 04, 2017, 02:06:10 PM »
Wow, it really was. Ha! Leaving it, just 'cause. :)

Especially as the d and l are 6 keys distant from each other, so not a fatfinger fail.


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Re: KU 3
« Reply #237 on: August 04, 2017, 02:40:16 PM »
I think they'll push up the payout again for a month or two to try to show us how much we need them and the changes aren't bad and then it'll start dropping again. That's Amazon's M.O. Along with lies, manipulations, and getting us to turn on each other.

The big fish will stay to the very end and milk what they can while the mid-listers jump before the ship sinks, and it is sinking under the weight of Amazon's BS and all the scammers.




Offline Shelley K

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #238 on: August 04, 2017, 03:23:24 PM »
Especially as the d and l are 6 keys distant from each other, so not a fatfinger fail.

You don't know me or my life! You don't know how fat my fingers might be! 

Okay, they're fat, but that slip probably had more to do with the Kesha song my daughter played for me in the car today than my chubby stubbings. ;)

Offline devalong

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #239 on: August 04, 2017, 03:58:56 PM »
So as I understand it:
New books come with page flip by default (on devices that support it).
Page flip books don't count page reads?

So this will benefit those authors whose readers hate page flip AND are techie enough to figure out how to turn it off.

So...Sci Fi?

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Online Ava Glass

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #240 on: August 04, 2017, 04:08:31 PM »
So as I understand it:
New books come with page flip by default (on devices that support it).
Page flip books don't count page reads?

So this will benefit those authors whose readers hate page flip AND are techie enough to figure out how to turn it off.

So...Sci Fi?

Some in that thread are mixing up Page Curl with Page Flip. Others rightly point that out. Readers can't disable Page Flip.

Offline Mercia McMahon

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #241 on: August 04, 2017, 04:13:33 PM »
Page Flip is very useful as you swipe from page to page rather than having to tap the edge of the screen. It is especially good if you suffer manual dexterity issues. Amazon copied from Google Play and I suspect the techies ported it without talking to the KDP team. They used bigger margins than Google Play but the pixel density of current smartphones means that it is still easy to read the text.


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Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #242 on: August 04, 2017, 04:49:41 PM »
I really started looking at my data as it seems off. Last month (at an estimate) about 56% of my income came from page reads. That is pretty typically, it normally comes in between 55% and 60% for me.

So far this month
August 1 56%
August 2 52%
August 3 33%
August 4 34%

I'm looking at the same thing, except I started at 65%. I'm seeing a good solid overnight drop on Aug 2 of 35%, which is now continuing as a drop of 40% across the days. And this was on the high of Aug 1, not the average day for the last month.

So I dont know what they did, but my page reads are down significantly, and its very obvious its whatever they changed causing it, not the fact its been too long since my last book release. Its not my KENPC, because my novels didn't change.

Ironically, the only thing holding me up at the moment, is a rebound of sales. Not enough, but enough to keep me above my panic floor on most days.

I have a release coming up in a couple of weeks time, so I'm going to reserve judgement until then. But reality will reveal itself then.

Amazon keep tweaking KU, and every time they do, my KU payout in dollar terms goes down. Every single time. I can see it in my spreadsheet, and the difference between a new release this year, and when KU2 began, is very very startling.

I have readers thanking me for still being in KU, but unless they do something immediately to fix whatever they just broke, and reads return to what they were, KU will become pointless, and then a deathtrap for authors.

I really really dont want to have to do all the work to put my books out wide.

But Amazon - you're making me think I'll have to.

To all authors - we need to tell all our readers not to use page flip, especially on smartphones. The message needs to go viral. We also need to urge those who use it, to reread our books the normal way.




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Re: KU 3
« Reply #243 on: August 04, 2017, 04:55:44 PM »
Page Flip is very useful as you swipe from page to page rather than having to tap the edge of the screen. It is especially good if you suffer manual dexterity issues. Amazon copied from Google Play and I suspect the techies ported it without talking to the KDP team. They used bigger margins than Google Play but the pixel density of current smartphones means that it is still easy to read the text.
That is not what page flip is. It has to do with the book mark functionality and the window that opens when you go to a book mark. For the life of me, I can't understand how someone could read a book in that mode. But swiping instead of tapping on a page has nothing to do with page flip.

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Online Ava Glass

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #244 on: August 04, 2017, 05:10:30 PM »
That is not what page flip is. It has to do with the book mark functionality and the window that opens when you go to a book mark. For the life of me, I can't understand how someone could read a book in that mode. But swiping instead of tapping on a page has nothing to do with page flip.


Page Flip is also the thumbnails that appear to help people navigate though a book. Some end up reading the entire book via these thumbnails because the swiping is more fluid.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 05:32:59 PM by Ava Glass »

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #245 on: August 04, 2017, 05:15:00 PM »
To all authors - we need to tell all our readers not to use page flip, especially on smartphones. The message needs to go viral. We also need to urge those who use it, to reread our books the normal way.


Page Flip used as intended is fine. Readers use the thumbnails to skip to where they want to read, select the thumbnail, enlarge it to a real page, and then read, registering pages. Under KU 2.0, authors are not supposed to be paid for pages that are skipped. Amazon I guess was just late in implementing that part properly.

The real issue is readers reading entire books via the navigation thumbnails.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 06:32:13 PM by Ava Glass »

Online Ava Glass

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #246 on: August 04, 2017, 05:31:24 PM »
Another issue people complained about last year was actual glitchy behavior:

My former classmate messaged me to tell me he read my book the other day in one sitting and really enjoyed it. He's in KU and I didn't see any page reads for over 24 hours so I asked him if he could open the book read it till the last page and then close the book. He did that and within a couple hours I had a read through. Then I asked him to go back in (to the final page where he left off) and flip back to the map (at the front).

All the page reads disappeared.  :o

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #247 on: August 04, 2017, 06:11:36 PM »
I want the eyeballs of those humans that supposedly read a whole book in thumbnail. Heck, give me one of those eyeballs.

I have yet to come across any reader anywhere that actually reads a book in page flip. It doesn't just look ugly, its tiny and every time you put down the device its gone anyway. Page flip is like a access menu. Its the same place you pick your font, xray, all other menus. Readers go there to change something, not to read. You don't need to go to that menu to swipe to read. Its all swipe all the time on apps. Or kindles for that matter.
Page flip is used to go to specific sections fast. I use it at times to go back to a section where I think I might have missed something, like the age of a character, or a scene that I now need that information again later. Then you click right back to where you were.

And good luck reading a book on my Oasis or Voyage in that view with 9 thumbnails on one page. I'd like to meet those super humans.  8)


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Online Ava Glass

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #248 on: August 04, 2017, 06:26:46 PM »
I want the eyeballs of those humans that supposedly read a whole book in thumbnail. Heck, give me one of those eyeballs.

I have yet to come across any reader anywhere that actually reads a book in page flip. It doesn't just look ugly, its tiny and every time you put down the device its gone anyway. Page flip is like a access menu. Its the same place you pick your font, xray, all other menus. Readers go there to change something, not to read. You don't need to go to that menu to swipe to read. Its all swipe all the time on apps. Or kindles for that matter.
Page flip is used to go to specific sections fast. I use it at times to go back to a section where I think I might have missed something, like the age of a character, or a scene that I now need that information again later. Then you click right back to where you were.

And good luck reading a book on my Oasis or Voyage in that view with 9 thumbnails on one page. I'd like to meet those super humans.  8)



The text is quite readable on an iphone or ipad. I can't see sustained reading on an iphone, but definitely an ipad.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 06:28:47 PM by Ava Glass »

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #249 on: August 04, 2017, 06:31:29 PM »
But what would be the advantage or reading like that. Swiping isn't it because swiping is how one could always read a book before page flip. Why would someone chose the menu with the ugly frame around it, smaller font and all the menu items displayed. There is no advantage at all.

I see this coming up all the time from authors in these type of threads. But I have yet to find even one regular reader that would go out of their way to read a book in such a ugly way. For no reason. Any time you brush the edge, it goes back to normal reading mode. Anytime you go out of the book it goes back to normal. When I lay mine down and it goes to sleep it goes back to normal. So you guys are saying that readers go through all this trouble, having to constantly activate a menu item, make font smaller and have all the ugly menu items appear. Why?

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