Kindle Forum banner

Craft Thread

6K views 150 replies 24 participants last post by  Sapphire 
#1 ·
Hey, ok so here we are. I am asking very nicely, be adults here. Some of us would really enjoy talking about the ideas and CRAFT of writing, without it getting nasty or shut down by mods. So please, if you don't feel like you can be reasoning and rational, keeping your personal issues to one side, stop here and read something else so we can enjoy the conversation?? You can create a separate post to argue anything else...

In addition, I ask that anyone who DOES feel like they are being attacked simply bite it back and not answer. Please, again, lets just be adults. There are not only other Authors, but our FANS and READERS, who come here, show them we can play nice and that we are worth keeping around.
 
#103 ·
paranormal_kitty said:
So, do you any of you guys get "out there" stylistically -- like how Cormac McCarthy eschews the quotation marks, for example? Or do you keep it pretty close to accepted standards and conventions?
"Out there" is a moving target as "out" gets closer to "in" with usage.

In one story, I put the unidentified killer in his own 3rd person, present tense, all italics, no quotation marks, his POV, chapters, each one being about a page or two long. Once he was identified and apprehended, he joined the rest of the story as a regular character in a conventional MC (not him), 1st person, past tense POV.

To me it felt like pulling him out of a dream and into reality. He went from being a ghostly-like spectre to just another guy, serial killer and all that.

My inspiration for that model was Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber. Before he was identified, he was this enigmatic man in a hood and shades. After he was caught, he became in the public eye what he really was, just another loser sociopath genius with strange ideas and deadly practices.
 
#104 ·
JaclynDolamore said:
I've done it every which way as far as rewriting and crafting stories. When I was in traditional publishing I really studied craft and I rewrote ALL my books from the ground up multiple times. I was up to over twenty drafts on one of them, which by the way, is too many. At some point, you lose track of what the heck you fell in love with about the story in the first place. Also, anyone who says traditional editors don't edit anymore? Oof, not my editors. I had one that about killed me and I learned a LOT from that process long term, but I HATE the book that came out of it. I can't even look at it now. I try to pretend it's not even in my catalog. I used to carefully consider everything, from every line to every theme to why every character was there. It was a fantastic education and I learned a lot.

However, in the end I've realized what my readers most love from me, and what *I* love most from myself: emotions, character relationships. A lot of this is best, for me, when it's spontaneous. Of all the books I've written, the faster I wrote the book, the more I love the book and the stronger the characters feel to me. I don't think too much about theme or allegory consciously, although I do consider character growth arcs and I pull from real history a lot. I like looking back after the fact and seeing what came out. If you're reasonably well versed in the craft of storytelling, and understand that words should have a purpose and characters should not just be rambling around looking at their own faces in mirrors and eating elaborate meals (okay, scratch that, I LOVE elaborate meals), and you surround yourself with thoughtful work and learn things, meaning will always come through.

Some people say outlining or talking about the story in advance kills the story for them. I can outline and I can talk your ear off about it. But for me, overthinking/overediting = death. Now I'll do one rewriting pass at most.

Of course, other methods work for different people and genre also plays a part. I'm glad I've experimented with so many different ways of developing a story, and I might change tactics again in the future!
Is the "over-edited" book one of the ones in your signature, Jaclyn?
 
#106 ·
paranormal_kitty said:
So, do you any of you guys get "out there" stylistically -- like how Cormac McCarthy eschews the quotation marks, for example? Or do you keep it pretty close to accepted standards and conventions?
I'm not a good enough writer yet to be able to do that. Authors the caliber of McCarthy can get away with it because, in my opinion, you don't get to their level without knowing the rules inside-outside, backward-forward, and when you know the rules so well that they might as well be etched on your soul, you can bend or break them with impunity.

I'm still trying to understand the rules themselves and I think any attempt I'd make at bending or breaking them would just look like a rank amateur flouting the rules of writing not as a stylistic choice, but more because I didn't know any better.

This might come back to voice. Someone could read my writing and likely determine right away they're not dealing with a good or great storyteller, so their willingness to follow me on flights of fancy like eschewing quotation marks is likely to be pretty low and once they'd encountered that "choice" (or "error" in their minds) they'd probably be tempted to throw the book at the wall and then I've likely lost a reader for life.

For now I have to rely on a strong premise and "good enough" execution to pull a reader through to the end of a story and hope against hope they'll want to read something else I've written. The Cormac McCarthys of the world can do pretty much anything they want and you hang right there with them because their prose is that magical.
 
#108 ·
Pandorra said:
Do we have any non-linear writers here?

I've been wondering how hard that is.. I can write a partial scene and go back to it later to pad either side but do you write chapters, pages, scenes (or all three)? and then just put them together or what? How do you structure them?
I try my best to write in sequence, but if I get stuck on a scene or blocked I will skip ahead (sometimes far ahead) to write a future scene, which is often one of the scenes I'm most excited to write. This will usually get the spark back for me. I do this 5 or 6 times a book, and I find I'm doing it less on my current project.

I also go back when the book is done to fill in all those <little more here> or <she gets angry> notes I add in. Sometimes those can be whole scenes.
 
#109 ·
Pandorra said:
Do we have any non-linear writers here?
I've always been a linear writer - beginning to end, one scene at a time. A friend says I have a plodding linear mind, which he doesn't mean as an insult just a description since he has the same.

However, a couple of books ago I had an idea for an upcoming scene of a kind that's always difficult for me. I went ahead and wrote it, went back to my place and wrote up to that point. It did mean quite a bit of revision to make the scene written ahead blend into what came before just right, but it worked. It's not something I plan to do a lot of, but I'd do it again in similar circumstances. If I made a habit of it, knowing myself, what would happen is I'd write all the scenes of the type I find easiest and skip anything that might take more than usual effort. Which might stop me from ever finishing.
 
#110 ·
jaehaerys said:
I'm not a good enough writer yet to be able to do that. Authors the caliber of McCarthy can get away with it because, in my opinion, you don't get to their level without knowing the rules inside-outside, backward-forward, and when you know the rules so well that they might as well be etched on your soul, you can bend or break them with impunity.

I'm still trying to understand the rules themselves and I think any attempt I'd make at bending or breaking them would just look like a rank amateur flouting the rules of writing not as a stylistic choice, but more because I didn't know any better.
Yeah, I think it does take a lot of practice to get to that point. I tried to do something funky by eschewing the dialogue tags and using only action beats, but I had some people read it and they said it didn't read smoothly, so I varied it up. The only "rule" I really break is not italicizing Spanish and other foreign words, but that's more where things are trending (and it makes sense) than being adventurous. I read several authors who do the same and none of them seem to get complaints about it in the reviews. I think the writers are ahead of the style guides on this one.

Pandorra said:
Do we have any non-linear writers here?
I usually do the ending first and save the beginning/prologue for last. I outline in (messy) detail, so I can pretty much pick up whatever scene I'm inspired about to write at the moment.
 
#113 ·
RBN said:
When I'm "gathering string," I write partial scenes from anywhere in the story as they occur to me. When it's time to do the actual writing, I gather all the pieces, flesh out my outline, and start with chapter one. Some of the pieces ultimately don't have a place in the story, but they're not wasted because they provide insight into character or simply what doesn't work in the story.
This is a really cool method. I'd like to try that on my next project - I often have several key scenes in my head early, even if I don't fully know how they connect. I outline them, but never write them until its 'time'. Thanks for the idea!
 
#115 ·
Pandorra said:
Do we have any non-linear writers here?

I've been wondering how hard that is.. I can write a partial scene and go back to it later to pad either side but do you write chapters, pages, scenes (or all three)? and then just put them together or what? How do you structure them?
It's hard. If I could write the story in a straight line from beginning to end, I definitely would, but I just can't seem to do it. My method, such as it is, is to write the tent-pole scenes at they come to me, and then go back and try to fill in the scenes in between. It makes a lot more work, because when I write the missing scenes in, the emotions and thoughts that carry through those don't always match up with what I have in the tent-pole scenes, and then I have to go back and change stuff to make everything fit.
 
#117 ·
RBN said:
When I'm "gathering string," I write partial scenes from anywhere in the story as they occur to me. When it's time to do the actual writing, I gather all the pieces, flesh out my outline, and start with chapter one. Some of the pieces ultimately don't have a place in the story, but they're not wasted because they provide insight into character or simply what doesn't work in the story.
Oooh, I like that.
 
#122 ·
What part of a story do you love/hate writing the most and why?

Mine is dialog tags and transporting my MC from A to B .. just because it seems to take away writing time on the main scenes and where I stumble the most because I hate reusing tags, usually I put in something generic and come back later in the hard edit so I can space them out better. And dialog is my favorite part. I just like the emotion that flows between the characters.. that and the scenes always seem to come together very well for me.
 
#123 ·
Pandorra said:
What part of a story do you love/hate writing the most and why?

The sex scenes. It's so hard to describe everything well without getting clinical or gross. Vampire sex is easier since there's biting and blood drinking to include.

Pandorra said:
Mine is dialog tags and transporting my MC from A to B .. just because it seems to take away writing time on the main scenes and where I stumble the most because I hate reusing tags, usually I put in something generic and come back later in the hard edit so I can space them out better. And dialog is my favorite part. I just like the emotion that flows between the characters.. that and the scenes always seem to come together very well for me.
I usually just do a scene break to skip over boring scenes of going from one place to another, unless there's something significant about the shady taxi driver or they have car sex or something. I found it good advice for dialogue to stick with "said" and action beats, but I have the occasional "whispered" or "she told him" or whatever.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top