Author Topic: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in  (Read 4853 times)  

Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 12:46:18 AM »
Plus how many even remember double confirming when theyre in the spam mood anyway? Theyve slept since then.

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 01:31:54 AM »
The bit that bothers me is that the sign up thank you email won't be shown.  Does this mean the welcome email after it won't be shown? That's where my links to my free books live, so do I need to change them.

I get so many new subs who, instead of clicking the confirmation link, send me an email saying 'yes, add me to the list' that I think I'll give it a go. If it causes trouble, I'll change. But, I intend to download all my lists before that happens.


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Offline dgaughran

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 01:52:43 AM »
lol someone at MailChimp forgot to update the help pages:

Quote
Why double opt-in?

Double-opt requires new subscribers to confirm their signup, so you know they want to receive emails from you. Double opt-in lists have better subscriber engagement levels over time. This means more opens and clicks, and fewer bounces and unsubscribes. Double opt-in also safeguards your account against malicious spambots and scammers.
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Offline Mylius Fox

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2017, 05:31:41 AM »
lol someone at MailChimp forgot to update the help pages:

On that note, I couldn't find where I should switch it back to double opt-in... although now I'm on the fence whether I should. :D

Offline dgaughran

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2017, 05:39:21 AM »
On that note, I couldn't find where I should switch it back to double opt-in... although now I'm on the fence whether I should. :D

Yeah, I feel like if single opt in is going to become the norm now, whatever we think about that, then if you stay with double opt in you might just lose (even more) people during the process.
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Offline amdonehere

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 06:45:52 AM »
But beware that MC is VERY strict about the 10% Unsub rule. I have an author friend who got screwed many times because of this and finally moved to Mailerlite. She really tried to comply after getting lists from X-promos. She tried segmented her lists to emails to 100 recipients each, and still when there were more than 10 unsubs, MC penalized her. I don't recall exactly what happened but I think the first segment that got 10 unsubs, she got a warning. Then when another segment got 10+ unsubs, MC eliminated that segment and told her she had to contact those subscribers by another way of emailing (like Yahoo), and ask them to re-sub again.

I'm not a tech expert and I'm actually very baffled on what to do about my own set up right now. I have a welcome email that includes a link to a landing page for all sort of goodies set at part of the automation sequence after double opt-in. If I select single opt-in, will subscribers still be able to get my welcome email?

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2017, 07:08:05 AM »
I use a hybrid approach that leverages a reader magnet.

Step 1: someone signs up

Step 2: he receives an email that contains a link to the promised reader magnet.

Step 3: if he clicks the link, he's in. If he doesn't click the link, he receives no other emails from me.

This approach streamlines the traditional double opt-in process (sign up ---> confirmation email ---> and then, the email with the link to the reader magnet).


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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2017, 07:34:11 AM »
But beware that MC is VERY strict about the 10% Unsub rule. I have an author friend who got screwed many times because of this and finally moved to Mailerlite. She really tried to comply after getting lists from X-promos. She tried segmented her lists to emails to 100 recipients each, and still when there were more than 10 unsubs, MC penalized her. I don't recall exactly what happened but I think the first segment that got 10 unsubs, she got a warning. Then when another segment got 10+ unsubs, MC eliminated that segment and told her she had to contact those subscribers by another way of emailing (like Yahoo), and ask them to re-sub again.

I'm not a tech expert and I'm actually very baffled on what to do about my own set up right now. I have a welcome email that includes a link to a landing page for all sort of goodies set at part of the automation sequence after double opt-in. If I select single opt-in, will subscribers still be able to get my welcome email?
That's just what's worrying me.


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Offline Bob Stewart

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2017, 08:07:15 AM »
I use a hybrid approach that leverages a reader magnet.

Step 1: someone signs up

Step 2: he receives an email that contains a link to the promised reader magnet.

Step 3: if he clicks the link, he's in. If he doesn't click the link, he receives no other emails from me.

This approach streamlines the traditional double opt-in process (sign up ---> confirmation email ---> and then, the email with the link to the reader magnet).

Anarchist,

How does that work functionally? Does the URL for the magnet use a redirect?  Or does just loading the magnet initiates a background task?

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2017, 08:16:45 AM »
Anarchist,

How does that work functionally? Does the URL for the magnet use a redirect?  Or does just loading the magnet initiates a background task?

The link to the magnet is a redirect. It goes through ConvertKit's servers, auto-confirming the opt-in, before sending the visitor to a download page on my site.
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Offline Mylius Fox

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2017, 09:27:46 AM »
The link to the magnet is a redirect. It goes through ConvertKit's servers, auto-confirming the opt-in, before sending the visitor to a download page on my site.

Sharp, now all I need is a reader magnet and something to sell-through. :D

Offline Gregg Bell

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2017, 01:31:52 PM »
I have a welcome email that includes a link to a landing page for all sort of goodies set at part of the automation sequence after double opt-in. If I select single opt-in, will subscribers still be able to get my welcome email?

I don't see why the welcome email wouldn't go out with single opt-in. It's just based on people joining your list. It doesn't matter if they join via single opt-in or double opt-in. Like the "trigger" says: 'it will go out (whenever you have it set to) after subscribers join your list.'

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Offline Bill Hiatt

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2017, 01:53:10 PM »
I have to agree. All that double opt-in really does is reduce your sign-ups by 30%. Look at the unconfirmed subs; 30%+ never click the confirmation email.
I have to ask--are the people who don't click on the confirmation email likely to be your highest quality subscribers? I'm assuming these aren't all cases in which someone doesn't get the email.

Everything I've signed up for recently has been double opt-in. I understand when mail providers might like single, if, as others have pointed out, that's a way they can make more money.

I've had two experiences with single opt-in environments, and in both cases, they were flooded with bot-generated subscriptions. Both were websites, but is there any reason to think a mailing list would be any different? Obviously, it is sometimes, or some of you wouldn't have had good experiences with it, but I'm not understanding why.


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Offline Nicholas Erik

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2017, 02:35:17 PM »
I have to ask--are the people who don't click on the confirmation email likely to be your highest quality subscribers? I'm assuming these aren't all cases in which someone doesn't get the email.

Everything I've signed up for recently has been double opt-in. I understand when mail providers might like single, if, as others have pointed out, that's a way they can make more money.

I've had two experiences with single opt-in environments, and in both cases, they were flooded with bot-generated subscriptions. Both were websites, but is there any reason to think a mailing list would be any different? Obviously, it is sometimes, or some of you wouldn't have had good experiences with it, but I'm not understanding why.

I understand these concerns, but I think they are more internet myth than reality.

I don't think this is some great sort of Machiavellian move on Mailchimp's part to generate additional revenue. I think they're making the switch because the web is becoming more and more dominated by mobile, and traditional double opt-in really doesn't work in that environment. Secondly, the increase in cost of running a list with more subscribers is generally nominal in comparison to the value those additional subscribers generate, so I wouldn't be concerned about higher costs anyway (and if that is a concern, switch to Mailerlite, which is very inexpensive).

I've never really bought the "not your best subscribers" argument. First, most of the new people subscribing to your newsletter will be marginally interested or semi-fans - not huge fans. They might've read a book or a story, and want to check out more. The purpose of the list is to help convert these people into your best subscribers/true fans, not necessarily gather them right off the bat. Secondly, people receive 50+ emails a day, on the low end. Your confirmation link can easily just get buried in the inbox maelstrom, even if the person is interested. It's really easy to miss one email. If someone doesn't open one email, that doesn't mean they're not interested; but double opt-in only gives you one shot. If someone doesn't open/click ten emails, they're almost certainly not interested. And I have systems in place to regularly clean my list, so these people don't get emails they don't want, and I don't have to pay for them.

I have zero bots signing up for my list, even on the occasions when I was spending $100+ a day on Facebook. It's a non-issue.

Obviously, everyone can test this and see what works for them.

Nick

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2017, 04:18:20 PM »
I agree that captcha is a problem, especially on mobile.

But I guess I'm old or something. Because I like confirmation emails. It ensures that someone else didn't type in the email address (which I used to see happen a lot back in the good old days). But more importantly, it ensures that I typed my email address correctly. Which is sometimes difficult to do on mobile.

Pretty much every site I sign up to does the confirmation email. Not sure why it's an issue for mailing lists.

Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2017, 07:49:31 PM »
I've had two experiences with single opt-in environments, and in both cases, they were flooded with bot-generated subscriptions.


I have zero bots signing up for my list, even on the occasions when I was spending $100+ a day on Facebook. It's a non-issue.


How can you tell if an email on your list is a bot email?

Offline Nicholas Erik

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2017, 08:16:07 PM »
How can you tell if an email on your list is a bot email?

Basically the same way you can tell if someone used a throwaway address to sign-up for your list. For a throwaway email, it might be like bluejaysredsoxyankees26666 - e.g. something that a person probably isn't using for their main email. For a non-real user, it'll be some weird string of numbers/letters or bizarre domain extension, based out of certain areas of the world that aren't heavily English speaking and wouldn't be interested in your books. Or you'd get a weird spike in sign-ups when you're not running a corresponding promotion or ad campaign. A massive spike in spam reports would be another one, if someone else was subscribing legitimate emails to your list without permission for some reason.

Naturally, you don't know 100% for sure. To be clear, when I say "I have zero bots signing up for my list," I don't know that there are literally zero. I mean that I have had zero problems with bots when using single opt-in, even when gathering cold subscribers who have never heard my name before. Unlike, say, the contact form on my website, which has no CAPTCHA and thus results in 3 - 5 spam emails a day sent to me,  there's no real incentive to sign-up a massive number of fake subs to someone else's account. I guess a bot could subscribe to get your email address to spam you. Otherwise, it just seems kind of pointless.

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Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2017, 08:39:09 PM »
Ah, gotcha. Thanks.

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2017, 09:32:02 PM »
Basically the same way you can tell if someone used a throwaway address to sign-up for your list. For a throwaway email, it might be like bluejaysredsoxyankees26666 - e.g. something that a person probably isn't using for their main email. For a non-real user, it'll be some weird string of numbers/letters or bizarre domain extension, based out of certain areas of the world that aren't heavily English speaking and wouldn't be interested in your books. Or you'd get a weird spike in sign-ups when you're not running a corresponding promotion or ad campaign. A massive spike in spam reports would be another one, if someone else was subscribing legitimate emails to your list without permission for some reason.

Naturally, you don't know 100% for sure. To be clear, when I say "I have zero bots signing up for my list," I don't know that there are literally zero. I mean that I have had zero problems with bots when using single opt-in, even when gathering cold subscribers who have never heard my name before. Unlike, say, the contact form on my website, which has no CAPTCHA and thus results in 3 - 5 spam emails a day sent to me,  there's no real incentive to sign-up a massive number of fake subs to someone else's account. I guess a bot could subscribe to get your email address to spam you. Otherwise, it just seems kind of pointless.

Nick

I've learned (through doing stupid things--like assuming and making embarrassingly wrong decisions), that assuming that an address on your list is or isn't legit based on the fact that "it looks weird" is always going to bite you in the butt. People used weirdalias@gmail.com ALL THE TIME. For the same reason people come here with anonymous user handles.

Someone who uses a disposable email is not a bot signup.

I've seen bot signups in KingSumo giveaways. The way you can tell is that you suddenly, in the space of a few hours, get thousand entries and the email addresses all have exactly the same format.

In your author list? You really can't tell.

Offline Puddleduck

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2017, 07:44:59 AM »
I've learned (through doing stupid things--like assuming and making embarrassingly wrong decisions), that assuming that an address on your list is or isn't legit based on the fact that "it looks weird" is always going to bite you in the butt. People used weirdalias@gmail.com ALL THE TIME. For the same reason people come here with anonymous user handles.

I once asked a guy for his email address, and he gave me this big sigh. He had a really common name, so he got a little too creative when trying to come up with a unique email address, and it ended up looking like a string of nonsense, but once he explained it, I could see the reason behind it. It's like with some of those personalized license plates. Just because it looks like gibberish doesn't necessarily mean it is.

Offline amdonehere

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2017, 07:54:33 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2017, 08:07:54 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?
I have double opt in on MC; I don't use CAPTCHA. All you do is go through all the forms and tick the ones you want to use; if you don't want to use CAPTCHA don't tick it.


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Offline Mylius Fox

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2017, 07:39:59 AM »
Well, now they sent me another email saying that, since my primary mailing address is in the EU, my list will remain double opt-in by default.  ::) Apparently there's something called the General Data Protection Regulation that's about to drop...

Offline SallyRose

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2017, 08:02:32 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?

It's been awhile since I created my forms, but if hasn't changed since they implemented the captcha requirement it worked like this:

If MC hosts your form (i.e. you're giving the eepurl address link for subscribers to sign up), you can't turn off captcha. But if you create an embedded form that's hosted on your website (the version that gives you a chunk of html to copy to your site after you create the form), then there is an option to turn off captcha. If I remember correctly it was some kind of tick-box at the bottom of the page where you create the embedded form.

Hope that helps!

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2017, 08:50:23 AM »
I understand these concerns, but I think they are more internet myth than reality.

I don't think this is some great sort of Machiavellian move on Mailchimp's part to generate additional revenue. I think they're making the switch because the web is becoming more and more dominated by mobile, and traditional double opt-in really doesn't work in that environment. Secondly, the increase in cost of running a list with more subscribers is generally nominal in comparison to the value those additional subscribers generate, so I wouldn't be concerned about higher costs anyway (and if that is a concern, switch to Mailerlite, which is very inexpensive).


Businesses are interested in making money. If making this change weren't about money they wouldn't do it.