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Stone and Silt
by Harvey Chute

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Kindle Edition published 2013-08-14
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Product Description
Big Al's Books & Pals 2014 Readers' Choice Awards: Young Adult Nominee

A ruthless murder and a stolen shipment of gold.

At school, sixteen-year-old Nikaia Wales endures the taunts of bullies who call her a “half-breed.” At home, she worries about how her family will react if she reveals her growing feelings for the quiet boy next door.

Those are soon the least of her troubles. Nikaia discovers a hidden cache of gold, and when police find a corpse nearby, her father becomes a suspect. Worse, Elias Doyle is circling, hungry to avenge his brother’s death.

Nikaia desperately searches for clues to save her father. In her quest to find the killer, she learns about the power of family, friendship, and young love....

Author Topic: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in  (Read 2882 times)  

Offline AlexaKang

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2017, 07:54:33 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?

Offline Lynna

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2017, 08:05:40 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?

I have double opt-in without captcha from Mailchimp. I mentioned it in an earlier post. I can't remember how I got it but that's what I have with both lists. One list is 4 years old (?) I think. The other is two-ish.

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2017, 08:07:54 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?
I have double opt in on MC; I don't use CAPTCHA. All you do is go through all the forms and tick the ones you want to use; if you don't want to use CAPTCHA don't tick it.


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Offline Mylius Fox

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2017, 07:39:59 AM »
Well, now they sent me another email saying that, since my primary mailing address is in the EU, my list will remain double opt-in by default.  ::) Apparently there's something called the General Data Protection Regulation that's about to drop...

Offline SallyRose

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2017, 08:02:32 AM »
What I'd like to know if is if I can have double opt-in without CAPTCHA. I can't see any way to do that on MC. Anyone knows?

It's been awhile since I created my forms, but if hasn't changed since they implemented the captcha requirement it worked like this:

If MC hosts your form (i.e. you're giving the eepurl address link for subscribers to sign up), you can't turn off captcha. But if you create an embedded form that's hosted on your website (the version that gives you a chunk of html to copy to your site after you create the form), then there is an option to turn off captcha. If I remember correctly it was some kind of tick-box at the bottom of the page where you create the embedded form.

Hope that helps!

Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2017, 08:50:23 AM »
I understand these concerns, but I think they are more internet myth than reality.

I don't think this is some great sort of Machiavellian move on Mailchimp's part to generate additional revenue. I think they're making the switch because the web is becoming more and more dominated by mobile, and traditional double opt-in really doesn't work in that environment. Secondly, the increase in cost of running a list with more subscribers is generally nominal in comparison to the value those additional subscribers generate, so I wouldn't be concerned about higher costs anyway (and if that is a concern, switch to Mailerlite, which is very inexpensive).


Businesses are interested in making money. If making this change weren't about money they wouldn't do it.


Offline Vinny OHare

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2017, 09:22:08 AM »
I don't understand why a major company like this would remove double opt in. If anything they should be making it triple opt in or something. I predict that spammers are gonna flock to their service.

Offline dgaughran

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2017, 10:22:17 AM »
Mailchimp sent out another update today: for all users based in the EU, double opt-in will REMAIN - as it's the law in the EU.

Isn't Canada the same?

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Offline jaehaerys

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #58 on: October 30, 2017, 12:09:49 PM »
Mailchimp sent out another update today: for all users based in the EU, double opt-in will REMAIN - as it's the law in the EU.

Isn't Canada the same?


I'm in Canada, received the notification they were moving to single opt-in starting tomorrow, and I had to check the box in my preferences to keep the double opt-in.


Offline thevoiceofone

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2017, 08:57:36 AM »
Just got the email. It'll be like that by default, and I was just wondering if I should leave it or manually set it back to double opt-in. Doesn't double opt-in help with not getting reported for spam later on?

THREE GOOD REASONS TO USE DOUBLE OPT-IN

1. Anyone online can use a throw away email to get your FREE giveaway for signing up and then never use that email again ( no use to you)

2. You could end up getting a lot of SPAM complaints because of some guy or gal using someone's email to sign up just for a laugh. ( that can get your account suspended and you can't do squat)

3. But the biggest one is.... How do email services make money? (By having you go from free to paid and from low paid to high paid accounts ) The easiest and only way for them to do that is hire someone in india, and then turn off double opt-in on ALL accounts and then pay them pennies to fill up ALL accounts with FAKE emails.  Now you suddenly end up in a higher package or going from free to paid without any control.

Double opt-in protects you and can save you a lot of money.

Don't buy into this crap about it will make building your list faster. ( Of course it will but that list might be of no use to you and it might cost you more than you have to spend )
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 09:02:50 AM by thevoiceofone »

Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2017, 08:31:00 PM »
2. You could end up getting a lot of SPAM complaints because of some guy or gal using someone's email to sign up just for a laugh. ( that can get your account suspended and you can't do squat)

Ok, maybe I can see a bored 12 year old doing this. It's like calling someone and asking if their refrigerator is running. And whoever they're messing with? They hit unsubscribe or spam. Like once would this be a thing. For this to trigger so many spam complaints you get suspended is a reach, at best. The 'victim' would be unsubscribing or reporting many lists, but he'd only be one name on your list. Now the other way? If someone mass adds many various real emails to your list and they all report you? You're being targeted, specifically. And if that's the case, I'm thinking a suspension is the least of your worries.


3. But the biggest one is.... How do email services make money? (By having you go from free to paid and from low paid to high paid accounts ) The easiest and only way for them to do that is hire someone in india, and then turn off double opt-in on ALL accounts and then pay them pennies to fill up ALL accounts with FAKE emails.  Now you suddenly end up in a higher package or going from free to paid without any control.

Seems like sabotaging their own business would be a one way ticket to no longer having a business at all. I can not see any legit newsletter company complying to the spam acts with one hand while killing their own chance to stay in business with the other. That would be an insane business practice.

Offline Anma Natsu

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2017, 08:39:02 PM »
Ok, maybe I can see a bored 12 year old doing this. It's like calling someone and asking if their refrigerator is running. And whoever they're messing with? They hit unsubscribe or spam. Like once would this be a thing. For this to trigger so many spam complaints you get suspended is a reach, at best. The 'victim' would be unsubscribing or reporting many lists, but he'd only be one name on your list. Now the other way? If someone mass adds many various real emails to your list and they all report you? You're being targeted, specifically. And if that's the case, I'm thinking a suspension is the least of your worries.

When I switched from Mailchimp to Mailerlite, Mailerlite's form did not have a captcha option.  I got over 400 bot spam sign ups in less than an hour.  If I hadn't had double opt in on, those would have all ended up on my newsletter and yes, that would have been a high enough level of spam complaints to likely get my account shut down.  I only even realized it happened so fast because some of those emails had auto respondser, like support email address and stuff.  The bots aren't personal, they don't target specific people, they just hit any site with a form they can find and throw in their spam.  I quickly made my own form with a captcha to stop that crap ASAP.

Offline Going Incognito

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2017, 08:44:36 PM »
When I switched from Mailchimp to Mailerlite, Mailerlite's form did not have a captcha option.  I got over 400 bot spam sign ups in less than an hour.  If I hadn't had double opt in on, those would have all ended up on my newsletter and yes, that would have been a high enough level of spam complaints to likely get my account shut down.  I only even realized it happened so fast because some of those emails had auto respondser, like support email address and stuff.  The bots aren't personal, they don't target specific people, they just hit any site with a form they can find and throw in their spam.  I quickly made my own form with a captcha to stop that crap ASAP.

Fair enough. Maybe I dont understand the point of the bots then. If bots are signing up to your list and then you send an email to those bot addresses, do the bots report you as spam? Or the bots fill out your form with someone's real email? And what's the point of that? You send an email to a stranger that never signed up. What does the bot owner get from that? What's the point?

Heading off to Google what the point of this is.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 08:53:59 PM by Going Incognito »

Offline Bill Hiatt

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Re: Mailchimp switching all signup forms to single opt-in
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2017, 04:25:24 AM »
Fair enough. Maybe I dont understand the point of the bots then. If bots are signing up to your list and then you send an email to those bot addresses, do the bots report you as spam? Or the bots fill out your form with someone's real email? And what's the point of that? You send an email to a stranger that never signed up. What does the bot owner get from that? What's the point?

Heading off to Google what the point of this is.
I'm speculating here, but I think bots look for ways in. What they're really looking for, probably, is sites where subscribers have access, for example the ability to post comments that don't go through moderation. Then they spread spam through post comments.

However, I think a lot of bots aren't built to distinguish what kind of link they're hitting. They hit a link, they go to a signup form--and they don't know what they're signing up for.

Two examples. When I was teaching, there was a period of time when I had a classroom website for online testing and other things hosted by a company. The company forgot to turn on the captcha for signups. Instead of seeing the number of signups I would have expected (the same number as I had students), Within a day, I had at least a hundred more than I had students, and the number went up every time I looked. Then I started looking at user data. The form included city and country info, and every "person" who wasn't my own student had a nonsensical combination. "No," I thought to myself. "Las Vegas isn't in Nigeria. Paris isn't in Iraq. Moscow isn't in the UK."

Bots! (Georgraphy wasn't part of their program!) What profit was there in signing up for a class website? Well, they could have spammed the forums, but those weren't even set up at the time the signups were pouring in. The bots had no idea what they were signing up for. They signed up on the off-chance it would give them access to some venue where they could propagate spam.

Second example: When I started running my author website, the same thing happened. The junk signups were coming in more slowly, but they were definitely coming in. I got my captcha set up, and they stopped.

Bots that sign up for mailing lists probably have no idea that's what they're signing up for. I suspect they hit every signup form they encounter, just on the off-chance that there's a way to spam something through it.

I'm not as worried, over prank signups--though anyone who thinks those would hardly ever happened hasn't dealt with a large number of teenagers. I would be worried about bot signups making my email account more and more expensive.

I don't think Mailchimp and other companies are encouraging that pattern on purpose. It's just what happens. If you have an open window with no screen, insects will get in. If you have an open signup with no optin or captcha, bots will get in.


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