Author Topic: So...about the banned book thing  (Read 14325 times)  

Offline usedtocare

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So...about the banned book thing
« on: August 09, 2017, 07:22:04 AM »
My newsfeed is full of controversy about the latest book banned by Amazon. Erotica/Taboo subject
(Daddy/Daughter)= banned. This particular book is just one out of thousands of the same subject matter listed on Amazon, which is literally stuffed out the wazoo with the same topic books.

Why did this one get the ban hammer while thousands like it are left up? Why has this particular book caused such an uproar in the community? Curious to hear discussion and thoughts. (Let's keep it civil, though, please!)

Offline Amanda M. Lee

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 07:24:27 AM »
I haven't read the book but I heard it involved an underaged girl. Do you know if that's true?

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Offline brkingsolver

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 07:24:44 AM »
Probably because someone reported it and the person who saw the report wasn't busy with anything else. How do you explain random occurrences? You don't.

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Offline usedtocare

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 07:29:14 AM »
I haven't read the book but I heard it involved an underaged girl. Do you know if that's true?
Yes, I have a copy of it, & it's true. I'm having a tough time with it, but I'm going to finish it.

Probably because someone reported it and the person who saw the report wasn't busy with anything else. How do you explain random occurrences? You don't.

Maybe due to it hitting the top 100? I'm not sure if that caused the attention or if it was a result of the attention.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 07:31:30 AM by ebbrown »

Offline Perry Constantine

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 07:45:26 AM »
Why did this one get the ban hammer while thousands like it are left up? Why has this particular book caused such an uproar in the community? Curious to hear discussion and thoughts. (Let's keep it civil, though, please!)

Why doesn't Amazon drop the hammer on every single scammer in KDP? Why doesn't the FBI arrest every single online pirate? Why don't the police pull over every single person who speeds?

They're not omniscient and their resources aren't unlimited. Amazon mostly relies on self-policing. Maybe this book was getting attention on social media with people tagging Amazon on Twitter and Facebook and asking why they allowed this. Maybe they received a lot of reports. Could be any number of reasons.

Offline dianapersaud

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 07:46:19 AM »
When it comes to erotica (and romance too), no under aged and certainly no blood incest.
I think US Laws are the reason for that.

For a while they let pseudo incest (Steps) get published under erotica but then that was banned and there was a wave of pseudo incest in Romance. I believe it was started by a trad published author but it could have been a top selling self publishing author.


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Offline sela

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 08:18:07 AM »
When it comes to erotica (and romance too), no under aged and certainly no blood incest.
I think US Laws are the reason for that.

For a while they let pseudo incest (Steps) get published under erotica but then that was banned and there was a wave of pseudo incest in Romance. I believe it was started by a trad published author but it could have been a top selling self-publishing author.

Stepbrother Dearest by Penelope Ward was the first mainstream "step" romance between long-separated step brother and step sister to hit the charts outside of erotica. I believe she had to get the okay from Amazon before she could publish it. But that's a bit different from a 40 YO adoptive father and his less than 16 YO and then 16 YO adoptive daughter (there were apparently shenanigans to put it loosely before she was 16) who called him "daddy" since she was 4.

Amazon is automated as much as it can possibly be. Stuff is going to get through by clever publishers who know what code words to use. There's a whole sub-sub-genre of romance featuring older man / barely legal woman step-dad / step-daughter 'man of the house' and 'brat' stories with some floating around in the top 100.

I have read reviews of the book on Goodreads and as usual, the reaction is split between people who love the writer and give it 5+ stars and people who hate the book and its content, and give it 1 star. Hey -- Some readers like this stuff. All you have to do is take a quick search on porn sites to see what is the most popular genre and it's barely legal so it seems both men and women are attracted to this kind of story.

I personally find it creepy but then again maybe some people find what I like as creepy. Yanno, serial killer stories. Brain-eating zombie stories. Apocalyptic death in the billions stories. ;)

Offline Beth_Hammond

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 08:32:08 AM »
How on earth does George RR Martin get away with it then?  :P

I'm still figuring this out.
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Offline Huldra

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 08:39:15 AM »
There are literally thousands of erotica books on Amazon featuring an underaged girl in a relationship with her father?
Huh. Things have changed.

Offline dianapersaud

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2017, 08:42:24 AM »
How on earth does George RR Martin get away with it then?  :P

Because he's not writing Romance or Erotica. Different rules for Romance and Erotica.

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Offline Sati_LRR

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2017, 08:53:46 AM »
  • Underaged girl
  • Implied incest
  • Rape
  • Child abuse bordering on paedophilia
= banned

IMHO it is a pure media stunt, out to get banned and for attention. And the authors supporting the writer for "free speech" which basically amounts to the glorification of child abuse (for titillation) should be ashamed of themselves. If a man had penned this, they would be in uproar and calling for his head. I wouldn't be surprised if she has the FBI knocking on her door soon.

Offline Huldra

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 09:02:33 AM »
  • Underaged girl
  • Implied incest
  • Rape
  • Child abuse bordering on paedophilia
= banned

IMHO it is a pure media stunt, out to get banned and for attention. And the authors supporting the writer for "free speech" which basically amounts to the glorification of child abuse (for titillation) should be ashamed of themselves. If a man had penned this, they would be in uproar and calling for his head. I wouldn't be surprised if she has the FBI knocking on her door soon.

Like they hang around Stephen King's all day every day?

Offline Word Fan

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 09:03:42 AM »
When it comes to erotica... certainly no blood incest. I think U.S. Laws are the reason for that.

That makes me laugh because it ain't true.

Just one example: my father reported a book years ago, Asphyxia by Derick Hudson, Publication Date: November 23, 2013, that has not only brother/sister incest, but she dies afterward, all in the prologue.

It's still for sale on Amazon. Its categories:

#3524 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Erotica > Mystery
#3745 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Erotica > Mystery
#5439 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Erotica > Thrillers

Offline Crystal_

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 09:06:43 AM »
There are literally thousands of erotica books on Amazon featuring an underaged girl in a relationship with her father?
Huh. Things have changed.

Yes and no. Most smart erotica writers know to use enough code words to fly under the radar.

You can also write about insect, rape, and under age sex as much as you want if you strange presenting it as titillating (we could certainly argue that point with GoT but it's tradpub so it gets more leeway anyway).

I am 100% for free speech but this has nothing to do with free speech. The government isn't censusing this book. Retailers pulled it. Amazon is a private company and they can pull books for any reason. They should give us more clear content guidelines (though it's well known that insect, nonconsensual sex, and underage sex will get your book banned), but it's still their right to choose else goes in their store.

Offline dianapersaud

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2017, 09:12:23 AM »
That makes me laugh because it ain't true.

Just one example: my father reported a book years ago, Asphyxia by Derick Hudson, Publication Date: November 23, 2013, that has not only brother/sister incest, but she dies afterward, all in the prologue.

It's still for sale on Amazon. Its categories:

#3524 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Erotica > Mystery
#3745 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Erotica > Mystery
#5439 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Literature & Fiction > Erotica > Thrillers

I'm not reading that book but based on the blurb it sounds like a mystery/thriller that deals with a sexual predator. Doesn't sound like erotica at all.

It's possible that Amazon put the book into the erotica category based on keywords or their last sweep couple of years ago. I heard that cookbooks and kids books were shunted into erotica because when they did the sweep, they did it by catalog NOT by individual books.

Lots of things that violate TOS gets through.

It really depends on the CONTEXT of the work.

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Online paranormal_kitty

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 09:15:55 AM »
How on earth does George RR Martin get away with it then?  :P

I think it's because erotica is for the purpose of sexual gratification, while George RR Martin's books are for the purpose of telling a story. Martin didn't intend for the audience to find these subjects arousing. It's like the difference between naked people in porn magazines vs. artistic nudes.

Offline Huldra

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 09:26:27 AM »
I think it's because erotica is for the purpose of sexual gratification, while George RR Martin's books are for the purpose of telling a story. Martin didn't intend for the audience to find these subjects arousing. It's like the difference between naked people in porn magazines vs. artistic nudes.

I think you confuse erotica with porn.
Erotica is very much about telling a story. An often sexually arousing story, sure, but a story nonetheless. It's very *very* dismissive of an entire genre and its authors - your fellow colleagues on these boards, hello - to say the difference between erotica and GoT is "story."

Online paranormal_kitty

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 09:36:32 AM »
I think you confuse erotica with porn.
Erotica is very much about telling a story. An often sexually arousing story, sure, but a story nonetheless. It's very *very* dismissive of an entire genre and its authors - your fellow colleagues on these boards, hello - to say the difference between erotica and GoT is "story."

Seems like you can't say anything about erotica (or even romance) on here without offending someone. The subject matter as used in erotica is obviously different from the way it's used in non-erotica. I think Amazon construes the former as promoting those things, while in the latter they're just there as part of the reality within the story.

Offline Huldra

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 09:40:58 AM »
Seems like you can't say anything about erotica (or even romance) on here without offending someone. The subject matter as used in erotica is obviously different from the way it's used in non-erotica. I think Amazon construes the former as promoting those things, while in the latter they're just there as part of the reality within the story.

Mhm, it's annoying how people get up in arms when you say their writing isn't story-related.

We can agree on our assumption of what Amazon sees it as.
It just always baffled me that sex within a romantic setting is considered so much worse than murder written to excite readers.

Online Dan C. Rinnert

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 09:41:29 AM »
You can also write about insect, rape, and under age sex as much as you want if you strange presenting it as titillating (we could certainly argue that point with GoT but it's tradpub so it gets more leeway anyway).

I am 100% for free speech but this has nothing to do with free speech. The government isn't censusing this book. Retailers pulled it. Amazon is a private company and they can pull books for any reason. They should give us more clear content guidelines (though it's well known that insect, nonconsensual sex, and underage sex will get your book banned), but it's still their right to choose else goes in their store.

I agree that, as a retailer, Amazon can sell or not sell whatever they like, but the day they start refusing to sell books on insects is the day I start rallying entomologists to mail Jeff Bezos live termites in wooden crates directly to his house while he's on vacation as a form of protest.

Offline Evenstar

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 09:56:27 AM »
I agree that, as a retailer, Amazon can sell or not sell whatever they like, but the day they start refusing to sell books on insects is the day I start rallying entomologists to mail Jeff Bezos live termites in wooden crates directly to his house while he's on vacation as a form of protest.

Please tell me you don't have a "crush" fetish. I knew a girl who kept finding her boyfriend watching clips of sexy women stomp on insects. I'd never heard of it before, but apparently it's quite a thing...

Offline Huldra

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2017, 10:00:08 AM »
Please tell me you don't have a "crush" fetish. I knew a girl who kept finding her boyfriend watching clips of sexy women stomp on insects. I'd never heard of it before, but apparently it's quite a thing...


Aaaand that's enough internet for me today. O.o

Online Dan C. Rinnert

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2017, 10:02:35 AM »
Please tell me you don't have a "crush" fetish. I knew a girl who kept finding her boyfriend watching clips of sexy women stomp on insects. I'd never heard of it before, but apparently it's quite a thing...

That would be cruel, so no.  I never heard of it either.  I typically capture rather than kill insects and their cousins (spiders, centipedes, etc.) and release them outside.

Offline David R. Larson

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2017, 10:22:02 AM »
It just always baffled me that sex within a romantic setting is considered so much worse than murder written to excite readers.

Me too.

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Offline Word Fan

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2017, 10:28:01 AM »
Please tell me you don't have a "crush" fetish.

It's not a "fetish." It's a "fixation." A fetish is a physical object; a fixation is the mental state. This started being used incorrectly several years ago and has spread through the Internet, that instantaneous disseminator of incorrect information.