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Poll

Are you getting out of KU?

Yes, I have requested Amazon to pull my books out early.
17 (11.7%)
Yes, I am waiting until the 90 days are up then I will not renew them.
39 (26.9%)
No, I can't leave KU since I make too much money from it.
30 (20.7%)
No, I love KU and would never leave.
13 (9%)
No, but I may pull some of my books out of KU.
24 (16.6%)
No, but I am nervous about KU and am undecided what to do?
22 (15.2%)

Total Members Voted: 145

Author Topic: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited  (Read 4540 times)  

Offline Sam Rivers

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Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« on: May 25, 2018, 09:44:53 AM »
There is dissatisfaction with KU because Amazon removed page reads that they claimed were illegal reads. Therefore, people have decided to leave KU or not renew their books. Other people are undecided but are nervous since they may be targeted too.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 11:32:52 AM by Sam Rivers »

Online Saboth

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 09:51:01 AM »
Needs to be another option: "I was perfectly happy in KU until Amazon forced me out over illicit page reads that I have no knowledge of or control over". I went with "pulled out early".
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 09:55:53 AM by Saboth »

Online Lorri Moulton

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 09:51:42 AM »
I would vote...I am concerned about some of the recent KU issues, but I am keeping romance books in and taking others wide.  This has given me the extra push/incentive to figure out how to 'go wide' and that's probably a good thing. :)

ETA: I don't make huge money either way, so that's not really a factor.  I like KU and think it's a good idea especially in certain situations.  I would like to see Amazon (if they don't already) have a way for nursing homes to have an affordable account, so everyone staying there could have access to KU books.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 09:54:42 AM by Lorri Moulton »

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Offline Gabriella West

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2018, 10:03:00 AM »
I'm leaving one little book in KU. I always planned to take the two out that renew in June. They had done fairly well in KU, but for the last ten days they suddenly hit a desert... No reads. So that helps me decide.

I know what will happen, though. Suddenly my sales will fall to a trickle. But the summer months are always horrible for me on Amazon anyway. I do better on the other platforms. So...

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Online Crystal_

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 10:08:38 AM »
"I can't leave KU. I make too much money" is the closest to my situation, but it's not quite so dire. I don't wish to leave KU. I'm not happy with everything about it, but, right now, it's the best choice for my career. I make my decisions pragmatically, not based on my personal feelings towards Amazon or KU.

Online Linn

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2018, 10:13:50 AM »
I don't make huge money either way, so that's not really a factor.

Same here. I'm nervously staying in for now because I get better read-through from borrows than I do from sales - @50% for sales, but better than 90% for borrows. And I would need better covers before I go wide. Five new covers ain't happenin' any time soon. But I hope to go wide with future releases.


Offline kw3000

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2018, 10:17:23 AM »
I don't like the idea that at any given moment my account could be threatened over activities in which I do not take part nor do I have any control over. For that reason alone I'm out at the end of my 90 days, and I'm staying out.

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Online boba1823

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2018, 10:34:14 AM »
I never went with KU in the first place because David Gaughran scared me.

Well.. and also because I couldn't see any way to fit the $1 per full read through (or whatever little amount it is for 60-70k books) into a sustainable business plan.

Offline L_Loryn

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2018, 10:44:32 AM »
KU is part of my "wide" business plan. I have a few books in KU and a few books out of KU. For my nonfiction, I don't mind it being in KU and they do okay in KU. I'm not getting rich off of my KU earnings, but it's also not enough to kill those earnings to go wide and wait 6 months for possible traction or have to pay for advertising.

My fiction is mostly out of KU, though I'm considering putting a stand-alone title in KU in the next few months. I started out with a "wide" business plan, so I'm not real worried about what happens with KU.

Offline AsianInspiration

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2018, 10:51:37 AM »
The way I see it, the more people that leave KU, the more lucrative it becomes. So just for that, I will go in (I only have 1 book out and that was from like 2 years ago, so it's more about entering rather than staying).

Plus, it seems that wide requires significantly more marketing, since you don't get so much algo love from phantom borrows, and other sites seem to not give so much algo love either. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

I might go wide after 90 or 180 days in KU, depending on how the books do. But definitely in KU at the start, cuz there doesn't seem to be a reasonable way for no-name authors to get visibility otherwise, without spending a ton of effort and/or money on marketing.

Online Lorri Moulton

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2018, 11:17:45 AM »
Same here. I'm nervously staying in for now because I get better read-through from borrows than I do from sales - @50% for sales, but better than 90% for borrows. And I would need better covers before I go wide. Five new covers ain't happenin' any time soon. But I hope to go wide with future releases.

Linn, I like your covers. :)

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Offline Puddleduck

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 11:25:32 AM »
I would like to see Amazon (if they don't already) have a way for nursing homes to have an affordable account, so everyone staying there could have access to KU books.

Interesting idea. Have you talked to any nursing homes about this? It sounds like it would be good, but I wonder if that's something elderly people would actually use. I offered my loaded Kindle to my grandma because I didn't need it anymore, but she didn't want it. Not sure most people of nursing home age would be interested in e-books in a quantity substantial enough to make a cheap KU program like that worth doing.

And I would need better covers before I go wide. Five new covers ain't happenin' any time soon.

FWIW, I think your first cover is really good and doesn't need to be replaced, assuming you could get the rest of the series to match. (Though I do find it odd to credit the cover artist on the front cover.)

Personally, I'm not in KU and don't have enough things published for it to really be much of a consideration yet. However, I would have considered either putting certain future books in KU (ones that fit the KU audience) or doing KU for a term before going wide. But now, with people getting banned for botting they have no control over and other such dangers, I see it as too great a risk to even try as a partial part of my business. If they do a massive overhaul of the way they treat authors and KU becomes less of a danger, maybe I'll incorporate some degree of KU into my future business, but as things stand now, no way. I can't risk my account over the potential for making some money through reads.

Online Lorri Moulton

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 11:32:47 AM »
Interesting idea. Have you talked to any nursing homes about this? It sounds like it would be good, but I wonder if that's something elderly people would actually use. I offered my loaded Kindle to my grandma because I didn't need it anymore, but she didn't want it. Not sure most people of nursing home age would be interested in e-books in a quantity substantial enough to make a cheap KU program like that worth doing.

Not everyone in a nursing home is older...some people are sent there for long term rehab.  And yes, older people do read ebooks. I've had people tell me the font size options alone got them to try it. :)

ETA:  It might be nice to encourage people to donate their e-readers, when they upgrade if the facility was onboard with it.  Just an idea.  I've spent a lot of time in nursing homes (never as a patient) but still...you don't always realize how much of a difference something can make until you see it for yourself.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 11:37:47 AM by Lorri Moulton »

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Offline Ryan W. Mueller

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 11:42:23 AM »
I'm staying in for now, but if I get the threatening email, I'm out.

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Offline danpadavona

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 11:55:52 AM »
I've already pulled five of my books from KU and gone wide. After what remains of the 90 days are up, I'll pull the others.

With that in mind, can someone point us toward the best threads for going wide?  8)


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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2018, 12:15:33 PM »
I'd already made the decision to go wide, back in January. The reasons I gave were the declining value of Select benefits like free days and countdowns, the declining returns (for me) from KU, and the new sudden death element. Here's what I wrote then:

Quote
In the olden days of... oh, eighteen months ago, a new release and a bit of low-cost promo brought a nice spike with a tail that lasted months. I could just write my books and put them out in the world for people to read, and as long as I kept my nose clean and stayed within the TOS, I'd be safe and what everyone else was doing didn't affect me. That's just not true any more. Amazon has increasingly been hitting authors with draconian punishments without any attempt to verify their misdemeanours, and no clear means of appeal. Books get pulled, accounts are closed down or threatened, ranks get stripped, and sometimes it seems almost random. For an author trying to make a living, it must be terrifying. Even for me, just hoping for a quiet life and a few extra bob each month, it's scary stuff.

That was in January, long before the latest horrors of account suspensions and terminations. I absolutely HATE being vulnerable when I haven't done anything wrong myself, and there's no process of appeal. I just want to write my books, put them out in the world for people to read and make a little bit of money along the way. If KU and Amazon make it impossible for me to do that, then I have no choice but to go wide. My epic fantasy series is already wide, and the first Regency series will go wide later this year. New books/series will start off in KU - unless and until I get a fake page reads nastygram, and then I shall be totally wide.

It's a shame, because I love the principle of KU. I'm a subscriber myself, and I really love the convenience of it. But for me as an author it's hanging by a thread at the moment.
   

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Online Linn

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2018, 12:25:24 PM »
Linn, I like your covers. :)

Thanks, Lorri.  :)

FWIW, I think your first cover is really good and doesn't need to be replaced, assuming you could get the rest of the series to match. (Though I do find it odd to credit the cover artist on the front cover.)

That was actually a part of our agreement, and in truth it doesn't bother me at all. I was more than pleased with the artwork he created, and am happy if I can direct some business his way. I think this particular artwork might be better utilized in other ways, though. As a cover, it doesn't seem to be as effective as I'd hoped.


Offline Puddleduck

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2018, 12:28:57 PM »
That was actually a part of our agreement, and in truth it doesn't bother me at all. I was more than pleased with the artwork he created, and am happy if I can direct some business his way. I think this particular artwork might be better utilized in other ways, though. As a cover, it doesn't seem to be as effective as I'd hoped.

He's probably not very experienced at doing cover art, then. It's customary to credit the cover artist in the interior of the book (usually in the copyright area). Wanting his name to be on the cover itself not only makes him look unprofessional, but you too. IMO. I'm kinda surprised the art isn't working, though, as I think the cover does look very nice. Maybe it's not hitting the genre the way it should (not my genre, so I wouldn't know).

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2018, 12:50:53 PM »
My leaving KU has nothing to do with account suspensions and everything to do with page reads drying up. It started in March and has been dropping steadily. If it weren't for a couple of cross-promos, I'd probably have nothing at all.

I'm taking my time and letting enrollment run out because I have a lot of books and I need to make a lot of changes before I go wide. I have four more books coming out in two days and I haven't updated all those that have come out in the past month or so.



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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2018, 01:46:57 PM »
Of my three pen names, one name has zero books in KU, another name has exactly one book in (and it's the best-selling one), and then I have a third name that I set up specifically for KU with a serial romance. I have two more books to publish to complete the series and some promotions I want to do (including bundling), but after that I will probably take them all out of KU and go completely wide. I'm glad I didn't have any promotions or new releases this month, with how weird KU has been lately. In March I think I was stripped of some pages, but I wasn't keeping track. I didn't get a letter, but that worries me.
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Offline Rosie Scott

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2018, 03:16:47 PM »
I picked "no, but I may pull some of my books out." I have had nothing but good luck with KU. It's 2/3 of my income. I haven't received any threatening emails or had page reads pulled.

In saying that, I am all too aware of the myriad of issues other people are having, and I've heard the horror stories. I'm not a "three strike and you're out" kind of person, once I'm burned I leave, and I leave for good. At this point, I'm just waiting for them to give me a reason. I'd like for things to stay as good as they are, but at the first sign of trouble, I'm out. I agree quite a bit with Crystal_ on this one; I will do what is best for my career. For now, that means staying in KU, but I have no undying loyalty to it.

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Online Dpock

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2018, 06:00:27 PM »
Interesting results so far. If two hundred more took the poll it could become meaningful. It would be nice if KBs could mail the poll to all the members.

If the same ratios held with 200 respondents, my guess is Amazon is noticing a big pull-out from KU.


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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2018, 07:44:57 PM »
Interesting results so far. If two hundred more took the poll it could become meaningful. It would be nice if KBs could mail the poll to all the members.

If the same ratios held with 200 respondents, my guess is Amazon is noticing a big pull-out from KU.


Change the thread title to indicate its a poll. The way it is now I assumed it was a rant.


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Online Going Incognito

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2018, 08:03:41 PM »
You've got current 'I am pulling out/staying in' options and future 'I'm gonna pull out/stay in' options, but you don't have any past 'I already did pull out and go wide' options.

Im an 'already have (recently, as in Jan/Feb) pulled out of KU, after being all in from day 1' person. (Minus a hissy fit pull out when the whole 'pages read in page flip mode aren't counted/paid' fiasco hit.)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 08:18:17 PM by Going Incognito »

Offline Joseph M. Erhardt

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2018, 08:07:19 PM »
I pulled the last of my works out of Select about Jan/Feb of 2017.  Amazon did something about September of 2016 that killed page reads for me.  Whether it was the Exit Point issue or the Page-Flip issue, or both, or something else, it was no longer worth it to me.  Considering the one-page reads I was getting, the royalties from one sale would be equivalent to 540 borrows.

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2018, 08:09:39 PM »
I pulled the last of my works out of Select about Jan/Feb of 2017.  Amazon did something about September of 2016 that killed page reads for me.  Whether it was the Exit Point issue or the Page-Flip issue, or both, or something else, it was no longer worth it to me.  Considering the one-page reads I was getting, the royalties from one sale would be equivalent to 540 borrows.


Same here, actually. But then I crawled back, only to leave again for good a few months ago.

Offline JRTomlin

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2018, 08:27:07 PM »
I had always done well in KU but then about 9 months ago my page reads started a long downward spiral. I can't identify the reason but it prompted my decision to look into going wide. Then all the account bannings started, many of them seeming unfair, and that did it. I have posted often enough about the difficulties of going wide. It certainly isn't easy but it is improving (slowly). I will have all my novels out before the end of the year.

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Offline David VanDyke

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2018, 10:37:40 PM »
Needs to be another choice: "I pulled out of KU went wide a while back."


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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2018, 10:57:58 PM »
Needs to be another choice: "I pulled out of KU went wide a while back."

Haha, and another option: "I haven't been in KU for years but will be trying it soon"

Offline jb1111

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2018, 11:32:31 PM »
I'm not in KU. I considered it with my latest book.

The retracted page reads do not bother me as much as the threats I have heard that were sent to certain authors.

That, to me, is similar to a store blaming its suppliers for things that are beyond the suppliers' control.

It would be different if the store had proof, evidence, that the supplier in question actually was up to questionable activity. And supplied the evidence.

For the time being, I'm not joining.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 05:37:49 AM by jb1111 »

Offline Simon Haynes

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2018, 11:37:14 PM »
Haha, and another option: "I haven't been in KU for years but will be trying it soon"


That applied to me in February this year. And now I'm out again.

One of my series consists of novels with 300-350 pages, priced at $4.99. A full read nets me approx $1.45 vs $3.50 in royalties from a sale. It just makes more sense to stay wide and go for sales, rather than restricting myself with KDP select and accepting less than half the royalties per book.

I'm also committed to a perma-free first title in that series, which means book 1 has to be wide ... but then wide readers couldn't access the rest of the series unless they bought from Amazon.

And to make things even more complicated, book 8 was launched wide and remained wide, because I didn't want to keep the new book from loyal readers who might not be Kindle users. So, KU readers could get from 1-7, then had to buy #8. Wide readers could only get 1 and 8. And my omnibus (books 1-3) couldn't be in KU because book one was wide!



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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2018, 11:37:31 PM »
"I can't leave KU. I make too much money" is the closest to my situation, but it's not quite so dire. I don't wish to leave KU. I'm not happy with everything about it, but, right now, it's the best choice for my career. I make my decisions pragmatically, not based on my personal feelings towards Amazon or KU.
Yep. I do what's easiest and makes me the most money. It's not personal. It's business. (As the man said.) I started publishing long before KU, and I expect KU to go away. Meanwhile, I'm banking the money against that day.

I write slowly, but my books are very long for their genre, most of my borrows are read through, and the books are pretty sticky. KU works well for me with minimal effort and always has. If it didn't, I'd leave.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 11:39:18 PM by Usedtoposthere »

Offline baldricko

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2018, 12:08:05 AM »
Yes, to echo two posts above, you need another option. As in been there, done that, and hallelujah, I saw the light.

I.e. "I've already gone wide."

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Offline Sam Rivers

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2018, 08:19:22 AM »
I set this poll up with no time length since I think we are at the beginning of what is happening with KU. I checked the box so people can change their mind if they want to due to their circumstances.

In early June Amazon will look at May page reads and started deleting those page reads that they think are illegal. Then they will send out e-mails to those people that are affected. Some people may lose their accounts at that point if they have been caught before. Regardless the people will be upset.

Therefore some more people may change their minds if they are unfairly treated and decide to get out of KU.

It would be pretty to think that Amazon would change what they are doing and stop treating people unfairly. However, I don't see that happening in the near future and this could become a normal event each month.

Offline ameliag

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2018, 08:25:44 AM »
I can't stand remaining stuck with just Amazon. I know Amazon is popular and all but there's other bookstores too. So I'm going to wait until July 1st (when my KU expires) so I can go wide and never come back. Besides, the 5 day freebie run is kinda pointless since most are "freebie chasers" who download at random (which happened to me on my recent freebie run.)

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2018, 09:42:55 AM »
I'm not in KU. I considered it with my latest book.

The retracted page reads do not bother me as much as the threats I have heard that were sent to certain authors.

That, to me, is similar to a store blaming its suppliers for things that are beyond the suppliers' control.

It would be different if the store had proof, evidence, that the supplier in question actually was up to questionable activity. And supplied the evidence.

For the time being, I'm not joining.

Good comparison. Is it my fault that people come into your store and shoplift my merchandise? Not at all. It's up to security to catch the thieves.



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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2018, 09:57:33 AM »
Good comparison. Is it my fault that people come into your store and shoplift my merchandise? Not at all. It's up to security to catch the thieves.

This!!!!

Where is that like button?   :D

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2018, 10:17:08 AM »
The quote below is why I left KU in the summer of 2016 and have not returned. I've been tempted a time or two to try it again but in the end, that is why I haven't.

I have one friend who quit writing because Amazon terminated her account and took away her earnings last year, all for nefarious things she did not do. I keep hearing similar stories, and I have no desire live with that kind of stress. My family depends on my book sales, so I can't take that kind of risk. Even with being wide, I get the occasional threat to take down a book - usually one that's in a multi-author set.

I don't like the idea that at any given moment my account could be threatened over activities in which I do not take part nor do I have any control over. For that reason alone I'm out at the end of my 90 days, and I'm staying out.
  

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2018, 11:21:51 AM »

Change the thread title to indicate its a poll. The way it is now I assumed it was a rant.

^this^

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Offline Jan Hurst-Nicholson

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2018, 11:34:07 AM »
I can't say that I 'love' KU. I am disappointed to say that I mistrust KU after proving that my page reads were not being counted when a reader read the book through and returned to the beginning before exiting. It's easy to read through a children's book in a short time, so I don't know how often this is happening. But I still prefer being in KU as it makes the books open to a wider audience who don't risk anything by trying them out.

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Offline HSh

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2018, 01:14:47 PM »
Interesting results so far. If two hundred more took the poll it could become meaningful. It would be nice if KBs could mail the poll to all the members.

If the same ratios held with 200 respondents, my guess is Amazon is noticing a big pull-out from KU.


There is no point voting in a poll that doesn't have an answer I can legitimately click. 


Needs to be another choice: "I pulled out of KU went wide a while back."


This poll is clearly only for people who are currently enrolled in KU.  It addresses only the latest kerfuffle. 

I think THAT should be reflected in the title.  This really isn't a poll for everyone and it would be less meaningful if people outside the specific subset did vote.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 01:22:33 PM by HSh »

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2018, 01:18:46 PM »
Quote from Stacy C
". . . took away her earnings last year . . .


This is why we should not let retailers hold onto our money.
Computers tell Amazon how many books have been sold at the end of the day.
We should get our money within 5 business days, or less.
If we did NOT make a mistake months ago, our earned (but unpaid) money should not be confiscated for something that happened today.


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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2018, 03:03:10 PM »
Quote from Stacy C
". . . took away her earnings last year . . .


This is why we should not let retailers hold onto our money.
Computers tell Amazon how many books have been sold at the end of the day.
We should get our money within 5 business days, or less.
If we did NOT make a mistake months ago, our earned (but unpaid) money should not be confiscated for something that happened today.

Amazon allows returns in seven days, so a five day payout wouldn't make sense.


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Offline juliatheswede

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2018, 03:45:47 PM »
I voted that I will let the 90-day subscription run out, then go wide. Which doesn't accurately depict my current situation. I went wide a while ago, but with my latest trilogy, I'm putting each book in KU for 90 days, then I go wide with that book and stay wide. This has worked well for me. I recommend it.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #44 on: May 26, 2018, 05:26:46 PM »
"I can't leave KU. I make too much money" is the closest to my situation, but it's not quite so dire. I don't wish to leave KU. I'm not happy with everything about it, but, right now, it's the best choice for my career. I make my decisions pragmatically, not based on my personal feelings towards Amazon or KU.

^This^

Your poll choices indicate a certain bias.

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Offline Sam Rivers

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2018, 07:05:34 PM »
Quote
Your poll choices indicate a certain bias.

What exactly is this bias?

Offline baldricko

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2018, 10:32:28 PM »
I can't stand remaining stuck with just Amazon. I know Amazon is popular and all but there's other bookstores too. So I'm going to wait until July 1st (when my KU expires) so I can go wide and never come back. Besides, the 5 day freebie run is kinda pointless since most are "freebie chasers" who download at random (which happened to me on my recent freebie run.)

You can pull out at any time. I don't know they would like you doing that. But, nevertheless Amazon allows you to pull out of KU before your contract period is up. Send them a request message. That worked for me, and I found them polite to the point of pleasant when I asked. I would imagine they do get regular requests.

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Offline Simon Haynes

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2018, 11:51:11 PM »
Is there any comeback to asking for a book to be removed from Select?


Long story cut short: I added one book in my series two weeks later than the rest. (oversight)  Now the others are wide but the first is locked up for another week. I don't mind emailing them, but I don't want a black mark against my name.

I mean, it's only a week, so I'm minded to just leave it to drop off by itself.


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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2018, 12:27:03 AM »
Is there any comeback to asking for a book to be removed from Select?


Long story cut short: I added one book in my series two weeks later than the rest. (oversight)  Now the others are wide but the first is locked up for another week. I don't mind emailing them, but I don't want a black mark against my name.

I mean, it's only a week, so I'm minded to just leave it to drop off by itself.

I've heard that there is some kind of notation/black mark, though I forget from where. But you know how 'I heard' goes on the internet. I'd play it safe, just in case, and wait the week.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 12:29:07 AM by Going Incognito »

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2018, 12:40:32 AM »
Is there any comeback to asking for a book to be removed from Select?


Long story cut short: I added one book in my series two weeks later than the rest. (oversight)  Now the others are wide but the first is locked up for another week. I don't mind emailing them, but I don't want a black mark against my name.

I mean, it's only a week, so I'm minded to just leave it to drop off by itself.

Since all of Amazon is run by bots, I very highly doubt it and I'd place that firmly in the "baseless rumour" category.

That said, it might not be worth the aggravation through stupid bot-generated emails. Personally, I'd just wait.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2018, 12:44:17 AM »
Since all of Amazon is run by bots, I very highly doubt it and I'd place that firmly in the "baseless rumour" category.

That said, it might not be worth the aggravation through stupid bot-generated emails. Personally, I'd just wait.

Lol, maybe that's why they blackmark (if they do.) They get irritated when the bots can't do it and have to flag down a real person. Said real person then marks the account as a troublemaker.  :P

Offline Sam Rivers

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2018, 08:44:34 AM »
I think writers liked being in KU  and were pleased with what they were earning. Then the KU administrators screwed it up by making a bad mistake. They deleted illegal page reads and threatened writers who had no control over what was happening. Writers responded by leaving KU and pulling their books. This affected readers since the library was reduced and their favorite authors were gone. So Amazons actions impacted both the writers and the readers negatively. It has no impact financially on Amazon.

A better solution would have been to go after the people that put the illegal page reads on the system and deleted their accounts so they couldn't do it again. Then Amazon could just ignore the illegal page reads and let the writer have them. These illegible transactions would have been spread out among the huge pool of writers so it would have had very little impact. There would have been no financial impact on Amazon.

Obviously Amazon didn't look this problem over carefully and consider the ramification of their actions. The solution was simple, but they made it complicated and created a lot of ill will.

Offline Amanda Abram

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2018, 09:07:10 AM »
For now, I'm making too much money in KU to pull my books out. Maybe someday, if I can manage to become more of an established author who has a following, I'll consider going wide, but so far, KU has been where it's at for me. My books are a little over 300 pages long and $2.99/$3.99 to buy, so I end up losing money if someone reads it in KU over just purchasing it. But as a new author, people are more likely to take a chance on me as part of their $10-a-month subscription than to spend $3 or $4 to just buy it. When I release a book, it seems to do quite well. Sales are good, but pages read are always way better. In fact, the number of pages read for my latest book got me on the KDP All-Star list for two months in a row, which will give me a nice little bonus total that would equal out to having to sell almost 500 extra copies of my book to equal that combined bonus.

Of course, I have no idea how my books would do wide until I actually try it, but for now, the genre that I write in (YA romance) seems to get a lot of KU action, and until that's no longer the case, I'll most likely stay exclusive.

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Offline katrina46

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2018, 09:33:58 AM »
The way I see it, the more people that leave KU, the more lucrative it becomes. So just for that, I will go in (I only have 1 book out and that was from like 2 years ago, so it's more about entering rather than staying).

Plus, it seems that wide requires significantly more marketing, since you don't get so much algo love from phantom borrows, and other sites seem to not give so much algo love either. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this point.

I might go wide after 90 or 180 days in KU, depending on how the books do. But definitely in KU at the start, cuz there doesn't seem to be a reasonable way for no-name authors to get visibility otherwise, without spending a ton of effort and/or money on marketing.
In my experience you're both right and wrong. It takes time to gain traction on other sites. They don't give algo love right away, but once you get it it's really sticky, whereas Amazon fluctuates a lot more.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2018, 03:08:15 PM »
Most surprising is the low number of "nervous" KU authors. Either they haven't been paying attention, don't care or for reasons that would be interesting to hear, feel immune to malicious bots that could cause suspension of their accounts.


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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2018, 03:21:11 PM »
Most surprising is the low number of "nervous" KU authors. Either they haven't been paying attention, don't care or for reasons that would be interesting to hear, feel immune to malicious bots that could cause suspension of their accounts.

One in three traffic accidents occur within a mile of the home. It's not something I worry about and I certainly don't feel immune to it. If I did, I'd never even drive to the grocery store.

It's the same with KU. I know I'm not immune to the malicious bots, but if I were making money through KU, I would stay in. I wouldn't let the fear keep me away from a source of income.

As my grandfather used to say, "If worry would pay the bills, we'd never go to work (or stay in KU). We'd just stay home and worry."


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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2018, 03:50:32 PM »
One in three traffic accidents occur within a mile of the home. It's not something I worry about and I certainly don't feel immune to it. If I did, I'd never even drive to the grocery store.

It's the same with KU. I know I'm not immune to the malicious bots, but if I were making money through KU, I would stay in. I wouldn't let the fear keep me away from a source of income.

As my grandfather used to say, "If worry would pay the bills, we'd never go to work (or stay in KU). We'd just stay home and worry."
Yep.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2018, 04:09:04 PM »
Most surprising is the low number of "nervous" KU authors. Either they haven't been paying attention, don't care or for reasons that would be interesting to hear, feel immune to malicious bots that could cause suspension of their accounts.

Well, I'm nervous but I wouldn't call myself undecided. So I refrained from voting because of the way it's worded.


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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2018, 04:26:57 PM »
Most surprising is the low number of "nervous" KU authors. Either they haven't been paying attention, don't care or for reasons that would be interesting to hear, feel immune to malicious bots that could cause suspension of their accounts.
Nobody I know who is legit has had their account permanently closed. Amazon is fighting spammers and legit people will be temporarily caught in the net. I do not expect them to pay me for illegitimate page reads. Why should they? I want them not to pay out for those reads. Not that they care what I want.

I have been doing this for a long time. Tradpub or indie, there is ALWAYS something. Unfairness. Glitches. Maddening rule changes. I have paid off all debt and have a very solid net worth. When I next have to change, I will grouse, but I am not going to go to a whole lot of effort and ad spend just in case. Everybody decides on their own business plan based on their own priorities. Does not make them stupid or uninformed.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 04:30:25 PM by Usedtoposthere »

Offline Puddleduck

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2018, 04:32:48 PM »
One in three traffic accidents occur within a mile of the home. It's not something I worry about and I certainly don't feel immune to it. If I did, I'd never even drive to the grocery store.

Not quite the same, in that you have some control over whether you will fall into that statistic. If you're a careful, safe, defensive driver, you will lower your chance of getting in a car accident compared to someone who isn't. Not eliminate it, of course, but you have some control. The thing that concerns people with the KU problems is that there's nothing we can do to avoid getting targeted by scammers and punished by Amazon. I agree that worrying doesn't do any good, but there's a risk assessment issue. A lot of us are looking at what's happening with KU and deciding that the potential benefit isn't worth the risk. Which I don't think requires any actual worrying to be done.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2018, 04:44:19 PM »
Not quite the same, in that you have some control over whether you will fall into that statistic. If you're a careful, safe, defensive driver, you will lower your chance of getting in a car accident compared to someone who isn't. Not eliminate it, of course, but you have some control. The thing that concerns people with the KU problems is that there's nothing we can do to avoid getting targeted by scammers and punished by Amazon. I agree that worrying doesn't do any good, but there's a risk assessment issue. A lot of us are looking at what's happening with KU and deciding that the potential benefit isn't worth the risk. Which I don't think requires any actual worrying to be done.
Perhaps you have not seen authors run around with their hair on fire as often as I have. Everything is the End of Days until it is not. This is not either. So far nothing has been. It is another change and potential challenge.

Offline Puddleduck

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2018, 05:30:31 PM »
Perhaps you have not seen authors run around with their hair on fire as often as I have. Everything is the End of Days until it is not. This is not either. So far nothing has been. It is another change and potential challenge.

Some people are worriers, sure. That doesn't mean that everyone who is staying out of KU (or leaving) because of all the recent problems is doing it out of worry or paranoia.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2018, 06:00:22 PM »
Not quite the same, in that you have some control over whether you will fall into that statistic. If you're a careful, safe, defensive driver, you will lower your chance of getting in a car accident compared to someone who isn't. Not eliminate it, of course, but you have some control. The thing that concerns people with the KU problems is that there's nothing we can do to avoid getting targeted by scammers and punished by Amazon. I agree that worrying doesn't do any good, but there's a risk assessment issue. A lot of us are looking at what's happening with KU and deciding that the potential benefit isn't worth the risk. Which I don't think requires any actual worrying to be done.

I was responding to the following and replaced "nervous" with "worry." Sorry my analogy wasn't spot on.


Most surprising is the low number of "nervous" KU authors. Either they haven't been paying attention, don't care or for reasons that would be interesting to hear, feel immune to malicious bots that could cause suspension of their accounts.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 06:58:37 PM by Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake' »


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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2018, 06:17:10 PM »
Some people are worriers, sure. That doesn't mean that everyone who is staying out of KU (or leaving) because of all the recent problems is doing it out of worry or paranoia.
No, I assume they are making a business decision based on an evaluation of their current situation and their individual priorities. As should we all. I have done all the things, myself. Trad. Indie. In Select and out. I do what works for me at the time. I am by nature pessimistic, but one thing I have learned is that most things are glitches, not disasters. Also that authors are different and books are different. There are no one size fits all answers.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2018, 06:20:08 PM by Usedtoposthere »

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2018, 12:49:39 AM »
Some people are worriers, sure. That doesn't mean that everyone who is staying out of KU (or leaving) because of all the recent problems is doing it out of worry or paranoia.

Worrying is creating a complete script of the outcome of a situation before it has happened, and then using the story to scare ourselves. Brahma Kumaris Shivani

Worry is a misuse of imagination. Dan Zadra

(I have to frequently remind myself of this  ::) )

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Offline Puddleduck

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2018, 10:15:50 AM »
Worry is a misuse of imagination. Dan Zadra

(I have to frequently remind myself of this  ::) )

Heh. I like that.  So true. :D

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2018, 07:40:59 PM »
I voted that I will let the 90-day subscription run out, then go wide. Which doesn't accurately depict my current situation. I went wide a while ago, but with my latest trilogy, I'm putting each book in KU for 90 days, then I go wide with that book and stay wide. This has worked well for me. I recommend it.


This is what I plan for my next series. But otherwise, all my books were pulled out Jan. 1

Offline Lisa5

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Re: Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #67 on: May 28, 2018, 09:36:46 PM »
Needs to be another option: "I was perfectly happy in KU until Amazon forced me out over illicit page reads that I have no knowledge of or control over". I went with "pulled out early".
There seems to be a real problem at the moment of innocent people getting caught up in Amazon's attempts to crack down on all the scammers. This is the result of trying to use bots for everything instead of giving real people jobs.

Offline Cannelle

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #68 on: May 28, 2018, 11:20:20 PM »
Makes up half of my royalties for my existing books. This did not translate into sales when I pulled my books out of it. I will stick with it for the time being.

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Offline SalomeGolding

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2018, 07:58:45 AM »
Im a relative newbie. I wouldnt even know where to start with going wide. There are already so many considerations when you add self-publishing to a life that contains full time work and family (including a baby). I really prefer to just use one platform. Maybe that makes me lazy, but that's all that I can handle for now.

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #70 on: May 30, 2018, 11:07:23 AM »
Of 138 respondents, 38.4% are bailing on KU. It's a small sample, but if percentages held across all KU authors, it would mean a significant cut in KU titles available over the next couple of months (I would think).



Offline joesmithx

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2018, 04:49:10 PM »
Of 138 respondents, 38.4% are bailing on KU. It's a small sample, but if percentages held across all KU authors, it would mean a significant cut in KU titles available over the next couple of months (I would think).

No it won't. The numbers will keep getting bigger. I know it's hard for Kboard members to believe, but the vast majority of authors have never even heard of Kboards, and will never visit. The ones here, who are always so loud about the evils of KU, are not high volume sellers and their "loss" won't make a dent in KU. NOT A DENT.

Sorry, but that's just the truth.

Online Dpock

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Re: Poll - Dissatisfaction with Kindle Unlimited
« Reply #72 on: May 30, 2018, 05:35:04 PM »
No it won't. The numbers will keep getting bigger. I know it's hard for Kboard members to believe, but the vast majority of authors have never even heard of Kboards, and will never visit. The ones here, who are always so loud about the evils of KU, are not high volume sellers and their "loss" won't make a dent in KU. NOT A DENT.

Sorry, but that's just the truth.

A few leaps there. I have no trouble believing many if not most of Amazon indies are unaware of KB. There are a few here in the $100k club who are withdrawing from KU after having their KENP reads cut, and their voices have been added to the chorus defaming KU. It's fair to assume that the high percentage here who received threatening emails from Amazon are but a fraction of all KU authors "out there" who received the same threats, and it's fair to assume they might react as many here are doing--withdrawing their titles from KU.

I do think these departures will represent more than a "dent". How much more I have no idea.