Author Topic: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?  (Read 2362 times)  

Offline parada

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How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« on: January 17, 2018, 03:06:02 AM »
Hi guys,
we all remember troubles that page flip was making since 2016... Using various methods, I was able to successfully disable PF in 2017 but when publishing or editing my books in 2018 I noticed that PF begins to appear on all of my books. So I have two questions:

1. What to do to disable PF in 2018?
2. Does PF still matter? (I hear some opinion that PF no longer makes errors when counting KENP - that azon fixed it. Is it true?)

Thanks for your replies.

Online ShayneRutherford

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 10:38:27 AM »
I think the consensus is that Amazon wants pageflip enabled, so disabling it doesn't last for very long no matter what you do. As to the question of it being fixed for page counting, there's still quite a bit of debate. Some people say yes, some say no.
     

Offline Cheyanne

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 11:20:56 AM »
There's not a way to disable it anymore. In fact, Amazon is giving me an error message every time I try to upload an epub file with an SVG in it to disable page flip. Amazon replied to my inquiries confirming that they are NOT paying us for any pages read in page flip mode, and they have no plans to start paying for it. I begged them to please disable page flip on my books and they said no. Even after I told them that I have readers using the Kindle app on Ipads who say they read all my books in page flip mode, Amazon still says they won't pay us for these pages read.

I assume it'll only get worse in 2018 and they'll only find more ways to cheat us out of earnings, while letting the scammers run free.

Online TimothyEllis

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 05:55:01 PM »
There's not a way to disable it anymore. In fact, Amazon is giving me an error message every time I try to upload an epub file with an SVG in it to disable page flip. Amazon replied to my inquiries confirming that they are NOT paying us for any pages read in page flip mode, and they have no plans to start paying for it. I begged them to please disable page flip on my books and they said no. Even after I told them that I have readers using the Kindle app on Ipads who say they read all my books in page flip mode, Amazon still says they won't pay us for these pages read.

I assume it'll only get worse in 2018 and they'll only find more ways to cheat us out of earnings, while letting the scammers run free.

This.

Page Flip is a worse problem than anyone realizes.

Cheat is the correct word, and so is scam. Its a deliberate attack on authors to reduce the number of pages they pay out on. And the worst part of it is, in going into KU, you agree to allow Amazon to scam you.


Offline she-la-ti-da

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 10:32:05 PM »
It makes no sense that they would pay scammers, but not us. I mean, I'm making very little in KU, so that would be like tripping over an atom while ignoring the mountain beside it. Even someone who's making a lot in KU isn't pulling in what some scammers are.
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Online TimothyEllis

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 12:34:56 AM »
It makes no sense that they would pay scammers, but not us. I mean, I'm making very little in KU, so that would be like tripping over an atom while ignoring the mountain beside it. Even someone who's making a lot in KU isn't pulling in what some scammers are.

Scammers DON'T use page flip !!!!!!!!!
As soon as page flip became an issue, they would simply avoid using it. Sure it takes a little longer to flip a book in normal mode, but getting paid is getting paid, you do what you have to do. Amazon dont appear to care if they pay us, or pay scammers. They set a pot, and they pay out of it. Who gets what out of it, isn't something which concerns them.

And lets face it. KU IS A SCAM in itself, so why should Amazon care if scammers are the ones being paid the most.

Offline Lydniz

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 01:13:46 AM »
I think the consensus is that Amazon wants pageflip enabled, so disabling it doesn't last for very long no matter what you do. As to the question of it being fixed for page counting, there's still quite a bit of debate. Some people say yes, some say no.

It isn't fixed for page counting as far as I know. Amazon have always said they have no intention of doing that since nobody reads that way.

Offline loraininflorida

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 01:21:39 AM »
Yeah, their initial excuse was that Page Flip was only for reading reference books. Now they are advertising it/urging people to read in it, on the very first page of the latest Fifty Shades book. 

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2018, 02:02:02 AM »
It isn't fixed for page counting as far as I know. Amazon have always said they have no intention of doing that since nobody reads that way.

And that's the lie.

Amazon say no-one reads that way. And yet, I found 12% of a survey who said they read using page flip all the time, or dont exit it if it activates. And even more who return to the beginning of the book before closing, using page flip to do it, thus wiping the reads away.

Amazon MUST know this. So their position is a lie.

Edit: Amazon being honest, would be turning off page flip for all books in KU.

Offline Mylius Fox

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2018, 03:49:20 AM »
Edit: Amazon being honest, would be turning off page flip for all books in KU.

Or installing a simple clock mechanism to log how much time it takes before each page is flipped. That's the baffling thing here; it's not like they have gigantic technological hurdles to overcome to compensate its authors fairly.

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2018, 03:58:13 AM »
Or installing a simple clock mechanism to log how much time it takes before each page is flipped. That's the baffling thing here; it's not like they have gigantic technological hurdles to overcome to compensate its authors fairly.

Exactly.

Essentially it means they dont want to.

Page Flip was the 2nd 30% reduction in author earnings. Now waiting for the next one.

Offline Lydniz

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 04:01:41 AM »
And that's the lie.

Amazon say no-one reads that way. And yet, I found 12% of a survey who said they read using page flip all the time, or dont exit it if it activates. And even more who return to the beginning of the book before closing, using page flip to do it, thus wiping the reads away.

Amazon MUST know this. So their position is a lie.

Edit: Amazon being honest, would be turning off page flip for all books in KU.

I know it's not true. I like to read in page flip myself. But as a reader I wouldn't want Amazon to turn it off for KU books either.

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 04:19:47 AM »
I know it's not true. I like to read in page flip myself. But as a reader I wouldn't want Amazon to turn it off for KU books either.

So why dont they just fix it so we get paid however a reader reads?


Offline Lydniz

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2018, 04:20:42 AM »
So why dont they just fix it so we get paid however a reader reads?

This is a good question. But we don't, so we just have to roll with it.

Online TimothyEllis

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2018, 04:27:45 AM »
This is a good question. But we don't, so we just have to roll with it.

Yep. Rolled on out.  :D

And it did leave a lot of unhappy KU readers behind.

If Amazon want me back, all they have to do is fix page flip. Alas, they dont care.

Offline loraininflorida

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 05:21:14 AM »
So why dont they just fix it so we get paid however a reader reads?

Because it is operating exactly as Amazon intended and designed?

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2018, 05:26:46 AM »
Because it is operating exactly as Amazon intended and designed?

That's my point.

And I call it SCAM.  ;D (beating a dead horse, yes I know.)

Offline thevoiceofone

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 05:56:22 AM »
OH god we aren't back to this discussion again?  It's so 1980s. Get over it.


Online Shelley K

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 11:05:30 AM »
As long as Amazon wants PageFlip, there's going to be PageFlip. And because every workaround that disables it stops working after a while, I think time spent trying to disable it is wasted time that'd be better spent writing or working on other things. And there's always the option to leave KU. Outside that, you're stuck with it.

Offline Guy Riessen

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 11:52:25 AM »
Scammers DON'T use page flip !!!!!!!!!


And lets face it. KU IS A SCAM in itself, so why should Amazon care if scammers are the ones being paid the most.

Well, that's easy--because scammers hurt the customer experience. If you have customers that are p*ssed because they bought a top book on Amazon and its junk, that definitely does not make Amazon happy. They are paying out large sums of money to people who are causing them to lose customers. Amazon wants to be rid of them, but can't seem to figure out a way to do so yet.

OTOH, why don't they pay for page flip? Because trad publishers haven't sued them yet, and authors aren't leaving in large enough droves to force them to change. They started out not paying for it, it doesn't hurt their customer base, so why pay for it--that would be a bizarre move in the business world. At the point where profit projections begin to look imperiled because the rate that authors leave the platform becomes steep enough, they'll adjust to stem the burn rate. We saw this with the December payout rate...I can almost guarantee the rate of program exit exceeded their comfort zone. They have both levers to play with--pay out and page flip--and play they will.

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Offline Tilly

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2018, 12:39:34 PM »
OTOH, why don't they pay for page flip? Because trad publishers haven't sued them yet...

Trad books that are in KU aren't paid per page read, nor (I believe) are they paid from the KU pot. Trad authors have an entirely seperate deal which I understand is still paid per borrow.

Offline GeneDoucette

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 12:45:59 PM »
Trad books that are in KU aren't paid per page read, nor (I believe) are they paid from the KU pot. Trad authors have an entirely seperate deal which I understand is still paid per borrow.

This is correct. Publishers have separate arrangements. It's not "borrow = full price buy", though, in most cases.

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 09:43:25 AM »
IMO they're stuck in a catch-22. They finally closed the "skip to the end and get all the page reads" issue on most devices. So, on most devices now you cant just slide the slider on the bottom of the book all the way to the end and get paid for all your pages without actually reading them all. Neither can you jump to the end by linking and get paid for all the pages.

If Zon made it so reading in page flip mode counted pages- we'd be right back to being able to flick to the end and get paid without reading the pages again. As soon as they started counting pages 'flipped' we'd all be griping about how you can flip to the end and get paid again.

Offline Bill Hiatt

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2018, 10:42:28 AM »
IMO they're stuck in a catch-22. They finally closed the "skip to the end and get all the page reads" issue on most devices. So, on most devices now you cant just slide the slider on the bottom of the book all the way to the end and get paid for all your pages without actually reading them all. Neither can you jump to the end by linking and get paid for all the pages.

If Zon made it so reading in page flip mode counted pages- we'd be right back to being able to flick to the end and get paid without reading the pages again. As soon as they started counting pages 'flipped' we'd all be griping about how you can flip to the end and get paid again.
Agreed. What Amazon needs to do is design a way for pages read to count in page flip read sequentially at normal speed. Sure, a correctly programmed bot could page through using page flip, but a correctly programmed bot can flip the pages in normal mode and still get a full payout, so Amazon at least wouldn't be making the situation any worse.

A potentially more complicated alternative would be to disable page flip when a reader is reading a book through the KU subscription. I'm not a programmer, but I would think that could be accomplished by serving a slightly different copy to KU subscribers. Clunky, but doable.


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Offline Atlantisatheart

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Re: How to disable Page Flip in 2018? Is it even possible?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2018, 10:58:23 AM »
If they fixed page flip then the payout per pot would be so low that everyone would run screaming for the exit. Everything they have done to this point, be it the three reductions that we've had in page counts, page flip etc, has been to keep the pot down and payout within certain parameters. They are stealing from us to pay us and it's ongoing, as in, they keep tinkering to see how low we'll go before we bail and can they get enough new authors in KU in the meantime to replace us.

We did it to ourselves and I can't see a way out until another big player gets a chunk of amazon's ebook business, but then the exodus will be unprecedented because who doesn't want to tell Jeff to do-one?

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