Author Topic: ways to be less Amazon dependent (Read 7260 times) Tweet

HSh · « **on:** January 11, 2018, 08:44:09 AM »

I'm starting this thread in the hopes that people will share ideas. Here are some of mine:

Cultivate pre-release audience. (With Payhip / Patreon / other platforms)

I'm currently trying out Patreon, and I use Payhip as an "also" option for readers who like different formats, etc. The question for me about an early release there is "will it just annoy my readers?" I haven't tried it yet to find out. (As much as some people LOVE to have a non-store-dependent copy of an ebook, others are very attached to a particular store, and I won't really want to annoy them.) Has anyone experimented with this, and found it worked?

I know some people make most of their sales on other platforms (or in other countries), I'm just not sure how that works.

Anyway if you have ideas you want to share, please do. It's not that I hate Amazon, but recent threads have made me nervous, and I like the idea of crowdsourcing some new ideas and thinking ahead a bit.

For the record, I am wide, but not highly skilled at a lot of "wide" skills yet.

kw3000 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2018, 10:01:42 AM »

Yes, I'm trying to figure out ways to diversify as well. Probably something else within the digital economy. Always good to hedge your bets. Good topic, thanks. I'll be reading with interest.

Guy Riessen · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2018, 10:13:52 AM »

I'm also in the process of setting up my Patreon page as well.

When you say Payhip, are you distributing on your own site? Who are you using for distribution? I know Bookfunnel can now handle distribution with Paypal or Payhip handling the payment side. At them moment I am still just on Amazon, but I am trying to watch everything

David VanDyke · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2018, 10:35:34 AM »

What's worked for me (synergistically, not in isolation):

Wide on all sites, including the big 5 plus all the smaller ones though aggregators
Permafree series intro books. Longer series may have 2 or 3 of these.
Related series in the same genre that help feed each other
Relentless promotion of the permafrees, including constant submission to BookBub* and using in-house promotion such as Kobo offers
Always focusing on the numbers. Get high numbers of free books out there and the read-thru sales will come

*this presupposes good content and professional presentation that will make it through the tough selection process often enough to matter

I went full wide (with my English language books) near the end of 2015 with the KU/page read debacle. For December 2017, my non-Amazon income exceeded my Amazon income for those books, meaning Amazon is less than 50% of those sales now, while overall retail sales are up for me, mostly ebooks. I call that a resounding win, though it took about 15 months to get off the KU dependency and get here.

notjohn · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2018, 01:01:26 PM »

Quote from: David VanDyke on January 11, 2018, 10:35:34 AM

I went full wide (with my English language books) near the end of 2015 with the KU/page read debacle. For December 2017, my non-Amazon income exceeded my Amazon income for those books, meaning Amazon is less than 50% of those sales now, while overall retail sales are up for me, mostly ebooks. I call that a resounding win, though it took about 15 months to get off the KU dependency and get here.

Yes, it is indeed a resounding win. My sales ratio is about 85 percent Amazon, 15 percent the rest of the world. Sad to say, that's down from 75/25 two or three years ago. And over that span of time, I've added Google Play and some minor European vendors through D2D and Streetlib.

With the 50 percent royalty scare of recent date, I wondered if I should rethink my direct sales plan of a year or two ago. I built PDF, mobi, and epub editions of a couple books through a vendor whose name I have forgotten. I didn't sell a single book, so I deleted them. I'd like to hear from people who have done this successfully.

ZsofiaMacho · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2018, 01:13:42 PM »

Thinking ahead is only good! I remember there was a thread recently started by Ricardo from Reedsy. He has recently written an article exactly on this topic and touched the question of going wide vs Amazon only. I think it has some interesting points and options:

https://blog.reedsy.com/ebook-distribution/

Arches · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2018, 01:25:18 PM »

The best way to be less Amazon dependent is . . . don't quit your day job. Self-publishing is a crazy way to make a living, but it can be lots of fun as a hobby.

Herc- The Reluctant Geek · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2018, 01:31:24 PM »

The problem is the Kindle. Amazon gives kindle owners a big pool of books to read and we fill that pool. The ereaders tied to other retailers like the Nook and Kobo's Aura aren't nearly as popular and so don't have as many readers tied to them.

Reading on other devices, like phones/tablets/computers hasn't really caught on as yet, but it will. My 14yo son has no problem reading on screens, and most of his textbooks are electronic. As his generation comes into its own, reading on electronic devices other than ereaders will grow and our dependence on Amazon will fade.

At least that's what I hope will happen. You never know what Mr Bezos has up his sleeve...

C. Gockel · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2018, 02:42:14 PM »

Despite having a trilogy & some short stories in KU last year, my income was still 1/3 other retailers, 2/3 Amazon. I'm taking my trilogy wide at the end of the month, so that may increase.

HSh · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2018, 03:23:21 PM »

Quote from: Guy Riessen on January 11, 2018, 10:13:52 AM

When you say Payhip, are you distributing on your own site? Who are you using for distribution?

Payhip has a site. I just have to link to it. They send ZERO traffic there (no storefront, no discoverability etc), but people pay and download directly from the site.

This is mine https://payhip.com/HollisShiloh. They handle VAT. (I haven't uploaded all my backlist, just some titles.) I get a few sales a month from people who prefer to download a format (or multiple formats). I upload epub, pdf, and mobi.

ZsofiaMacho · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2018, 03:23:55 PM »

Quote from: C. Gockel on January 11, 2018, 02:42:14 PM

Despite having a trilogy & some short stories in KU last year, my income was still 1/3 other retailers, 2/3 Amazon. I'm taking my trilogy wide at the end of the month, so that may increase.

I think it depends a lot on your genre and country of origin as well. According to Data Guy, there are some English speaking countries where Amazon only has half of the cake: http://authorearnings.com/report/february-2017/

Seneca42 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2018, 03:40:24 PM »

I think the one thing every single wide author should do is email their distributor (kobo, itunes, D2D, whoever) and promo outlets they like and let them know that you want enhanced promotional tools / opportunities that are non-zon specific/targetted.

We gotta let them know we want more from them. If we don't they'll just assume there's no hunger in the market for services that help authors build a revenue stream away from zon.

Bookread · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2018, 05:15:31 PM »

I'm very interested to hear other's experiences with Payhip. It's something I'm curious about. I'm pleased that I've went wide. In November, I made 3 times with Apple that I did with Amazon. Me=eggs in many baskets.

Reveries · « **Reply #13 on:** January 12, 2018, 03:05:21 AM »

Quote from: HSh on January 11, 2018, 03:23:21 PM

Payhip has a site. I just have to link to it. They send ZERO traffic there (no storefront, no discoverability etc), but people pay and download directly from the site.

This is mine https://payhip.com/HollisShiloh. They handle VAT. (I haven't uploaded all my backlist, just some titles.) I get a few sales a month from people who prefer to download a format (or multiple formats). I upload epub, pdf, and mobi.

Thank you. Payhip looks really interesting since you seem to get 95% royalties from there after VAT etc has been paid. What are the options for authors to get paid? By bank account or just by paypal, and does the money dribble in after every book sale or arrive at intervals?

Lydniz� · « **Reply #14 on:** January 12, 2018, 03:22:35 AM »

For Amazon users, the advantage of shopping there for ebooks is that the book will appear automagically on the reader's Kindle. If you have a mobi option on Payhip, I'm guessing that's going to involve sideloading?

Joe Mynhardt · « **Reply #15 on:** January 12, 2018, 04:43:08 AM »

Thanks for all the info. I've taken a few books wide via D2D, but looks like that wasn't wide enough.

DIAMONDSINTHESKY · « **Reply #16 on:** January 12, 2018, 05:25:52 AM »

Damn trying to absorb all this information is giving me a headache!

HSh · « **Reply #17 on:** January 12, 2018, 07:45:46 AM »

Quote from: Reveries on January 12, 2018, 03:05:21 AM

Thank you. Payhip looks really interesting since you seem to get 95% royalties from there after VAT etc has been paid. What are the options for authors to get paid? By bank account or just by paypal, and does the money dribble in after every book sale or arrive at intervals?

I think it's just Paypal but I could be wrong...you'd need to check.

What happens is I get an email "You sold an item!" from Payhip, and a payment from Paypal in the amount it sold for directly from the person who bought the item. Then I get an email "Your payment has been sent" from Paypal, the amount of Payhip's cut + whatever VAT fees the reader may have paid. These three emails all happens within seconds of each other. It's pretty automatic. (Don't forget Paypal also takes a few cents fee as well; there's no email about that.)

I don't know yet if that's going to be fiddling and difficult for tax purposes...I haven't received any tax documents yet for 2017 (from anyone) so I guess we'll see. I haven't made a TON from selling direct through Payhip, but for one release I forgot to upload there. It simply skipped my mind. I received polite emails from a couple of readers who asked when it would be available...some readers really do prefer that method.

Quote from: Lydniz on January 12, 2018, 03:22:35 AM

For Amazon users, the advantage of shopping there for ebooks is that the book will appear automagically on the reader's Kindle. If you have a mobi option on Payhip, I'm guessing that's going to involve sideloading?

Yes. There's always been a subset of readers who prefer sideloading...or who learned to do it to make use of review copies, etc. I'm not saying it's a huge percentage but at least in romance, it's always been there.

Whether the rest of readers would be willing to adapt to early releases involving sideloading...that's an open question, really.

One thing I forgot to mention. You can give coupons for Payhip. That wouldn't have to affect your price anywhere else and you could encourage people to try it that way. Like 20% off for your mailing list, that kind of thing. (Seeing another author in my genre do that was the thing that finally made me willing to try Payhip. That, and the VAT thing. Theoretically you can earn as much as elsewhere while charging your readers less and not breaking any rules, either.)

Sailor Stone · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2018, 07:51:48 AM »

I just listened to a podcast from Bookfunnel and they have started to assist authors in selling their books directly to readers. They not only coordinate the payment with PayPal or whomever the author uses for payment processing, but they also download the book file into the reader's device. It looks like a good way for the author to cross the Amazon's great rapids to their readers on the other side of the river without drowning in Amazon's walled garden of exclusivity (I'm on a mixed metaphor kick at the moment; try it; it's fun

).

HSh · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2018, 08:16:10 AM »

Quote from: Seneca42 on January 11, 2018, 03:40:24 PM

I think the one thing every single wide author should do is email their distributor (kobo, itunes, D2D, whoever) and promo outlets they like and let them know that you want enhanced promotional tools / opportunities that are non-zon specific/targetted. We gotta let them know we want more from them. If we don't they'll just assume there's no hunger in the market for services that help authors build a revenue stream away from zon.

I think you might be right! OK. I'm committing here and now to write at least 1 email within the next five days. (That's a bigger deal than you'd think bc I'm a bit of a procrastinator about emails...)

Quote from: Sailor Stone on January 12, 2018, 07:51:48 AM

I just listened to a podcast from Bookfunnel and they have started to assist authors in selling their books directly to readers. They not only coordinate the payment with PayPal or whomever the author uses for payment processing, but they also download the book file into the reader's device. It looks like a good way for the author to cross the Amazon's great rapids to their readers on the other side of the river without drowning in Amazon's walled garden of exclusivity (I'm on a mixed metaphor kick at the moment; try it; it's fun ).

Hm, that sounds worth keeping an eye on! Thanks.

I'm currently using Bookfunnel for Patreon but I don't know that it's an unqualified success (or even necessary). (One of my readers couldn't get it to work even with their tech support's help, while she had no problem sideloading by herself!)

But more options are good and it might be very helpful as another sales platform. Definitely good to know there are more changes afoot!

TwistedTales · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2018, 08:48:14 AM »

Quote from: Sailor Stone on January 12, 2018, 07:51:48 AM

I just listened to a podcast from Bookfunnel and they have started to assist authors in selling their books directly to readers. They not only coordinate the payment with PayPal or whomever the author uses for payment processing, but they also download the book file into the reader's device. It looks like a good way for the author to cross the Amazon's great rapids to their readers on the other side of the river without drowning in Amazon's walled garden of exclusivity (I'm on a mixed metaphor kick at the moment; try it; it's fun ).

This is a good thread. We�re kicking off an assessment of Bookfunnel and Payhip to see if we can set up a direct buy where we offer buyers 50% discounts. Providing they can download the books to the app of their choice it�d make very little difference to many loyal fans, especially if we include various free add ons.

Like I�ve said, I wouldn�t have bothered, but Amazon have set up their shop so I have to market wide anyway. What difference is it if I offer readers the option of iTunes, Amazon, google and direct buy at half the price? Sure, I wouldn�t expect a lot of take up to start with, but over time it may grow and, if the Amazon site continues to drive sale only authors out, then it gives me a platform to sell to my loyal fans. In effect, Amazon become the first step in the sales funnel to find new readers and after that you can offer incentives to bring them direct.

None of this was easily doable until apps like Bookfunnel showed up. No doubt, they need to mature as well, but give it a year or two and the book landscape could look very different.

aimeeeasterling · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2018, 08:58:49 AM »

Everything David said. To which I'd add --- nurture readers with a mailing list. Build a readership who loves your books rather than finding them interchangable with all the other books in your genre (while still fulfilling the expectations of the genre reader). Link to outlets other than Amazon when you list new releases and sales.

I still launch in KU, but my older series tend to hover at about 40-50% income from non-Amazon platforms.

kw3000 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2018, 09:00:23 AM »

Quote from: TwistedTales on January 12, 2018, 08:48:14 AM

None of this was easily doable until apps like Bookfunnel showed up. No doubt, they need to mature as well, but give it a year or two and the book landscape could look very different.

Indeed, it does seem as though the ground is shifting beneath our feet, and fast.

NatTHill · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2018, 09:06:51 AM »

I really love these threads! Like most things in life, there isn't ONE way to get there. I recently read a post on here that mentioned how 30,000 books were sold after she quit the kdp select platform and allowed her books to be exposed through different vendors. Thus encouraging me to sign up for d2d to see if there is any method to the madness of making books permafree.

TwistedTales · « **Reply #24 on:** January 12, 2018, 09:21:25 AM »

Quote from: kw3000 on January 12, 2018, 09:00:23 AM

Indeed, it does seem as though the ground is shifting beneath our feet, and fast.

It has been an interesting week. Bob confirmed what I suspected was happening to the top 100 cats (content mills/mail list groupies), and Amazon are clearly getting ready to harvest their investment by taking even more margin through 50% and AMS Bid+. Even if they don�t release that stuff tomorrow, the writing is not only on the wall now, we now have some insight as to how it will play out.

I think many of us have been waiting for the future to become clearer and 2018 looks like it might be the year.

I spent 2017 unwinding my dependency on Amazon and getting used to living with close to zero visibility. This year I plan to delist my print and send buyers to Ingram (or my own site). I hadn�t thought to direct buyers to a buying platform I control, but I can see why it might be worth having the option available. Luckily, I have an IT developer on tap so they�ll work out how to do it.

FB are making changes as well, none of which bother me because I�m ok paying for what I get, and good advertizing is never free. I can see a way to utilize FB so it can play into multiple directions for sales, including my own site.

I�m not usually one for breaking new ground this way if there�s an easier road to follow, but with the advent of the content mills/mail list groupies taking control of the top 100 cats, then Amazon isn�t offering me anything other than a place to list my books. When I look at what they�ve done to ACX, all I can say is I�m glad I didn�t hitch my wagon to that train. Add to that the new KDP print shop and I can see where CreateSpace is probably going, so I don�t want Amazon to have control of my print either. Now we�ve had a couple of odd leaks about royalties and AMS plans, none of which are likely to be in my favor. They�d have to pull a rabbit out of hat for it to be anything I�ll be interested in. Amazon have a real track record of bait and switch, so a lot of us are understandably wary.

I think if you take the shifting ground in a positive way, this could be the impetus to design and learn new ways to drive buyers to your products. To be honest, 2018 may well make as many people as it breaks, providing they look at ways to reempower themselves in what has become a business with every shrinking margins. Even the content mill/mail list groupies are going to find their margins shrink despite dominating the top of the shop.

Interesting days indeed.