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A ruthless murder and a stolen shipment of gold.

At school, sixteen-year-old Nikaia Wales endures the taunts of bullies who call her a “half-breed.” At home, she worries about how her family will react if she reveals her growing feelings for the quiet boy next door.

Those are soon the least of her troubles. Nikaia discovers a hidden cache of gold, and when police find a corpse nearby, her father becomes a suspect. Worse, Elias Doyle is circling, hungry to avenge his brother’s death.

Nikaia desperately searches for clues to save her father. In her quest to find the killer, she learns about the power of family, friendship, and young love....

Author Topic: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences  (Read 3664 times)  

Offline Bob Stewart

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Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« on: September 03, 2017, 10:51:31 AM »
I've been in KDP Select for the last year or two but am now planning to go wide for various reasons.

I'm giving serious thought to going through Pronoun for all channels. I've read all the threads I can find on Pronoun from the past two years and these are what I surmise to be the pros and cons:

Pros
- 70% royalties at less than $2.99
- ability to price free on Amazon
- one upload/interface to deal with

Cons
- less control over layout/no customizing backmatter for various outlets
- some people complain reporting can be delayed
- some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate
- Category matching for the non-Amazon sites probably doesn't work well

Is there anything else I should be considering?

The pricing flexibility would seem particularly useful for Bookbubs, when a $.99 promo with a book that's wide means earning just 35% at Amazon.

The category matching seems to be a problem with D2D also. Going direct with each retailer seems the only way to really pin those down.

In all honesty, my sales are so modest I can't say any of it makes too big a difference, but the majority of my sales/discoverability occurs around a Bookbub ad and being in KDP Select, they seem only amenable to free offers, and not even those very often.

Thanks.

Online ShayneRutherford

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 01:22:03 PM »
One con is that you can't do AMS ads on books that are not uploaded through Amazon.
     

Offline Bob Stewart

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 01:40:11 PM »
One con is that you can't do AMS ads on books that are not uploaded through Amazon.

Shayne,

Yes, I should have listed that.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 01:51:50 PM »
The big CON for me is that they only do PayPal, not Direct Deposit.

I emailed them and they replied that it might be something they would add in the future.

If a middleman doesn't have Direct Deposit, I won't use them. I definitely never use PayPal for income.
 

Online Travelian

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 03:26:42 PM »
Pros:
- 70% above $9.99 as well. Good for box sets.
- ISBN. You can change the publisher name to whatever name you want. But it still belongs to Pronoun and is non-transferable - like any other free ISBN from a vendor.
- Gets you into Google Play which isn't taking new authors.
- No discounting on Google Play for the US.

Cons:
- International royalties for Kobo and Amazon are a little less.
- No access to promos that you'd get by going direct with iBooks, Kobo and B&N.
- May have difficulty linking to other books not in Pronoun.

Offline Mercedes Vox

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 05:47:17 PM »
Disclaimer: I use KDP for Amazon, and I am currently wide using Pronoun after coming off all-in KU on July 31. I have used D2D in the past without any major issues, but I have determined that Pronoun is a better fit for me at the present time. As always, YMMV and probably does.



Cons
- less control over layout/no customizing backmatter for various outlets

While it's true you can't customize back-matter for each retailer, you have complete control over the layout of your ebooks. Instead of uploading a docx for Pronoun to format for you, upload your own spiffy epub and mobi. 

- some people complain reporting can be delayed

I admit that I'm not an obsessive sales-checker. Each day during morning coffee and again before it's time to cook supper, I consult my KDP and Pronoun dashboards (and B&N for the one title I submit direct there and only there for reasons). I almost always see that my Pronoun numbers have changed from my previous visit. Then each day I receive an automated email from Pronoun with a rundown of the previous day's sales. That's good enough for me, but I acknowledge and appreciate that it may not be adequate speed-of-reporting for everyone.

- some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate

I had only three titles on Pronoun before I decided to go all-in with KU earlier this year, so I've only been through two Pronoun payment cycles and with a very limited catalogue. I set my own prices for non-USA markets. My payments for those two cycles matched expected royalties within a couple pennies. I went wide using Pronoun the second week of August, so the earliest I'll see payment for my full catalogue is November 1. If there are any significant discrepancies at that time, I'll report them.


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Offline Herc- The Reluctant Geek

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 05:56:02 PM »
For most non-US folk, the fact that pronoun pays to Paypal is a huge plus. Currently, I have to use Payoneer which is a great service but expensive. Cheaper than checks and wire (unless you get some nice high royalties, of course). Also, the paying almost double for $0.99 cent stuff is excellent.

My problem with pronoun at the moment is that I can't seem to get my covers uploaded. Been trying all weekend with two books. One stuck using Microsoft Edge, but that was after about 10 tries. The other I've at least 20 times with a bunch of browsers but the site simply won't accept my cover :(

Online Patty Jansen

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 06:22:49 PM »
I opened an account, started reading, and stopped right after the bit where it says 41% royalties for international sales. That's, like, 75% of my income. Thank you, NOT interested. *closes tab*

Online Travelian

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 06:40:56 PM »
Pronoun's international royalty rates:

International (i.e. outside of the US and Canada)

For Amazon sales in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand, you receive 41% of your books list price. You receive 45% for Amazon sales in India and China, and 46% for Amazon sales in all other countries. You receive 50% for Amazon.com sales made by customers outside of the US.
 
For sales on Apple iBooks, you receive 70% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
There are no international Barnes & Noble stores.
 
For sales on Kobo, you receive 50% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
For sales on Google Play, you receive 52% of your books list price in all international territories.

For sales on OverDrive and Bibliotheca, you receive 70% of your books library price in all international territories.
The list price is the price in USD that you set when you publish your book through Pronoun.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 06:43:25 PM by Travelian »

Offline Glynn Stewart

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 07:23:17 PM »
I opened an account, started reading, and stopped right after the bit where it says 41% royalties for international sales. That's, like, 75% of my income. Thank you, NOT interested. *closes tab*

What Patty said. This was the deal-breaker for me - I'm not quite at 75% of my income, but cutting my international royalties by roughly 40% would be a painful cut to make.

I'd be better off hiring someone to do direct uploads everywhere. It would work out in my favor :D


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Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 12:03:11 AM »
Is Pronoun better/worse than Streetlib in delivering sales data from Googleplay?


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Online TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 12:42:11 AM »
I opened an account, started reading, and stopped right after the bit where it says 41% royalties for international sales. That's, like, 75% of my income. Thank you, NOT interested. *closes tab*

This

Pronoun's international royalty rates:

International (i.e. outside of the US and Canada)

For Amazon sales in the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand, you receive 41% of your books list price. You receive 45% for Amazon sales in India and China, and 46% for Amazon sales in all other countries. You receive 50% for Amazon.com sales made by customers outside of the US.
 
For sales on Apple iBooks, you receive 70% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
There are no international Barnes & Noble stores.
 
For sales on Kobo, you receive 50% of your books list price in all international territories.
 
For sales on Google Play, you receive 52% of your books list price in all international territories.

For sales on OverDrive and Bibliotheca, you receive 70% of your books library price in all international territories.
The list price is the price in USD that you set when you publish your book through Pronoun.

And this.

I was mainly looking at how to get into Google Play, but if that's what they pay, I dont think I'll bother.

Online Travelian

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 12:55:28 AM »
I was mainly looking at how to get into Google Play, but if that's what they pay, I dont think I'll bother.
I thought the same thing until I researched GP's international royalties. Based off what I've read Pronoun isn't taking anything off the top. That's basically what GP pays.

Online TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 12:58:24 AM »
I thought the same thing until I researched GP's international royalties. Based off what I've read Pronoun isn't taking anything off the top. That's basically what GP pays.

Which also put me off.

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 01:21:11 AM »
Which also put me off.

Put you off what? Pronoun? Googleplay?

Googleplay will generally set their own price for your book , often at a higher level than you sell on Amazon. The strategy there seems to be to set your book at a much higher price, say$9.99 and then let Google find the best level for the genre, current market. Most people I have read who do this have reported a return much akin to the 70% you get from Amazon. What's not to like?


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Online Patty Jansen

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2017, 01:25:10 AM »
I thought the same thing until I researched GP's international royalties. Based off what I've read Pronoun isn't taking anything off the top. That's basically what GP pays.

This is what GP pays.

But, there is a very big but.

They will discount your book by about 30%, and will pay you over the retail price you set.

So, to stop Amazon price-matching, I've priced my books at $9.99. GP does its discounting thing, and the price ends up being about $6. GP readers are prepared to pay much more for books, and the site represses cheap and free books, so your book gets sold for $6 or thereabouts, and you get paid 52% of $9.99... which is more than Amazon pays you.

Offline Lydniz

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2017, 01:45:51 AM »
The big CON for me is that they only do PayPal, not Direct Deposit.

I emailed them and they replied that it might be something they would add in the future.

If a middleman doesn't have Direct Deposit, I won't use them. I definitely never use PayPal for income.

I couldn't get my old Google Play account to fire up again so I listed there via Pronoun, but I've been so appalled at Paypal's interface and "customer service" in the past month or two that I'm giving Google Play another go. It says something about Paypal if I'm prepared to spend time struggling with Google Partner Center, which itself is the work of the Devil.

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2017, 01:58:42 AM »
I couldn't get my old Google Play account to fire up again so I listed there via Pronoun, but I've been so appalled at Paypal's interface and "customer service" in the past month or two that I'm giving Google Play another go. It says something about Paypal if I'm prepared to spend time struggling with Google Partner Center, which itself is the work of the Devil.

I've been with PayPal for over 20 years and with many different businesses and payment scenarios. I've never had a problem with them. I think people don't understand how it works, or don't realise that PayPal's regulations are required to meet the strictest rules of any country (I think Austria or Switzerland are the toughest) and this means they can be pretty damned straight jacketed in how they deal with issues that arise. This can lead to dissatisfaction by the user. It's always worth ringing them because you will often find that a simple change in the way you operate will bring about a more satisfactory conclusion. IMO


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Offline Lydniz

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2017, 02:34:34 AM »
I've been with PayPal for over 20 years and with many different businesses and payment scenarios. I've never had a problem with them. I think people don't understand how it works, or don't realise that PayPal's regulations are required to meet the strictest rules of any country (I think Austria or Switzerland are the toughest) and this means they can be pretty damned straight jacketed in how they deal with issues that arise. This can lead to dissatisfaction by the user. It's always worth ringing them because you will often find that a simple change in the way you operate will bring about a more satisfactory conclusion. IMO

I have no problem with their regulations, but I can't find my way around the website, and it's difficult to get through to them on the phone IME. I'll refrain from boring the boards with my rant about Paypal, but as a general observation, I much prefer to choose a service which is pre-designed to suit my convenience, rather than change myself to suit the convenience of the service. I'll happily use Paypal on a superficial level to make payments, but over the past few weeks it's become clear to me that a deeper relationship between us is sadly not going to work. :)

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2017, 03:07:02 AM »
I have no problem with their regulations, but I can't find my way around the website, and it's difficult to get through to them on the phone IME. I'll refrain from boring the boards with my rant about Paypal, but as a general observation, I much prefer to choose a service which is pre-designed to suit my convenience, rather than change myself to suit the convenience of the service. I'll happily use Paypal on a superficial level to make payments, but over the past few weeks it's become clear to me that a deeper relationship between us is sadly not going to work. :)

Hah! No problem. :P Banks are exactly the same. They think my money is theirs and when I want it, they make me do the jumping when it should be the other way around.


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Online TimothyEllis

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 03:13:42 AM »
This is what GP pays.

But, there is a very big but.

They will discount your book by about 30%, and will pay you over the retail price you set.

So, to stop Amazon price-matching, I've priced my books at $9.99. GP does its discounting thing, and the price ends up being about $6. GP readers are prepared to pay much more for books, and the site represses cheap and free books, so your book gets sold for $6 or thereabouts, and you get paid 52% of $9.99... which is more than Amazon pays you.

 :o

Ok, that makes more sense. But for the life of me, putting 9.99 on my books is something I would never have thought of.

Offline toddhicks209

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 04:04:06 AM »
I've been in KDP Select for the last year or two but am now planning to go wide for various reasons.

I'm giving serious thought to going through Pronoun for all channels. I've read all the threads I can find on Pronoun from the past two years and these are what I surmise to be the pros and cons:

Pros
- 70% royalties at less than $2.99
- ability to price free on Amazon
- one upload/interface to deal with

Cons
- less control over layout/no customizing backmatter for various outlets
- some people complain reporting can be delayed
- some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate
- Category matching for the non-Amazon sites probably doesn't work well

Is there anything else I should be considering?

The pricing flexibility would seem particularly useful for Bookbubs, when a $.99 promo with a book that's wide means earning just 35% at Amazon.

The category matching seems to be a problem with D2D also. Going direct with each retailer seems the only way to really pin those down.

In all honesty, my sales are so modest I can't say any of it makes too big a difference, but the majority of my sales/discoverability occurs around a Bookbub ad and being in KDP Select, they seem only amenable to free offers, and not even those very often.

Thanks.
You're right about complaints regarding getting paid less than the promised rate. Over the last year or so, I've only been paid half of the 70 % royalty rate for selling a book at the $2.99 range.

Todd Hicks

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 04:39:26 AM »
You're right about complaints regarding getting paid less than the promised rate. Over the last year or so, I've only been paid half of the 70 % royalty rate for selling a book at the $2.99 range.

Have you taken this up with Pronoun? I'd be very interested in their explanation.


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Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 04:34:29 PM »
I've been with PayPal for over 20 years and with many different businesses and payment scenarios. I've never had a problem with them.

Over 20 years ago, I did. PayPal had a problem with their system getting hacked and credit card info for thousands of users flittering out to the winds. At the time, they refused to reverse fraudulent charges and I was forced to get my credit card company to do so. PayPal sent me a nasty email or two and I closed my account.

Maybe they got better. But I got burned by the experience. They can collect their "fees" from other people. Ain't going to be me.
 

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 06:30:02 PM »
Maybe they got better. But I got burned by the experience.

They got better.

Part of this was the integration into ebay. There are all sorts of protections in place now.

Offline C.A. Huggins

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2017, 09:10:55 PM »
You're right about complaints regarding getting paid less than the promised rate. Over the last year or so, I've only been paid half of the 70 % royalty rate for selling a book at the $2.99 range.

That is pretty concerning. What is Pronoun's explanation?

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Offline Andrei

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2017, 08:24:03 AM »
some people complain payments don't seem to match promised royalty rate

You're right about complaints regarding getting paid less than the promised rate. Over the last year or so, I've only been paid half of the 70 % royalty rate for selling a book at the $2.99 range.

Wow, can you please elaborate?

1) Did you experience this issue for US sales or international sales?

2) Did you contact their support team and if so, what did they tell you?

I'm thinking about using Pronoun for my upcoming book, with their promised 70% royalty at the $0.99 level being the main selling point in my case. But if they promise 70% and don't deliver...

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2017, 08:43:51 AM »
Wow, can you please elaborate?

1) Did you experience this issue for US sales or international sales?

2) Did you contact their support team and if so, what did they tell you?

I'm thinking about using Pronoun for my upcoming book, with their promised 70% royalty at the $0.99 level being the main selling point in my case. But if they promise 70% and don't deliver...


I've winged off a request for clarification from Pronoun. I will let you know (or they will) what their response is.


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Offline aimeeeasterling

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2017, 09:49:29 AM »
I had a problem with incorrect payments from Pronoun too, specifically for my sales on Amazon Australia. They were basically paying me a penny or two per sale...which just didn't make sense.

So I contacted support and they've been working on it ever since. Even though the issue isn't ironed out yet, they dropped an extra $400 in my paypal account last month with an apology for the delay. So, yes, there are some issues. But if you stay on top of them I have confidence you'll get the money you earned eventually.

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Offline ibizwiz

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2017, 11:21:28 AM »
I couldn't get my old Google Play account to fire up again so I listed there via Pronoun, but I've been so appalled at Paypal's interface and "customer service" in the past month or two that I'm giving Google Play another go. It says something about Paypal if I'm prepared to spend time struggling with Google Partner Center, which itself is the work of the Devil.

Thanks for sharing -- I hope you get GPlay sorted to your satisfaction. A question, though: have you considered or tried StreetLib? And if so, what are the pros and cons in the specific case of getting new author/books into the G Play store?

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2017, 11:49:52 AM »
have you considered or tried StreetLib? And if so, what are the pros and cons in the specific case of getting new author/books into the G Play store?

I'm in googleplay on Streetlib and I'm not impressed. Reporting is haphazard and I'm having a barney with them over the fact I did a Bookbub on the 18 of last month and coincidentally since then zero reporting. When I challenged them they gave me all kinds of rubbish about their system only reported this and that, and I had to get really shirty with them before they actually looked into the problem. I've been waiting 2 days for an update, but not a dickie bird. They owe me money from May, but won't list anything. They don't date the transactions that are temporary and don't date the 'real' transactions either so you have no idea when you're going to get paid or how much. TBH it's why I'm moving everything to Pronoun.


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Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2017, 12:33:41 PM »
Good responses from Pronoun

Hi Tobias,

I hope you had a great weekend! Thanks for bringing this to our attention, and I'm so sorry for any confusion.

It sounds like some of these authors published their books before January 2017, which was when we announced our new royalty rates. Books originally distributed before this announcement are still under our previous terms, so authors will still see the old rates, like 35% Amazon royalties for books priced outside $2.99-$9.99.

Although this isn't reflected in our daily sales reporting for older books, we're honoring our improved terms for all Pronoun authors as of January 17 (the day we announced the new rates). We plan to move all books over to our new terms in the near future, and after the migration, authors will receive a one-time adjustment payment from Pronoun covering the applicable difference for all books published before January.

To be clear, all authors are eligible for our current royalty rates as of January 17. Books distributed under our old terms won't see this reflected in their sales reporting until we migrate them to our new terms, but will be compensated for the difference. Books distributed under our new terms already receive 70% royalties for US and Canadian sales of books priced $9.99 and below.

This article breaks down our current royalty rates across all retailers and countries, as well as our previous royalty rates.
http://support.pronoun.com/knowledge_base/topics/what-are-pronouns-royalty-rates
I hope this helps clear things up -- please let me know if anyone has any questions, and I'll be happy to help.

Best,
Elissa


Elissa Bernstein
Product Support Lead
Pronoun | publish@pronoun.com
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 12:36:13 PM by TobiasRoote »


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Offline Andrei

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2017, 12:53:30 PM »
Sounds fair, the message in question clarified everything for me, thanks Tobias!

I'm 99% sure I'll be giving them a go, will keep you guys posted.

Offline juliatheswede

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2017, 04:56:28 PM »
What's the problem with getting paid via PayPal? I use them all the time and have no problem. Does PayPal take a cut or what? If it hadn't been for Pronoun taking such a big cut from international sales, going all in with them would have been a no-brainer for me. Unfortunately, I sell too many books internationally.

Offline Andrei

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2017, 06:40:15 AM »
Alright, ended up signing up and uploading the ebook version of my new baby!

What I can say is that when it comes to the ease of use aspect, these guys nailed it. Excellent system, ridiculously easy to use.

For now, I've decided to make my book available on Amazon, BN, iBooks and Kobo. Submitted it on Saturday and it's now live on 3 out of 4 platforms, BN is the exception. So far, so good.

The main drawback is the fact that you won't be receiving real-time statistics, there will be a delay involved. If you aren't obsessed with stats, this won't be a big deal, however it is an inconvenience if for example you use lots of promo sites over a one-week period and want to track results properly.

Other than that, everything looks fine so far.

Offline ZsofiaMacho

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2017, 12:37:18 AM »
Hi,

I'm Zsofia from PublishDrive. While Pronoun is great, there are other options to consider (I see that you mentioned D2D.) We created a guide with the most popular aggregators so anyone who is interested in going wide can easily pick the one that is best for them. (There is no 'perfect' option as every book is different and requires a different strategy :)

KDPPublishDriveiBooksCreateSpaceKoboPronounDraft2Digital
Royalty35% or 70%10% cut70%35% – 70%70%0 % cut10% cut
File FormatsePub, mobi, HTML, doc, docxePubePub, iBooks AuthorPDFePub, PDFePub, mobiePub, doc, docx, RTF
ExclusivityExclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusive
Paymentsmonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthly
Reportsdailymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlydailydaily
Retail OutletsAmazonAmazon, iBooks, Kobo, GooglePlay, OverDrive, B&N, eSentraliBookstore2 distribution packages: Standard or ExpandedKobo store and other ebook storesAmazon, iBooks, B&N, Kobo, GooglePlayiBooks, B&N, Kobo, Scribd, 24symbols, Tolino, Inktera.

I hope this helps a bit.
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Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2017, 01:19:27 AM »
Hi,

I'm Zsofia from PublishDrive. While Pronoun is great, there are other options to consider (I see that you mentioned D2D.) We created a guide with the most popular aggregators so anyone who is interested in going wide can easily pick the one that is best for them. (There is no 'perfect' option as every book is different and requires a different strategy :)

I hope this helps a bit.

I'm sure it's unintentional, but you're not showing the full retail outlets in D2D. In the interests of fairness I think you should redress this by adding OVERDRIVE and PLAYSTER to your table.

;)


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Offline ZsofiaMacho

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2017, 01:23:20 AM »
I'm sure it's unintentional, but you're not showing the full retail outlets in D2D. In the interests of fairness I think you should redress this by adding OVERDRIVE and PLAYSTER to your table.

;)

I'm not showing the full retail outlets in PublishDrive either - we work with 400 stores :D I don't think the forum layout could handle it ;) But you're right, I should've out OverDrive in for D2D.
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Offline Andrei

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2017, 03:55:36 AM »
Can anyone share some details about just how delayed stats are over at Pronoun?

I know of at least one sale that took place on Sunday... it's now Tuesday and I'm not seeing anything.

I can live with a 24-hour delay but come on, it's 2017 and as of a certain point, too much is too much :)

I don't want to start seriously promoting the book until I'm sure I can rely on a tracking system that's at least somewhat predictable...

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2017, 04:07:21 AM »
Can anyone share some details about just how delayed stats are over at Pronoun?

I know of at least one sale that took place on Sunday... it's now Tuesday and I'm not seeing anything.

I can live with a 24-hour delay but come on, it's 2017 and as of a certain point, too much is too much :)

I don't want to start seriously promoting the book until I'm sure I can rely on a tracking system that's at least somewhat predictable...

I don't know if it's at all relevant, but everything seemed to slow down over the weekend, I think 9/11 memorials and the effect of the hurricanes might have slowed things down a tad. I've seen a massive drop in reporting across the board the last few days.


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Offline Andrei

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2017, 04:26:29 AM »
I don't know if it's at all relevant, but everything seemed to slow down over the weekend, I think 9/11 memorials and the effect of the hurricanes might have slowed things down a tad. I've seen a massive drop in reporting across the board the last few days.

Thanks a lot for the input Tobias, wouldn't have thought about that!

Isn't the reporting process for the most part automated though?

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2017, 04:33:04 AM »

Isn't the reporting process for the most part automated though?

It could be, but power cuts could have forced the companies (who probably run very large mirrored servers) to reduce their output until things got back to normal. Even automated processes often require someone to keep pressing the dead man's switch somewhere. :P If it's still an issue in a week, then we have a problem :D


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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2017, 07:48:11 AM »
Can anyone share some details about just how delayed stats are over at Pronoun?

I know of at least one sale that took place on Sunday... it's now Tuesday and I'm not seeing anything.

I can live with a 24-hour delay but come on, it's 2017 and as of a certain point, too much is too much :)

I don't want to start seriously promoting the book until I'm sure I can rely on a tracking system that's at least somewhat predictable...

72 hour or more delays as far as I can tell. In future, until they get better cooperation from their retailers, I'll be using them only for Google Play, which I can't access another way. Payment is laggy too. I have never been paid since I started in July, and July payments are scheduled to be issued Oct. 2. 
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Offline Andrei

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2017, 09:18:35 AM »
72 hour or more delays as far as I can tell. In future, until they get better cooperation from their retailers, I'll be using them only for Google Play, which I can't access another way. Payment is laggy too. I have never been paid since I started in July, and July payments are scheduled to be issued Oct. 2.

Wow, that's awful! 72 hours?!?

Offline Morgan Worth

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2017, 11:07:50 AM »
Does anyone know how long it takes a price change to go through Pronoun to Amazon? I just listed a box set with Pronoun and I'd like to get a 99 cent Bookbub, then raise the price while the ranking is good.
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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2017, 01:00:03 PM »
I received this morning (the 12th) by email a report on sales from the 10th. That's fine with me. I like Pronoun. I like their interface. I like their perks. I started by publishing one book with them to Amazon and Google Play. This morning, I shifted the rest of the outlets for that book over to them. I also plan in the future to add the rest of my books.


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Offline Augusta Blythe

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2017, 02:04:10 PM »
I'm trying to publish a book via Pronoun for the first time so I can do a long preorder on Amazon, but they won't let me upload a dummy file, even though I always upload dummy files to the 3 vendors I selected. It took them 24 hours to tell me I couldn't use the file. I expected to have links by now so I can add them to the back matter of a book that has a BookBub on Friday. Now I've uploaded an anemic draft instead of a dummy file and hit publish again, but I don't think Pronoun is going to be able to turn it around fast enough. Not impressed.   

Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2017, 09:52:50 PM »
I'm trying to publish a book via Pronoun for the first time so I can do a long preorder on Amazon, but they won't let me upload a dummy file, even though I always upload dummy files to the 3 vendors I selected. It took them 24 hours to tell me I couldn't use the file. I expected to have links by now so I can add them to the back matter of a book that has a BookBub on Friday. Now I've uploaded an anemic draft instead of a dummy file and hit publish again, but I don't think Pronoun is going to be able to turn it around fast enough. Not impressed.   

Don't you think you're being a little unfair? Pronoun have a system in place that stops you uploading a blank file, and you complain? They probably needed to manually verify before being able to tell you what you should have already surmised. In my experience it always takes from 3-10 days to get initial links into retail outlets. You should have planned better and given yourself more time to get all your files and links in the right place. I don't think it's Pronoun's fault.


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Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2017, 01:51:43 AM »
Hi,

I'm Zsofia from PublishDrive. While Pronoun is great, there are other options to consider (I see that you mentioned D2D.) We created a guide with the most popular aggregators so anyone who is interested in going wide can easily pick the one that is best for them. (There is no 'perfect' option as every book is different and requires a different strategy :)

KDPPublishDriveiBooksCreateSpaceKoboPronounDraft2Digital
Royalty35% or 70%10% cut70%35% – 70%70%0 % cut10% cut
File FormatsePub, mobi, HTML, doc, docxePubePub, iBooks AuthorPDFePub, PDFePub, mobiePub, doc, docx, RTF
ExclusivityExclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusiveNon-exclusive
Paymentsmonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthly
Reportsdailymonthlymonthlymonthlymonthlydailydaily
Retail OutletsAmazonAmazon, iBooks, Kobo, GooglePlay, OverDrive, B&N, eSentraliBookstore2 distribution packages: Standard or ExpandedKobo store and other ebook storesAmazon, iBooks, B&N, Kobo, GooglePlayiBooks, B&N, Kobo, Scribd, 24symbols, Tolino, Inktera.

I hope this helps a bit.


Hi! I like your chart, but I was wondering if there was a reason you left BN and Smash off of it? Also, you list publishing direct on Amazon thru KDP as being exclusive, but it's only exclusive if you enroll in the KU program

Offline Bob Stewart

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2017, 08:40:07 AM »
Does anyone know how long it takes a price change to go through Pronoun to Amazon? I just listed a box set with Pronoun and I'd like to get a 99 cent Bookbub, then raise the price while the ranking is good.

I changed a few last weekend and they went through in a matter of hours, not much longer than in KDP directly.

Offline Morgan Worth

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2017, 09:00:50 AM »
I changed a few last weekend and they went through in a matter of hours, not much longer than in KDP directly.

Thanks, Bob!
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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2017, 02:50:52 PM »

Hi! I like your chart, but I was wondering if there was a reason you left BN and Smash off of it? Also, you list publishing direct on Amazon thru KDP as being exclusive, but it's only exclusive if you enroll in the KU program

Hi, thank you for your comments, you are absolutely right! There is no reason for leaving them out other than lack of space. Working on a more thorough guide for the PublishDrive blog which will include them. (And will handle distributors and aggregators separately.)
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Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2017, 04:01:44 PM »
Hi, thank you for your comments, you are absolutely right! There is no reason for leaving them out other than lack of space. Working on a more thorough guide for the PublishDrive blog which will include them. (And will handle distributors and aggregators separately.)


Thanks! Would you mind linking that guide once it's up? I'm in KU at the moment but I know a lot of us are eagerly anticipating what the 15th is going to bring to make some decisions.

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #53 on: September 13, 2017, 10:18:19 PM »
Well, it's Thursday. Still no stats.

I'm sorry but I just can't see how someone can properly organize a launch week (promo sites, contest, FB/Amazon/AdWords/etc. ads and so on) with Pronoun. It's a marketing nightmare.

If your book is just "set it and forget it" then sure, you can live with this. But I assume a lot of people on KBoards are using Pronoun so as to receive 70% for $0.99 books. I'll go ahead and also assume they'll at least be stacking promos so as to maximize results with this $0.99 thingy. Maybe even paid ads. Without half-decent stats at your disposal... good luck with that :(

Offline Bob Stewart

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2017, 04:00:58 PM »
I've now had about 8 books in Pronoun for a week.

In regards to Amazon:

I uploaded the .mobi files Amazon had previously generated for the books and they took them as is.

I had to send an email about transferring reviews and recreating the series, but that was resolved in about a day.

Updates occur very quickly, both prices and things like categories, really not much longer than using KDP.

One big difference in choosing two categories, you seem to be picking real Amazon categories, and not like in KDP where the choices often don't seem to match categories in the store itself. Plus, you get in subcategories with keywords, etc, just like with KDP. If anything, I think my books are ultimately listed in more categories than they were in KDP.

The only negative to using Pronoun instead of KDP non-Select is that you can't use AMS ads.

The positive is across the board 70% payout and ability to make a book free whenever you want.

The non-Amazon channels:

These work about the same as D2D. Also, customer service is as responsive and as friendly as at D2D.

I would say that their interface, though easy to use, is a little inferior to D2D. I think they make heavy use of Javascript and that often is less dependable than simpler forms. For instance, the link to delist a book from a vendor doesn't show up on my books for some reason. 

Categories at the other vendors are also inferior to D2D. They send the same Amazon categories (or some derivative of them) to the other retailers. These may or may not match the retailers. So my books at Kobo through Pronoun are in just one or two categories. Through D2D, they were in three.

I think both Pronoun and D2D would be improved if they optionally let you choose vendor specific categories, if you wanted to go to the trouble.

Overall:
The reporting is slower, but that really isn't a big deal to me.

Offline ZsofiaMacho

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2017, 01:00:24 AM »

Thanks! Would you mind linking that guide once it's up? I'm in KU at the moment but I know a lot of us are eagerly anticipating what the 15th is going to bring to make some decisions.

Here we go: https://publishdrive.com/ebook-publishing-platforms/ For ease of use we decided to include only publishing platforms and leave stores out.
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Offline TobiasRoote

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2017, 07:06:15 AM »
A new issue with Pronoun represents a potential deal breaker for nearly all of us who are moving books from Amazon direct..

If you have sold any number of books then when Amazon allocate the Pronoun version a new ASIN and link the two versions together to merge the reviews etc., they DON'T merge the 'You have already purchased this book on the.........' warning.

I'm asking them to sort this out because if you have sold lots of these books, and your readers click on the new ASIN not realising the book is already in their library, they're going to get pretty annoyed with you as an author, then go for a refund with Amazon.  Either way not good PR for you. I will report back on whether they resolve this, or not. Seeing as the book that I moved to them has previously downloads and sales of 25,000 books, I'm going to revert back to KDP if it cannot be resolved.

Also, I'm waiting to see if it ties up the series because currently it doesn't show up in the banner of books on the author page either.


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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2017, 08:25:21 AM »
Interesting bud, Tobias.

I have not had issues with my passion projects going on Pronoun. I began uploading them at 99 cents after they amended the payout to be 70%. :p Customer service is very good.

My passion projects are shorts, books and novellas that I wouldn't otherwise spend a great deal of time promoting and making a backstop for.

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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2017, 08:31:24 AM »
A new issue with Pronoun represents a potential deal breaker for nearly all of us who are moving books from Amazon direct..

If you have sold any number of books then when Amazon allocate the Pronoun version a new ASIN and link the two versions together to merge the reviews etc., they DON'T merge the 'You have already purchased this book on the.........' warning.

I'm asking them to sort this out because if you have sold lots of these books, and your readers click on the new ASIN not realising the book is already in their library, they're going to get pretty annoyed with you as an author, then go for a refund with Amazon.  Either way not good PR for you. I will report back on whether they resolve this, or not. Seeing as the book that I moved to them has previously downloads and sales of 25,000 books, I'm going to revert back to KDP if it cannot be resolved.

Also, I'm waiting to see if it ties up the series because currently it doesn't show up in the banner of books on the author page either.

Why would you do that?

You just untick the Amazon option, enter the existing url, and hit enter.

There is no reason at all to double list on Amazon.


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Re: Pronoun, pros and cons, current experiences
« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2017, 10:51:40 AM »
Why would you do that?

You just untick the Amazon option, enter the existing url, and hit enter.

There is no reason at all to double list on Amazon.


I should have have explained in more detail.

I have a book at $2.99 on Amazon, it is showing on kobo.au as $3.49 which in Oz $$'s is cheaper than $2.99 US. They told me to drop my Amazon price, or raise kobo's. I decided that I didn't want to mess with my Au market which is being very kind and didn't want to go below $2.99 to satisfy the price-matching demand of amazon which would put me on 35% instead of 70% So, instead I ticked the box on Pronoun, unlisted my KDP book so it would automatically switch to the Pronoun book. It did, but then the 'already purchased' warning you get when you go to buy a book that you already have disappeared because it was a new ASIN. This isn't a clever move. Pronoun understand this and are now trying to resolve it with Amazon. If they can't do that, then I have to consider the reader and decide on accepting the risk of upsetting them and perpetual refunds, or revert back to KDP and take the hit on the royalty. I thought it would be important for others to know this and posted it. It's not about double listing which I'm not sure you can even do.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 11:05:47 AM by TobiasRoote »


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