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KU Page Stuffing Explained - Helpful Video

43K views 504 replies 77 participants last post by  Becca Mills 
#1 ·
When the topic of KU gaming comes up, many people don't seem to understand what page stuffing (aka book stuffing or bonus stuffing) is and why it is so harmful. Author Heather C. Leigh has made a handy video explainer:

(Before the usual suspects chime in, yes, this practice is against the TOS and KDP Executive Customer Relations has confirmed that explicitly to me in writing.)

Edit: New link for the video:


Edited to change image to a link - further explanation in my post below, but do PM me if any questions. Evenstar, Moderator
 
#2 ·
KENPC 3 doesn't count skipped pages anymore, though. This is kind of a moot point. The only way people get paid for "stuffed pages" now is if the person actually reads the bonus books. Whether you believe that bonus content is against KDP terms of service or not (I don't), there is nothing wrong with someone getting paid for pages a reader actually reads. There's nothing illicit about that at all.
 
#4 ·
SaraBourgeois said:
KENPC 3 doesn't count skipped pages anymore, though. This is kind of a moot point. The only way people get paid for "stuffed pages" now is if the person actually reads the bonus books. Whether you believe that bonus content is against KDP terms of service or not (I don't), there is nothing wrong with someone getting paid for pages a reader actually reads. There's nothing illicit about that at all.
Leaving aside the first part, which seems to still be broken on some devices and in some situations, this isn't a question of bonus content, like a novella included in a box set. These are the same books, put together in multiple different ways, not marked in the product descriptions, etc. You're reading a book, hit 30%, and it ends, only to have a bunch of other stuff at the back. It creates a messy, unfavorable impression of the ebooks being sold on Amazon's store.

Also, my experience is that people are rarely breaking only one rule. They're squatting in inappropriate categories, they're stuffing keywords into their titles, they're cheating on the pub dates in order to try to game the hot new release lists, etc.
 
#5 ·
SaraBourgeois said:
Whether you believe that bonus content is against KDP terms of service or not (I don't)...
It's against the TOS. I emailed KDP Executive Customer Relations to establish exactly that. I'll copy the emails here for you.

My email to ECR in July:

Their completely unambiguous response (emphasizing the most relevant part):

Executive Customer Relations
 
#6 ·
All of the evidence I've seen is that the loophole has been plugged. (Except for possibly on the cloud reader on PC). It is no longer the issue it was, so videos like this are stirring people up for a non- issue.

As far as "if they're doing one thing, they must be doing other things", that's not the point here. Even if I agree with you, I think it's a bad idea to go after people for something that isn't true. It destroys your credibility. If you continue to throw anything you can against the wall and hope something sticks, no one is going to take you seriously.
 
#7 ·
So this is where David and I might have a slight disagreement. If there's a box set, and it says "includes the bonus novella: SOME COOL BOOK", and that novella isn't here, there, and everywhere, I think that's okay. So sure, "bonus content." David is stricter on this than I am.

But what is unambiguous is that books that aren't mentioned in the description and that are included in different sets, merely reordered this way and that in a way to throw up all sorts of titles and confuse the lists, the algos, the readers, is violating the ToS. And in my experience, when you see something that looks scammy at the very first glance, those are the same authors who are up to all sorts of other garbage, too. It's not an innocent mistake, they are purposefully trying to defraud the system.
 
#11 ·
I'm really not. I'm actually trying to be helpful. If I do agree that there are shady things going on, then the focus needs to be on stuff that's still happening. Drudging the bottom for old issues isn't going to stop the current nefarious stuff from happening. The focus needs to be on the things that are still affecting authors right now and not on the issues that Amazon has already fixed.
 
#12 ·
SaraBourgeois said:
Drudging the bottom for old issues isn't going to stop the current nefarious stuff from happening.
It's not an old issue. These guys are still stuffing, and still leveraging those artificially increase page counts into greater payouts from the communal pot, All Star bonuses they don't deserve, and visibility they are taking from others.

SaraBourgeois said:
The focus needs to be on the things that are still affecting authors right now and not on the issues that Amazon has already fixed.
It hasn't been fixed.
 
#14 ·
Sorry, I don't have screenshots of the tests I've seen people run.

One question, though. I've noticed that the books by the authors that all of this is referring to, the masterminds, have gotten significantly shorter. Instead of 1200 - 1500 pages, it seems that they are now 300 - 600 pages. Doesn't that indicate that the "stuffing" isn't working anymore?
 
#19 ·
Including bonus material is not against TOS. It is unethical when it is multiple 'free' books that exceed the length of the original book or when the author tries to trick someone into reading something 'at the back.' This video is dangerously slanderous IMO.
 
#20 ·
SuzyQ said:
Including bonus material is not against TOS. It is unethical when it is multiple 'free' books that exceed the length of the original book or when the author tries to trick someone into reading something 'at the back.' This video is dangerously slanderous IMO.
What part is slanderous? It shows the stuffing that is taking place quite clearly.
 
#22 ·
So, I checked some of the books she's talking about in the video. I have a KU subscription. There isn't a link at the end of the epilogue in the Mia Ford or Joanna Blake book to skip to the "sneak peaks".

Regardless if what you are saying is true or not, this video does contain some misinformation about some of the authors mentioned.
 
G
#23 ·
The answer is to not play Amazon's game. Leave KU to the page stuffers and scammers. If Amazon won't do anything about it then it's up to you to deal with it yourselves. They're saying it's not a problem, but if all the genuine authors leave KU because of the inherent unfairness of the system, then Amazon has to either deal with the issue, or continue to ignore it. If the readers complained about page stuffing, then Amazon would deal with it - but they don't and probably won't.

Honestly, this chestnut has been roasted so many times it's wizened and dry as a bone.

and from my point of view (from outside KU) the reader isn't getting a bad deal and there's little difference between calling it a boxset and having the pages stuffed. The reader gets a great VFM deal either way. The problem is purely using the links to jump from one end of the book to the other. Something anyone can do with any book at any time. The system's broken - so why continue to use it?
 
#24 ·
Not everyone games KU in the exact same way.
  • Some use ghostwriters, others do not.
  • Some incentivize/manipulate reviews, others do not.
  • Some engage in mass-gifting, others do not.
  • Some squat in inappropriate categories, others do not.
  • Some steal photos of celebs to use for Facebook ads, others do not.
  • Some use click here inducements in the front-matter, others work it in to the actual narrative, others again use more subtle means to encourage that end-click, many take it out of their books when called out about it (then slip it back in when the heat dies down), some don't risk it at all these days, but have done it before, and I'm sure others may never have risked it at all given what a hot button issue it is.
They all have one thing in common that I've seen: stuffing.

(Note: not saying there is anything inherently wrong with ghosting, just mentioning that some do it, some don't. Also, many of these other behaviors are also against the TOS. Some of the others might be minor fouls in isolation, it's when combined with the stuffing that it becomes a real dick move, and much more problematic overall.)
 
#25 ·
We have received several reports and so I think it is best to clarify a couple of things.

As far as I am aware, we do allow links here to most content, providing it is "family friendly", what we try to avoid, however, is people naming names on this site, unless they are speaking of personal experiences (and even then we use as much discretion as we feel able). So please avoid any "naming and shaming" here or the posts will be edited.

Evenstar
Kboards Moderator
 
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