Author Topic: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED  (Read 47542 times)  

Online TimothyEllis

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #525 on: June 12, 2018, 09:08:57 PM »
Considering it's 2018, yeah, you almost have to be the last/only person on earth who still buys DVDs. Sorry.

Not the last. In the US perhaps.

In Australia, our internet is so bad, and so expensive, dvd's make a much better choice. Streaming works for those who watch something once, and not all that often. But for those like me who re-watch year after year, the download costs would be prohibitive. We dont get super fast cable. Even the new NBN is fiber optics grafted to copper wire, and a fraction of the speed it should be, not to mention it's taking forever to be completed.


I was in Miami last year, and the hotel wifi was about 100 times faster than our cable.

Until such time as the Australian cable system is taken out of the 19th century, its DVD's, Blue-rays, and 4K's which keep me entertained.

Offline Jeff Tanyard

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #526 on: June 12, 2018, 09:15:00 PM »
I bought a DVD just a couple of weeks ago.   8)
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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #527 on: June 12, 2018, 09:39:44 PM »
Chiming in with others...I still buy DVDs too, quite frequently, in fact.

Offline Confused Fairywren

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #528 on: June 12, 2018, 09:48:38 PM »
The next step won't be curbing maximum KENPC or prohibiting duplicate content, it will be disallowing any external links.

This is a chilling idea. That would curtail a lot of mailing list building. And unfortunately I think you're right that this would be Amazon's 'quick and easy' solution to things like the illegal lottery link.

Offline Betsy the Quilter

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #529 on: June 13, 2018, 03:36:03 AM »
Let's not turn this conversation into one about the lack of respect romance writers see for their genre.  That's a whole 'nother conversation that's been discussed (and shown) many times on these boards.  Respect each other and the genres they write in.  Posts may be edited or removed.

And let's drop the whole fake news thing...thanks.

PM me if you have an issue with the moderation of this thread so as to avoid derailing this thread.  Posts discussing the moderation will be removed without comment.

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« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:40:02 AM by Betsy the Quilter »
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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #530 on: June 13, 2018, 04:23:04 AM »
Writers will look at the books dominating the lists--if they think the writing is good, as in legit, there will not be any problems. If they think the writing is terrible they will say: "That book can't be ranked that high. They must have cheated."

Those books they view as 'inferior' will be believed to have been artificially boosted. (Click farmed or botted)

OK. What is the primary concern?

Stuffing? Fixed, right?

Bonus content? Problem solved, right?

Stuffed books unrightfully earning the bonus award?

Stuffed books taking the majority of the pot because of their size?

Stuffed books earning so much from a single read through?

Stuffed books stealing money from legitimate authors?

The page rate is about money. If money isn't or wasn't the major concern of stuffing, then what was?

Ethics? Morals? The TOS? Reader experience? Visibility?

If those were the concerns why are people already starting to gripe about collections?

It's all about money.

I don't know about you, but I can focus on more than one motivation for doing something. Of course it's about money. These people are raking it in and stopping legitimate books from achieving the payments they would normally get. They're hurting innocent authors by targeting them with their click farms, making their actions look more legit. This is costing people their accounts, making them think they're making more than they are, and causing huge amounts of stress worrying over getting the account back.

They're also offending my sense of morals, and apparently those of a lot of other people. YMMV But don't forget, when one defends the indefensible, one might come out covered in the same... blanket.

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During a period when reviews were being blocked due to a glitch, Chance panicked and broke the law. What happened to Chance wasn't about book stuffing. What happened to Chance was about the things people do when they panic.

Seriously? Panic over a temporary glitch to the point of breaking Federal law? He's been around Amazon long enough to know these things happen. You don't start cheating and scheming over something that will be fixed in a few days. Besides, from all I've seen, this is something he's been working for a while, he just got bolder because Amazon didn't stop him. I thought I'd heard every possible defense of this behavior. Now I know it only gets worse.
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Offline dgaughran

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #531 on: June 13, 2018, 04:37:00 AM »
Seriously? Panic over a temporary glitch to the point of breaking Federal law? He's been around Amazon long enough to know these things happen. You don't start cheating and scheming over something that will be fixed in a few days. Besides, from all I've seen, this is something he's been working for a while, he just got bolder because Amazon didn't stop him. I thought I'd heard every possible defense of this behavior. Now I know it only gets worse.

I have evidence that Chance Carter repeatedly broke the rules against review manipulation. This was no one off, it was a permanent part of his approach to "marketing."
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Offline MissingAlaska

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #532 on: June 13, 2018, 04:43:19 AM »
Not the last. In the US perhaps.

In Australia, our internet is so bad, and so expensive,

I'm in the US and still use DVDs. I live in a rural area and rely on a cellphone connection for internet. While I am able to stream video, it eats up data pretty quickly.  A large percentage of the rural US has ZERO access to true broadband. People often forget that.

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Offline T. M. Bilderback

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #533 on: June 13, 2018, 05:33:05 AM »
I still buy DVDs and Blu-ray discs.  I love being able to own full collections of certain movies and stars.  I can watch them when I want to watch them, and I don't have to worry about being in the middle of a season of a TV show and having it withdrawn before I'm finished (Hear that, Netflix?)

Case in point: The X-Files.  I had seen every episode at least twice, but my wife had never watched it with regularity.  We began the first season, and Netflix discontinued.  I would up buying the complete series on Blu-ray.  Loved it!

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Offline Betsy the Quilter

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #534 on: June 13, 2018, 05:38:41 AM »
A friendly reminder that this thread is not about DVD sales, thanks.  Though that would be a great discussion in Not Quite Kindle.
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Offline Ava Glass

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #535 on: June 13, 2018, 03:36:37 PM »
More news stories. This is why talking is so important.

Not surprisingly, Amazon didn't respond to Inc's request for comment.

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/amazon-book-stuffing-authors-scam-chance-carter-romance-kindle-unlimited.html

Quote
The most intelligent suggestion I've seen is to cap the payout per book at the (non-Unlimited) price of the book. There is no other situation--not even on Amazon--where authors take in 100 percent of what readers pay for a book. So it's particularly absurd to have an author make $13.50 when someone reads a book that they paid 99 cents for.

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #536 on: June 13, 2018, 03:52:44 PM »
More news stories. This is why talking is so important.

Not surprisingly, Amazon didn't respond to Inc's request for comment.

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/amazon-book-stuffing-authors-scam-chance-carter-romance-kindle-unlimited.html


Well first, it isn't that difficult to get a profile on Inc. This isn't a magazine where they should be a fact checker and an editor checking on sources. This is essentially no different than Huff Post. If I ran a business, I wouldn't comment for an Inc "author" either. Having the ability to post on any of those sites is not an assumption of authority. It's a self ascribed status, not achieved and not given.

Also, the idea that the removal of the books is because of the bonus books had been demonstrably shown to not be likely at all. First, the tos says as long as the duplicate content is correctly labeled, they're okay with it. Books advertised as single title books cannot exceed 10% bonus content and Amazon has given authors time to update their books.

Correlation doesn't mean Causation. Just because this happened when the notices came out about bonus books doesn't mean bonus books caused the removal of the catalog. The books were likely removed because of the illegal lottery, potential review manipulation, and incentivized reviews.

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #537 on: June 13, 2018, 04:32:14 PM »
I have evidence that Chance Carter repeatedly broke the rules against review manipulation. This was no one off, it was a permanent part of his approach to "marketing."

That's my understanding of how he's been working. He's not the only one, just the one who got caught doing illegal things, not just acting against TOS.
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Offline David VanDyke

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #538 on: June 13, 2018, 04:44:34 PM »
That's my understanding of how he's been working. He's not the only one, just the one who got caught doing illegal things, not just acting against TOS.

If Amazon really wants to make an example of someone like CC, they could report him to all 50 states' attorneys-general, as well as the feds, and lobby to get them to take action. Depending on the laws, he could be viewed as running an illegal lottery in all 50 states, and even other countries too, perhaps.


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Offline Ava Glass

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #539 on: June 13, 2018, 07:38:50 PM »
Well first, it isn't that difficult to get a profile on Inc. This isn't a magazine where they should be a fact checker and an editor checking on sources. This is essentially no different than Huff Post. If I ran a business, I wouldn't comment for an Inc "author" either. Having the ability to post on any of those sites is not an assumption of authority. It's a self ascribed status, not achieved and not given.

Also, the idea that the removal of the books is because of the bonus books had been demonstrably shown to not be likely at all. First, the tos says as long as the duplicate content is correctly labeled, they're okay with it. Books advertised as single title books cannot exceed 10% bonus content and Amazon has given authors time to update their books.

Correlation doesn't mean Causation. Just because this happened when the notices came out about bonus books doesn't mean bonus books caused the removal of the catalog. The books were likely removed because of the illegal lottery, potential review manipulation, and incentivized reviews.

Inc isn't Medium. "Create your profile" isn't for writers, but businesses. This is the staff:

https://www.inc.com/staff/a/h

Also, nowhere does the article state Carter was booted for stuffing. The article in fact says that Amazon's exact reasons for booting Carter are unknown.

ETA: and I happen to think reporters bugging Amazon about this is a good thing. May there be more.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:53:36 PM by Ava Glass »

Offline BGArcher

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #540 on: June 14, 2018, 08:20:28 PM »
Chiming in with others...I still buy DVDs too, quite frequently, in fact.

If I truly love the content I buy it on blu ray/digital/4k/dvd package that I like. Yes, streaming works most of the time, but when it doesn't, I want to be able to access great films and shows. I will say since Netflix Hulu Amazon I will now buy way less shows. Movies though I still like to have a physical copy of.

Offline Phxsundog

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #541 on: June 14, 2018, 09:16:47 PM »
Just heard more authors are getting emails from Amazon asking them to remove bonus content in five days or books will be taken off sale. One person received notice for a clearly labeled boxed set. Hard to believe collections and compilations will be allowed. We'll find out next week when the purge starts.

Online MmmmmPie

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #542 on: June 14, 2018, 09:40:17 PM »
Just heard more authors are getting emails from Amazon asking them to remove bonus content in five days or books will be taken off sale. One person received notice for a clearly labeled boxed set. Hard to believe collections and compilations will be allowed. We'll find out next week when the purge starts.

That's great to hear. I hate to get my hopes up, but this is the most encouraging news we've had in a while. I can't help but wonder how much of this stems from bad publicity.

Offline Ava Glass

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #543 on: June 14, 2018, 10:33:29 PM »
Hard to believe collections and compilations will be allowed.

Allowed in KU or KDP?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 10:54:15 PM by Ava Glass »

Offline Phxsundog

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #544 on: June 14, 2018, 11:02:27 PM »
Allowed in KU or KDP?

KU I think. Soon we'll know for sure or if this is just a one off.

Offline Ava Glass

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #545 on: June 14, 2018, 11:27:21 PM »
KU I think. Soon we'll know for sure or if this is just a one off.

Potential dates for KU announcements: June 15, July 1 (June 29 or July 2 this year), July 15 (14 this year), Aug 1.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:29:21 PM by Ava Glass »

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #546 on: June 15, 2018, 08:06:06 AM »
If they say no more collections/bundles/compilations/box sets in KU, I will gladly remove mine. If it will help to drain the swamp, no problem. If they're still allowing stuffed books, click farms and paid reviews, then I'll not be a happy camper. I suspect it will be the latter reaction. Prove me wrong, Amazon.
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Online TimothyEllis

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #547 on: June 15, 2018, 08:11:40 AM »
If they say no more collections/bundles/compilations/box sets in KU, I will gladly remove mine. If it will help to drain the swamp, no problem. If they're still allowing stuffed books, click farms and paid reviews, then I'll not be a happy camper. I suspect it will be the latter reaction. Prove me wrong, Amazon.

#ProvemewrongAmazon

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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #548 on: June 15, 2018, 09:36:34 AM »
If they say no more collections/bundles/compilations/box sets in KU, I will gladly remove mine. If it will help to drain the swamp, no problem. If they're still allowing stuffed books, click farms and paid reviews, then I'll not be a happy camper. I suspect it will be the latter reaction. Prove me wrong, Amazon.
Amazon isn't known for its consistency. That said, if they're expanding the "no more than 10% bonus content" restriction to prohibit compilations and collections, they might actually be able to do that consistently. Even bots could be fairly good at weeding out box sets and compilations, and excess bonus content (the exceptions being things that are grossly mislabeled). If Amazon is willing invest a little human effort in weeding those out, the system could actually be fairly evenly administered. In the beginning, books would probably have to be reported for mislabeling, but cleanup could still be relatively rapid.

Amazon doesn't actually allow click farms or paid reviews. It just isn't very good at differentiated real activity from fake activity, as we know from the people who get hit with false positives while obvious scammers don't get hit. I'll predict getting rid of click farms in particular is going to be a long process.

I see some hope, though, in the fact that Amazon is pursuing bonus content with some degree of vigor. At times in the past, there's been a high profile strike or two when an issue came up, and then activity more or less ceased--more keeping up appearances than changing the underlying reality. With so many authors getting notices, it appears to me that this time might be different. Of course, only time will tell...



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Re: Amazon Actions re NEW Bonus Content Limits -- threads MERGED
« Reply #549 on: June 15, 2018, 11:36:36 AM »
Just heard more authors are getting emails from Amazon asking them to remove bonus content in five days or books will be taken off sale. One person received notice for a clearly labeled boxed set. Hard to believe collections and compilations will be allowed. We'll find out next week when the purge starts.

Can anyone else confirm this? I haven't been able to. Not questioning Phxsundog--just wondering if others can chime in.