mblart

Author Topic: A New AMS Thread  (Read 62742 times)  

Offline MelanieCellier

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 625
  • Gender: Female
  • Australia
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #425 on: January 13, 2018, 03:31:08 PM »
From what I've read, a 3D cover is acceptable for SP ads but not PDI ads because these are shown on kindles and 3D ads don't look right on kindles.

That makes sense. Thanks!

Melanie Cellier | Website | Facebook

Offline LilyBLily

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2191
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #426 on: January 13, 2018, 07:56:30 PM »
Does this coincide with times when more people would be shopping on Amazon? If so, it could be because you're underbidding in your category and only during heavy traffic times do those who are bidding more than you run out of budget resulting in your ads being displayed.

But--but--how can that be when my bids are higher than the click price? For example, I have one good keyword that's nearly 20 cents higher. Are you saying that if I raised my bid price by 50 cents--or even a dollar--I'd get sales all day long instead of mostly at night? I've always assumed my audience was working women who bought books in their leisure hours.

Guess I could try raising my bids and see what happens.

Also, I thought these ads are not scalable and throwing more money at them does not produce more visibility or sales. You're suggesting that upping the daily budget doesn't help but upping the keyword bids does? Hmm...




Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #427 on: January 14, 2018, 06:44:50 AM »
But--but--how can that be when my bids are higher than the click price? For example, I have one good keyword that's nearly 20 cents higher. Are you saying that if I raised my bid price by 50 cents--or even a dollar--I'd get sales all day long instead of mostly at night? I've always assumed my audience was working women who bought books in their leisure hours.

Guess I could try raising my bids and see what happens.

Also, I thought these ads are not scalable and throwing more money at them does not produce more visibility or sales. You're suggesting that upping the daily budget doesn't help but upping the keyword bids does? Hmm...

It's worth a try. Your bids are always going to be higher than your click price (at least right now--one of the other threads said something about an option that might change that) or else your ad wouldn't display. But it's possible that there's a tier of bidding and ad display above where you're bidding right now.

Over the last two months I've had four, maybe more, different romance ads that maxed out by 1 PM New York time (sometimes earlier, but that's when Amazon sends the first you're out of budget notice to me). This is on low budgets of $5-$10 a day. So that says that there are romance readers looking to buy earlier in the day U.S. time.

What I've found is that having a budget of $50 a day doesn't do much. In that sense the ads aren't scalable. And really high bids don't always do much either. I have a few that I put high ($1.50 or so) and they didn't spur that ad to burn through its budget. But if you're at 45 cents right now? Try to go up a bit.

For the heavy hitters wanting to spend hundreds or thousands a day on a single book, AMS doesn't do that as far as I've been able to see. The most I was able to get an ad to spend was about $45 a day and that not consistently. (But that was for a book ranked 10K or so. If someone is ranking better, they might manage to spend more.)


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline LilyBLily

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2191
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #428 on: January 14, 2018, 07:01:14 AM »
I put my top 5 keywords on two titles up by about 20 cents each. One is for a $5.99 title that is not in KU, so there's plenty of bid leeway. The other is a $2.99 title that's in KU, where a full read only earns me a dollar (short book). So it has less leeway, although as a first in series it could make it up in series read throughs. Should be an interesting experiment.

Offline Tizzy

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #429 on: January 14, 2018, 08:27:06 AM »
What I've found is that having a budget of $50 a day doesn't do much. In that sense the ads aren't scalable. And really high bids don't always do much either. I have a few that I put high ($1.50 or so) and they didn't spur that ad to burn through its budget. But if you're at 45 cents right now? Try to go up a bit.

Gonna try this, since my highest atm is $0.45 indeed and my ACPC is $0.2 for that KW. Daily limit on my ad is $4, so it's not like I'm gonna break the bank :P

Offline Tizzy

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 248
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #430 on: January 14, 2018, 11:46:38 AM »
Gonna try this, since my highest atm is $0.45 indeed and my ACPC is $0.2 for that KW. Daily limit on my ad is $4, so it's not like I'm gonna break the bank :P

Raised bid to $0.6 on main keywords. I'm now appearing on the first part of the bottom carousel for my chosen author/books. If I get a good enough sell-through upping it to put me on the first carousel might be a good idea.

Edit: Typo had me write "not" instead of "now," which casually changed the whole meaning of my post, duh. Gonna have to hire an editor for my forum posts so they can catch these :P
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 12:08:08 PM by Tizzy »

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #431 on: January 14, 2018, 11:52:38 AM »
Hope it works guys. It's always worth experimenting, especially if you can do so without spending too much. I've had to adjust how I approach my ads over time because the system is so dynamic.


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline HilaryM

  • Status: Madeleine L'Engle
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #432 on: January 15, 2018, 11:06:46 AM »
Having only recently jumped on board with sponsored ads, I'm finding it a crazy ride. Where's the logic? For example, in exactly the same period one book generated 97k impressions and 266 clicks while another only 9k and 26! Or this, out of the blue, a keyword hits 213 impressions, 1 click, 1 sale! It's like gambling - not that I indulge very often, I hasten to add - but do I raise my bid on those keywords doing well to see if they generate a really healthy number of sales? Or will it be Murphy's Law, and the moment I touch it everything will turn to custard and all I end up with is a large bill at the end of the month! I've never hit my budget, a measly $5 per day, but the thrill of seeing a few more sales and a jump in the sales rankings is becoming dangerously attractive!

Hilary Murray | Website | Facebook

Offline notjohn

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1110
    • View Profile
    • Notjohn's Self-Publishing Guide
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #433 on: January 15, 2018, 11:37:39 AM »
I've clicked through this thread searching for the keyword paperback, but without much joy.

I have a paperback I need to promote, but I find my current Sponsored Product ad mentions only the Kindle edition. Will it show other editions if I switch to Product Display? And I've only ever used Keywords. What does (Interest) do that keywords do not?
Notjohn's Guide to E-Book & Print Formatting: http://viewbook.at/notjohn

The blog: http://notjohnkdp.blogspot.com

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #434 on: January 15, 2018, 11:49:10 AM »
I've clicked through this thread searching for the keyword paperback, but without much joy.

I have a paperback I need to promote, but I find my current Sponsored Product ad mentions only the Kindle edition. Will it show other editions if I switch to Product Display? And I've only ever used Keywords. What does (Interest) do that keywords do not?

I pretty much exclusively use Sponsored Product ads. For one of my non-fiction titles AMS is the only advertising I've ever done on it and about 2/3 of my sales are in paperback for that title. That ad right now is showing $2,000 in estimated sales. So, however the magic works, when you run an SP (or Product Display) ad on your ebook, it leads to paperback sales if a paperback is available and that's the preferred format for that reader.

I personally think Sponsored Products are the better choice for non-fiction because those are the ad type that show when someone does a general search on Amazon. Others have had good success running PD ads on non-fiction titles, too. And the two ads don't seem to interfere with one another, so you could try both at once and see which one performs better.

If you target an ad by interest that's more like putting a book in a category than going after specific authors/titles. It's much simpler to set up, but you don't have granular control to turn off underperforming keywords.


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Online Jena H

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 6678
  • North Carolina
  • Desperate character
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #435 on: January 15, 2018, 12:01:05 PM »
I've clicked through this thread searching for the keyword paperback, but without much joy.

I have a paperback I need to promote, but I find my current Sponsored Product ad mentions only the Kindle edition. Will it show other editions if I switch to Product Display? And I've only ever used Keywords. What does (Interest) do that keywords do not?

As I mentioned somewhere, either on this thread or the other AMS thread, one of my SP ads ends with "also available in paperback."  when someone clicks on the ad, it takes them to the book page, and Paperback is one of the options easily visible.

ETA:  The ad works, as my paperback sales increased dramatically since I began running it.  Not to blockbuster proportions, obviously, but better than they had been.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 12:15:14 PM by Jena H »
Jena

Offline rikatz

  • Status: Madeleine L'Engle
  • **
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #436 on: January 19, 2018, 06:07:15 PM »
I have been using AMS ads since around July, with variable success. One thing that I've been confused about: many people have multiple SP ads going for the same book, but what distinguishes these ads? I have put together two excel spread sheets, one for my science fiction and one for my mystery novels. Each has about 900 keywords. Multiple ads with the same keywords, even with different ad copy, seem to cannibalize each other. One might run but the other will not. Furthermore, it has been recommended that when one ad dies, we should start another, but will a copy of the exact same ad be treated as a new ad, or just the same dead ad? Will a new ad with different ad copy but the same keywords be treated as a new ad? As of now, I've had a lot of ads give short runs of a few days to two weeks, with 20 to 50 thousand impressions per day. Once an ad dies, what do I replace it with?


Robert I. Katz | website | blog

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #437 on: January 19, 2018, 06:32:18 PM »
Different people approach the ads differently. I run one sponsored product ad per book at a time because I think that SP ads interfere with one another. That works differently with Product Display ads which you can run at the same time and also can run when running a SP ad without an issue. I also have found that my best performing ads are my longest-running ads. I occasionally stop an ad and start a new one, but 9 times out of 10 I've ended up going back to the prior ad for that book. There are various techniques for reviving an old ad. Sometimes pausing the ad for a few days will do it. Sometimes pruning out underperforming keywords does it. Sometimes changing bids does it. And sometimes you have to do an outside promo to get a book momentum for the ad to kick in again.


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline Bohemienne

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Washington, DC
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #438 on: January 20, 2018, 08:47:45 AM »
AMS newbie herejust finished reading Cassies excellent book and got my first ad accepted. A quick question though: the dashboard says campaign data can take up to 3 days to populate. Does thatll mean itll be 3 days before I start seeing my data (but then itll be more or less current after that) or does it mean the data will ALWAYS be presented with about a 3-day delay?

Lindsay Smith | Website | Twitter

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #439 on: January 20, 2018, 08:56:59 AM »
AMS newbie herejust finished reading Cassies excellent book and got my first ad accepted. A quick question though: the dashboard says campaign data can take up to 3 days to populate. Does thatll mean itll be 3 days before I start seeing my data (but then itll be more or less current after that) or does it mean the data will ALWAYS be presented with about a 3-day delay?

Glad you liked the book and hope your ad is a great success.

Usually what I see is that the impressions and clicks will show up same day but that your estimated sales number won't reflect sales that occurred because of the ad for up to three days. So keep an eye on your KDP dashboard and CreateSpace (if you have a paperback) to see if you're getting sales from the ad. Eventually they'll show on the AMS dashboard, but not at the same time as your clicks/impressions. (And, of course, for any books in KU, you'll never see anything on the dashboard that reflects KU borrows so you have to watch your book's rank and then see if you're getting page reads.)


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #440 on: January 20, 2018, 08:59:55 AM »
BTW, Phoenix just posted this in another thread so wanted to share it here, too. This is what I use to track approximately how many borrows I'm getting from an ad. (I look at rank, subtract known number of sales for that day, and use that to guesstimate how many borrows must be making up the difference.)



8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline Bohemienne

  • Status: Dr. Seuss
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Gender: Female
  • Washington, DC
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #441 on: January 21, 2018, 04:06:44 AM »
Thanks so much, Cassie! My data did finally load in and does seem to be more or less real time now (minus sales, but I can cross reference those easily enough on my KDP dash).

Next questionI know in Cassies book she mentioned not having much luck with multiple ads for the same title. However, I feel like I could pretty evenly segment my potential audiences by certain author groupseg, Author As fans would like the villain romance aspect of my book, Author Bs would like the lush fantasy royalty aspect, etc. Is it worth it to split these out into separate blurbs that emphasize those separate aspects for better targeting (though maybe still with some overlap)? Or in a smaller genre is that overlap going to happen naturally enough that I may just end up competing with myself?

Lindsay Smith | Website | Twitter

Online Jena H

  • Status: Edgar Allan Poe
  • *******
  • Posts: 6678
  • North Carolina
  • Desperate character
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #442 on: January 21, 2018, 01:32:15 PM »
Lesson learned!  Every few days I check my ad campaign and maybe tweak a keyword bid up or down, depending.  When I checked today, I noticed my "spend" had gone up more than I expected, compared to the estimated sales staying relatively the same.  Turns out I inadvertently put one bid at $20, rather than the $0.20 I intended.   :o    :o    :o

Needless to say, I switched it back to my intended bid and double-checked all others.  From now on I'll sort by bid price to ensure there are no additional similar mistakes.
Jena

Online Dpock

  • Status: Arthur Conan Doyle
  • ****
  • Posts: 681
  • Gender: Male
  • North Idaho
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #443 on: January 21, 2018, 01:54:37 PM »
BTW, Phoenix just posted this in another thread so wanted to share it here, too. This is what I use to track approximately how many borrows I'm getting from an ad. (I look at rank, subtract known number of sales for that day, and use that to guesstimate how many borrows must be making up the difference.)



I have a book that hovers around 8000 based on recorded sales of about 7 daily with varying KU pages. According to the chart, a holding rank of 8000 requires 16 sales a day, so I could assume I'm getting 9 borrows a day?


Offline LilyBLily

  • Status: Arthur C Clarke
  • *****
  • Posts: 2191
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #444 on: January 21, 2018, 02:08:44 PM »
I've given the test a week, and I think the results are in: Twenty-cent higher keyword bids are not producing sales earlier in the day on my books. They're producing more sales, and I'm spending more on the ads, but the time frame when the sales happen remains the same.

So...either my audience is, as I've suspected, working women with families, women who only buy books in the evening and at night; or I'm still not bidding high enough to get good ad placement early in the day. I've just kicked up my most successful keyword on one book another 20 cents. I've just lowered one that isn't producing well by 20 cents. We'll see what another week brings.

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #445 on: January 22, 2018, 07:29:54 AM »
I have a book that hovers around 8000 based on recorded sales of about 7 daily with varying KU pages. According to the chart, a holding rank of 8000 requires 16 sales a day, so I could assume I'm getting 9 borrows a day?

That's how I've been interpreting that chart.


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #446 on: January 22, 2018, 07:33:12 AM »
Thanks so much, Cassie! My data did finally load in and does seem to be more or less real time now (minus sales, but I can cross reference those easily enough on my KDP dash).

Next questionI know in Cassies book she mentioned not having much luck with multiple ads for the same title. However, I feel like I could pretty evenly segment my potential audiences by certain author groupseg, Author As fans would like the villain romance aspect of my book, Author Bs would like the lush fantasy royalty aspect, etc. Is it worth it to split these out into separate blurbs that emphasize those separate aspects for better targeting (though maybe still with some overlap)? Or in a smaller genre is that overlap going to happen naturally enough that I may just end up competing with myself?

What seems to happen with Sponsored Product ads is that if you run more than one on the same book only one of the ads really runs and the other just sort of dies. But it's been six months since I tried that, so you could always run both and see if that's still happening.

A couple other ways you could do what you're talking about here:

- You could create two Sponsored Product ads and run one part of the day, pause it, and run the other the other part of the day
- You could try the first ad, see how it does, and if it doesn't do well try the second ad
- You could run Product Display ads at the same time. Those seem to not have the same issue as SP ads. But sometimes they don't run and sometimes they run way too hot without corresponding sales.


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline Cassie Leigh

  • Status: Scheherazade
  • *****
  • Posts: 1830
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #447 on: January 22, 2018, 07:33:50 AM »
I've given the test a week, and I think the results are in: Twenty-cent higher keyword bids are not producing sales earlier in the day on my books. They're producing more sales, and I'm spending more on the ads, but the time frame when the sales happen remains the same.

So...either my audience is, as I've suspected, working women with families, women who only buy books in the evening and at night; or I'm still not bidding high enough to get good ad placement early in the day. I've just kicked up my most successful keyword on one book another 20 cents. I've just lowered one that isn't producing well by 20 cents. We'll see what another week brings.


Interesting.


8 Pen Names. Genres: Non-fiction, Speculative Fiction, Romance.
Blog | Video Courses | Quick & Dirty Guide to AMS

Offline DrewMcGunn

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 131
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #448 on: January 22, 2018, 08:29:40 AM »
I have a book that hovers around 8000 based on recorded sales of about 7 daily with varying KU pages. According to the chart, a holding rank of 8000 requires 16 sales a day, so I could assume I'm getting 9 borrows a day?
Depending how your tolerance for data, you can take it a step further.

I use the Chrome Bookreport add-on, and I download the data from it daily and add it to a tracking sheet.
It tells me how many KU reads daily and I have added a field to the spreadsheet that calculates an estimated number of "read throughs" for KU.
I add the actual Sales count and the estimated number of read throughs together and use that as my daily "sales"
It's not perfect. As I understand it, Amazon treats each download to KU as a "sale" for the purpose of ranking. But that number is opaque, and unknown to us, so I use the data provided to estimate, an admittedly, lowball number of KU downloads.
As an example. This morning my first book is ranked around 14,500. KDP reflected 8 sales yesterday and 1871 KNEP pages read. My book is 287 KNEP. So, I count that as an additional 6.5 books. I'll round that down, and say I had 14 "sales" yesterday.
For my Phoenix's chart gives me a slightly lower rank than 14 sales would explain, but I don't know how many people have actually downloaded the book to KU in the last 24 hours. It could be that fewer people downloaded it in the last 24 hours than have been reading it. Because of Amazon's opacity, much of what each of us do to analyze data is at best an imperfect estimation.

Drew McGunn

Offline gilesxbecker

  • Status: Lewis Carroll
  • **
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: A New AMS Thread
« Reply #449 on: January 22, 2018, 09:08:48 AM »
BTW, Phoenix just posted this in another thread so wanted to share it here, too. This is what I use to track approximately how many borrows I'm getting from an ad. (I look at rank, subtract known number of sales for that day, and use that to guesstimate how many borrows must be making up the difference.)


  That is an extremely useful chart. Thanks for posting it.
Good advice on this thread, thanks to all for sharing. I am going to try a Product Display ad later today or tomorrow for my second in the series and attach it to other books and see how that works. At present it is targeted to 'interest' and I am not seeing it anywhere. It's like it disappeared into outer space. Since I got these new covers I am also going to try another Promo Stacker (same book different cover) and see if I can boost it before I start ads on the second book. This is like playing the slots! Addictive!

Also I am thinking that the majority of readers must be older people, younger people with kids and holding down two jobs don't have time to read it seems. Personal experience here.

dystopian sounds grim but actually fun abounds
Giles Becker | Giles Becker