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A ruthless murder and a stolen shipment of gold.

At school, sixteen-year-old Nikaia Wales endures the taunts of bullies who call her a “half-breed.” At home, she worries about how her family will react if she reveals her growing feelings for the quiet boy next door.

Those are soon the least of her troubles. Nikaia discovers a hidden cache of gold, and when police find a corpse nearby, her father becomes a suspect. Worse, Elias Doyle is circling, hungry to avenge his brother’s death.

Nikaia desperately searches for clues to save her father. In her quest to find the killer, she learns about the power of family, friendship, and young love....

Author Topic: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences  (Read 3659 times)  

Online Bob Stewart

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Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« on: September 03, 2017, 10:51:31 AM »
I've been in KDP Select for the last year or two but am now planning to go wide for various reasons.

I'm giving serious thought to going through Pronoun for all channels. I've read all the threads I can find on Pronoun from the past two years and these are what I surmise to be the pros and cons:

Pros
- 70% royalties at less than $2.99
- ability to price free on Amazon
- one upload/interface to deal with

Cons
- less control over layout/no customizing backmatter for various outlets
- some people complain reporting can be delayed
- some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate
- Category matching for the non-Amazon sites probably doesn't work well

Is there anything else I should be considering?

The pricing flexibility would seem particularly useful for Bookbubs, when a $.99 promo with a book that's wide means earning just 35% at Amazon.

The category matching seems to be a problem with D2D also. Going direct with each retailer seems the only way to really pin those down.

In all honesty, my sales are so modest I can't say any of it makes too big a difference, but the majority of my sales/discoverability occurs around a Bookbub ad and being in KDP Select, they seem only amenable to free offers, and not even those very often.

Thanks.

Online ShayneRutherford

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 01:22:03 PM »
One con is that you can't do AMS ads on books that are not uploaded through Amazon.
     

Online Bob Stewart

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 01:40:11 PM »
One con is that you can't do AMS ads on books that are not uploaded through Amazon.

Shayne,

Yes, I should have listed that.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 01:51:50 PM »
The big CON for me is that they only do PayPal, not Direct Deposit.

I emailed them and they replied that it might be something they would add in the future.

If a middleman doesn't have Direct Deposit, I won't use them. I definitely never use PayPal for income.
 

Online Travelian

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 03:26:42 PM »
Pros:
- 70% above $9.99 as well. Good for box sets.
- ISBN. You can change the publisher name to whatever name you want. But it still belongs to Pronoun and is non-transferable - like any other free ISBN from a vendor.
- Gets you into Google Play which isn't taking new authors.
- No discounting on Google Play for the US.

Cons:
- International royalties for Kobo and Amazon are a little less.
- No access to promos that you'd get by going direct with iBooks, Kobo and B&N.
- May have difficulty linking to other books not in Pronoun.

Offline Mercedes Vox

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 05:47:17 PM »
Disclaimer: I use KDP for Amazon, and I am currently wide using Pronoun after coming off all-in KU on July 31. I have used D2D in the past without any major issues, but I have determined that Pronoun is a better fit for me at the present time. As always, YMMV and probably does.



Cons
- less control over layout/no customizing backmatter for various outlets

While it's true you can't customize back-matter for each retailer, you have complete control over the layout of your ebooks. Instead of uploading a docx for Pronoun to format for you, upload your own spiffy epub and mobi. 

- some people complain reporting can be delayed

I admit that I'm not an obsessive sales-checker. Each day during morning coffee and again before it's time to cook supper, I consult my KDP and Pronoun dashboards (and B&N for the one title I submit direct there and only there for reasons). I almost always see that my Pronoun numbers have changed from my previous visit. Then each day I receive an automated email from Pronoun with a rundown of the previous day's sales. That's good enough for me, but I acknowledge and appreciate that it may not be adequate speed-of-reporting for everyone.

- some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate

I had only three titles on Pronoun before I decided to go all-in with KU earlier this year, so I've only been through two Pronoun payment cycles and with a very limited catalogue. I set my own prices for non-USA markets. My payments for those two cycles matched expected royalties within a couple pennies. I went wide using Pronoun the second week of August, so the earliest I'll see payment for my full catalogue is November 1. If there are any significant discrepancies at that time, I'll report them.


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Offline Herc- The Reluctant Geek

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 05:56:02 PM »
For most non-US folk, the fact that pronoun pays to Paypal is a huge plus. Currently, I have to use Payoneer which is a great service but expensive. Cheaper than checks and wire (unless you get some nice high royalties, of course). Also, the paying almost double for $0.99 cent stuff is excellent.

My problem with pronoun at the moment is that I can't seem to get my covers uploaded. Been trying all weekend with two books. One stuck using Microsoft Edge, but that was after about 10 tries. The other I've at least 20 times with a bunch of browsers but the site simply won't accept my cover :(

Offline Patty Jansen

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 06:22:49 PM »
I opened an account, started reading, and stopped right after the bit where it says 41% royalties for international sales. That's, like, 75% of my income. Thank you, NOT interested. *closes tab*

Online Travelian

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 06:40:56 PM »
Pronoun's international royalty rates:

International (i.e. outside of the US and Canada)

For Amazon sales in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand, you receive 41% of your books list price. You receive 45% for Amazon sales in India and China, and 46% for Amazon sales in all other countries. You receive 50% for Amazon.com sales made by customers outside of the US.
 
For sales on Apple iBooks, you receive 70% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
There are no international Barnes & Noble stores.
 
For sales on Kobo, you receive 50% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
For sales on Google Play, you receive 52% of your books list price in all international territories.

For sales on OverDrive and Bibliotheca, you receive 70% of your books library price in all international territories.
The list price is the price in USD that you set when you publish your book through Pronoun.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 06:43:25 PM by Travelian »

Offline Glynn Stewart

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 07:23:17 PM »
I opened an account, started reading, and stopped right after the bit where it says 41% royalties for international sales. That's, like, 75% of my income. Thank you, NOT interested. *closes tab*

What Patty said. This was the deal-breaker for me - I'm not quite at 75% of my income, but cutting my international royalties by roughly 40% would be a painful cut to make.

I'd be better off hiring someone to do direct uploads everywhere. It would work out in my favor :D


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Online TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 12:03:11 AM »
Is Pronoun better/worse than Streetlib in delivering sales data from Googleplay?


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Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 12:42:11 AM »
I opened an account, started reading, and stopped right after the bit where it says 41% royalties for international sales. That's, like, 75% of my income. Thank you, NOT interested. *closes tab*

This

Pronoun's international royalty rates:

International (i.e. outside of the US and Canada)

For Amazon sales in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand, you receive 41% of your books list price. You receive 45% for Amazon sales in India and China, and 46% for Amazon sales in all other countries. You receive 50% for Amazon.com sales made by customers outside of the US.
 
For sales on Apple iBooks, you receive 70% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
There are no international Barnes & Noble stores.
 
For sales on Kobo, you receive 50% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
For sales on Google Play, you receive 52% of your books list price in all international territories.

For sales on OverDrive and Bibliotheca, you receive 70% of your books library price in all international territories.
The list price is the price in USD that you set when you publish your book through Pronoun.

And this.

I was mainly looking at how to get into Google Play, but if that's what they pay, I dont think I'll bother.

Online Travelian

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 12:55:28 AM »
I was mainly looking at how to get into Google Play, but if that's what they pay, I dont think I'll bother.
I thought the same thing until I researched GP's international royalties. Based off what I've read Pronoun isn't taking anything off the top. That's basically what GP pays.

Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 12:58:24 AM »
I thought the same thing until I researched GP's international royalties. Based off what I've read Pronoun isn't taking anything off the top. That's basically what GP pays.

Which also put me off.

Online TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 01:21:11 AM »
Which also put me off.

Put you off what? Pronoun? Googleplay?

Googleplay will generally set their own price for your book , often at a higher level than you sell on Amazon. The strategy there seems to be to set your book at a much higher price, say$9.99 and then let Google find the best level for the genre, current market. Most people I have read who do this have reported a return much akin to the 70% you get from Amazon. What's not to like?


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Offline Patty Jansen

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2017, 01:25:10 AM »
I thought the same thing until I researched GP's international royalties. Based off what I've read Pronoun isn't taking anything off the top. That's basically what GP pays.

This is what GP pays.

But, there is a very big but.

They will discount your book by about 30%, and will pay you over the retail price you set.

So, to stop Amazon price-matching, I've priced my books at $9.99. GP does its discounting thing, and the price ends up being about $6. GP readers are prepared to pay much more for books, and the site represses cheap and free books, so your book gets sold for $6 or thereabouts, and you get paid 52% of $9.99... which is more than Amazon pays you.

Online Lydniz

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 01:45:51 AM »
The big CON for me is that they only do PayPal, not Direct Deposit.

I emailed them and they replied that it might be something they would add in the future.

If a middleman doesn't have Direct Deposit, I won't use them. I definitely never use PayPal for income.

I couldn't get my old Google Play account to fire up again so I listed there via Pronoun, but I've been so appalled at Paypal's interface and "customer service" in the past month or two that I'm giving Google Play another go. It says something about Paypal if I'm prepared to spend time struggling with Google Partner Center, which itself is the work of the Devil.

Online TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 01:58:42 AM »
I couldn't get my old Google Play account to fire up again so I listed there via Pronoun, but I've been so appalled at Paypal's interface and "customer service" in the past month or two that I'm giving Google Play another go. It says something about Paypal if I'm prepared to spend time struggling with Google Partner Center, which itself is the work of the Devil.

I've been with PayPal for over 20 years and with many different businesses and payment scenarios. I've never had a problem with them. I think people don't understand how it works, or don't realise that PayPal's regulations are required to meet the strictest rules of any country (I think Austria or Switzerland are the toughest) and this means they can be pretty damned straight jacketed in how they deal with issues that arise. This can lead to dissatisfaction by the user. It's always worth ringing them because you will often find that a simple change in the way you operate will bring about a more satisfactory conclusion. IMO


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Online Lydniz

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 02:34:34 AM »
I've been with PayPal for over 20 years and with many different businesses and payment scenarios. I've never had a problem with them. I think people don't understand how it works, or don't realise that PayPal's regulations are required to meet the strictest rules of any country (I think Austria or Switzerland are the toughest) and this means they can be pretty damned straight jacketed in how they deal with issues that arise. This can lead to dissatisfaction by the user. It's always worth ringing them because you will often find that a simple change in the way you operate will bring about a more satisfactory conclusion. IMO

I have no problem with their regulations, but I can't find my way around the website, and it's difficult to get through to them on the phone IME. I'll refrain from boring the boards with my rant about Paypal, but as a general observation, I much prefer to choose a service which is pre-designed to suit my convenience, rather than change myself to suit the convenience of the service. I'll happily use Paypal on a superficial level to make payments, but over the past few weeks it's become clear to me that a deeper relationship between us is sadly not going to work. :)

Online TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 03:07:02 AM »
I have no problem with their regulations, but I can't find my way around the website, and it's difficult to get through to them on the phone IME. I'll refrain from boring the boards with my rant about Paypal, but as a general observation, I much prefer to choose a service which is pre-designed to suit my convenience, rather than change myself to suit the convenience of the service. I'll happily use Paypal on a superficial level to make payments, but over the past few weeks it's become clear to me that a deeper relationship between us is sadly not going to work. :)

Hah! No problem. :P Banks are exactly the same. They think my money is theirs and when I want it, they make me do the jumping when it should be the other way around.


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Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 03:13:42 AM »
This is what GP pays.

But, there is a very big but.

They will discount your book by about 30%, and will pay you over the retail price you set.

So, to stop Amazon price-matching, I've priced my books at $9.99. GP does its discounting thing, and the price ends up being about $6. GP readers are prepared to pay much more for books, and the site represses cheap and free books, so your book gets sold for $6 or thereabouts, and you get paid 52% of $9.99... which is more than Amazon pays you.

 :o

Ok, that makes more sense. But for the life of me, putting 9.99 on my books is something I would never have thought of.

Offline toddhicks209

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 04:04:06 AM »
I've been in KDP Select for the last year or two but am now planning to go wide for various reasons.

I'm giving serious thought to going through Pronoun for all channels. I've read all the threads I can find on Pronoun from the past two years and these are what I surmise to be the pros and cons:

Pros
- 70% royalties at less than $2.99
- ability to price free on Amazon
- one upload/interface to deal with

Cons
- less control over layout/no customizing backmatter for various outlets
- some people complain reporting can be delayed
- some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate
- Category matching for the non-Amazon sites probably doesn't work well

Is there anything else I should be considering?

The pricing flexibility would seem particularly useful for Bookbubs, when a $.99 promo with a book that's wide means earning just 35% at Amazon.

The category matching seems to be a problem with D2D also. Going direct with each retailer seems the only way to really pin those down.

In all honesty, my sales are so modest I can't say any of it makes too big a difference, but the majority of my sales/discoverability occurs around a Bookbub ad and being in KDP Select, they seem only amenable to free offers, and not even those very often.

Thanks.
You're right about complaints regarding getting paid less than the promised rate. Over the last year or so, I've only been paid half of the 70 % royalty rate for selling a book at the $2.99 range.

Todd Hicks

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 04:39:26 AM »
You're right about complaints regarding getting paid less than the promised rate. Over the last year or so, I've only been paid half of the 70 % royalty rate for selling a book at the $2.99 range.

Have you taken this up with Pronoun? I'd be very interested in their explanation.


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Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 04:34:29 PM »
I've been with PayPal for over 20 years and with many different businesses and payment scenarios. I've never had a problem with them.

Over 20 years ago, I did. PayPal had a problem with their system getting hacked and credit card info for thousands of users flittering out to the winds. At the time, they refused to reverse fraudulent charges and I was forced to get my credit card company to do so. PayPal sent me a nasty email or two and I closed my account.

Maybe they got better. But I got burned by the experience. They can collect their "fees" from other people. Ain't going to be me.
 

Offline TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 06:30:02 PM »
Maybe they got better. But I got burned by the experience.

They got better.

Part of this was the integration into ebay. There are all sorts of protections in place now.

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