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Author Topic: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU  (Read 1064 times)  

Offline Abderian

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Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« on: August 12, 2017, 06:08:39 PM »
A writer has posted on a Facebook that Amazon agreed to allow him to have a non-KU in a KU boxset, saying that he only emailed them to ask. Has anyone heard of this? The book in question is permafree and the other two books are in KU, though I checked and they are also available wide.

Offline she-la-ti-da

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 06:14:24 PM »
I'm going to call BS on that. The thing about KU is the exclusivity. So having books wide and in KU is a violation of the TOS, and subjects the author to having the book blocked, and possibly account termination. If you're thinking you can do this, think twice. Some guy on the Internet does not approval for breaking a contract make.
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Offline Abderian

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 06:18:36 PM »
I'm going to call BS on that. The thing about KU is the exclusivity. So having books wide and in KU is a violation of the TOS, and subjects the author to having the book blocked, and possibly account termination. If you're thinking you can do this, think twice. Some guy on the Internet does not approval for breaking a contract make.

He has just replied to my query saying, Anyone can get the arrangement from Amazon if they agree to it.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 06:20:50 PM by Abderian »

Online C. Gockel

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 06:48:02 PM »
Quote
I'm going to call BS on that. The thing about KU is the exclusivity. So having books wide and in KU is a violation of the TOS, and subjects the author to having the book blocked, and possibly account termination. If you're thinking you can do this, think twice. Some guy on the Internet does not approval for breaking a contract make.

The only way this might be true *I guess* would be if you had a first book that was wide, but it was only 10% of the set (basically what you'd get in the sample.) Otherwise, the guy doesn't know what he is talking about, and yes, you can have your account closed for these kind of shenanigans.


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Offline David VanDyke

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2017, 06:53:52 PM »
Wouldn't that be nice--and open to huge abuse.


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Offline Abderian

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2017, 06:54:18 PM »
The only way this might be true *I guess* would be if you had a first book that was wide, but it was only 10% of the set (basically what you'd get in the sample.) Otherwise, the guy doesn't know what he is talking about, and yes, you can have your account closed for these kind of shenanigans.


All the individual books are wide, not just the permafree. The author's adamant that he wrote to Amazon saying roughly, "Hey, I saw Harry Potter is available everywhere and in KU, so can I get that arrangement?" and they agreed.

Offline Benjamin Douglas

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2017, 07:01:10 PM »
A writer has posted on a Facebook that Amazon agreed to allow him to have a non-KU in a KU boxset, saying that he only emailed them to ask. Has anyone heard of this? The book in question is permafree and the other two books are in KU, though I checked and they are also available wide.

I saw that same post earlier today in that unnamed FB group ;) and also scratched my head. I'm pretty certain they are breaking the rules and just haven't been caught yet. If they are under the impression that they checked with Amazon and someone official said it was ok, then my assumption is that the someone official in question didn't really understand the request. It seems to me to be a pretty blatant disregard of the whole point of KU.

Offline Abderian

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2017, 07:05:42 PM »
I saw that same post earlier today in that unnamed FB group ;) and also scratched my head. I'm pretty certain they are breaking the rules and just haven't been caught yet. If they are under the impression that they checked with Amazon and someone official said it was ok, then my assumption is that the someone official in question didn't really understand the request. It seems to me to be a pretty blatant disregard of the whole point of KU.

I'm going to leave my querying as it is. I don't want to hound the guy, but I'm concerned that newer writers may not understand it's against T&C.

Online Tilly

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2017, 08:12:19 PM »
In a similar vein, I saw a post in a FB group where an author whose books are in KU, was told just to load them up to other retailers anyway, because Amazon doesn't mind and she does it all the time ::)

I've found its best to just walk away and not get involved. If other people want to risk their KDP accounts by blatantly disregarding Amazon's TOS or if they think they are a special exception then its no skin off my nose.

Offline AssanaBanana

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2017, 08:22:40 PM »
A writer has posted on a Facebook that Amazon agreed to allow him to have a non-KU in a KU boxset, saying that he only emailed them to ask. Has anyone heard of this? The book in question is permafree and the other two books are in KU, though I checked and they are also available wide.
Some low-level KDP support person at Amazon MIGHT have told him yes if he worded the question right. I once asked them if it'd be cool if I put my books up for preorder on the other retailers in advance of the KDP Select enrollment periods ending (with the intention of them no longer being enrolled in Select when they went live on the other retailers). They wouldn't *technically* be available to download anywhere else while they were in KU. The response I got said that was cool, so I did it. Several weeks later, I got another email telling me one of my books was violating the KDP Select terms because it was available for preorder elsewhere. I told them they SAID I could. They said "Sorry we misspoke" and so I wound up saying "Well then please remove my books from Select because I'm not taking down the preorder" so they did (the book, incidentally, was only a few days short of no longer being in Select anyway, so it kind of didn't make that big a difference).

The point is that the support person you hear from when you ask these questions can often be full of sh*t and it's probably a wise idea to double-check. This guy is likely to run afoul of them HARD very soon.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 08:39:43 PM by AssanaBanana »

Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2017, 08:36:24 PM »
In a similar vein, I saw a post in a FB group where an author whose books are in KU, was told just to load them up to other retailers anyway, because Amazon doesn't mind and she does it all the time

I haven't seen one of these examples, but I have to wonder if this is deliberate bad advise, designed to sabotage some other author.

Cynical, yes. My caffeine didn't kick in at all this morning.

Some idiot at Amazon MIGHT have told him yes if he worded the question right.

And this probably does happen a lot.

Remember the old Yes Minister episode, where Humphrey asks the Minister a set of questions all designed to get a yes answer, then asks him another set of questions which also get a yes answer and totally contradict the first set?

The wrong question can get the desired answer, but its still wrong.

And lets face it, half the questions which get asked by anyone, are misunderstood by the person being asked, at the best of times. And some people are really good at asking the wrong questions, and misunderstanding the answers, thinking they got a yes, when in fact they were asking a different question to what they thought they were asking.

Bottom line here, is dont follow random advise, where you dont know the exact question and exact answer. Lack of either will mean misunderstanding.

We do know the answer to the great question of life, the universe, and everything, is 42. We don't know what the actual question was. So the answer is useless. Someone saying they got a yes after asking Amazon, but without knowing exactly how and what they asked, also means you dont understand the answer, and so it is useless.

And anyone acting on someone else's useless answer, is just setting themselves up for disaster.

Offline W.R. Gingell

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2017, 10:31:28 PM »
Yeah, I very carefully asked this question of Amazon, and they said no dice. You can't have your single books wide and then put them in a boxed set in KU. Obviously I thought it would be a great 'best of both worlds' thing for my Shards of a Broken Sword Trilogy, but the rep I spoke to was very clear that I couldn't do it as it was breaking ToS.

If that helps at all...which it may not because everyone seems to have a different answer.

So I s'pose it all comes down to--well, it's your account to risk, isn't it?

Offline PhoenixS

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2017, 11:44:50 PM »
All the individual books are wide, not just the permafree. The author's adamant that he wrote to Amazon saying roughly, "Hey, I saw Harry Potter is available everywhere and in KU, so can I get that arrangement?" and they agreed.

The Harry Potter books aren't published through KDP. That "same arrangement" would also include an entirely different royalty structure unavailable through KDP. And no, random indie authors don't get to publish outside of KDP.

One thing Amazon polices with a vengeance is its exclusivity requirement. They've trained those compliance-sniffing bots very, very well.

Offline Doglover

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 12:27:40 AM »
A writer has posted on a Facebook that Amazon agreed to allow him to have a non-KU in a KU boxset, saying that he only emailed them to ask. Has anyone heard of this?
Well, if he worded it like that, he might well have got a junior email answerer agreeing. You can certainly have the individual books in select and the boxset not in select, or visa versa, but only if the non-select is available only on Amazon.

So, another BS vote from me.


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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 08:25:05 AM »
Ask David Gaughran about how loosely Amazon is enforcing exclusivity.

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Online C. Gockel

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2017, 09:48:33 AM »
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Ask David Gaughran about how loosely Amazon is enforcing exclusivity.

Yeah. A couple of my friends have had their books pirated and KDP has come after them.


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Offline Abderian

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Re: Boxset in KU, individual books not in KU
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2017, 02:48:12 PM »
Ask David Gaughran about how loosely Amazon is enforcing exclusivity.

Indeed. And Derek Murphy. When I pointed out to the writer that his KU books were available at Kobo, he said that was 'meaningless' because they didn't sell there.