Author Topic: So...about the banned book thing  (Read 12681 times)  

Offline Atlantisatheart

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #275 on: August 12, 2017, 12:08:55 PM »
I thought Amazon was done with this s***. I thought that they were cleaning up the site and getting rid of stuff like this - child porn - and it is child porn. The girl is underage and is being groomed and raped by her dad. He's not her biological father, he's her dad. The man who is supposed to raise, protect, and look after her (legally and morally.)

This isn't romance - twisted or otherwise - it's not dark romance - it's kiddie porn. Sure, the author can write it all she wants, but it should never go up for sale on anything other than the dark web, and if she's selling it from Facebook then I hope they ban her. Amazon should terminate her account and the account of anyone else writing child porn.

That's my personal opinion. I don't care about freedom of speech. I don't give two monkey's about anyone's perceived rights to write it or read it. It should not be for sale. Full stop. End of.


Offline Crystal_

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #276 on: August 12, 2017, 12:09:25 PM »
To me, the problem doesn't seem to be that authors are averse to folks judging their work. The problem that raises people's hackles is that some folks question the morality of the authors (and those who defend them).

For example, I don't think anyone is bothered by the criticism "I didn't like that story. It contained elements that I don't enjoy."

But something like "That author should be ashamed of herself. The material is disgusting and putting it in a book is unconscionable. I don't understand how women can be okay with this. Just shows you what type of people they are..."

That's passive-aggressive ad hominem.

I can understand why people get upset. If someone tells me, "Your book is terrible," I'm fine.

If someone tells me, "Your book is terrible, and I think you're a terrible person," I'm going to push back.

Bottom line: when things get personal, people get upset.

If people can write what they want, other people can criticize however they want.

Freedom of speech goes in all directions. You can criticize the criticisms, but don't tell people how they should react to material they find abhorrent. (Again, speaking in general terms, not about this particular book).

Offline Anarchist

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #277 on: August 12, 2017, 01:51:28 PM »
If people can write what they want, other people can criticize however they want.

Freedom of speech goes in all directions. You can criticize the criticisms, but don't tell people how they should react to material they find abhorrent. (Again, speaking in general terms, not about this particular book).

All true.

I'm just an observer in this mess. :)

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Offline Alan Petersen

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #278 on: August 12, 2017, 02:14:51 PM »
If people can write what they want, other people can criticize however they want.

Freedom of speech goes in all directions. You can criticize the criticisms, but don't tell people how they should react to material they find abhorrent. (Again, speaking in general terms, not about this particular book).

Freedom of speech only applies to unwarranted government restriction. I can tell people exactly how they should react to material I find abhorrent. And they can tell me to go to hell.  ;D

Offline Rosie A.

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #279 on: August 12, 2017, 03:06:15 PM »
This thread brings Lolita to mind. I've long thought it was a pedophile apologist book but my writerly friends who love it strongly differ on my stance. "It's a classic," they say. "It shows the dangers of being obsessed with a girl."

Uh...no. The book does not have a happy ending nor CAN it with such a subject. Personally, I think anything sexual involving children is wrong, immoral, and absolutely sick. I've seen first hand the aftermath of such abuse in the life of someone I love. It's unacceptable. I'm glad this book was banned.


It all depends on whether it's "literature" or not. I refer you to V.C. Andrews' "Flowers in the Attic". If I wrote that and tried to publish it, Zon would probably ban me for life.
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« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 03:09:25 PM by Rosie A. »
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Offline MyraScott

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #280 on: August 12, 2017, 04:18:13 PM »
She has a right to write it.  She is certainly entitled to sell it to those who want it.  But for anyone who feels like she's been unfairly treated, here's what she posted in the midst of all the uproar:



She's a savvy marketer, not a poster child for freedom.

Offline kcmorgan

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #281 on: August 12, 2017, 04:29:19 PM »
She has a right to write it.  She is certainly entitled to sell it to those who want it.  But for anyone who feels like she's been unfairly treated, here's what she posted in the midst of all the uproar:



She's a savvy marketer, not a poster child for freedom.
I heard about this, but I was told that it was a toddler tee. See what happens when we make moral judgments about people based off a game of telephone?

I'm not debating freedom. I'm debating the wisdom of judging entire groups of people by what genre they read or individuals by their feelings on a book neither you nor they have read. (Not saying you're doing that, just explaining my stance).

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Offline MyraScott

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #282 on: August 12, 2017, 04:32:57 PM »
Yeah, well, the size of the shirt makes a huge difference.  If it's an XXL, it's not in poor taste, right?

Online ShaneJeffery

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #283 on: August 12, 2017, 04:38:51 PM »
That post seems like it's just making fun of all the haters. I haven't seen anything where she says incest relationships are okay in real life.

Offline kcmorgan

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #284 on: August 12, 2017, 04:42:24 PM »
Yeah, well, the size of the shirt makes a huge difference.  If it's an XXL, it's not in poor taste, right?
If size didn't matter, why did the person telling me about it lie? Or why did someone lie to them? The implication of the lie is this writer was okay with raping toddlers.

The reality of this entire situation is an author toed the line of what people find acceptable in fiction to sell a crapload of books. She swapped step father to adoptive father, eighteen to seventeen and instead of yet another PI book we would have all forgotten about, she's caused a social media storm that has hundreds of authors more concerned with her career and her books than their own.

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Offline lostones

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #285 on: August 12, 2017, 04:48:49 PM »
My newsfeed is full of controversy about the latest book banned by Amazon. Erotica/Taboo subject
(Daddy/Daughter)= banned. This particular book is just one out of thousands of the same subject matter listed on Amazon, which is literally stuffed out the wazoo with the same topic books.

Why did this one get the ban hammer while thousands like it are left up? Why has this particular book caused such an uproar in the community? Curious to hear discussion and thoughts. (Let's keep it civil, though, please!)

Daddy/daughter. That's sick. I hope they remove their KDP accounts as well.

edited out personal remarks. PM me if you have any questions. Evenstar (Moderator)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 05:37:55 AM by Evenstar »

Offline Gentleman Zombie

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #286 on: August 12, 2017, 05:19:21 PM »
Too be fair Amazon does a fairly good job of policing erotica. I remember when those Daddy \ daughter books were regularly in the top 100. Every now and then a taboo erotica book sneaks into the top charts. But Amazon is quick to squash them. Amazon is so strict with erotica that's its all but impossible too make any money selling it.Unless you disguise it as romance.

Yup there are some of the old "Daddy" books left up. But people are forgetting how immensely popular they were.  And like it or not
they continue to be popular. Which is why some writers take the risk and publish them. Its also why Amazon watches erotica like a hawk. If they didn't the store would be flooded with taboo erotica in a matter of days. Which was the case before many of the rules we have now were put in place.

 This is pretty much a tempest in a teapot. Mostly because the writer community has very short memories. Amazon has removed the book. The writer is free to sell it privately or with other retailers.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 05:22:42 PM by Gentleman Zombie »

Online Jena H

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #287 on: August 12, 2017, 05:48:45 PM »
I heard about this, but I was told that it was a toddler tee. See what happens when we make moral judgments about people based off a game of telephone?

I'm not debating freedom. I'm debating the wisdom of judging entire groups of people by what genre they read or individuals by their feelings on a book neither you nor they have read. (Not saying you're doing that, just explaining my stance).

If that was (or supposed to be) a toddler tee, that makes the 'joke' that much worse.  Or tasteless, or whatever word one chooses.  There isn't a single word that implies "she knows what she's doing, it's not an innocent accident," or I'd use that.

IMHO, of course.
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Offline Dhewco

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #288 on: August 12, 2017, 06:01:15 PM »
I think the way the author puts it into her feed is the only reason to hate the shirt. Her 'joke' is very wrong. It takes an innocent phrase a proud dad might use on a shirt for his daughter and turns it naughty/evil. If I had a daughter, I'd probably buy her this shirt...but I would be hoping it would be showing my skills as a provider, a guide, and a protector. I wonder what the designer of the tee would think to see her/his work put in such a position.
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Online ShaneJeffery

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #289 on: August 12, 2017, 06:08:21 PM »
I think the way the author puts it into her feed is the only reason to hate the shirt. Her 'joke' is very wrong. It takes an innocent phrase a proud dad might use on a shirt for his daughter and turns it naughty/evil. If I had a daughter, I'd probably buy her this shirt...but I would be hoping it would be showing my skills as a provider, a guide, and a protector. I wonder what the designer of the tee would think to see her/his work put in such a position.

It's only wrong in the sense that it's designed to inflame those who are calling her and her readers disgusting monsters.

Their argument has to be it's only a book, a story, some dumb fantasy that a whole bunch of people are into - if you don't like it, go away, leave us alone. And they're not being left alone, so then she fights fire with fire.

On the subject of the shirt itself - I wouldn't be surprised if said daughter refused to wear the shirt you bought for her with that slogan on it. No matter how much of a provider, guide or protector you think you are, no one likes someone blowing their own trumpet.

Offline Markus Croft

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #290 on: August 12, 2017, 06:22:18 PM »
I was just trying to be helpful.

LOL. Right. ::)

Offline Markus Croft

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #291 on: August 12, 2017, 06:25:59 PM »
Yeah, well, the size of the shirt makes a huge difference.  If it's an XXL, it's not in poor taste, right?

That looks like she's trolling a bit, and it also looks like it's working...

Offline sela

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #292 on: August 13, 2017, 08:49:29 AM »
Only everyone thinks their line should be THE line.

I agree but that's largely because of ignorance.

Luckily, we do have laws and we do have TOS that can help guide the lines our community as a whole has set. Those lines, although not perfect, are good to go by when we need to adjudicate these issues.

Not just because we personally don't feel comfortable with the material. If that's the case, we all have the freedom to not read such material.

We can even get on high hobby horses and rail against books that cross our personal lines but may be "legal" and within TOS, but that seems like a waste of time.

There are a lot of books, subcategories, trends and tropes that I find cross my personal lines of taste, intelligence and value but I just don't read them. It's simple.

It's when books cross the legal lines and the lines retailers set, that it can be justified at least in law and TOS.

Even then, I highly doubt that the whole kerfuffle did anything more than get a lot of people's blood pressure up, make many lose friends, cross authors off their lists, and sell a whole lot of the offending author's books.




Online Spinneyhead

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #293 on: August 13, 2017, 09:29:15 AM »
Even then, I highly doubt that the whole kerfuffle did anything more than get a lot of people's blood pressure up, make many lose friends, cross authors off their lists, and sell a whole lot of the offending author's books.

I wish I could sell loads of my books by causing a big enough fuss about them. Unfortunately(!!??), my erotica involves consenting adults in equal relationships, even the one written to highlight genuine government censorship.

Offline restlessthoughts

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Re: So...about the banned book thing
« Reply #294 on: August 13, 2017, 09:54:14 AM »
So I usually try to stay away from controversial topics. I hate conflict except the carefully scripted kind im my fiction. But I haven't seen mentioned yet. I read most of the post, but I might have missed it in the 12+pages.

Their has been a bit of talk about this as simply shock value marketing and I stumbled across something that relates to this.

If my google detective skills have led me to the correct book, the author is going to be one of two launch authors in a new digital short naughty erotica line from a traditional publisher that starts in September.

I don't think its an accident that we're all talking about this book right now.