Author Topic: KU 3  (Read 33646 times)  

Offline tresero

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2017, 10:05:29 AM »
My page counts are identical, so I'm wondering if only the people using Jutoh and Vellum and other types of files are seeing the KNPC V3 drops. I use simple word files.

I use Jutoh, and no, my page counts are almost all the same. A few up, a few down, nothing more than 5% either way.

Offline cadle-sparks

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2017, 10:08:50 AM »
when we compared word counts back when, it was clear Vellum gave a 20% or so bonus to KNPCs. I know some people here switched to using Vellum for just that reason. If Amazon found a way to count more equitably, those of us without Vellum are of course going to see this as a good thing, as we've spent 20 months without enjoying the Vellum bonus.

Offline TwistedTales

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2017, 10:09:25 AM »
KU3.0 looks like a non announcement, which leads me to wonder what they've really done. All they've stated is they have a new secret squirrel KENP calculation that they can't tell us about, but won't change much for anyone. The "non linear" page counting advice was removed. Otherwise, they used the announcement to iterate their policies about page stuffing, etc.

No IT group would call such apparently trivial changes a new version. It would be called 2.1 (or whatever number they're up to now). Giving it a whole new version number implies they've made considerable changes to the system, but they're not telling us what they are.

Whatever the changes are they feel worried enough to up that pot and assure everyone their earnings will be unchanged.

Really? They've been fiddling with the KENP calculation from the first month they released it. They never felt the need to explain changes in our KENP, much less release a whole new version of KU or reassure us.

Hmm, think I'll just stay out of KU.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2017, 10:10:28 AM »
I looked this morning when I got the email and my knep was v2 45, now it's b3 45so I didn't see a change.

It may be notable that over the last week my iPhone has pushed through two updates to the kindle app. One was last night.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2017, 10:12:15 AM »
I just looked at my Month-to-Date for August and there was a royalty amount for today's KENPs! That's never been there before.


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Offline cadle-sparks

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2017, 10:12:45 AM »
I had already noticed that my page reads had been much higher than usual for this early in the day.  Depending on if they change how they pay for them, I could grow to really like KU 3.0...

I'm at 26K at 10 a.m. Seattle Time today. Usually I get a huge blast of page reads at about 1 a.m. their time, and I know not everybody on the east coast is up reading at 4 a.m. :)

Offline Desmond X. Torres

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2017, 10:17:10 AM »
I just looked at my Month-to-Date for August and there was a royalty amount for today's KENPs! That's never been there before.
What do you mean royalty amt? I don't see that in my Month To Date, just the page reads
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Offline cadle-sparks

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2017, 10:17:28 AM »
I looked this morning when I got the email and my knep was v2 45, now it's b3 45so I didn't see a change.

It may be notable that over the last week my iPhone has pushed through two updates to the kindle app. One was last night.

I do think that's interesting. Going to check my Fire now...

Offline cadle-sparks

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2017, 10:40:17 AM »
No matter how effective this is or is not, I want to thank David and Phoenix for their endless effort on everyone's behalf in reporting the scams and pushing Zon to action. Don't forget to thank your fans if you (as I did) posted to Facebook asking them to complain to Amazon. If we all got just one or two fans to do that, maybe it helped push this forward.

Offline K.B.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2017, 10:46:55 AM »
Clearly for the past several years that has not been the case. Kindle devices have not been capable of doing that... because it hasn't done it at all under 2.0.

Maybe new devices can do that. Brand new ones that are just coming out. But obviously old ones up unti now  can't do that because the system has never fully counted page reads.

With all due respect, you're wrong. Misinformation is dangerous. This issue isn't a hardware issue, it's a software issue meaning even if older devices didn't ship with the ability, it can be retroactively added. And that's assuming it needs to be within the kindle ecosystem. Kindle is an app, and that app can capture data. It's the same thing with Snapchat. If you view a photo while offline it'll still show as read as soon as your online. It has nothing to do with the phone and everything to do with the app itself and permissions granted by using the app.

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Offline Yuri_Futanari

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2017, 11:00:35 AM »
Can anybody prove that Amazon is being honest?

All we have is their word for it.

Offline JRTomlin

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2017, 11:12:58 AM »
I use Jutoh, and no, my page counts are almost all the same. A few up, a few down, nothing more than 5% either way.
Same here although I use Vellum. It averages out about the same across my eleven novels.

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Online Seneca42

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2017, 11:22:31 AM »
Can anybody prove that Amazon is being honest?

All we have is their word for it.

Terms like honest don't apply to Amazon. They are more of a Schrdinger's cat type of company. In the quantum world a particle can be both a wave and a particle at the same time. In the Amazon world a book can be both bought and not bought at the same time; it can be both botted and not botted at the same time; it can have all legitimate reviews and all fake reviews at the same time.

It's only when you open the box that you know which it is... and Amazon ain't ever going to open that box!  :P




Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #88 on: August 01, 2017, 11:25:39 AM »
My page counts are identical, so I'm wondering if only the people using Jutoh and Vellum and other types of files are seeing the KNPC V3 drops. I use simple word files.

I also use Word files. I lost 6 pages on one book and gained 11 on one and gained 4 on another. The rest were identical.

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Online brkingsolver

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #89 on: August 01, 2017, 11:26:21 AM »
One thing I do know is that reporting today is rather strange. Numbers in different tabs on Amazon's dashboard give me different numbers and those are different from Book Report.

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Offline sevans

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2017, 11:28:13 AM »
Does anyone know of any change to Children's picture books? I think I've heard some complaints in the past how KENPC was not beneficial to picture books, so maybe the new version helps out a little. Took me four months, but I finally created all my illustrations and was thinking of dropping my kids book into KU when everything is said and done.


Offline MyraScott

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2017, 11:48:55 AM »
I just conducted a test on a book that doesn't get many page reads and had none for today.

I opened the book and clicked to the end, basically viewing 3 pages.

Page reads registers - 3

Fake page reads are now going to have to load each page instead of bypassing stuffed content to the end page, I think...

Offline Shelley K

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2017, 11:52:42 AM »
My page counts are identical, so I'm wondering if only the people using Jutoh and Vellum and other types of files are seeing the KNPC V3 drops. I use simple word files.

So do I, and my KENPC are exactly the same. I also don't have bonus material of any kind. I'm really curious to hear from people with bonus books whether their numbers have changed.

Offline Anna Lace

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2017, 11:55:36 AM »
I use vellum and went up 10% in page count.

Online alawston

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2017, 11:55:41 AM »
One thing I do know is that reporting today is rather strange. Numbers in different tabs on Amazon's dashboard give me different numbers and those are different from Book Report.

This started happening yesterday - page reads are showing up in month-to-date some time before appearing on the graph. Book Report seems to favour the graph over the rankings. I've had a quiet few hours, and the graph is gradually catching up to the page reads.

Would not be surprised if some automated page-read verification procedure had been introduced. My experience with pay-per-read sites in the early 2000s (Epinions, Helium, many others), leads me to suspect that one option on the table might be an eventual move away from "real-time" (ish) reporting, in favour of daily updates.


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Re: KU 3
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2017, 11:58:00 AM »
So do I, and my KENPC are exactly the same. I also don't have bonus material of any kind. I'm really curious to hear from people with bonus books whether their numbers have changed.

I tend to have footnotes, bibliographies, author's notes, etc, at the back of mine. It only ever comes to a few extra pages (ie, less than a dozen or so) and they're all reproduced in the paperback editions, but I did wonder whether I might see my KENPC count trimmed. But nope.


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Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2017, 12:05:43 PM »
Does anyone know of any change to Children's picture books? I think I've heard some complaints in the past how KENPC was not beneficial to picture books, so maybe the new version helps out a little. Took me four months, but I finally created all my illustrations and was thinking of dropping my kids book into KU when everything is said and done.



My children's books page reads haven't changed.

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2017, 12:05:56 PM »
I just conducted a test on a book that doesn't get many page reads and had none for today.

I opened the book and clicked to the end, basically viewing 3 pages.

Page reads registers - 3

Fake page reads are now going to have to load each page instead of bypassing stuffed content to the end page, I think...


Ooh that would be great! Fingers crossed that's what the change is really about!

I imagine they removed that line about linear reading because it pretty much was them admitting they weren't really counting pages previously, and that's not something they want to admit.

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Offline Desmond X. Torres

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2017, 12:08:38 PM »
I just conducted a test on a book that doesn't get many page reads and had none for today.

I opened the book and clicked to the end, basically viewing 3 pages.

Page reads registers - 3

Fake page reads are now going to have to load each page instead of bypassing stuffed content to the end page, I think...
Has this experiment been done before with a result of the entire book being read? If not by you, do you know of anyone who has done it? Just asking, b/c I've not seen any results.
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Offline Mike Leon

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Re: KU 3
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2017, 12:09:06 PM »
I appreciate Amazon at least acknowledging the problem, but I suspect this might make the stuffing problem WORSE, not better.

Before, scammers were using bots to check out enormous books and skip to the last page. Now that there is a limit to the viable page count, they will simply change up their strategy. Instead of checking out 10 9000-page books, they'll check out 30 3000-page books. It will probably only take them a few days to adjust their tactics.

The problem for us authors is that pages read does not factor into also-boughts or bestseller lists. Check-outs do. ...And now the scammers will be checking out a much larger number of books. So we're going to see even more scam books topping bestseller lists.

Also, in order to adapt this new strategy, scammers will need a lot more devices and/or KU accounts (assuming they don't all just perpetually cycle through the 30-day free trial somehow). At least some of them will probably pay Amazon [$10/month x the number of bot accounts] which is more money for Amazon.

So more money for Amazon, no change for scammers, a drop in sales rank for legitimate authors...