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Author Topic: RESOLVED: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 7, #161)  (Read 12090 times)  

Offline X. Aratare

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2017, 02:26:27 PM »
There are currently gay and lesbian romance novels on Playster--not a lot, true, but some of them do appear to be fairly graphic.  Doesn't it stand to reason if it rejected the OP's novel strictly because it was lesbian romance there wouldn't be ANY lesbian romance to be found on the site? 

I'm reminded of a young friend of mine who was positive that her local utility company was discriminating against women because her and her SO's names were both on the bill, but despite the fact that she established the account any communication from the utility was always addressed to him.  She went on a huge Twitter rant, the torches and pitchforks came out, etc.  I pointed out that her SO's name started with a C, hers with an R.  Sure enough, the utility verified that multiple names on an account would always be listed in alphabetical order and whoever came first would get the emails.

Moral of the story--Occam's razor is a very real thing.  :D




Actually this is because not just ONE person is deciding which gets in and what does not.  I was told that Playster does not accept erotica or erotic romance. Mine are neither. Whats left?  It's gay.  And based on what I"m seeing here I'm not alone.

What happens is there are SOME people over at Playster who are the ones accepting or rejecting books that are finding the gay ones more objectionable even if another person wouldn't find them so and would allow a lot more risque stuff in. 

I remember when Google found an ad we ran (for people 18 plus mind) as not "family friend" because it was termed "gay romance". Got rid of the word "gay" and they approved the ad.  People told me well Google is really LGBT friendly and I'm like maybe they are but not everyone at that company is and clearly not everyone reviewing their ads were. Whether its a lack of training, discrimination, or whatever, what we have here is a problem.

Playster cannot tell me they aren't selling my book because its erotica or erotic romance (doesn't even have full sex in it, kissing and stuff) when really its about them thinking gay = porn automatically without actually reviewing the content. A lot of people still think that and its a constant struggle.  So yeah, if Playster wants to ban LGBT content fine. But don't pee on my leg and tell me its raining.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2017, 02:28:02 PM »
D2D has informed me from the start that Playster absolutely refuses my HETERO content. So this idea they're bashing gays only is silly.

I'm surprised they allowed any gay at all if they were refusing my hetero romances that were erotica.
 

Offline X. Aratare

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2017, 02:46:04 PM »
D2D has informed me from the start that Playster absolutely refuses my HETERO content. So this idea they're bashing gays only is silly.

I'm surprised they allowed any gay at all if they were refusing my hetero romances that were erotica.

I'm sorry but not all gay romance is erotica.  They don't want to have erotica on their site: fine. But mine isn't erotica and I comply with their TOS so the only reason is that they, like you clearly do, think gay = porn. It doesn't.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2017, 03:01:35 PM »
I'm sorry but not all gay romance is erotica.  They don't want to have erotica on their site: fine. But mine isn't erotica and I comply with their TOS so the only reason is that they, like you clearly do, think gay = porn. It doesn't.

I'm sorry, but not all hetero romance is erotica, either.

I've given up trying to convince D2D.

Everything I write, including self-help books, is rejected as erotica. I don't bother submitting anything to Playster any more unless it's under a different name.
 

Offline Mark Gardner

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2017, 03:09:55 PM »
As a proper Libertarian, I'm constantly at odds with both liberal and conservative philosophy. (I even had a listener call into the show, and refer to me on the air as the host's "liberal sidekick.")

I firmly believe that every person has the right to their own belief system. I believe that every person be allowed to express their ideals in whatever manner that they see fit. I also believe that censorship has no place in modern society. It's not the accepted or mainstream things that need the protecting. It's the stuff that enrages us. The stuff that flies against our core values that need protecting. I served in the military to protect everyone's right to be the most disgusting excuse for a human that they can be. I despise hate speech, and those that would engage in such acts. But I also demand that these wretches of human filth be allowed to spew their hatred, free from government censorship. That doesn't make me agreeable to their position or their hate, it makes me agreeable to freedom and the dearly held freedom of speech.

I'm not a member of the LGBT community, but it does't take a lot of executive-level thinking to draw parallels to the suppression of Black peoples in all aspects of of society in America's past to what the LGBT community is experiencing right now. Two of my currently-published books contain LGBT characters. I wouldn't classify either of these stories as LGBT. One of them even had a narrator cancel the audiobook contract because it featured an LGBT couple. I'm fine with that narrator exercising her rights to follow her beliefs, and not narrate my story. Just as I'm perfectly fine with Playster not allowing LGBT titles in their catalogue. They just need to just own it. Heck, even white supremacists can own their hatred. The issue with Playster is the sneaky tactics that they appear to be doing to rid themselves of LGBT titles. All while espousing diversity and freedom.

I have tweeted about this particular issue. I have reblogged about this issue. I have pulled all my titles from Playster's service. I have encouraged authors across all spectrums of careers from Prawns like me to best-sellers to become involved in clarifying exactly what service and content that Playster offers. If they are blocking LGBT content, which is their right to do, I would encourage all those same authors to remove their content from this service. I call it as I see it, and no amount of obfuscation will allow these people to hide their bigotry and hatred.


Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2017, 03:15:32 PM »
I think the issue that might be missed isn't so much Playster as D2D. Unless someone comes in and has gone Playster-direct saying Playster is doing this.

D2D is great. Love them. Direct deposits, uploading to Apple (I don't own a Mac), 10% cut, prompt payments...

What's not to love?

But D2D is a middle man and Playster is new. Imagine the contract. Playster saying "We don't want erotica." D2D submits non-erotica. Playster complains that some of the submissions were erotica. What is D2D to do?

Exactly what any middleman would do who wants that contract: start swinging the hammer more widely. Some innocents are going to get hit.
 

Offline X. Aratare

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2017, 03:24:30 PM »
I think the issue that might be missed isn't so much Playster as D2D. Unless someone comes in and has gone Playster-direct saying Playster is doing this.

D2D is great. Love them. Direct deposits, uploading to Apple (I don't own a Mac), 10% cut, prompt payments...

What's not to love?

But D2D is a middle man and Playster is new. Imagine the contract. Playster saying "We don't want erotica." D2D submits non-erotica. Playster complains that some of the submissions were erotica. What is D2D to do?

Exactly what any middleman would do who wants that contract: start swinging the hammer more widely. Some innocents are going to get hit.

This isn't D2D's decision (I asked, phoned them). This is Playster itself. 

I'm guessing that it's like on Amazon when you knew not to upload anything erotic on the weekends because good old Carlos F. and his crew would hit it with a sledgehammer when it would get through during the week, because Carlos F has ideas about certain types of stories and whether they should be on Amazon or not.

Offline X. Aratare

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2017, 03:27:11 PM »
I'm sorry, but not all hetero romance is erotica, either.

I've given up trying to convince D2D.

Everything I write, including self-help books, is rejected as erotica. I don't bother submitting anything to Playster any more unless it's under a different name.

Of course hetero isn't! I thought you said earlier that all your EROTICA had been banned, which though I think its stupid, lame and wrong, it is against their TOS. But Gay Romance isn't erotica, it can be, there's Gay Erotica, but the problem comes when a hammer happy person at Playster believes gay = porn whether it has chaste kisses or not.

So if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. They should publish your non-erotica, non-erotic romance.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2017, 03:35:26 PM »
Of course hetero isn't! I thought you said earlier that all your EROTICA had been banned, which though I think its stupid, lame and wrong, it is against their TOS. But Gay Romance isn't erotica, it can be, there's Gay Erotica, but the problem comes when a hammer happy person at Playster believes gay = porn whether it has chaste kisses or not.

So if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. They should publish your non-erotica, non-erotic romance.

My erotica. I understand that. Whether hetero or bi (I haven't written gay/lesbian only)
My romances.
My horror.
My sci-fi.
My fantasy.
And my self-help books.

Bah. I eventually got the non-erotica published, but they were on me like a dog on a steak bone.

But I don't mean to sound negative about D2D. They're really pretty good. I just think they're swinging that hammer wide. I think Playster encouraged them to be severe.

Of course, maybe I'm totally wrong. Maybe Playster said, "We don't want any LGBT material, no matter how clean." I just know that even my clean hetero stuff was rejected - but likely because I also write primarily erotica.
 

Offline David VanDyke

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2017, 03:53:10 PM »

I agree that it's any private company's prerogative to block content at their discretion, just as it would be my prerogative not to do business with an aggregator that chooses to partner with them.


It's absolutely everyone's right to decide how to conduct their own business. The thing that often concerns me is when people (not you, just piggybacking off your comment here) think emotionally instead of objectively about how closely associated businesses may be.

For example, most people won't do business with a business that holds values they find objectionable.

But, what about one tier away? Do they do business with the business that does business with the objectionable business?

What about two tiers away? Do we boycott Amazon because they do business with D2D who does business with Playster (assuming the worst turns out to be true about their policy)? Or do we boycott Adobe because their software is used by the objectionable business?

Again, just raising that question so that everyone can mull it over for themselves and decide where to draw that principle/practicality line.




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Offline David VanDyke

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #60 on: September 02, 2017, 03:57:07 PM »
As a proper Libertarian, I'm constantly at odds with both liberal and conservative philosophy. (I even had a listener call into the show, and refer to me on the air as the host's "liberal sidekick.")


I'm looking forward to our lunch this Tuesday. I can feel a bromance coming on. ;)


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Offline Dan Wood

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #61 on: September 02, 2017, 04:18:59 PM »
Hi everyone,

Jumping in here to let you know we are working on this. I believe this is just a misunderstanding over what is meant by some of the BISAC categories we sent Playster. We have seen such issues before since the BISAC standard is not international and the industry is working on new standards like THEMA to address such issues in the future.  We became aware of the issue on Thursday and we hope to have some news soon.  Please keep in mind that this is a holiday weekend in both the US and Canada.  Problems like these can take a few days to work out and correct.

Thanks,

Dan Wood
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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #62 on: September 02, 2017, 05:34:06 PM »
Hi everyone,

Jumping in here to let you know we are working on this. I believe this is just a misunderstanding over what is meant by some of the BISAC categories we sent Playster. We have seen such issues before since the BISAC standard is not international and the industry is working on new standards like THEMA to address such issues in the future.  We became aware of the issue on Thursday and we hope to have some news soon.  Please keep in mind that this is a holiday weekend in both the US and Canada.  Problems like these can take a few days to work out and correct.

Thanks,

Dan Wood
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Draft2Digital

Thank you, Dan!

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Offline KingSweden

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #63 on: September 02, 2017, 05:34:27 PM »
Well that's [crappy] of them. I'd definitely spread the word like you're doing.


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Offline Mark Gardner

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #64 on: September 02, 2017, 05:44:33 PM »
I'm looking forward to our lunch this Tuesday. I can feel a bromance coming on. ;)
Sweet! Are you coming up to sleepy biscuit to see me? There's a great hot dog cart down the street from the station. The dogs are so good, I even wrote the proprieter into my second superhero novel.

Offline X. Aratare

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #65 on: September 02, 2017, 06:35:26 PM »
Neither my title nor the ones by authors I've spoken to were marked as erotica.

I'm raising awareness because, if you actually read my original post, many of us attempted to contact both D2D and Playster regarding this matter. We've been ignored. That speaks volumes.

I would like for Playster to be more transparent regarding their policy. As I've said, my book had been accepted twice, then suddenly it was rejected. I'm wide on all channels, so one retailer certainly isn't going to hurt me. My objective isn't to shut Playster down or force them to accept LGBT+ books, but it is to get answers. Being that neither company has responded, my next step was to get louder. Simply pretending this is okay and ignoring it doesn't sit well with me.

When it seemed to be just me affected, my plan was to contact both companies and leave it at that. However, it isn't just me, and it isn't just LGBT romance; many non-romance, non-erotica titles have been suddenly rejected. I'm a big believer in coming together to make our voices heard. Often that is the only way to get anywhere, because it's easy to ignore one person but far more difficult to ignore a chorus.

If this is the mistake of a single employee, then I'm sure that Playster will remedy it and perhaps clarify their content guidelines. If it isn't, though, and Playster says they're no longer accepting any LGBT fiction, then readers and authors can make their own decisions.

Neither were mind labeled erotica or erotica romance so I'm not really sure unless D2D is actually sending different categories onto them I cannot see.

Here's the thing (and I said this to D2D on Thursday when I called about this) if Playster doesn't want LGBT books FINE. But it needs to say that.  Don't hide behind its "erotica" or "erotic romance". It's their site, but BE HONEST. 

And finally, if Playster does want LGBT books on its site, it needs to be made aware that its process to review books is broken. Mine are not erotica. They are not erotic romance.  So they should want to sell them. 

I give kudos to D2D and Elizabeth for raising the flag here.  If its a mistake fine, if its by design also fine. But I need to know whether I'm wasting my time submitting to them.

Offline CoraBuhlert

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2017, 08:10:38 PM »
None of my LGBT titles were erotica or erotic romance either. The romances are sweet and one isn't even romance at all, but post-apocalyptic. And none of them contains anything more graphic than a kiss. And yet, all of them are gone from Playster. So yes, there's definitely a pattern there.

Offline elizabethbarone

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2017, 08:14:15 PM »
Neither were mind labeled erotica or erotica romance so I'm not really sure unless D2D is actually sending different categories onto them I cannot see.

Here's the thing (and I said this to D2D on Thursday when I called about this) if Playster doesn't want LGBT books FINE. But it needs to say that.  Don't hide behind its "erotica" or "erotic romance". It's their site, but BE HONEST. 

And finally, if Playster does want LGBT books on its site, it needs to be made aware that its process to review books is broken. Mine are not erotica. They are not erotic romance.  So they should want to sell them. 

I give kudos to D2D and Elizabeth for raising the flag here.  If its a mistake fine, if its by design also fine. But I need to know whether I'm wasting my time submitting to them.

My feelings exactly.

None of my LGBT titles were erotica or erotic romance either. The romances are sweet and one isn't even romance at all, but post-apocalyptic. And none of them contains anything more graphic than a kiss. And yet, all of them are gone from Playster. So yes, there's definitely a pattern there.

Yup -- whether by mistake or otherwise.

And just to make it clear, in response to another post upthread, in no way am I seeking any legal action. Just trying to make things more fair and clear for authors of LGBT fiction.

Another element of this that I thought was interesting: I couldn't find any LGBT books on Playster, but another author who looked too said they have a Sensual section.

Their guidelines definitely need to be clarified!

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2017, 08:53:04 PM »
Sweet! Are you coming up to sleepy biscuit to see me? There's a great hot dog cart down the street from the station. The dogs are so good, I even wrote the proprieter into my second superhero novel.

Oops. My face is red. Wrong fellow Arizona author with a common Anglo-Saxon name on Tuesday.

We could get together some other day, though. Where're you at? I'm north of Tucson...

And now I'm curious about "sleepy biscuit."



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Offline Mark Gardner

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #69 on: September 02, 2017, 10:13:20 PM »
Oops. My face is red. Wrong fellow Arizona author with a common Anglo-Saxon name on Tuesday.
We could get together some other day, though. Where're you at? I'm north of Tucson...
And now I'm curious about "sleepy biscuit."

I figured as much. I thought for a few moments that I had committed to an event and forgot, but I wouldn't've scheduled something so close to getting back from San Francisco CC, so I figured mistaken identity.

I'm in Prescott. We call it biscuit because of the unending debate on the pronounciation of Prescott. A classmate of mine at NAU coined the term when we were getting our community Developement degrees. There were three of us that had a rockin good time at NAU. A liberal, a libertarian, and a conservative. We liked to mess with the squares...

Let's see, I've got the Prescott Comic Con on the 30th, and I think something in Payson in November. I've been trying to wrangle an invite to Tuscon CC, but no replies to my emails. But if you're up here for fun, let me know, we can meet up. Our wives can commiserate about our author hijinks...

Offline she-la-ti-da

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #70 on: September 03, 2017, 06:13:50 AM »
No one is calling for tar and pitchforks, just some communication and clarity. To insinuate -- or outright state -- otherwise is being a bit of a pot stirrer. When something happens, then you find out it's happening to others, and there's not a drop of discussion from the company in question, one is left to make one's own conclusions.

Like Amazon, it's likely if there is an issue with a certain type of book, removal of said type isn't going to be enmasse, but take some amount of filtering down. So to say, well, X books are there, when there have been verified statements that some are no longer, is nonsense.

And how is anyone to know to take their business elsewhere when we aren't supposed to let people know what is going on? Geesh.

D2D is on it. Now we know they're aware of the situation, and that's good. Let's get this stuff explained, and then go on from there. All any of us are asking for is a clear, honest statement about what will and will not be accepted so we can make relevant business decisions.
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Offline elizabethbarone

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #71 on: September 03, 2017, 07:39:08 AM »
No one is calling for tar and pitchforks, just some communication and clarity. To insinuate -- or outright state -- otherwise is being a bit of a pot stirrer. When something happens, then you find out it's happening to others, and there's not a drop of discussion from the company in question, one is left to make one's own conclusions.

Like Amazon, it's likely if there is an issue with a certain type of book, removal of said type isn't going to be enmasse, but take some amount of filtering down. So to say, well, X books are there, when there have been verified statements that some are no longer, is nonsense.

And how is anyone to know to take their business elsewhere when we aren't supposed to let people know what is going on? Geesh.

D2D is on it. Now we know they're aware of the situation, and that's good. Let's get this stuff explained, and then go on from there. All any of us are asking for is a clear, honest statement about what will and will not be accepted so we can make relevant business decisions.

THIS.

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Offline Bill Hiatt

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #72 on: September 03, 2017, 08:00:45 AM »
We'll see what D2D does, but it is nice Dan at least made us aware that they know there is a problem. (Recently, Amazon's been a lot slower about that.)


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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction (Update Pg 3, #62)
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2017, 08:12:20 AM »
We'll see what D2D does, but it is nice Dan at least made us aware that they know there is a problem. (Recently, Amazon's been a lot slower about that.)

I was so pleased to see Dan's post in here. I'm really glad they're looking into things.

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Offline RJCasta

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Re: Playster Rejecting LGBT+ Fiction
« Reply #74 on: September 03, 2017, 11:06:47 AM »
Of course hetero isn't! I thought you said earlier that all your EROTICA had been banned, which though I think its stupid, lame and wrong, it is against their TOS. But Gay Romance isn't erotica, it can be, there's Gay Erotica, but the problem comes when a hammer happy person at Playster believes gay = porn whether it has chaste kisses or not.

So if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. They should publish your non-erotica, non-erotic romance.

On a completely unrelated note, I love your covers. :-)
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