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Amazon going the way of B&N?

4K views 42 replies 34 participants last post by  C. Gockel 
#1 ·
So I was looking at Also-Bots on Elephant and Piggie last night (because it's how I find books for my daughter) and saw this:



Four tiny little also-bots. And then there are two rows of Sponsored Ads under the original product. You have to scroll down below the reviews to see the also-bots. B&N wasn't in the business of selling books before it went under, it was in the business of selling SHELF SPACE. Which is exactly what Amazon is doing now.

... I guess things like this are why Indy bookstores are seeing a renaissance ... the question for indies like me may be, how do I get into an Indy Bookstore?

Anywho, will be interesting to see how this turns out.
 
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#3 ·
I was thinking the same thing. Speaking as a reader, I used to love browsing Amazon for new books. Now, it's just exhausting with all the advertising clutter. Plus, pushing down the "also boughts" seems like a real mistake, because that was the best way to find books suited to my taste.

It seems to me that Amazon is leaving the door open for someone to swoop in and claim their market share. The only problem is that no one seems particularly inclined to do it. 
 
#4 ·
I think the biggest misconception many writers have is that Amazon is a bookstore, or an e-book store, when books and e-books are a very small segment of Amazon's business. Comparing Barnes and Noble, a business that focuses on selling books, with Amazon, a company that sells books but not as a primary concern, is like comparing AutoZone with Walmart, because both sell windshield wipers and spark plugs.

Amazon is interested in making the most profit. Not the most profit from books, not the most profit from item X, but the most profit overall. They are constantly changing their site to test for ways that increase profit. The changes noted will stay around if it makes Amazon more profit. The changes will not stay if it does not make Amazon more profit.
 
#5 ·
The "Frequently Bought Together" feature has been around for years, and actually is a compliment to your book (because it's frequently bought together with those other good sellers!).

And yes, Amazon has become a pain in the butt if all somebody wants to do is visit the site and buy something with very specific limits. This morning I went looking for running/swimming/gym shorts with a six-inch inseam, and I finally gave up. About fifty percent of the offerings on any given page are advertisements of one sort or another.

(And you know what else? Amazon is now blocking people who abuse its return policy. I hardly blame them, but it's another sign that the glory days are over. See the story in the Wall Street Journal this morning.)
 
#6 ·
MmmmmPie said:
It seems to me that Amazon is leaving the door open for someone to swoop in and claim their market share. The only problem is that no one seems particularly inclined to do it.
Selling shelf-space is ultimately bad for the customer experience. That said, I wonder how many of the innovations (such as also-boughts, One-click buying, etc) that Amazon pioneered are patented and therefore unavailable to other vendors? If Apple or Google wanted, could they come in with these same tools? Arguably, the patents are questionable -- but you might need some good lawyers.
 
#9 ·
MmmmmPie said:
I was thinking the same thing. Speaking as a reader, I used to love browsing Amazon for new books. Now, it's just exhausting with all the advertising clutter. Plus, pushing down the "also boughts" seems like a real mistake, because that was the best way to find books suited to my taste.
Yeah, I really think Amazon jumped the shark at some point in the last year or two. And not just with the ads/clutter, the number of third party sellers of counterfeit merchandise has gone through the roof. You have to be incredibly wary with all sorts of products nowadays.

Meanwhile, B&N, Kobo, Google, and Apple have almost no ads, load fast, and look clean. Back in 1999, that was what distinguished Amazon.
 
#11 ·
I don't get why people are up in arms about ads when they could simply install an ad blocker if they are that annoying. I never see ads with mine turned on.

I find it highly ironic and amusing that many people use AMS even though they hate the ads when they are browsing for items. I also fall into that category, obviously.
I'm with ya there. "Look at all these sponsored ads" yet "I sure hope everyone sees MY ad." You literally cannot have it both ways. I haven't found an ad blocker that blocks sponsored ads though, but I don't care. I'm capable of scrolling past them. It takes .05 seconds of my time to do so.

The "Frequently Bought Together" feature has been around for years, and actually is a compliment to your book (because it's frequently bought together with those other good sellers!).
The "frequently bought together" is something I've found helpful (we buy a lot of stuff on Amazon for our hobbies and our animals).
 
#12 ·
Content removed due to TOS Change of 2018. I do not agree to the terms.
 
G
#13 ·
Quote from Wilson Harp
Barnes and Noble, a business that focuses on selling books


I disagree.
Barnes and Noble lost its footing when it started focusing on non-book merchandise, like games and puzzles etc.
It became a coffee shop where folks could read the newest books while their kids safely entertained themselves with children's books.
 
#14 ·
Amazon were refused an EU patent for One Click as it was trying to patent the sanguineous obvious. The US patent has expired.

I wasn't aware that B&N had gone under except in the imagination of many kboards posters and a few excitable web authors.

In terms of Nook it was not a B&N policy, but Kindle Select that killed off B&N's then likely achieving an ebook duopoly with Amazon.
 
#15 ·
Mercia McMahon said:
Amazon were refused an EU patent for One Click as it was trying to patent the sanguineous obvious. The US patent has expired.

I wasn't aware that B&N had gone under except in the imagination of many kboards posters and a few excitable web authors.

In terms of Nook it was not a B&N policy, but Kindle Select that killed off B&N's then likely achieving an ebook duopoly with Amazon.
I disagree. Whatever's happening to B&N (and the other stores) is their own fault. They failed to innovate, and in some cases actively worked against indies by manipulating rankings, amongst other things. I remember the dirty tactics they used a few years ago. They finally caught up to them.
 
#16 ·
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#17 ·
Puddleduck said:
I use Brave browser (ad-blocker is built in), and it doesn't stop any Amazon ads (on Amazon's own sites). The 'sponsored products' listing must read differently than most ads. And while I did a brief trial run with AMS back before I started noticing how Amazon has gone ad-crazy, I don't use them now, nor do I intend to in the future. For various reasons. So ... not everyone who hates ads is a hypocrite.

And while we're on the subject, I have a Kindle Fire that I used to use a lot more. I barely ever use it now because at least once a day, it does a push notification that is an ad trying to sell me something. After I paid the extra fee to get the 'no ads' option. I don't get sleep screen ads, but these stupid notification-ads are even more annoying because it bugs me that I have a notification and then it's an ad. I contacted Amazon more than once about this and they refused to admit they were sending me ads after I paid extra not to see ads. They didn't even comprehend what I was talking about.

Also, every time I look at a book that's in KU, I get a big ol' popup screen trying to get me to subscribe to KU.

So yeah, in lots of different ways, Amazon has been working hard to drive me to other retailers.
I use Adguard which completely blocks sponsored ads. It has a little icon in the browser window that lets you turn off blocking for 30 seconds or make exceptions for certain websites. I started having to use blockers because web pages wanted to use those super annoying flashing banners and popups. It was either block those or no longer use the websites that had those type of ads because I can't think with those blaring in my face/eyes.
 
#18 ·
I'm using chrome with an adblocker. Underneath a book's blurb, I see the books in the series. Then a long row of also boughts. Then the sponsored products, the same size. Then the product details, then MORE sponsored products... then finally the reviews. Man. Reviews are pushed waaaay down the page.
 
#19 ·
As an author, I too hold my hand up at using AMS (although tbh, I just set an ad and run it and then never really update it so I'm not really using it effectively), yet hate the ads. 

As a reader, I've switched to Kobo and Google for my book purchases. Google when I have enough from their Rewards to buy a book I fancy, and Kobo when I'm spending my own cash. I will only buy a book on Amazon if it's a KU exclusive and I REALLY want it - which has happened ONCE in the last year.
 
#20 ·
I use an ad blocker (which tells me it's blocked 13 ads from this forum), but Amazon found a way to get the ads past that with the sponsored products thing. It's getting ridiculous.

I used to start my day by cruising around Pinterest. Then they started selling ad spots. Only a few, here and there, but now it's almost every other thing. They say they've been picked for me, but I have no interest in sexy lingerie and those fanny packs that look like beer bellies. Or any of the other stuff they insist is just what I need to complete my life. Now, I hardly ever go there, unless I'm following a link for something I've searched for -- and then 75% of the time, the link doesn't go where it says it will.
 
#21 ·
C. Gockel said:
(because it's how I find books for my daughter)
I 100% agree with you here. At the same time, you said it yourself -- there are customer benefits in these bots because they match up common complimentary purchases to increase customer satisfaction (and increase sales). There is a lot of data science at play here also, partner relationships, unique partner agreements, etc. And other cool features and partners at play. AKA one click patent order fulfillment optimization. Predicting what a customer will buy and influencing the purchase to occur faster... AKA the Buy Box. AKA MonsoonInc.

At the same time it's easy to see how Amazon wants to take it all over wherever possible (e.g. Amazon Basics, FBA). I heard an industry expert say, "you've got it all wrong about Amazon...they're not a retailer, not a cloud service...their true model is simpler. They choose existing business models and do them better than anyone. They're in the business of doing everyone's business better than they can do it."

It is an exciting thing to watch -- and a really awesome observation to share with this group because it affects customers, publishers, distributors, printers, and authors alike.
 
#23 ·
Lady Vine said:
I disagree. Whatever's happening to B&N (and the other stores) is their own fault. They failed to innovate, and in some cases actively worked against indies by manipulating rankings, amongst other things. I remember the dirty tactics they used a few years ago. They finally caught up to them.
Ah, the irony. Substitute the word "Amazon" where this comment now says "B&N" and we have the current reality. Every month Amazon rank their Amazon-published books at the top of the store before they've sold a single copy. They rank KU books that don't sell above non-KU books that do. Dirty tactics indeed!

There are so many excellent posts in this thread. After reading them certain trends seem clear, and I have a more hopeful view of the future. Thanks to the OP, and to all who contributed.
 
#24 ·
Amazon has always been about using data to try to make the shopping/buying experience simple and seamless. They want to present you with the thing that you are most interested and most ready to buy. They use your browsing history, but not just from their own site(s), to figure out what you're interested in that they can offer you. I agree that it's a shame that it clutters the online experience, especially as it relates to books. My recent experiences, however, have been primarily book-related. When I've browsed on Amazon, they keep showing me other books in the series that I've been reading and, of particular interest, is they show me when one of my favorite authors' books are on sale or free. That's been a pleasant experience. Other items, too, have popped up when they are on sale. All in all, not a bad experience for me.
 
#26 ·
Edward M. Grant said:
Bingo. Amazon used to be good at showing me things I might want to buy, based on what I'd bought and what other people who'd bought what I bought had also bought.

Now they're more concerned with showing me things that advertisers want me to buy, so they can make a few more bucks selling ads.

Yesterday I didn't see any also boughts at all on the book pages I looked at.

Jumped. The. Shark.
I wonder if this is true A/B testing, or whether they're continuing to show also-boughts to people who have a track record of using them very heavily. Maybe this is more about tailoring sales pages to the individual user than making a global change?

I ask because also-boughts still have never gone away, reduced, or moved down the page for me, and I really do use them all the time. It's my primary shopping technique, and not just for books.
 
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