Shop Foodie Calendars Now! Shop Dog Calendars Now!
KB Featured Book
Stone and Silt
by Harvey Chute

$2.99
Kindle Edition published 2013-08-14
Bestseller ranking: 713665

Product Description
Big Al's Books & Pals 2014 Readers' Choice Awards: Young Adult Nominee

A ruthless murder and a stolen shipment of gold.

At school, sixteen-year-old Nikaia Wales endures the taunts of bullies who call her a “half-breed.” At home, she worries about how her family will react if she reveals her growing feelings for the quiet boy next door.

Those are soon the least of her troubles. Nikaia discovers a hidden cache of gold, and when police find a corpse nearby, her father becomes a suspect. Worse, Elias Doyle is circling, hungry to avenge his brother’s death.

Nikaia desperately searches for clues to save her father. In her quest to find the killer, she learns about the power of family, friendship, and young love....

Author Topic: bookclicker.com  (Read 9664 times)  

Offline Chance_Carter

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2017, 02:29:05 PM »
I've heard a lot of readers getting newsletters they didn't sign up for. Are you saying that people are using your service to do that? Coz that's what it sounds like...

To be clear, I have nothing to do with how people build their mailing lists.

I'm not going to give you the list to use on the platform. You bring your list, which I assume and hope you built by gathering fans of your books.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:32:30 PM by Chance_Carter »

Offline AssanaBanana

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Angeles
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2017, 09:59:07 PM »
As someone currently using the program, I thought I could offer a few insights.

First, I should say that I only intend to use Bookclicker to do swaps with other authors, and only swaps. I share their book with my list on a date of their choosing, and they share my book with their list. Simple 1-to-1 trade, services-in-kind. I don't intend to charge for spots in my newsletters, and I also don't plan to pay, and so far I haven't had to - other authors are requesting a swap with me and offering a spot on their newsletters as payment. It's super easy.

I've been doing newsletter swaps with other authors in my genre for a little over a year and one thing I've learned since I started is that this method is currently the best (for ME) outside of a Bookbub feature. Because my only cost is sharing a book with my newsletter, the ROI is fantastic, even if a book gets very few clicks. The frustrating part of the process when I started was that it was very difficult and time consuming to track, not to mention I had no way of easily verifying that the other author actually SENT my book out to their list or what their open/click rates were for that newsletter. This tool will hopefully provide that data for me so I know for sure whether a fellow author in my genre is worth cross promoting with again.

I've used Bookclicker to set up a few mailing list bookings with other authors and it's been an incredibly smooth process. There are features that I WISH the tool had that it doesn't (yet) but Chance seems very receptive to doing improvements to ensure a positive user experience. One of those will be tracking which lists you do or do not want to do business with. I have yet to see a booking all the way through to completion with another author yet to see how it all plays out after the fact, but I'm looking forward to that part. I like to see data, and I am super curious whether these couple authors I am swapping with will prove to be worthwhile to tick the little "thumbs up" button next to their names.

My worries about the tool, like many of you, are both about the general integrity of the users, as well as the potential dilution of this method of promotion. I recognize that some of the other authors on there may be engaging in questionable practices with their lists. There is a clearly stated item in the terms of use for Bookclicker that covers stuff like "don't do illegal things." I don't know how much clearer it needs to be. However, the owner of the tool (Chance) does need to be diligent because there's a strong chance not everyone on there will be completely aware of what those laws are and whether they're breaking them, OR, like I have seen a lot lately, will be looking to exploit the gray areas (which SHOULD be something the owner keeps an eye on, in my opinion). Either way, I would LIKE it if Chance had a more solid stance on these things and actually stood up for those terms and stated that he's willing to ENFORCE them. In other words, be aware of what your users are or are not doing, even if it's a gray area, and deal with the people who are misusing the tool and violating Bookclicker terms of use. And maybe educate the ones who aren't outright rulebreakers but are traveling down a path of " p*ss ing in the pool" so that the tool remains worthwhile for all of us to use.

But so far most of the authors I've encountered since signing up for Bookclicker are not engaging in shady practices so much as they're perhaps abusing their readers a bit when it comes to overdoing the newsletter sending. The fact that the tool allows authors to easily monetize their lists means the authors who were primarily in this gig for the money to begin with are only seeing dollar signs and have forgotten how much the READERS matter here. The two authors I scheduled my first few bookings with send out newsletters DAILY. This seems excessive to me (I send my "circular" style newsletters once a week and I allow my subscribers to opt out of receiving those particular blasts). I have no idea whether the readers these authors have on their lists have opted IN to receiving a daily newsletter.

Actually, I DO know, because one of the options you have when you set up a booking on Bookclicker is to subscribe to the other author's list. So because of this, I KNOW I did not get an option to sign up for daily blasts from these particular authors. THIS IS NOT COOL. But it isn't Bookclicker's fault. And it is also just my opinion, perhaps there are readers out there who like getting emailed daily by an author about books that are not that author's books.

I like that newsletter signup feature of Bookclicker because now I know that I perhaps won't be as crazy about re-booking with these authors because I disagree with their emailing practices. My concern is that the daily blasts to their list will result in those readers viewing their newsletters as "noise" and just tune them out after a while. And before anyone says, "But Bookbub sends out daily newsletters," Bookbub IS A PROMO SERVICE. That's what people expect of them. They can get away with it. They also have bajillions of subscribers who signed up for them to receive daily newsletters. Nowhere in the signups for these two Bookclicker authors did I see a warning that I should expect daily newsletter blasts from them.

As an AUTHOR, I work to be attuned to what my readers actually want because I want to make sure they keep opening my emails. I would much prefer to swap with authors whose newsletters are actually engaging enough to their readers that they aren't likely to get tuned out or flagged as spam for emailing so often. I want to trade with authors whose readers genuinely WANT to open their emails because they trust the author to share worthwhile stuff with them, and I am skeptical that authors who send daily blasts care enough to maintain that level of reader loyalty for very long.

However, all those concerns really have nothing to do with the Bookclicker program itself, or Chance's attitude about what kind of diligence is required over his user base. If the tool works well, and enough genuinely reader-centric authors start to use it, it CAN be a fantastic community worth sticking around in. The tool can facilitate the swapping of newsletter spots between people like me and other like-minded authors. Or it can facilitate paid bookings for the other kind of authors, too. If it DOESN'T attract enough reader-centric authors and is only filled with daily spammy authors who charge/pay for spots in each other's newsletters then I will just quietly back away from it (as the readers likely will back away from those authors). The tool is only going to be as strong or successful as its user base. If the bulk of users perpetuate emailing practices that alienate readers, there won't be much worth trading down the road. They'll have blown all their "email capital" as Mark Dawson said and will have to move on. I really hope that doesn't happen because I genuinely LIKE this tool.

What I wouldn't mind seeing as an adjunct to this tool (which is just a fantasy, I realize) is more reader-centric education for authors. Less "how to make an extra buck from your gullible subscribers" and more "how to make sure your readers keep loving you enough to open your newsletters."

But unfortunately the best we are likely to get is some variation on "don't be a [jerk]."



Censored a naughty word. - Becca
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 10:15:34 AM by Becca Mills »

Offline writerlygal

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2017, 10:15:13 PM »
I have a large & active list that loves book recs. I use bookclicker web app b/c in my view it's a new & improved version of the swap website I was using before. That site got some things right but there's a whole bunch more that could be a whole lot better. I think bookclicker improves on a lot of it & will keep making improvements. I'm an author who likes to sell as many of my books as possible & the best way to do that for me has been newsletter swaps. They're free compared to FB ads that cost an arm & leg & I'd rather swap with other authors than pay FB. I only swap or buy, I don't sell but that's prob b/c my list is always full anyways. In my experience from using the other site in the past & now bookclicker most authors want the swap b/c the most valuable thing is a send out of our own book. I understand OP's point of monetizing a list sitting idle in b/t releases though. I'm sure there will be a few of ya'all who want to sell spots or only buy spots but I'm a quid pro quo kinda gal so I'm a swapper. :P
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 10:18:30 PM by writerlygal »

Offline Going Incognito

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • Gender: Female
  • It's always the quiet ones...
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2017, 11:05:53 PM »
I've tried it. So far, it's been a tool. It wasn't a miraculous Fairy dusted boost to the top, nor was it a descent into the snake pit of scammer hell, it was just a tool.

The first time I requested a buy spot on someone's list, was accepted, then I had to cancel cause my dates changed.

The second time I requested two spots on two lists (both buys.) One request was denied, the other accepted. The date came and went, the newsletter went out with me on it, which I got a copy of cause I chose to be auto signed up for lists I'd be on. My stats had a bump that day as expected. The next day I got the verification that it had been sent, including the click/open rate of the NL that day.

The next time I tried it I didn't find a fit. Some I dismissed cause looking at their author page on Amazon showed me they weren't a good match. Others I dismissed cause their prices were out of whack with what their own book rankings showed. (You want how much? Lol, no.)

I was looking to buy, not swap, cause I had nothing to offer in return. Was just looking to bump an older title a bit while it was still at 99 cents, before the price went back up, and as ny newsletter had already gotten my heads up about it when it first went on sale I didn't really wanna nag them again but just wanted a fast, quick, relatively cheap mention on someone else's list, just to see. The few I was interested in trying were not open the pretty shortly approaching date I wanted so I booked a spot on excitespice instead.

The site itself was easy. So far I've experienced both being accepted and denied, cancelling and completing, and not finding a fit and booking elsewhere.
Was a nice tool to have in my toolbox. I hope the selection for not-contemp-bad-boys grows. It was time consuming trying to find a good fit as I did go to author pages and flip thru catalogs instead of plugging a open date on a promo website unaware of who I'd be sitting beside, like I ended up doing on excitespice instead the last time, but both have their pros and cons.

Offline AssanaBanana

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Angeles
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2017, 12:26:49 AM »
Others I dismissed cause their prices were out of whack with what their own book rankings showed. (You want how much? Lol, no.)

This is the thing I'm seeing that just makes me shake my head and I didn't even go so far as to check their book ranks. Authors can set whatever price they want, and many don't seem to have a good grasp on reality where the value of their list is concerned... There's a saying about fools and their money... I highly doubt most of those lists provide a ROI good enough to justify what the authors are charging, but if other authors want to pay that much there's nothing stopping them.

For example, I've done regular swaps outside Bookclicker with one of the authors who is signed up for it now. The author's list is comparable in size to mine (around 15k subscribers) so it's a pretty even swap for us. Their Bookclicker rate for a solo spot is set to $100. That charge is the equivalent of what Bookbub charges for a list more than 10x that size (I did some napkin math and a list my size in my genre would be worth under $10 per feature based on Bookbub's numbers).

Now, maybe a very healthy list of that size COULD net me a 100% ROI, but I know for a fact this particular list doesn't, because I've swapped with this person before. $10 is more on par with what I think it's worth based on what I've earned from a swap. So Bookbub's rates feel like an excellent basis for comparison and what I would use IF I decided I wanted to pay someone for a feature.

I'm betting with the features the tool has that show the open/click rates for newsletters, it will more than likely help curb that kind of thing. The more information we have about the lists we are swapping with, the better.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:30:53 AM by AssanaBanana »

Offline snk

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2017, 05:12:38 AM »
This is the thing I'm seeing that just makes me shake my head and I didn't even go so far as to check their book ranks. Authors can set whatever price they want, and many don't seem to have a good grasp on reality where the value of their list is concerned...

On the contrary! I suspect that those authors have a better grasp on what their list is worth to them. They don't want to flood their subscribers with constant advertisements that'd make the readers wary of ever opening another mail from them. But if there's someone that really wants to use their list, then they'll have to pay up. Remember you're not in the advertising business, you're a writer and your fans are much more valuable to you than a promo list. So if you're going to risk  p*ss ing them off with an ad, it should be worth it.

Online Anarchist

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2135
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #81 on: September 08, 2017, 06:03:41 AM »
Others I dismissed cause their prices were out of whack with what their own book rankings showed. (You want how much? Lol, no.)

Hopefully, the market will eventually cause prices to align with reality.

It'd be great if there was a way to see how many successful paid mailings a particular list has completed (along with an overall feedback score). That way, list owners could see whether their lists are competitive on Bookclicker.

List owners who have completed fewer mailings than others might be prompted to make adjustments (lower prices, increase engagement, etc.) to attract more customers.

(This feature might already exist in Bookclicker. I haven't looked.)

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

Online TimothyEllis

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3685
  • Gender: Male
  • Somewhere in space.
  • Aussie in the 27th century.
    • View Profile
    • Timothy Ellis Author
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #82 on: September 08, 2017, 06:29:07 AM »
I've just seen this. A couple of observations.....

I cant read the how it works page. Centering is good for titles, not for text.

I seriously dont want to sign up, just to find out if anyone is covering my genre or not. You should be showing some detail of what goes on, which anyone can see without signing up, which will help them to decide to sign up, or not. I want to find out if the site will work for me, before I sign up. (Being free is not the point - having 100's of registrations on sites I dont use is the point, and the junk mail which comes with them).

I'm Space Opera. I want to see at a glance how many Sci-fi and SO authors you already have, because my list isn't going to start that genre off for you.

Its an interesting concept, but nothing showing so far to make it worth the hassle of signing up.

Online Sati_LRR

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #83 on: September 08, 2017, 11:13:15 AM »
A word of warning, the OP has already engaged in activities that violate CAN-SPAM and even admits as much, scraping emails from people who at one point or another joined the Bookclicker Ryver chat, and also asks not to be reported.

At the end of July I received the following email from Chance.

Quote
Please forgive the style and font of this email. I'm using my author template so you're not seeing official bookclicker branding here! Also, you're receiving this email because I was able to get your address from the Ryver group. Please don't report me as spam!

This email is being sent to the entire Ryver group so if you're already on the early access list for the software, don't worry, you're still on the list and I'll be sending out emails to process the payments and get you onboarded next week.

I did not give my permission for my email address to be used in this way and yet that didn't stop the OP from sending that email and further newsletters, days later, from another email address.

In August I received SEVERAL emails from bookclicker bombarding me about this service, with email content written in such a way that assumed I was onboard. Again I did not state my interest in this service or sign up to this newsletter, EVER. I have since unsubscribed so don't know if people are still receiving unsolicited emails.

Quote
Thanks so much for your patience the past couple of weeks. I'm going to start onboarding early access people onto the software in the next few days, so if you're on the early access list, expect to see a paypal invoice from me. If you happen to receive two invoices just let me know and I'll cancel the duplicate. For some people I have a pen name email and a business email and might accidentally invoice both. If you're not on the early access list, just reply to ask about it.

Once your invoice is paid I'll be in touch to get you started. I'm very excited to get people onto the platform, which has been designed from the ground up to help us launch books as consistently and effectively as possible. I have no doubt it will make all of our books launch higher, more reliably, and at less expense.

So word to the wise: the OP has no qualms about using email addresses he is not entitled to for his own personal gain. And while this is not technically about the service itself I do believe people contemplating using it need to know about his previous unauthorized use of email addresses and untrustworthiness. 


Edited to remove email addresses.
Evenstar, Moderator
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 01:39:24 AM by Evenstar »

Offline deniseleitao

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2017, 11:35:59 AM »
The service that's similar is bookboast.com

I like bookclicker's possibility of buying slots, because, as a new author, I don't have a mailing list.

Issues about Chance's spamming are concerning, but I think bookclicker's NL swap service is superior to bookboast's. I hope it works.

Offline AssanaBanana

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Angeles
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2017, 01:46:16 PM »
On the contrary! I suspect that those authors have a better grasp on what their list is worth to them. They don't want to flood their subscribers with constant advertisements that'd make the readers wary of ever opening another mail from them. But if there's someone that really wants to use their list, then they'll have to pay up. Remember you're not in the advertising business, you're a writer and your fans are much more valuable to you than a promo list. So if you're going to risk  p*ss ing them off with an ad, it should be worth it.

Not exactly. The original pricing schemes for Bookclicker members' swap fees was based loosely on what authors were paying Facebook per ad click. They thought, "Hey, if FB can charge ME $0.20 per click, surely clicks on my newsletter are worth that much!" And then they arbitrarily decided their newsletter clicks were actually worth that much. Without having any real data (i.e. sales numbers) to back that up. There were some conflicts that occurred as a result. Authors agreed to pay for clicks, got what they paid for, then balked when they realized that those clicks didn't actually translate into an appreciable number of sales.

Any author who has paid for newsletter promo services like Bookbub and the smaller counterparts pays attention (or they should) to how much they EARN from their promos. This is why I stopped paying for those newsletter promos (except for Bookbub). At the very least, I expect a 100% ROI or I simply won't use them again. It's bad business if I'm not making my money back on an advertising investment. I'll try it ONCE but if it doesn't pay off, I won't try it again, and most of these lists can't guarantee a return the way Bookbub can. Even Bookbub's promos aren't guaranteed, but they have enough data to back up what they charge and most of the features I've booked with them HAVE paid off in spades.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 01:48:30 PM by AssanaBanana »

Offline Maalik

  • Status: Madeleine L'Engle
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #86 on: September 09, 2017, 12:24:24 AM »
For example, I've done regular swaps outside Bookclicker with one of the authors who is signed up for it now. The author's list is comparable in size to mine (around 15k subscribers) so it's a pretty even swap for us. Their Bookclicker rate for a solo spot is set to $100. That charge is the equivalent of what Bookbub charges for a list more than 10x that size (I did some napkin math and a list my size in my genre would be worth under $10 per feature based on Bookbub's numbers).

Huh? Those prices might be inflated but comparing prices to how much Bookbud charges is a really bad idea.  Everyone is expensive compared to Bookbub. Bookbub is able to provide such a great deal because they're highly selective in who they choose to feature. They're providing a service to their readers. With them you're not just a customer, you're also a content provider.


Online PhoenixS

  • Status: A A Milne
  • ******
  • Posts: 4076
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #87 on: September 09, 2017, 07:36:53 AM »
Huh? Those prices might be inflated but comparing prices to how much Bookbud charges is a really bad idea.  Everyone is expensive compared to Bookbub. Bookbub is able to provide such a great deal because they're highly selective in who they choose to feature. They're providing a service to their readers. With them you're not just a customer, you're also a content provider.

Huh? In the real world of economics, what you've outlined about BookBub above leads to higher prices, not lower.

What you're also implying in your statement is that with these author NLs there's no vetting and what service there is has nothing to do with readers. That it's simply nothing more than a fairly passive revenue stream for authors who fly in the face of economics to charge high-brow restaurant prices for fast-food takeout. (There's a word for that which I won't use because it'll get this post modded.) Which I basically agree with that assessment, so thank you for validating.

Offline Maalik

  • Status: Madeleine L'Engle
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #88 on: September 09, 2017, 05:39:35 PM »
Huh? In the real world of economics, what you've outlined about BookBub above leads to higher prices, not lower.

If both parties are mutually benefiting why would it lead to higher prices? The benefit wouldn't be mutual anymore!

Right now if Bookbub accepts your book you open your wallet and pay them even if it's your last dime. However, if Bookbub raised their prices significantly to the point where you're not guaranteed a good ROI (like with ANY other service) then less authors would bother submitting deals. Bookbub would no-longer have hundreds of great bargains to choose from and would either have very few deals to offer their readers, or they would just start accepting anyone willing to pay the exorbitant fees. That would severely reduce the quality of their newsletter.

What you're also implying in your statement is that with these author NLs there's no vetting and what service there is has nothing to do with readers. That it's simply nothing more than a fairly passive revenue stream for authors who fly in the face of economics to charge high-brow restaurant prices for fast-food takeout. (There's a word for that which I won't use because it'll get this post modded.) Which I basically agree with that assessment, so thank you for validating.

I wasn't defending these authors selling spots in their newsletters, they're obviously over-priced and it's not a service I have any interest in. But you should be comparing the prices to other popular newsletter services and make a more realistic comparison.

Online TimothyEllis

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3685
  • Gender: Male
  • Somewhere in space.
  • Aussie in the 27th century.
    • View Profile
    • Timothy Ellis Author
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2017, 07:13:15 PM »
That would severely reduce the quality of their newsletter.

The trouble is, its not.

I stopped getting the newsletter because after months, I never received anything to click on. It was all stuff I had no interest in, and old stuff I'd already read.

I want to know about new stuff in my genre, and BB doesn't deliver.

Offline AssanaBanana

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Angeles
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #90 on: September 09, 2017, 09:15:24 PM »
If both parties are mutually benefiting why would it lead to higher prices? The benefit wouldn't be mutual anymore!

Right now if Bookbub accepts your book you open your wallet and pay them even if it's your last dime. However, if Bookbub raised their prices significantly to the point where you're not guaranteed a good ROI (like with ANY other service) then less authors would bother submitting deals. Bookbub would no-longer have hundreds of great bargains to choose from and would either have very few deals to offer their readers, or they would just start accepting anyone willing to pay the exorbitant fees. That would severely reduce the quality of their newsletter.

I wasn't defending these authors selling spots in their newsletters, they're obviously over-priced and it's not a service I have any interest in. But you should be comparing the prices to other popular newsletter services and make a more realistic comparison.

Okay, for the sake of argument I did the comparison to MyRomanceReads which was my next favorite go-to for list-based promotion. They have a single list of about 65k and charge $90 for a spot for a $0.99 book (oddly they charge MORE for free books while Bookbub charges less). Based on their numbers (which aren't at all broken down by genre), a list my size (15k) would be worth ~$21 per send ($90/65k subscribers = ~$0.0014/email x 15k = ~$21). Still nothing close to what some of the Bookclicker authors are charging for much smaller lists.

But my point is that what many BC users don't seem to grasp is that ROI matters a LOT and the entire reason I prefer to swap over paying for these other promo services is because the ROI from anyone but Bookbub lately simply stinks.

Luckily a lot of BC authors are only doing swaps. As for the folks charging, I think seeing the prices for lists of equivalent sizes and being able to easily compare will eventually force those prices down unless the users can demonstrate that their lists provide an ROI worth the price they charge. Having all of them in one place will only make it easier for everyone to compare (for those authors who are willing to pay). For the rest it's really just a swap meet where we all bring our lists and see what we can get in exchange for what we have.

Regardless of who is doing what with their lists, the fact that I can SEE their list sizes, open/click rates, prices, links to their catalogs, and hopefully in the future some kind of profile that includes more information beyond simply genre, will make my job a whole lot easier when I'm trying to decide who is worthwhile to swap with. I love that all that information will be in one spot.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 09:19:42 PM by AssanaBanana »

Offline MonkeyScribe

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3980
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #91 on: November 13, 2017, 05:11:13 AM »
Regardless of who is doing what with their lists, the fact that I can SEE their list sizes, open/click rates, prices, links to their catalogs, and hopefully in the future some kind of profile that includes more information beyond simply genre, will make my job a whole lot easier when I'm trying to decide who is worthwhile to swap with. I love that all that information will be in one spot.

When you go to BookClicker's signup form, and log in with your MailChimp account so as to verify the size of your list, you also give BookClicker full access to your list, including the ability to download all the names in your list, send them emails, or whatever. This is obviously a terrible, terrible idea, regardless of the motives of the people behind the site and feature.

Offline Monique

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 11163
  • Gender: Female
  • California
    • View Profile
    • Written by Monique
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #92 on: November 13, 2017, 10:08:20 AM »
When you go to BookClicker's signup form, and log in with your MailChimp account so as to verify the size of your list, you also give BookClicker full access to your list, including the ability to download all the names in your list, send them emails, or whatever. This is obviously a terrible, terrible idea, regardless of the motives of the people behind the site and feature.

Wow. Hell no.

Monique Martin | author website | facebook | twitter

Offline KMatthew

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
  • San Antonio, TX
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #93 on: November 13, 2017, 11:15:32 AM »
A word of warning, the OP has already engaged in activities that violate CAN-SPAM and even admits as much, scraping emails from people who at one point or another joined the Bookclicker Ryver chat.
99 times out of 100, you input your email address into a field on anything online, it goes onto a list. When I joined, Chancer's Ryver group was by invitation only. Most of the top KUers in Romance are in that group and there's a lot to be learned there. If you're going to complain instead of just hitting unsubscribe like any normal person would do, then you don't deserve to be in there in the first place.

I'm now going to explain the economics of supply and demand. This is the same concept that has kept all the underperforming advertising companies afloat. It's the same concept that has kept KU afloat despite diminishing payouts to authors on page reads. People are still using these things. People are still accepting these prices.

I am one of the people who has a super expensive list on BookClicker. Originally, my prices were lower than most, but I was getting booked up. So I raised the price because I didn't want to clog up my newsletter with promos by other authors. Then I raised the price again. Then I raised it again. Now I have one of the more expensive lists on BookClicker, and you know what, I'm still booked solid.

For a lot of authors, especially authors in the top 100 on Amazon, using services like BookClicker and the other advertising sites isn't about getting a positive ROI on that particular ad. It's about getting enough people to buy or borrow their book to get it in the top 100 on Amazon or #1 spot in their category or accomplish some ranking goal that will kickstart organic reads and downloads. That is why people spend stupid amounts of money on this stuff--amounts that don't seem to make sense when you're looked at immediate ROI on an ad purchase.

Not everyone has the same business plan. I totally understand the people who are watching their finances and/or only care about positive ROI regardless of rank. As was already mentioned, not everyone can get a BookBub. For those who can, that is definitely a cheaper route. For those who can't, these are the routes they go to achieve the same results.

I'd also like to add that most of the people with really expensive lists on BookClicker are willing to swap.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 11:25:00 AM by KMatthew »

Offline Phxsundog

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #94 on: November 13, 2017, 11:23:09 AM »
You mean a privilege to join a scammer Ryver group where you're taught to stuff books and spam readers every day? No thanks. Hey since this thread is back from the dead everybody should know David Gaughran did a great writeup on the Bookclicker scammers ruining romance. Buyer beware.

https://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/nanowrimo-writing-prompts-bad-boy-romance-edition/

*Note: this is my response to KMatthew who edited out the part of their post saying it's a privilege to be in a scammer group. It isn't. Chance Carter trained the ghostwriting publishers using scammy strategies who are destroying indie authors as we speak. He created Bookclicker to help them get more powerful and dupe real authors. These scammers are a mortal threat to everyone writing their own books. They want you buried or minimum wage slavewriting for them.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 11:45:51 AM by Phxsundog »

Offline MonkeyScribe

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3980
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2017, 11:25:15 AM »
You must not have ever signed up for anything in your life before, because 99 times out of 100, you input your email address into a field on anything online, it goes onto a list. Last I knew, Chancer's Ryver group was by invitation only. Most of the top KUers in Romance are in that group and there's a lot to be learned there. You being accepted is a privilege, and if you're going to complain instead of just hitting unsubscribe like any normal person would do, then you don't deserve to be in there in the first place.

99 out of a 100 may ask you for your email, but they don't generally ask for your password and access to your emails at the same time. When I sign up for this service, I'm giving them access to all of my hard-earned list of readers as well. All those emails can be downloaded, sent to without my permission, etc.

I wouldn't give my mother that kind of access, let alone someone I don't know in person. One bad move, and all my readers think I'm a spammer, or MailChimp shuts me down, or one of a hundred other bad things. May as well give these guys my KDP and PayPal while I'm at it.

Why not ask for a screen shot of your subscriber list count instead? That would satisfy the same verification that they're demanding and be a whole lot less sketchy sounding.

Offline AssanaBanana

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 265
  • Gender: Female
  • Los Angeles
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2017, 11:31:45 AM »
I pulled out of Bookclicker after a few months because it was simply too big a pain in the butt to use. It seemed like a good idea on paper, but ultimately didn't make my job easier - it made it more difficult. And I guess since I have no trouble getting Bookbub features I'll just stick to Bookbub and do my newsletter swaps the old fashioned way. Monetizing my list was never my goal - simply gaining visibility via swaps was all I was after, and I don't need Bookclicker to do that.

Offline Monique

  • Status: Isaac Asimov
  • ********
  • Posts: 11163
  • Gender: Female
  • California
    • View Profile
    • Written by Monique
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #97 on: November 13, 2017, 11:32:17 AM »
You mean a privilege to join a scammer Ryver group where you're taught to stuff books and spam readers every day? No thanks. Hey since this thread is back from the dead everybody should know David Gaughran did a great writeup on the Bookclicker scammers ruining romance. Buyer beware.

https://davidgaughran.wordpress.com/2017/10/24/nanowrimo-writing-prompts-bad-boy-romance-edition/

This.

Monique Martin | author website | facebook | twitter

Offline Huldra

  • Status: Jane Austen
  • ***
  • Posts: 364
  • Gender: Female
  • United Kingdom
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #98 on: November 13, 2017, 11:38:58 AM »
99 out of a 100 may ask you for your email, but they don't generally ask for your password and access to your emails at the same time. When I sign up for this service, I'm giving them access to all of my hard-earned list of readers as well. All those emails can be downloaded, sent to without my permission, etc.

Wait... are you serious? Can they actually do that? O.o

Offline MonkeyScribe

  • Status: Dostoevsky
  • ******
  • Posts: 3980
    • View Profile
Re: bookclicker.com
« Reply #99 on: November 13, 2017, 11:41:19 AM »
Wait... are you serious? Can they actually do that? O.o

If someone has your complete login information, they can do whatever you can do on the site. Among them are send out email campaigns and download a spreadsheet of all your subscribers. Maybe they'll do that, maybe not--it's supposedly being done to verify the size of your list--but I wouldn't recommend giving them the power.