Author Topic: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.  (Read 29105 times)  

Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #500 on: December 14, 2017, 05:39:11 AM »
On BBC World 'Beyond 100 days' a quote appeared with '... declared it null & avoid...' . Don't know who made the error, but I hope someone at the BBC noticed it  ::)

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Offline WHDean

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #501 on: December 14, 2017, 10:25:47 AM »
And FTR, I've never heard or said the word stayed pronounced as sted.  I can't imagine why anyone would, when the word is clearly spelled the same as payed, played, delayed, prayed, etc.  Spelled the same, pronounced to rhyme.

The Tar Heel wonders why some folks done gone and talked all funny like. ;D

Hmm, dictionary.com lists this word as Canadian in origin.   :P

I'm in the US and I've never heard the word before reading this post.  Maybe other parts of the US (?), but even if so, I don't think it's close to being widespread use here.

According to the Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles, a Canadian English project centred at the University of British Columbia, the word originated in Canada, though there have a been a few recorded uses in the U.S. (http://www.dchp.ca/dchp2/pages/welcome):

Quote
parkade < park (arc)ade DCHP-2 (December 2016)

n. Automotive

a building, usually above-ground and with several storeys, serving as a parking area for motor vehicles.

Type: 1. Origin Parkade is probably of Canadian origin, linked to the Hudson Bay department stores, which first appeared in Western Canada (see the first 1958 quotation). Boberg (2010: 179), with data gathered from self-reports, considers it primarily a Prairie and BC term (from Ontario eastwards parking garage is more frequently reported than parkade). Parkade is also the majority term in PEI (Boberg 2010). Chart 2 substantiates this finding. The term is most common in Alberta (see Chart 2), confirming overall the Prairie dominance from Boberg (MB, SK, AB) and BC, which can be partly explained by the western Canadian connection to the HBC department stores, as the first six of which, the "original six", opened in Victoria, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon and Winnipeg (see HBC reference), where the term is frequent to this day.

Apart from Canada (see Chart 1), the term has currency in South Africa, where it is most likely an independent development. Some US locations have adopted parkade (see the one shown in Image 2, from Spokane, Washington). From a North American perspective, the term is Canadian also by virtue of frequency (Type 5).

See COD-2, which labels the term "Cdn". See Gravol and day parole for other terms with a Canada/South-Africa parallel.

This dictionary has been driving me nuts because I hadn't realized how many everyday words are exclusively Canadian (e.g., parkade) and how many meanings of common words differ between the U.S. and Canada. Evenstar mentioned tabled up-thread. In Canada it means "to bring forward," but in the U.S. it means the opposite, "to postpone." Go figure.




Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #502 on: December 14, 2017, 11:39:19 AM »
The Tar Heel wonders why some folks done gone and talked all funny like. ;D

According to the Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles, a Canadian English project centred at the University of British Columbia, the word originated in Canada, though there have a been a few recorded uses in the U.S. (http://www.dchp.ca/dchp2/pages/welcome):

This dictionary has been driving me nuts because I hadn't realized how many everyday words are exclusively Canadian (e.g., parkade) and how many meanings of common words differ between the U.S. and Canada. Evenstar mentioned tabled up-thread. In Canada it means "to bring forward," but in the U.S. it means the opposite, "to postpone." Go figure.


Under Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (the book used by most organizations), the subsidiary motion to lay on the table is properly used only when it is necessary to suspend consideration of a main motion in order to deal with another matter that has come up unexpectedly and which must be dealt with before the ...

Robert's Rules For Dummies. The subsidiary motion to postpone indefinitely is the Robert's Rules way of avoiding uncomfortable decisions; its adoption means that your group has agreed not to decide. The adoption of postpone indefinitely says it's better not to decide than to decide one way or the other.

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Offline WHDean

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #503 on: December 14, 2017, 12:26:11 PM »
Under Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised (the book used by most organizations), the subsidiary motion to lay on the table is properly used only when it is necessary to suspend consideration of a main motion in order to deal with another matter that has come up unexpectedly and which must be dealt with before the ...

Robert's Rules For Dummies. The subsidiary motion to postpone indefinitely is the Robert's Rules way of avoiding uncomfortable decisions; its adoption means that your group has agreed not to decide. The adoption of postpone indefinitely says it's better not to decide than to decide one way or the other.

The Canadian meaning originates from our parliamentary procedures. We inherited the procedure and the meaning of tabled from the British Parliament:

https://www.ourcommons.ca/About/Compendium/TypicalSittingDay/c_d_tablingdocuments-e.htm

The table in "tabling a document" refers literally to the big table in the middle of the floor of the House of Commons. The Clerk of the House places the document on the table (= tables the document) for the House's consideration. This is where the generic sense of "bring forward" comes from. It was news to me that it meant the opposite in the U.S.


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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #504 on: December 14, 2017, 01:29:53 PM »
The Tar Heel wonders why some folks done gone and talked all funny like. ;D



Ha, don't get me started on Tar-Heel talk.  I'm not a native Carolinian, so when I moved here I had to get used to people saying they've "got the headache," or they're "fixin' to go" visit with "Bobby and them," and will be back "Monday week."    8)
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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #505 on: December 14, 2017, 10:37:15 PM »

This dictionary has been driving me nuts because I hadn't realized how many everyday words are exclusively Canadian (e.g., parkade) and how many meanings of common words differ between the U.S. and Canada. Evenstar mentioned tabled up-thread. In Canada it means "to bring forward," but in the U.S. it means the opposite, "to postpone." Go figure.




That's odd, because tabled means to postpone here in the UK and our words are usually the same as in Canada. The one that pees me off is momentarily. Here it means for a moment; in the US it means in a moment. 'I will be there momentarily' is gibberish to an English person, as far as I'm concerned. 'I was momentarily stunned' would probably be gibberish to an American.


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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #506 on: December 15, 2017, 05:02:59 AM »
That's odd, because tabled means to postpone here in the UK and our words are usually the same as in Canada. The one that pees me off is momentarily. Here it means for a moment; in the US it means in a moment. 'I will be there momentarily' is gibberish to an English person, as far as I'm concerned. 'I was momentarily stunned' would probably be gibberish to an American.

Strangely, no, it isn't.  Oddly, I think for many Americans, momentarily can have both definitions you mention, either for a moment, or in a moment.
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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #507 on: December 15, 2017, 06:05:13 AM »
Strangely, no, it isn't.  Oddly, I think for many Americans, momentarily can have both definitions you mention, either for a moment, or in a moment.
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Offline WHDean

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #508 on: December 15, 2017, 06:56:40 AM »
Ha, don't get me started on Tar-Heel talk.  I'm not a native Carolinian, so when I moved here I had to get used to people saying they've "got the headache," or they're "fixin' to go" visit with "Bobby and them," and will be back "Monday week."    8)

In case it wasn't obvious to everyone, I wasn't knocking Southern accents. I find the whole business interesting. I was recently watching videos about the so-called Hoi Toiders from the Outer Banks of North Carolina:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXs9cf2YWwg

That's odd, because tabled means to postpone here in the UK and our words are usually the same as in Canada. The one that pees me off is momentarily. Here it means for a moment; in the US it means in a moment. 'I will be there momentarily' is gibberish to an English person, as far as I'm concerned. 'I was momentarily stunned' would probably be gibberish to an American.

The dominant meanings of tabled seem to be the same in the UK and Canada because tabling is common in both our parliaments. The postpone meaning is used in both countries too because, as Jan pointed out, that's the meaning in Robert's Rules. If you're thinking the postpone meaning is dominant, it's probably because you're more familiar with it for some reason. This Wikipedia page covers it, including an anecdote from Churchill about how the different senses of tabled caused confusion in a meeting with the U.S. officials:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)
 
Here's a line from a Guardian story published a few days ago:

Quote
In the week following the referendum, I tabled a bill calling for a referendum to give people the final say on the exit package, with an option to continue our EU membership if voters believed their reasonable expectations for Brexit hadnt been realised.

Offline Bluebonnet

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #509 on: December 17, 2017, 03:06:44 AM »
Going back to the definitions and pronunciation of peeked/peaked/piqued:

There is a type of fabric weave called pique, pronounced pee-kay. "Pique refers to a weaving style, normally used with cotton yarn, which is characterized by raised parallel cords or fine ribbing.  It creates a fine textured surface that appears similar to a waffle weave.  Commonly used for polo shirts." Source:

https://threadlogic.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/what-is-pique-and-how-is-it-pronounced/

Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #510 on: December 17, 2017, 04:56:09 AM »
Going back to the definitions and pronunciation of peeked/peaked/piqued:

There is a type of fabric weave called pique, pronounced pee-kay. "Pique refers to a weaving style, normally used with cotton yarn, which is characterized by raised parallel cords or fine ribbing.  It creates a fine textured surface that appears similar to a waffle weave.  Commonly used for polo shirts." Source:

https://threadlogic.wordpress.com/2012/12/26/what-is-pique-and-how-is-it-pronounced/

English is a minefield. Learning it as a second language must be one of the most frustrating languages to master. ::)

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #511 on: December 17, 2017, 05:30:09 AM »
In case it wasn't obvious to everyone, I wasn't knocking Southern accents. I find the whole business interesting. I was recently watching videos about the so-called Hoi Toiders from the Outer Banks of North Carolina:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXs9cf2YWwg

The dominant meanings of tabled seem to be the same in the UK and Canada because tabling is common in both our parliaments. The postpone meaning is used in both countries too because, as Jan pointed out, that's the meaning in Robert's Rules. If you're thinking the postpone meaning is dominant, it's probably because you're more familiar with it for some reason. This Wikipedia page covers it, including an anecdote from Churchill about how the different senses of tabled caused confusion in a meeting with the U.S. officials:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)
 
Here's a line from a Guardian story published a few days ago:

Don't worry, I realize there was no criticism intended.  However, it IS interesting that even within a single state, there can be such variation in pronunciations and word usage.  I bet that many Carolinians in the piedmont or western part of the state wouldn't be familiar with the "hoi toid" dialect of the OB. 
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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #512 on: December 17, 2017, 08:45:16 AM »
It's spit and image. Not spitting image.

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Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #513 on: December 17, 2017, 09:01:13 AM »
It's spit and image. Not spitting image.

spitting image
nouninformal
the exact double of (another person or thing).
"she's the spitting image of her mum"

https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/spitting-image.html
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:03:25 AM by Jan Hurst-Nicholson »

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Offline LadyG

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #514 on: December 17, 2017, 09:12:29 AM »
A word that always bothers me is "conversate." Ugh. No, you converse with someone and have a conversation, but you do not conversate. Unfortunately, I argued about this one with a journalist friend and looked it up to prove my point . . . and discovered that I was wrong. Merriam-Webster says either way is correct.

It still makes me cringe when I hear it, though.

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #515 on: December 17, 2017, 09:14:37 AM »
It's spit and image. Not spitting image.

I think (not official knowledge, but just from some informal googling) that both terms may be acceptable.  I read about this phrase once, and there are various theories as to the origin.  I personally go with the theory that it developed from "spirit and image"... that is, that someone embodies another person in looks and behavior.  This might have evolved into "spit and image" which further evolved into "spitting image."  But who knows, I don't think there's a definitive answer.


A word that always bothers me is "conversate." Ugh. No, you converse with someone and have a conversation, but you do not conversate. Unfortunately, I argued about this one with a journalist friend and looked it up to prove my point . . . and discovered that I was wrong. Merriam-Webster says either way is correct.

It still makes me cringe when I hear it, though.
Yikes, I hadn't heard that one, but I agree:  Ugh.  Sounds (again) like a word that has been coined from existing words, and which does NOT need to exist.
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Offline WHDean

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #516 on: December 17, 2017, 06:00:34 PM »
Don't worry, I realize there was no criticism intended.  However, it IS interesting that even within a single state, there can be such variation in pronunciations and word usage.  I bet that many Carolinians in the piedmont or western part of the state wouldn't be familiar with the "hoi toid" dialect of the OB. 

Yeah, same thing on the east coast of Canada. Accents vary within these small provinces. Yet you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between residents of British Columbia on the far west coast and the accent of people from Toronto. (I was also listening to some Cajun French the other day. I was blown away that they still speak the same French spoken today by their cousins in Acadia, which differs from both Quebec French and Parisian French.)

On another note, I've been struggling with the audio version of Thomas Madden's history of the crusades. The narrator is terrible, but the worst must be his insistence on pronouncing the possessive plural crusaders' with a -zez at the end. The crusader-zez vow, the crusader-zez mission, the crusader-zez retreat, and on and on. You can image how many times it's said in a history of the crusades.  ???



     

Offline Doglover

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #517 on: December 17, 2017, 11:12:04 PM »
It's spit and image. Not spitting image.
In whose language?


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Offline Doglover

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #518 on: December 17, 2017, 11:16:24 PM »
A word that always bothers me is "conversate." Ugh. No, you converse with someone and have a conversation, but you do not conversate. Unfortunately, I argued about this one with a journalist friend and looked it up to prove my point . . . and discovered that I was wrong. Merriam-Webster says either way is correct.

It still makes me cringe when I hear it, though.
Well, it's not one I've ever heard used in England. It sounds like a derivative word, like saying something is a bit 'suspect' or 'my bad' (which makes me grimace).
I think (not official knowledge, but just from some informal googling) that both terms may be acceptable.  I read about this phrase once, and there are various theories as to the origin.  I personally go with the theory that it developed from "spirit and image"... that is, that someone embodies another person in looks and behavior.  This might have evolved into "spit and image" which further evolved into "spitting image."  But who knows, I don't think there's a definitive answer.

Perhaps we should ask the writers of the wonderul tv send up comedy 'Spitting Image' which took the pee out of our politicians.


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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #519 on: December 17, 2017, 11:33:51 PM »
Daily Mail is full of bloopers. Just saw this one, in an article about a celebrity and her stalkers: "Her show is a magnate for these guys."

Magnet, DM, magnet! That wasn't even a typo. Do they still employ proofreaders?

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #520 on: December 17, 2017, 11:43:20 PM »
Daily Mail is full of bloopers. Just saw this one, in an article about a celebrity and her stalkers: "Her show is a magnate for these guys."

Magnet, DM, magnet! That wasn't even a typo. Do they still employ proofreaders?

Yes, but they are not required to know the Queen's English. Probably school kids on work experience.

When I had my house up for sale, I got a letter through the door from a local estate agent which insisted they could get me the 'illusive' sale. I emailed them back, pointing out that if they couldn't be sure their communications were spelled correctly, I doubted they could support that statement.


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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #521 on: December 17, 2017, 11:46:15 PM »
I know that forum comments are casual and are not supposed to be critiqued for errors, but I couldn't resist this one. (It wasn't from this forum.)

"I feed Ferrell cats."

 ;D

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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #522 on: December 17, 2017, 11:54:44 PM »
I know that forum comments are casual and are not supposed to be critiqued for errors, but I couldn't resist this one. (It wasn't from this forum.)

"I feed Ferrell cats."

 ;D
What an admission! You really shouldn't feed someone else's cat; Mr Ferrell won't like it at all! :)


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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #523 on: December 18, 2017, 04:58:35 AM »
Daily Mail is full of bloopers. Just saw this one, in an article about a celebrity and her stalkers: "Her show is a magnate for these guys."

Magnet, DM, magnet! That wasn't even a typo. Do they still employ proofreaders?

Wow.  I can see someone using magnet when magnate is the correct word ("the well-known shipping magnet"), but not the other way around.  The Daily Mail must be a real hoity-toity publication.   :P
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Re: For heaven's sake, people, you're authors.
« Reply #524 on: December 18, 2017, 08:09:07 AM »
Atrocious errors started appearing in newspapers about 10 years ago when they all downsized to compete on the web. The first people to go were the copyeditors. One of my favourite mistakes was a fact-check note that got left in text in an op-ed in the National Post--something like

Quote
...the Bob Jones, Member of Parliament for Toronto Centre [CHECK], claimed that...


Since they'd fired all the copyeditors, there was no one left to CHECK. :D