Author Topic: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books  (Read 7657 times)  

Offline Dpock

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2017, 09:34:15 AM »
the coming Amazon Apocalypse

In the early 00s, before and during the first internet bubble and collapse, there were a number of internet companies like Themestream, Webseed, Vines, a former version of Epinions and a few others I forget, all meant as platforms for writers. Writers were paid five to ten cents per page view for their articles, stories, and opinions, which was quite a good deal. Forums sprouted (like this one) offering the same sort of comradery and advice. The writers came, and things were great, and then the scammers followed. Things quickly went south, and for many of the same reasons we're discussing in this thread.

As was the case with those companies I mentioned above, Amazon is too reliant on the self-correcting myths supposedly governing an open marketplace. KDP needs an intervention or it will be completely taken over by wolves. It's pretty much there already in several of the genres.

On the upside, I think true writers will survive. The wolves will eventually destroy the mechanisms that seemingly work brilliantly for them now. One of those mechanisms seems to be KU. It's fostering all sorts of mischief (stuffing, phony reviews, bots, etc.).


Offline Seneca42

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2017, 09:35:14 AM »
Unfortunately, KU isn't going anywhere. We can lament all we want but the subscription model is here to stay.

I'm really not so sure about this. The more I learn about the "best sellers" in KU, the more I realize there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here.

So much so that I really question whether KU is even profitable. If it were a gold mine other vendors would have considered doing it. Even Kobo has barely dipped a toe in (a trial sub model in the NL, that's literally next to nothing).

Remove the botters and remove the rank bump for borrow, and one has to wonder how radically our view of KU would change. 

And how's this for irony? I'm starting to think that the KU books that drive the program and which are truly read a lot, are actually the traditional publishers (who don't get paid per page read). That, and romance, I think make up most of KU activity.

But let's watch the KENP rate. If KU is anywhere near as successful as we all seem to think, that rate should be going up, not down.

Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2017, 09:53:18 AM »

As was the case with those companies I mentioned above, Amazon is too reliant on the self-correcting myths supposedly governing an open marketplace. KDP needs an intervention or it will be completely taken over by wolves. It's pretty much there already in several of the genres.

On the upside, I think true writers will survive. The wolves will eventually destroy the mechanisms that seemingly work brilliantly for them now. One of those mechanisms seems to be KU. It's fostering all sorts of mischief (stuffing, phony reviews, bots, etc.).


I think the blockchain and improvements in AI could be the solutions that companies like Amazon are waiting on to stave off the wolves. Mind you, Amazon might be among the wolves being staved off when that revolution occurs.





Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2017, 10:02:05 AM »
Sorry, quick interruption, but what is blockchain?
ETA- nm, googled it.
For anyone else as tech-inept as myself:
https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-is-blockchain-technology/
Still don't understand a damn thing about it, but I can now smile and nod when people say it.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 10:10:55 AM by Going Incognito »

Offline DrewMcGunn

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2017, 10:42:22 AM »
Spent a few minutes reporting more than a dozen of these books.  Every one of them are either gobbledygook of random Russian sentences, random English sentences or a ripoff of a Frank Baum book, the Tin Woodsman of Oz.  They litter the new releases of my chosen genre.  Had a bit of time at lunch and thought I would lob a few TOS violation reports.

I have a template I use and just paste it in the report field.  Saves time.
Here's what my template says,
This book appears to violate Amazon's TOS.  This author may have put the same content into up to 13 books, possibly only changing the title.
It may also violate the TOS because of one of the following:
It is either a foreign language book, an English translation using an auto translator like Google Translate or a violation of copyright.
Given that there is no cover/default cover and that there are likely only KU page reads resulting in the book being ranked, a reasonable conclusion is that the publisher is attempting game Amazon's KU payout system by use of a clickbot/farm.
Please review and if you find the book in violation, please remove this book as well as all of the other TOS violations under this "author's" name.

Anyway, I readily acknowledge I'm probably just playing the role of the little Dutch boy with my finger in the dam, while water's pouring through a gazillion holes, but it gives me the satisfaction of delusion.  ::)

Offline Seneca42

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2017, 10:48:24 AM »
I've been dabbling at it for the past five years and kicking myself because I didn't jump in with both feet and stay at it. At this point in my life (I'm old) I have no desire to crank out a book a month, promote constantly, write a chatty newsletter or blog (I'm also a curmudgeon), and everything else that seems to be required to make a buck in the business.

The marketing trap is an easy one to fall into. I've found myself with one foot in it for the past six months and it really detracts from the enjoyment of writing; and it makes getting into the writing headspace much harder. Thankfully, I'm done seriously marketing for a while now and can just return to writing. Writing energizes me, marketing drains me. 

I genuinely have no idea how people write a book every two weeks or even in a month (while running promos and newsletters and AMS ads and FB ads and blogs and blah blah blah - wink wink, that's why ghostwriters exist I do suspect). Or how they do that for 12 months in a row. Technically, I guess I could do that, but the book would be a horrible, sickly shadow of what it otherwise would be if I took my time. And after 6 months of nothing but writing morning until night at a breakneck pace, I'd want someone to just put a plastic bag over my head and end my misery.




Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2017, 10:57:40 AM »
Blockchain is a distributed, decentralized system, so no one person or entity is in control and every transaction across the network is visible to everyone and has its own signature that is traceable.


Everyone on the network is 'permissioned' just by virtue of their presence on the network, there's no hiding or tampering, as no transaction can be permitted across the network without a consensus.


So, no one person or entity can alter or add to the blockchain without their alteration or addition being permanently recorded and visible to everyone on the network. This includes those purporting themselves to be in positions of authority, including system administrators, etc.


The implications this has for transactions of every kind are huge and likewise this will change the way authors reach consumers.


EXAMPLE:

An ebook on the blockchain would be traceable from its very inception, directly traceable to its creator, and all information regarding its content, how it was marketed etc would be kept on an un-editable ledger available to all consumers across the network.


Offline AlexaKang

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2017, 01:00:51 PM »
I'm really not so sure about this. The more I learn about the "best sellers" in KU, the more I realize there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on here.

So much so that I really question whether KU is even profitable. If it were a gold mine other vendors would have considered doing it. Even Kobo has barely dipped a toe in (a trial sub model in the NL, that's literally next to nothing).


Amazon doesn't care if KU is not profitable. They don't even really care if their entire book business sector is not profitable. Selling books is a loss leader for them to get people to give them their email and credit card info, and then they can promote and sell more profitable items like TVs, dishwashers, and whatever else with much higher profit margins. That's why they never are serious about doing anything to clean house for authors. Amazon is happy. Readers/customers are happy. The only ones not happy are authors and they don't really care because every day there are new writers with big dreams uploading more books, and they've practically got a monopoly on the market.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 01:03:26 PM by AlexaKang »

Online Rosie A.

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2017, 01:58:37 PM »
This thread saddens me. I love to write so I will forever do it and put my work up for sale. Sometimes though, it seems like without marketing there's no hope of getting read. Eh. Well, I do feel like a publishing failure a lot of times because I've workedhard on my craft but [crap]tier written books sell better than mine because marketing. C'est la vie, mon ami.

Rose Andrews | Rose Historicals

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2017, 02:12:45 PM »
Unfortunately, KU isn't going anywhere. We can lament all we want but the subscription model is here to stay. It's what the entire entertainment culture is migrating to so I think it's pointless to hope that Amazon will one day change course. 


While you are correct about the move to sub models, I would counter that most sub models aren't seeing the results they had hoped for. Everyone is moving to sub now. The new Star Trek Discovery is a sub model and as a lifelong Star Trek lover, I won't be subbing for it. I'm tired of "subs." I'm burned out on them. Canceled cable TV back in 2007. Saved myself over $9600 in sub fees over these ten years. That's a lot of money.

Comes a point where people are fed up with yet a new sub. I have a feeling subs are going to be a flash in the pan. If the recent results I've looked at with disappointing sub income is any indication, I think it's going to happen fast - because it's already happening.

I think KU is here to stay only if they implement option 2 of your post. I just don't see it surviving any other way. Scammers will go to great lengths for "free money."
 

Offline AlexaKang

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2017, 02:37:54 PM »
While you are correct about the move to sub models, I would counter that most sub models aren't seeing the results they had hoped for. Everyone is moving to sub now. The new Star Trek Discovery is a sub model and as a lifelong Star Trek lover, I won't be subbing for it. I'm tired of "subs." I'm burned out on them. Canceled cable TV back in 2007. Saved myself over $9600 in sub fees over these ten years. That's a lot of money.

Comes a point where people are fed up with yet a new sub. I have a feeling subs are going to be a flash in the pan. If the recent results I've looked at with disappointing sub income is any indication, I think it's going to happen fast - because it's already happening.

I think KU is here to stay only if they implement option 2 of your post. I just don't see it surviving any other way. Scammers will go to great lengths for "free money."

That is true about CBS and I too am another lifelong ST fan and I won't be subscribing which makes me sad. But the difference there is CBS is late to the game, and they haven't proven to provide good content yet so people are not willing to subscribe for only the ST series. (Plus it's debatable whether the teaser episode was good enough to hook people to pay up.)

It is true that cable subscriptions are dying but again, it's becaause of problems forcing people to pay for content they don't want. People are happy to pay for Netflix and Hulu though because of the On-Demand. So it's not that people won't sub, but that they want to sub to what works for them.

I can see people will un-sub to KU if the content becomes undesirable (eg KU 1 when the entire KU store became shorts, serials, and short eroticas -- to clarify, I'm not saying that these aren't undesirable books, what I mean is that readers not looking for these won't see a reason to sub). So it is possible that when the entire store is infested with botted books that are unreadable, readers will leave and Amazon will then finally have to do something.

I'm not sure that will happen soon though, if at all because for the whole KU store to become a mess like that, non-botting authors will have to leave en masse. Unlike KU 1 where it was clear that authors writing novel-length books saw that it made clear sense to not be in KU, KU 2 (or KU 2.5) is more dubious as we're paid by page reads. So no matter what else happens, theoretically you still will be paid your fair share as long as readers read your book. Secondly, Amazon now has big TP books like HP in there, as well as their own imprints. So Amazon is not as reliant on indie authors. They can stock KU with enough TP and Amazon imprint books so the entire store can have enough books for KU readers regardless.

I just don't know what would be the tipping point. But I still don't think the end result would be Amazon terminating KU. Too many readers are indoctrinated and I think it'll be a PR nightmare if they end it.

Offline AlexaKang

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2017, 02:41:22 PM »
This thread saddens me. I love to write so I will forever do it and put my work up for sale. Sometimes though, it seems like without marketing there's no hope of getting read. Eh. Well, I do feel like a publishing failure a lot of times because I've workedhard on my craft but [crap]tier written books sell better than mine because marketing. C'est la vie, mon ami.

Rosie, you really shouldn't feel like a failure because some "books" that are Russian mumble jumble are botting selling better!  :)

I think our answer has to be more than "just write the next book" or marketing. SP changes very fast. What will work is for someone to figure out the next big thing to get visibility, and the next big thing after that, and the next big thing after that. Unfortunately I've never been one of those visionaries who can see the next big thing. But I'm sure somebody will.

Offline Laran Mithras

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2017, 03:48:10 PM »
Secondly, Amazon now has big TP books like HP in there, as well as their own imprints. So Amazon is not as reliant on indie authors. They can stock KU with enough TP and Amazon imprint books so the entire store can have enough books for KU readers regardless.

I just don't know what would be the tipping point. But I still don't think the end result would be Amazon terminating KU. Too many readers are indoctrinated and I think it'll be a PR nightmare if they end it.

That might be an option we haven't considered: shutting KU to indies. Only TP books would be included. A way to curate without paying for it.
 

Offline MonkeyScribe

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2017, 04:38:21 AM »
I am totally against KU. However, for a new author (you're putting your new series out) I absolutely recommend KU.

So you're not totally against KU. You are in favor of it in some circumstances. Which is the most common attitude in these parts. The "which circumstances" part changes from person to person, of course.

Offline sela

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #89 on: October 07, 2017, 08:50:42 AM »
I think it's not just the saturation of market. At the end of the day, the only books that are selling are the ones ranking below 200K. So it doesn't matter if there are 1 mil, 3 mil, or 5 mil+ books. We know that a book is only moving if it's consistently 200K or below. So at the mini-mini-minimum, you got to be in the top 200K. (Not talking about hitting it big or making a living. I'm just saying what keeps a book going.) So in that sense, I don't think that saturation is all that matters. The competition is always among the top 200k books.

What's changed since I got in 2 years ago:

1. Free books free books everywhere. So a free promo is nothing special anymore.

2. Promo sites lost effectiveness. It's still recommended that you use them for launch because you got to get the book off and start word of mouth marketing, but more likely than not, you won't make your $$ back.

3. Amazon tweaked its algo so your spike from promo, no matter how well you planned it, won't give you a tail.

4. Readers have too many books on their devices so even if they downloaded your free or 99c book, they might not read your book till later (if ever), so you don't get nearly as much of a tail.

5. I don't do free or perma free but Amazon hides the free books and the scammers have mucked it all up anyway.

6. Instafreebie was a great thing and also a bad thing. Readers have way too many newsletters being sent to them and they stopped signing up organically. They're too busy unsubbing.

7. Newsletter swaps are not always done carefully for readers' benefit or tailored to their interests. They're done by authors being short-sighted and wanted to get in on the latest NL swap. The NLs thus look more and more like bad SPAMS, further causing readers to unsub and not sign up in the first place.

8. FB ads have gotten very expensive than from 2-3 years ago and now a sinkhole

9. AMS ads -- great initially but not anymore and still all voodoo as far as I can see

10. Amazon now has it own imprint to promote

11. Bookbub now cares more about promoting trad pub books and trad pub backlists. Their interest also directly conflict with Amazon KU. Indie authors are caught in the middle.

These are just some of my observations. I'm sure there are more. Everything has converged to make the market very very tough to crack.

Great list. I agree with everything. We are in a maturing market where Amazon holds most of the cards.

I made a [deleted] lot of money in 2015 when Facebook ads first took off (THANKS MARK DAWSON!) and when Bookbub had a longer tail. Then Facebook ads became saturated, Facebook changed its own algorithms for visibility, and Amazon responded to the market by starting KU and damping down the algorithms to minimize the tail from promos. UGH

It means it's all the harder to maintain. I haven't maintained what I earned in 2015/2016. I'm still six figures but not as high as 2015, which was my golden year with multiple Bookbubs, permafree series starters that had a great sell through, and huge ROI from Facebook ads.

That was then. This is now.

Lamenting the past won't help me. What will help me is understanding the market TODAY and trying to figure out how to work with current realities.

To me, that means trying to make the best of both worlds. I have some books wide when I am eligible for a Bookbub. When the tail dies, I put them into KU and that seems to prevent a steep decline for three months or six months. I have a medium sized mailing list and use that for launches and ARCs. I have an advertising budget. I am publishing faster than I used to. I'm writing a series specifically for KU targeting those binge readers and publishing fast.

Despite all that, I am at half the revenues I was at in 2015 doing less. Things are less effective simply because the market is saturated.

This doesn't mean people can't kill it with the right book and the right combination of marketing and volume. That's obvious when you look at some of the biggies in KU or wide. Money can still be made and big money at that -- really big or even just a comfortable living. But there are no guarantees and the competition for that top 200,000 book rank is fierce. For the top 100? Astronomical. It can be done. My recent Bookbub put my book in the top 100 in the Kindle store and top 10 of my categories. But that tail is really short now compared to two years ago.

Bookbub is still a great ROI -- fantastic -- but it isn't as good in my experience.

It's a grind, like any entrepreneurial business. And like in any entrepreneurial business, only those willing to grind away will succeed.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 08:53:10 AM by sela »

Offline Seneca42

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2017, 09:23:57 AM »
Money can still be made and big money at that -- really big or even just a comfortable living. But there are no guarantees and the competition for that top 200,000 book rank is fierce. For the top 100? Astronomical.

Bookbub is still a great ROI -- fantastic -- but it isn't as good in my experience.

Problem is we really don't know what people are making because of KU. On the direct side, a sale is a sale. It's really 3rd grade math to figure out what they are probably making based on their rank. But with KU bots, it's literally impossible, and with incentivized downloading (where no page reads actually generate revenue), it's a total black hole. I think a lot of top KU authors don't make nearly as much as people generally believe they do.

There are KU authors here, sounds like you are one of them, who have a mix of wide and KU. And when I look at their zon profile (not yours I don't know your books) and their kobo profiles, there's sometimes a massive disconnect. Like their zon book has hundreds of reviews, but their kobo has hardly any. [edit: should probably clarify. The books they have in KU have massive reviews. The books they have wide, have hardly any in comparison; but will still exhibit the counter-trend of having more on zon than on kobo; a trend other authors don't exhibit.]

Sure, some will say "well, no duh, they sell more books on amazon.". But I've found that kobo readers star a book way more than amazon readers. Like my kobo books have more ratings than they do on amazon, despite having sold 10 times as many copies on amazon. I've noticed the exact same patter with other authors who are like me (ie. selling, but not selling six figures)... they have more kobo ratings than zon ratings (yet, they are probably selling way more books on amazon). 

Yet the big boys don't seem to experience that phenomena. I personally think it's because when you strip out the KU model (and all the shenanigans that go with it) you see what the actual readership base is.  And I think for some authors there's a very healthy artificial growth of things like rank and reviews on zon.

On the bookbub thing... I think bub and zon are kind of in a little tug of war. Zon probably sees bub now as net-net being detrimental to it given they are favoring wide. And bub probably sees the danger of zon owning the market and so are trying to do their part to slow that down a bit.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 09:35:25 AM by Seneca42 »

Online Rosie A.

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2017, 09:26:28 AM »
Why does it always have to be about money money money? I see numbers on here I'd be so very grateful to have and people still say it's not enough.

Rose Andrews | Rose Historicals

Offline sela

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2017, 09:37:07 AM »
Why does it always have to be about money money money? I see numbers on here I'd be so very grateful to have and people still say it's not enough.

In business, it's usually about money simply because we have to pay bills. And do things like feed our children and ourselves. The reality of this business is that nothing is certain so you have to try to earn more than you need so that in the years when you earn less you have some leeway, an emergency fund, something to fall back on.

I am a single mother with two sons who are dependent on me. That means I pay all the bills. All of them. No help from my ex because I make more than him so it's all on me. In fact, I've been paying my ex for a year because I earn more than him and we have IP issues in our divorce. So, money is very important to me. That means I have to think of this like a business. I have to be concerned about what works and what doesn't work to earn me money.

When I write, I write what I think will please my audience and earn me money. I still try to write what matters to me because my readers will feel it if I don't. But I also decide what to write based on my audience -- existing and potential.

I'm a business person as well as an "artist". I put on my "business" hat when I'm planning my production schedule and books, and I put on my "artist" hat when I write those books.

Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2017, 09:57:06 AM »
Great list. I agree with everything. We are in a maturing market where Amazon holds most of the cards.

I made a [deleted] lot of money in 2015 when Facebook ads first took off (THANKS MARK DAWSON!) and when Bookbub had a longer tail. Then Facebook ads became saturated, Facebook changed its own algorithms for visibility, and Amazon responded to the market by starting KU and damping down the algorithms to minimize the tail from promos. UGH

It means it's all the harder to maintain. I haven't maintained what I earned in 2015/2016. I'm still six figures but not as high as 2015, which was my golden year with multiple Bookbubs, permafree series starters that had a great sell through, and huge ROI from Facebook ads.

That was then. This is now.

Lamenting the past won't help me. What will help me is understanding the market TODAY and trying to figure out how to work with current realities.

To me, that means trying to make the best of both worlds. I have some books wide when I am eligible for a Bookbub. When the tail dies, I put them into KU and that seems to prevent a steep decline for three months or six months. I have a medium sized mailing list and use that for launches and ARCs. I have an advertising budget. I am publishing faster than I used to. I'm writing a series specifically for KU targeting those binge readers and publishing fast.

Despite all that, I am at half the revenues I was at in 2015 doing less. Things are less effective simply because the market is saturated.

This doesn't mean people can't kill it with the right book and the right combination of marketing and volume. That's obvious when you look at some of the biggies in KU or wide. Money can still be made and big money at that -- really big or even just a comfortable living. But there are no guarantees and the competition for that top 200,000 book rank is fierce. For the top 100? Astronomical. It can be done. My recent Bookbub put my book in the top 100 in the Kindle store and top 10 of my categories. But that tail is really short now compared to two years ago.

Bookbub is still a great ROI -- fantastic -- but it isn't as good in my experience.

It's a grind, like any entrepreneurial business. And like in any entrepreneurial business, only those willing to grind away will succeed.


Reality meet face.  :(  Great post, Sela, as per usual.


Online Rosie A.

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2017, 10:03:30 AM »
I realize writing books is a business. No need to get offended. I have bills to pay, too. It was just a side comment from something I've observed on these forums, not necessarily from something you said Sela. I happen to think greed plays into all the scamming going on.

So yeah...just my 2 cents.

Rose Andrews | Rose Historicals

Offline Bookread

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2017, 10:04:58 AM »
That's pretty bad. I hope you reported it.

Offline Anarchist

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2017, 10:32:32 AM »
Why does it always have to be about money money money? I see numbers on here I'd be so very grateful to have and people still say it's not enough.

I'd guess that for each KB member who doesn't care about money, there are 10 (maybe even 100) for whom money is the main motivation to publish.

Also, people's monetary goals spring from their experience. The author who makes $500 a month dreams of making $5,000 a month. The author who makes $5,000 a month dreams of making $25,000 a month. And so on.

Most people want more than they have, even if they profess otherwise. It's human nature.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2017, 10:40:14 AM »
I'd guess that for each KB member who doesn't care about money, there are 10 (maybe even 100) for whom money is the main motivation to publish.

Also, people's monetary goals spring from their experience. The author who makes $500 a month dreams of making $5,000 a month. The author who makes $5,000 a month dreams of making $25,000 a month. And so on.

Most people want more than they have, even if they profess otherwise. It's human nature.


Absolutely, this. I'd be lying if I'd said I didn't care about earning money from my writing. Don't get me wrong, I love live to write, but I am looking to make writing fiction a self-sustaining career.


Offline Anarchist

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2017, 10:57:55 AM »
Absolutely, this. I'd be lying if I'd said I didn't care about earning money from my writing. Don't get me wrong, I love live to write, but I am looking to make writing fiction a self-sustaining career.

And once you're making a comfortable, full-time income for your locale (e.g. Little Rock, AK vs. NYC, NY), you'll probably want to bump that income to the next level.

I'd guess that lots of folks would like to make what I'm making. Meanwhile, I want to make what Amanda's making. And I won't speak for Amanda, but maybe she wants Bella money. And maybe Bella wants Patterson money.

The goalposts keep moving.

Greed definitely plays a role, but in a good way. It spurs us to keep producing products our respective audiences want.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison

"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu

Offline Dpock

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Re: Almost makes me appreciate the KU Scammers who stuff real books
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2017, 11:07:58 AM »


Greed definitely plays a role, but in a good way. It spurs us to keep producing products our respective audiences want.

Not in a good way, no. Greed won't make you a better writer. In fact, the evidence points the other way. There's a lot of less than terrific writing crowding the Top 100 lists. For the most part, they reflect marketing, not writing skills.