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Wish Granted! Tips, Tools, and Templates to Write a Winning Grant
by Holly Rustick

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Kindle Edition published 2017-08-22
Bestseller ranking: 95983

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INCLUDES BONUS FREE E-DOWNLOADS: TEMPLATES FOR GRANT WRITING!

Grant writing shouldn’t feel like a trip to the dentist. Take the pain out of the process with this innovative and fun, yes fun, guide. Learn all the inside tips and tools of the grant-writing trade in this easy-to-read and upbeat book.
This book is definitely for you if:
•You break out in a cold sweat when your boss mentions the word ‘grant’.
•You’ve been tempted to throw your computer against the wall while writing a grant.
•You happily tell stakeholders there’s plenty of grants out there … but haven’t the faintest idea how to write and get one!
•You think you can send out a bog-standard letter to a bunch of organizations and get funded.
•Your eyes glaze over when you’re presented with grant writing jargon and acronyms.
•Your organization’s grant success A-game has r...

Author Topic: Promiscuous Heroines  (Read 5991 times)  

Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #125 on: September 13, 2017, 12:34:33 AM »
I thought polygamy was now illegal, in every state.

It is, technically. Kinda like speeding is. It's largely ignored or treated as a misdemeanor. Plus they get around it by 'legally' marrying the first spouse, then 'spiritually' marrying any consecutive spouses in a ceremony of some kind but never getting a license or submitting the ceremonial marriages to the state for recording.


And I'm not touching the morality of a person's right to do as they wish with their body.

Offline AisFor

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #126 on: September 13, 2017, 01:11:45 AM »
That's where it gets confusing when researching New Adult and RomCom lists. Most of the high-ranking titles feature a lot of fairly hardcore scenes that read more like erotica.

The heroines do have to be chaste, until they meet the one capable of awakening their sexuality, at which point they may agree to have a*** sex during their first encounter, in order to further preserve their virginity...kind of mind boggling.

Offline Doglover

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #127 on: September 13, 2017, 01:17:04 AM »
Who's we? Morals are personal beliefs about what's right and wrong. They vary person to person and they change over time. Do you personally think someone who engages in casual sex is wrong for doing so and that behavior is universally unacceptable? If not from religion, where exactly does this belief stem from? That isn't to say that someone might not care for casual sex. I don't, for example, but that preference developed out of experience, not moral superiority. In Love Sex > In Lust Sex > Casual Sex. But I don't judge someone who's preferences differ from mine if they aren't hurting anyone.

Lying and Cheating, I get. It in no way surprises me that cheating is a no-go in Romance. It turns me off to characters in all fiction. I was watching Glow the other night on Netflix and couldn't get past what one MC did to her close friend. I wanted to, I wanted to like this character, I wanted to cheer for her, but I just couldn't get there. But horny people taking care of business until they find someone they want to settle down with or not... I don't get why people care.
I think it's called self respect. Perhaps that's something we don't have any more either, like radiograms and only one tv channel - a thing of the past.


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Offline AisFor

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #128 on: September 13, 2017, 01:55:08 AM »
I think the idea someone can't have casual sex and respect themselves is incorrect and definitely a thing of the past. It's not the idea that's a problem, though. It's the practice of judging and shaming others based on that idea. I hope that practice eventually becomes a thing of the past, because as of now it isn't.

Well said.

Change is likely to come when women perceive themselves (and are depicted in fiction) as sexual beings, rather than passive recipients. I notice that women who haven't enjoyed sex themselves, and see it as a masculine preserve are more likely to equate chastity with morality.

Offline Usedtoposthere

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #129 on: September 13, 2017, 03:22:28 AM »
Clearly, we're seeing here that the answer to this question is, "It depends on your audience." Write for the audience that likes the way you portray cool/sexy/ideal human sexuality. My brilliant advice. I know it isn't true that in romance, heroines have to be "chaste" (a word I've actually never heard spoken or, really, read anywhere but in a book set in the past), and I suspect it isn't true that in UF, heroines have to get around.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #130 on: September 13, 2017, 07:30:43 AM »
One person's slut is another person's prude.

The idea that slut shaming is fair game is extremely chauvinist. This has nothing to do with morals if the sex is frequent with available eligible partners. It becomes moral when societal breaches occur (a married affair).

I won't slut-shame in my books. I don't believe in it.  >:(

 

Offline Paranormal Kitty

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #131 on: September 13, 2017, 08:13:42 AM »
What is having sex like a man vs. having sex like a woman (other than ridiculous sexism)?

That people have notions like that makes me happy -- but also worried -- that I flipped the script with my MCs. I guess the other side of this discussion is how readers may react to a MMC who is more cautious and emotional about sex? I'm kind of wondering if people may have a negative reaction to a woman who's been with dozens being paired with a guy who's only been with two.

I agree. It has nothing to do with religion either, or with a fear of STDs. We used to have something called morals; don't they have those any more?

Aside from religious beliefs, I can't figure out what morals have to do with how many sex partners a person has?

I think the idea someone can't have casual sex and respect themselves is incorrect and definitely a thing of the past. It's not the idea that's a problem, though. It's the practice of judging and shaming others based on that idea. I hope that practice eventually becomes a thing of the past, because as of now it isn't.

Totally agree.

Offline Becca Mills

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #132 on: September 13, 2017, 09:36:15 AM »
I think it's called self respect. Perhaps that's something we don't have any more either, like radiograms and only one tv channel - a thing of the past.

You lose respect for yourself when you know you've done something wrong. If you don't think casual sex is wrong, then engaging in it won't cause any loss of self-respect.

I think people often talk past one another when they try to discuss sexual morality because their moral foundations are radically different.

Offline Lorri Moulton

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #133 on: September 13, 2017, 10:04:36 AM »
Our main character has had some dalliances with partners, who are not really spouse material.  Then, they meet someone, who they are immediately attracted to and suddenly, all former lovers pale in comparison.  They resist the relationship (for 2/3 of the book) thinking it's too good to be true, but eventually decide this is true love and they end up happily ever after.

Now, why is there any difference if this main character is a man or woman?

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Offline Evenstar

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #134 on: September 13, 2017, 10:06:30 AM »

Overall: 7 lifetime sexual partners for men, 6.4 for women.

https://onlinedoctor.superdrug.com/whats-your-number/

That's what I'd expect to be reported. My girlfriends and I agreed (somewhere in our early-twenties) that 6 or 7 was respectable enough to confess to a new boyfriend. After that we lied, so the number never went up.

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 12:59:40 PM by Evenstar »

Offline Monique

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2017, 10:24:38 AM »
This is just in my personal experience, but I haven't known a truly promiscuous man or woman who wasn't using sex as a drug. Pardon the pun, but it was an attempt at filling an emotional hole that could never be filled. Beneath the veneer of devil may care, all were deeply unhappy. It wasn't empowering, for them at least. It was false power that left them always feeling hollow.

ymmv

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Offline Ava Glass

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2017, 10:58:15 AM »
Romance blog Smart b*tches Trashy Books published an interesting article on the systemic problem of slut-shaming in romance.

http://smartb*tchestrashybooks.com/2016/01/guest-rant-slut-shaming-in-romance/

(You'll have to manually remove the asterisk that the forum added.)

  • Don't big-up your heroines by putting down other women, especially for their sexual choices. No "puck bunnies" or "slamps."
  • Your characters can choose to not have sex for reasons that don't judge women who choose differently.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:01:13 AM by Ava Glass »

Offline Paranormal Kitty

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2017, 11:28:23 AM »
Romance blog Smart b*tches Trashy Books published an interesting article on the systemic problem of slut-shaming in romance.

http://smartb*tchestrashybooks.com/2016/01/guest-rant-slut-shaming-in-romance/

(You'll have to manually remove the asterisk that the forum added.)

  • Don't big-up your heroines by putting down other women, especially for their sexual choices. No "puck bunnies" or "slamps."
  • Your characters can choose to not have sex for reasons that don't judge women who choose differently.

This is a really good article.

Quote
The slut shaming in romance isn't an isolated incident when it is literally more common than non-white heroes and heroines in mainstream romance.

Is really messed up.

Offline StephenBrennan

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #138 on: September 13, 2017, 12:22:53 PM »
Might depend on the heroine's other qualities. I was musing about this recently when it looked like James Bond might become "Jane Bond."

The result in that case would be a semi-sociopathic woman who sleeps with every man she meets, usually right before they die.

Actually the biggest backlash against Jane Bond would probably be males who've been made to feel disposable by such a character. Followed by a subset of women who find nothing sympathetic about her.

Double standards are a funny thing to be sure.

Offline Paranormal Kitty

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2017, 12:52:26 PM »
I'm not sure we can automatically assume that reversing a usually male trope (like creating a Jane Bond) will cause a negative reaction. I basically reversed the very common trope where the womanizer falls in love, and my beta readers had no issue with it. The backlash with turning a well-established character into a different gender or race seems to be more that people were used to it being the way it was. A female character that is like James Bond would probably go over a lot better than one marketed under the same franchise.

Offline D. Zollicoffer

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #140 on: September 13, 2017, 01:10:36 PM »
This is just in my personal experience, but I haven't known a truly promiscuous man or woman who wasn't using sex as a drug. Pardon the pun, but it was an attempt at filling an emotional hole that could never be filled. Beneath the veneer of devil may care, all were deeply unhappy. It wasn't empowering, for them at least. It was false power that left them always feeling hollow.

ymmv
Same here. I'm sure that there are perfectly normal people out there who just love sex, but all the "promiscuous" people that I've known have been addicts. That's why I said earlier that if you're having sex with five partners in a week, then you need to have a serious conversation with yourself. It's totally fine if you can stop at any time and you aren't lying to your partners. Now as far as lifetime stats go, I wouldn't judge someone who's above the average. It's just a little concerning when you're juggling a few partners at once.

Offline ibizwiz

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #141 on: September 13, 2017, 01:15:48 PM »
A female character that is like James Bond would probably go over a lot better than one marketed under the same franchise.

Bingo, Miss Kitty! You are anticipating one of my featured younger fem MCs in a follow-on series to our flagship novel series. She'll emerge from the shadows ca April 2018. She's <<< REDACTED >>> and <<< REDACTED >>>.

Offline Modi Gliani

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #142 on: September 13, 2017, 02:20:39 PM »
Maybe someone has said it already, but there's big difference between a "heroine" and a "protagonist". There have been female promiscuous protagonists since the beginning of literature, and with good writers they usually make interesting characters. One that comes to mind is Joyce Carol Oates novel about Marilyn Monroe. But if you look at the classics, you will find dozens of examples. Then there is the question of what readers want? What many readers want is vicarious experience, and protagonists of many kinds provide such experience. Life on the edge of misery can be as interesting for readers as a happy life in a penthouse. In any case, the question has one answer for formula fiction and another answer for literary fiction, and different authors will likely have different opinions about such characters. Personally, I find women like Marilyn Monroe or any so-called Jezebel more interesting than the conforming women of popular romance fiction. More interesting as literary characters. But experience says living with a woman like that in the real world can be hell---as it's hell for an ordinary woman to live with a promiscuous man. The same for gay and lesbian couples.


Offline Usedtoposthere

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #143 on: September 13, 2017, 02:23:49 PM »
Some of romance, at least, does overlap what seems to often be the case in life. (I'm not saying "is" the case, because people are different, and hopefully one is always writing individuals, not averages.) I have a very popular book where heroine is being abstinent as part of a reboot of her life following a lifetime of bad choices around men, and hero becomes her abstinence partner. He tells her that he's had more meaningless sex than is good for any man (including a marriage full of his cheating), and he's ready to hold out for something more. Extremely popular hero.

I do think that my audience believes that people who sleep around a lot, especially women, aren't especially empowered by it. That's my life experience, as others have said, what I've seen. It isn't really great for many women's psyches. Men don't seem to be damaged by it, although if they can't ultimately form a lasting intimate bond, that's probably not great for them either. I'd argue there's some biology in those differences, but haven't read enough studies to have a strong opinion about the impact of nature vs. nurture.

In any case, I do write heroines who make the heroes wait for it and prove that they're offering something more than a night, because I write a lot of pro athletes and know something about those guys in real life. They usually marry somebody they had to work for, probably partly because that's their mindset--things that are worthwhile, you have to work for.

It's only bad, in real life, if you're lying to yourself about what you're looking for--if you're trying to hook up with that star athlete or that cute guy from the bar because you're looking for a love relationship (usually while telling yourself you're not). That's what I see a LOT in the young women I know who sleep around. They're generally pretty unhappy about their love lives and are looking for more, and they're self-sabotaging. That's also why I roll my eyes about all the romance books (usually NA-type erom) about the hero picking up the heroine, they have "one perfect night," and now he can't let her go.

Yeah. Probably not. You go home from the bar with that star, and he says, "Thanks, honey, here's twenty bucks for a cab," and goes off with the team for his next game. He's also probably married. He ain't your forever.

Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #144 on: September 13, 2017, 03:28:52 PM »
On having to work for it-
I was raised with that being presented in a humorous analogy that fit our surroundings somewhat. Hunting is very popular locally and as my friends and I started dating it was an older, wiser woman who put it like- Men love to hunt. They get up before the crack of dawn, load up all the expensive toys they bought for the purpose of the hunt and drive for hours to their favorite hunting grounds. They often douse themselves in the awful smelling urine or musk of the animal they're hunting for, and they revel in the hunt, whether they come home triumphant or with stories of their almost triumph.
"Now tell me this," she'd say. "Do you think they'd bother to do any of that if deer were twelve deep standing around on every street corner? Would they be proudly showing off their 'catch' if it was a deer any of the guys could've had just by backing a truck up on that corner and having one of them tie itself to the hood of the truck? Or do you think that they'd start 'hunting' a more elusive animal, instead?"

On promiscuity always being a search to fill a void-
That same woman, who married at 17, her husband being her only partner until after she buried him 40+ years of marriage later from cancer, is very much making up for lost time at the moment. Her responsibilities have been met, her kids are fully grown and have families of their own, and she's is having a grand ole time filling a hole, let me tell you. Somehow I don't think morality or self respect have anything to do with her activities, neither is she feeling hollow or trying to numb anything. Though she did just recently say that once she's done having fun and wants to tie herself to a partner again long-term, she 'reckons she'll have to tone down the fun first.'
What's been very interesting to watch tho is the judgement she receives, not from men, but from other women. Holy cow, can we eviscerate one of our own.

On the self-respect thing-
Most judgements, I've found, have way more to say about the judger than the judgee.
If you know that you could not have respect for yourself if you slept around, that's fine. If you don't respect someone that you see is sleeping around, that's also fine. We often learn about ourselves in contrast and comparison to someone else, but just cause you don't respect her, or you know you couldn't respect yourself if you were her, doesn't mean that she doesn't respect herself. Your judging her is about you.

Offline Paranormal Kitty

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #145 on: September 13, 2017, 03:42:58 PM »
On having to work for it-
I was raised with that being presented in a humorous analogy that fit our surroundings somewhat. Hunting is very popular locally and as my friends and I started dating it was an older, wiser woman who put it like- Men love to hunt. They get up before the crack of dawn, load up all the expensive toys they bought for the purpose of the hunt and drive for hours to their favorite hunting grounds. They often douse themselves in the awful smelling urine or musk of the animal they're hunting for, and they revel in the hunt, whether they come home triumphant or with stories of their almost triumph.
"Now tell me this," she'd say. "Do you think they'd bother to do any of that if deer were twelve deep standing around on every street corner? Would they be proudly showing off their 'catch' if it was a deer any of the guys could've had just by backing a truck up on that corner and having one of them tie itself to the hood of the truck? Or do you think that they'd start 'hunting' a more elusive animal, instead?"

This reminds me too much of some of the gross analogies they told us in high school sex abstinence ed. Plus I know as many women who hunt as men.

Offline Ava Glass

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #146 on: September 13, 2017, 09:38:52 PM »

Quote
The slut shaming in romance isn't an isolated incident when it is literally more common than non-white heroes and heroines in mainstream romance.

Is really messed up.

Indeed it is.

Offline K.B.

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #147 on: September 13, 2017, 10:14:11 PM »
I agree. It has nothing to do with religion either, or with a fear of STDs. We used to have something called morals; don't they have those any more?

FFS!

I'm out of here now.

Paranormal, I hope your questions were answered in this thread.

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Offline Alix Nichols

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #148 on: September 14, 2017, 03:53:58 AM »
I find that promiscuous heroines are less of a no-go in romance than mean or b*tchy heroines... as long as they are relatable. The context is important, too. One of my female leads, Chloe (The Devil's Own Chloe), is promiscuous, but she has good reasons. Which, in reality, are misguided, and the reader knows it. But what matters is that she believes they are good.

I never had any backlash.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 03:55:29 AM by Alix Nichols »
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Offline EC Sheedy

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Re: Promiscuous Heroines
« Reply #149 on: September 14, 2017, 09:07:05 AM »
I find that promiscuous heroines are less of a no-go in romance than mean or b*tchy heroines... as long as they are relatable. The context is important, too. One of my female leads, Chloe (The Devil's Own Chloe), is promiscuous, but she has good reasons. Which, in reality, are misguided, and the reader knows it. But what matters is that she believes they are good.

I never had any backlash.

And so it goes in fiction; it's all about the *why*. Get the why right, and everything else falls into place. :)
 

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