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A ruthless murder and a stolen shipment of gold.

At school, sixteen-year-old Nikaia Wales endures the taunts of bullies who call her a “half-breed.” At home, she worries about how her family will react if she reveals her growing feelings for the quiet boy next door.

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Author Topic: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End  (Read 10477 times)  

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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I'm heading out on vacation tomorrow, so I hope you don't mind if I post early.  I didn't want to take a chance on not being able to get online. 

We'll start reading Voyager on 4/20, and I'll post the chapters then.

So, it's the end of Dragonfly in Amber.  I think I used up all the Kleenex on this one.  Here we go.  Crying is definitely allowed.

Chapter 43

1. Discuss your reaction to the scene where the retreating men enter Claire's sanctuary in the church.

2. How did you feel when Jamie and Claire were reunited in the church?

3. Was Dougal right to hasten Rupert's demise?  How did you feel when Jamie put Dougal into Claires arms?

4. What did you think of the plan to use Claire to negotiate the retreat of the MacKenzies?

Chapter 44

1. Were you surprised when Claire ran into Mary Hawkins at the house she was taken to?

2. Were you surprised at the reappearance of the Duke of Sandringham?

3. Were you surprised that Sandringham revealed his duplicity to Claire?

4. How did you feel when you learned the fate of Hugh Munro?

5. What did you think of the scene where Jamie slipped into bed with Claire (and Mary) and got a little surprise?

6. What were your impressions of their escape from Sandringham's house?

7. What was your reaction when Munro's widow pulled Sandringham's head out of a bag?

Chapter 45

1. At what point did you say .. Aha!  I knew I was right!!

2. Did Claire ask too much by taking Jamie with her to Alex Randall's quarters?

3. How did you feel about Alex's Randall's last scene?

Chapter 46 - Timor Mortis Conturbat Me

1. How did you feel knowing that Jamie and Claire were on the road to Culloden despite their efforts to stop it all?

2. If Jamie had let Claire kill Charles like she wanted to, do you think would they have been able to be together?

3. What do you think Dougal said to Jamie before Jamie killed him?  Did it shock you that Jamie killed Dougal?

4. How did you feel when Jamie put Fergus on Donas and sent him to Jenny with the Deed of Sasine?

5. Jamie and Claire's last night together...how was it for you?

6. Did you want Claire to go back through the stones?

Part Seven-- Dragonfly in Amber

"Hindsight"
Chapter 47 - Loose Ends

1. What is your opinion of Brianna's reaction?

2. Did Claire give Brianna enough proof?

3. Did Claire do the right thing in telling Roger of his relation to Geillis?

Chapter 48 - Witch Hunt

1. Should they have gone after Gillian Edgars?

2. Why do you think Claire did not tell Brianna about Rogers connection to Geillie?

Chapter 49 - Blessed Are Those

1. What did you think of Geillis' passage scene at Craigh Na Dun?

2. What did you think of the ending of the book?


Dragonfly Wrap Up

1. What are your thoughts on Dianas moving back and forth between the 1900s and the 1700s.

2. Talk about your impressions of Roger in the beginning versus the end of the book.

3. Where does Claire seem more confident, in the 1900s or 1700s, why?

4. Which scene did you find the most humor in?

5. Yes, tears flow freely throughout this book, but which scene moved you the most?

6. Do you think Claires medical experiences during the 1700s initiated her desire to be a doctor or  did she already have that desire?

7. Now that we think Jamie survived Culloden, what do you think Claire is feeling? (No Spoilers,  please)

8. What do you think Brianna was feeling when she realized Claire was telling the truth?

9. Claire has loved Jamie for 20 years.  Has her love mellowed or grown stronger with time?




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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 04:28:05 PM »
Chapter 43

1. Discuss your reaction to the scene where the retreating men enter Claire's sanctuary in the church.


The battle must be going very badly for Dougal and the MacKenzies to be on the run. 

2. How did you feel when Jamie and Claire were reunited in the church?

He always finds her, doesnt he.  Yes, he knew where she would be, although with Claire thats not always a given, but he got to her through enemy lines. 

3. Was Dougal right to hasten Rupert's demise?  How did you feel when Jamie put Dougal into Claires arms?

Rupert had it right.  It was easier for him than Dougal.  We saw a foreshadowing of this scene when Dougal let Geordie bleed to death after he was gored by the wild boar.  We know hes capable of that kind of compassion and strength. 

Jamie always seems to know the right thing to do.  Dougal was, after all, his foster father, and the man was grieving.  He gave Dougal the only comfort he knew. 

4. What did you think of the plan to use Claire to negotiate the retreat of the MacKenzies?

Okay, they were heavily outnumbered and had no other way to get out of the situation, but ...  The plan worked, at least.  Claire must have felt so alone when Jamie walked away.  Jamie must have felt like he left his heart behind. 

Chapter 44

1. Were you surprised when Claire ran into Mary Hawkins at the house she was taken to?


She just keeps popping up.  Shes obviously pivotal to the story because we know shes Franks ancestor. 

2. Were you surprised at the reappearance of the Duke of Sandringham?

Not really.  I did think it would be either Sandringham or Jack Randall. 

3. Were you surprised that Sandringham revealed his duplicity to Claire?

He has no intention of letting Claire go, and also figures his position will save him.  What did he really reveal beyond the fact that he sent Danton after Claire.  We still dont know if he was a secret Jacobite or if he was doing every thing he could to ferret out the Jacobites and lure Charles into a trap. 

4. How did you feel when you learned the fate of Hugh Munro?

Appalled, absolutely appalled. 

5. What did you think of the scene where Jamie slipped into bed with Claire (and Mary) and got a little surprise?

Poor Jamie.  Hes always getting kicked, bitten, scratched, slapped.  Lets give Mary some credit for defending herself, and then making the bold decision to go with Jamie and Claire

6. What were your impressions of their escape from Sandringham's house?

Danton got his, didnt he.  I was very surprised that they didnt get stopped.  They made enough noise to wake King George in London. 

7. What was your reaction when Munro's widow pulled Sandringham's head out of the bag and Murtaghs speech?

I fully expected it to be Dantons head, but Murtagh was right.  Sandringham ordered the attack.  He must have known that.  Claire and Mary have been avenged and his honor has been restored. 

Chapter 45

1. At what point did you say .. Aha!  I knew I was right!!


As soon as I knew that Mary was pregnant.  I certainly suspected before that. 

2. Did Claire ask too much by taking Jamie with her to Alex Randall's quarters?

I think she risked a lot.  She had to know that Randall would show up.  I think she depends too much on Jamies strength at times. 

3. How did you feel about Alex's Randall's last scene?

He held himself together by sheer effort of will to see Mary safe. 

4.  How did you feel about Jamies compassionate treatment of Jack Randall?

Again, we saw a foreshadowing of this when he gave Dougal into Claires keeping when Rupert died.  I think having suffered so much himself, Jamie feels a responsibility to alleviate suffering in others. 

Chapter 46 - Timor Mortis Conturbat Me

1. How did you feel knowing that Jamie and Claire were on the road to Culloden despite their efforts to stop it all?


This was the point where I started crying. 

2. If Jamie had let Claire kill Charles like she wanted to, do you think would they have been able to be together?

No.  Jamie was already guilty of treason, now they would both be guilty of murder.  Even though Charles isnt a king, hes still royalty, and regicide would be punished severely.

3. What do you think Dougal said to Jamie before Jamie killed him?  Did it shock you that Jamie killed Dougal?

I think Dougal was continuing to warn Jamie about Claire, and damning him for allowing the witch to corrupt him. 

Yes, it shocked me to the core. 

4. How did you feel when Jamie put Fergus on Donas and sent him to Jenny with the Deed of Sasine?

I just knew the little guy would make it.  He would never let milord down.  Still crying. 

5. Jamie and Claire's last night together...how was it for you?

Forget crying.  Now Im sobbing.  Such despair and heartbreak.  This is Jamie and Claire at their most raw, most open and emotional. 

6. Did you want Claire to go back through the stones?

No, but she had to.  Jamie wouldnt let her die and the baby with her.  Considering how hellish the journey through the stones is, I cant believe she didnt lose the baby when she passed through.

Part Seven-- Dragonfly in Amber

"Hindsight"
Chapter 47 - Loose Ends

1. What is your opinion of Brianna's reaction?


It was tough for Brianna.  I dont blame her, especially when Claire said she hated her for a time.  Brianna never allowed herself to hear that Claire came to love her for herself. 

2. Did Claire give Brianna enough proof?

Claire gave Brianna proof, and then demolished the proof herself.  I wonder why Brianna never asked her mother about the silver ring she always wore. 

3. Did Claire do the right thing in telling Roger of his relation to Geillis?

Absolutely.  Claire is obviously brutally honest.  Knowing the story, Roger had to know the end of it, too. 

Chapter 48 - Witch Hunt

1. Should they have gone after Gillian Edgars?


How could they do otherwise?  It wasnt just a matter of saving Gellie from burning as a witch.  By keeping her from traveling through the stones, they would have saved a lot of other people, starting with Arthur Duncan, not to mention the husband she murdered on Craig na Dun and how many others. 

Roger might not have been Roger Wakefield, but his soul would still survive in another way. 

2. Why do you think Claire did not tell Brianna about Rogers connection to Geillie?

Claire was saving that as the final proof.

Chapter 49 - Blessed Are Those

1. What did you think of Geillis' passage scene at Craigh Na Dun?


Back in Outlander, Gellie thought she knew Claire.  Now we know why.  They couldnt have stopped her without getting pulled into the stones themselves. 

2. What did you think of the ending of the book?

Just as Claire had to tell Roger about Gellie, he had to tell her about Jamie.  Yay, now there will be another book!!!  Remember, I read this series when it first came out. 

Dragonfly Wrap Up

1. What are your thoughts on Dianas moving back and forth between the 1900s and the 1700s.


Confusing at first, but it did tell us that Claire made it safely back to her present, and that she and Jamie had a child.

2. Talk about your impressions of Roger in the beginning versus the end of the book.

Ive got to give Roger credit for believing Claire.  He not only backed her up, he had the courage to go searching for Gillian Edgars, not knowing if it would mean he would disappear forever. 

3. Where does Claire seem more confident, in the 1900s or 1700s, why?

I think shes more confident in 1968.  Shes been through medical school, is a highly respected surgeon, and chief of staff at her hospital. 

4. Which scene did you find the most humor in?

The urine specimen. 

5. Yes, tears flow freely throughout this book, but which scene moved you the most?

The crofters cottage right before Culloden.  When Jamie said he had to have Claire one more time, I think I heard my heart break. 

6. Do you think Claires medical experiences during the 1700s initiated her desire to be a doctor or  did she already have that desire?

I think Claire might have eventually come to studying medicine, if Frank would have let her.  After what she went through in the 18th century, Claire had the guts to do what she wanted in spite of what Frank wanted.  I think it also helped that they moved to the U.S.  She might not have gone to medical school as the wife of an Oxford Don. 

7. Now that we think Jamie survived Culloden, what do you think Claire is feeling? (No Spoilers,  please)

Conflicted.  Brianna is all she has left.  Can she leave her behind?  Will she leave her behind?  Brianna heard the stones, which means she can travel. 

8. What do you think Brianna was feeling when she realized Claire was telling the truth?

In shock.  Now, she has to accept a whole new set of beliefs about who she is and where she came from.  Thats the least of it.  Time travel is possible, and thats got to be really hard to accept.

9. Claire has loved Jamie for 20 years.  Has her love mellowed or grown stronger with time?

It certainly hasnt mellowed, not with Jamie coming to her in dreams all the time. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009, 04:35:27 PM by Gertie Kindle 'Turn to Page 390' »


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Offline tlshaw

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 08:22:41 AM »
Chapter 43

1. Discuss your reaction to the scene where the retreating men enter Claire's sanctuary in the church.
Fear when they first went in, then a sense of relief that is was Dougals men.

2. How did you feel when Jamie and Claire were reunited in the church?
They always seem to find their way back to each other, and every time it is extremely emotional.

3. Was Dougal right to hasten Rupert's demise?  How did you feel when Jamie put Dougal into Claires arms?
Rupert was in a lot of pain and dying. Dougal was being merciful by ending his suffering and not letting him be captured by the British. They were known to be barbaric. Jamie knew that Claire was the person to comfort Dougal. He needed a woman to hold him and let him grieve.

4. What did you think of the plan to use Claire to negotiate the retreat of the MacKenzies?
If Claire stayed with them and was captured as a Scot, she would have been abused. This was the only way to save her, as well as the men.

Chapter 44

1. Were you surprised when Claire ran into Mary Hawkins at the house she was taken to?
She keeps popping up in the strangest places. But, since she was an ancestor of Frank, she had to stay in the storyline.

2. Were you surprised at the reappearance of the Duke of Sandringham?
Somewhat. It is still difficult to tell where he stands. I think he was like Lord Lovat, playing both sides to see which would benefit him the most.

3. Were you surprised that Sandringham revealed his duplicity to Claire?
No, he was sure she would not leave his home, so had no fear that she would tell anyone.

4. How did you feel when you learned the fate of Hugh Munro?
That was so sad. He had suffered so much, and died trying to help Claire and Jamie.

5. What did you think of the scene where Jamie slipped into bed with Claire (and Mary) and got a little surprise?
That was funny. Jamie seemed to get into trouble where women were concerned.

6. What were your impressions of their escape from Sandringham's house?
How did they get out after making so much noise, but not rousing any more people than they did?

7. What was your reaction when Munro's widow pulled Sandringham's head out of a bag?
That was gruesome, but Murdach did what he had promised Claire in France after she was attacked.

Chapter 45

1. At what point did you say .. Aha!  I knew I was right!!
When I found out Mary was pregnant with Alexs child. I shuddered to think that Frank was a direct descendent of Black Jack, and Jamie had made sure he couldnt father children. Also, Black Jack seemed to have a problem getting aroused with a woman before the duel, so a normal marriage with children seemed unlikely.

2. Did Claire ask too much by taking Jamie with her to Alex Randall's quarters?
Yes. He had suffered so much because of Black Jack, it didnt seem right for her to take him. I understand she needed him as a witness for the wedding, but it was still too much.

3. How did you feel about Alex's Randall's last scene?
Alex showed his true character. He was not concerned about dying, but cared about his brother, even knowing what he was, and Mary. He wanted them to take care of each other.

Chapter 46 - Timor Mortis Conturbat Me

1. How did you feel knowing that Jamie and Claire were on the road to Culloden despite their efforts to stop it all?
It seemed that Culloden was inevitable. Even with what Claire knew, they couldnt change history.

2. If Jamie had let Claire kill Charles like she wanted to, do you think would they have been able to be together?
No, one of them would have died for killing Charles. And then he would have been a martyr, instead of a failed ruler wannabe.

3. What do you think Dougal said to Jamie before Jamie killed him?  Did it shock you that Jamie killed Dougal?
I think he cursed Jamie and Claire. Jamie was not trying to kill Dougal, he was trying to protect Claire. The death was an accident.

4. How did you feel when Jamie put Fergus on Donas and sent him to Jenny with the Deed of Sasine?
Fergus was so young for such an assignment, but he would give his life for Jamie.

5. Jamie and Claire's last night together...how was it for you?
I cried, and had to stop a couple of times. It was so intense, thinking they would never see each other again.

6. Did you want Claire to go back through the stones?
No, but it was what she had to do in order to Brianna to be born. After Faith, I dont think they could have handled losing another child, and Claire needed something of Jamie to cling to.

Part Seven-- Dragonfly in Amber

"Hindsight"
Chapter 47 - Loose Ends

1. What is your opinion of Brianna's reaction?
I probably would have reacted the same. How do you handle finding out your whole life has been a lie, and you mother sounds like she just went over the edge?

2. Did Claire give Brianna enough proof?
Claire knew too many details and events that would not have been in the history books.

3. Did Claire do the right thing in telling Roger of his relation to Geillis?
I think she was trying to let him know he had a stake in all of this, just like Brianna.

Chapter 48 - Witch Hunt

1. Should they have gone after Gillian Edgars?
With Claire knowing what she did, she had to try.

2. Why do you think Claire did not tell Brianna about Rogers connection to Geillie?
She wanted Brianna and Rogers relationship to develop normally, and not try to influence things.

Chapter 49 - Blessed Are Those

1. What did you think of Geillis' passage scene at Craigh Na Dun?
That was pretty gruesome. It was interesting to see the effect the stones had on Roger. But, it took that event to really make Brianna see that Claire was telling the truth and not delusional.

2. What did you think of the ending of the book?
What happens now?


Dragonfly Wrap Up

1. What are your thoughts on Dianas moving back and forth between the 1900s and the 1700s.
It took careful reading to keep up with when and where events were taking place. Made for very interesting reading.

2. Talk about your impressions of Roger in the beginning versus the end of the book.
Roger at first seemed like a shy academic, but as he got more involved with Claire and Bri, he stepped up and took a more active role. He seemed to come out of his shell.

3. Where does Claire seem more confident, in the 1900s or 1700s, why?
I think she was more confident in the 1700s, and I think that was more because of Jamie. She seemed sort of lost without him.

4. Which scene did you find the most humor in?
I think the funniest scene was when he came back to their room in France when he had been drinking with Jared. He was so drunk, and then fell on the floor. It was even funnier the next morning, when Claire told him he had come to bed on his own during the night and made love to her 2 times, and kept repeating he loved her. He was so embarrassed because he didnt remember any of it.

5. Yes, tears flow freely throughout this book, but which scene moved you the most?
I think it was a toss up between when she lost Faith, and when she had her last night with Jamie at the crofters hut.

6. Do you think Claires medical experiences during the 1700s initiated her desire to be a doctor or  did she already have that desire?
I think it made her more in tune with people and what they were suffering. Being a healer in the 1700s gave her the confidence to be a doctor, because women doctors were rare in 1948.

7. Now that we think Jamie survived Culloden, what do you think Claire is feeling? (No Spoilers,  please)
She is wondering if she should have stayed, could she have helped more and not lost the love of her life.

8. What do you think Brianna was feeling when she realized Claire was telling the truth?
I am sure she is very confused. How could this happen, and who was she after all?

9. Claire has loved Jamie for 20 years.  Has her love mellowed or grown stronger with time?
I think her love has grown stronger, especially since she did not have a happy marriage with Frank. Every time she looked a Brianna, she was reminded of Jamie.

Offline tlshaw

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2009, 08:41:45 AM »
Gertie;
Wow, I can't believe we are finished. This has been such an emotional roller coaster, but I have cliff hangers. Thanks for giving us a break. I need to focus on school for a few weeks, but I will be diving right back in when we start Voyager.

Thank you so much for all your hard work. I have learned so much from reading everyone else's posts and I have found myself reading more carefully.

I think I will by stock in Puffs before we continue.  ;D

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2009, 09:13:05 AM »
Teresa, thanks for all your input, too. 

BTW, after reading your post, I'm changing my vote for funniest scene to Jamie being drunk.  How could I forget that.   ;D

Yes, we need a break.  I'll post the next set of chapters Monday night.  Voyager is nearly 1,000 pages long, and I'll be dividing it into 8 sections.  Can't wait to get to ... well, you know what scene I'm thinking of.   :'( 

Doing this is a labor of love.  I'm so happy to have sucked in opened up so many people to a love of Jamie and Claire. 


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Offline tlshaw

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2009, 09:50:17 AM »
I am sure I know what scene you are talking about. I am looking forward to it too. Do you think we will finish in time for the new book?

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2009, 10:30:27 AM »
I am sure I know what scene you are talking about. I am looking forward to it too. Do you think we will finish in time for the new book?

That's my plan.  We're going to have to read 150-200 pages a week to make it.  If we continue with eight weeks per book, we'll be finished the first week in October, so I think we're going to have to keep it down to seven weeks per book.  Then we'll read "Echo" (two weeks?) and jump right in to an open discussion.  Maybe we'll use Betsy's generic questions along with the open discussion.  We'll be able to make those decisions once we get the book into our hot little hands and see how long it is.  In the meatime, I'll try to keep us on track to start reading on 9/22. 

I'm so glad we're reading and discussing together.  It helps me get through to 9/22. 


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Offline Anju No. 469

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2009, 11:09:27 AM »
But will the new book be kindelized in a timely manner?

Also starting Distant Cousin book 2 for book klub, and the Ark is starting soon, so many books and not enough time.  Of course if I would get off of here I could use my time reading  :D :D :D
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2009, 01:09:26 PM »
But will the new book be kindelized in a timely manner?

Also starting Distant Cousin book 2 for book klub, and the Ark is starting soon, so many books and not enough time.  Of course if I would get off of here I could use my time reading  :D :D :D

That's our problem, isn't it.  I'm so busy here discussing books, getting bargain and free books and discussing everything else under the sun, I have little time to read.   ;D

I have every faith "Echo" will be Kindleized timely.  DG seems to have jumped on the bandwagon since all six books are already available.  Many times we've seen a new book advertised with nary a peep about the Kindle version.  Then the KV comes out the same day or within a day or two. 



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Offline imallbs

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2009, 10:37:16 PM »
Gertie, thank you for introducing me to these books.  I even gave Outlander to someone as a get well gift (she loved it and is now reading DIA)  I dont read romance novels thank you very much until now.  Here are my answers to these questions.  Next plan read what others thought and change my mind about everything.

Chapter 43
1. Discuss your reaction to the scene where the retreating men enter Claire's sanctuary in the church.
I was on the edge of my seat until I found out they were Scots.  Then I was relieved.  Then I was concerned about the rest of the men.

2. How did you feel when Jamie and Claire were reunited in the church?
I think this is when they realized for good that they had failed and were truly and irrevocably in survival mode.  Before that they knew it, but it wasnt imminent.

3. Was Dougal right to hasten Rupert's demise?
Rupert wanted him to.  Its not like they could have stopped his pain any other way.  Dougal has done this before, Rupert has probably done it before to it that time it was the humane thing to do.
How did you feel when Jamie put Dougal into Claires arms?
Could anyone have comforted Dougal like a woman could?  I dont think it had to be Claire but she was the only woman there.  Imagine one of the big strong Scots men doing what Claire did go on try it without laughing.

4. What did you think of the plan to use Claire to negotiate the retreat of the MacKenzies?  
Desperate times, desperate measures.  Its not like its the 1st time Claire was used like this.  But this time it went wrong.  We saw all of this from Claires point of view.  I imagine Jamie was worried right up to the time he got Claire back.

Chapter 44
1. Were you surprised when Claire ran into Mary Hawkins at the house she was taken to?  

Yes.  Wasnt she supposed to be with Alex?

2. Were you surprised at the reappearance of the Duke of Sandringham?
After seeing Mary, no.  I was expecting him to show up again.  I figured he was a nasty sort of man, after all, he supported Jack Randall (at least according to the information Frank had)

3. Were you surprised that Sandringham revealed his duplicity to Claire?
Not really.  I think he was planning to kill her so it didnt matter what she knew.

4. How did you feel when you learned the fate of Hugh Munro?
Incredibly sad.  Hugh never caught a break a truly nice man.

5. What did you think of the scene where Jamie slipped into bed with Claire (and Mary) and got a little surprise?
Funny.  Jamie should stay away from other women, they dont really agree with him.

6. What were your impressions of their escape from Sandringham's house?
Jamie would do anything to save Claire.  His men must really respect her too.  Yes, they follow Jamie but they also have minds of their own.  It reminded me of the escape from Wentworth, only louder than the herd of cows.  Really, how did they get out more or less undetected?

7. What was your reaction when Munro's widow pulled Sandringham's head out of a bag?
I was dreading that moment.  I knew his head was in that bag from the moment Murtagh showed up with 2 bags.  He promised Claire he would and he did.  After all Sandringham was responsible, Danton was (willingly) following orders and he was dead.

Chapter 45
1. At what point did you say .. Aha!  I knew I was right!!

Alex is Franks ancestor.  Of course he had to be.  I had already decided it was so, therefore it must be so.

2. Did Claire ask too much by taking Jamie with her to Alex Randall's quarters?
No, Jamie didnt seem to have a problem with Alex and I was under the impression that she wasnt expecting Jack.

3. How did you feel about Alex's Randall's last scene?
Franks ancestor was a good, caring guy.  Its nice to know that Jack didnt live long enough to raise that kid.  The part where Jamie helped Jack totally unbelievable to me.  This was the man he wanted to kill so much before.  It hadnt been that long. I just didnt buy it.

Chapter 46 - Timor Mortis Conturbat Me
1. How did you feel knowing that Jamie and Claire were on the road to Culloden despite their efforts to stop it all?

It was inevitable.  Jamie and Claire (up until he made her go back) were kind of fatalistic about it and so was I.
Ok heres where I hurt my head.  At the beginning of Outlander Jamies Ghost is watching Claire, so she must have already been in the past (if she hadnt he wouldnt have known her and wouldnt have been watching her).  That means that the history of the uprising and Culloden were affected by her and Jamies actions.  What if their actions influenced enough people who would have supported Charlie but then didnt so he didnt have the funds to win?  Just asking...anyone have an aspirin?

2. If Jamie had let Claire kill Charles like she wanted to, do you think would they have been able to be together?
Did she really want to?  I think she was desperate to save Jamie and to be with him.  Given time to think about it, I doubt she would have done it.  If she had, she and Jamie could have run.  They would have murdered Charlie together so the act itself probably wouldnt have kept them apart though the legal ramifications could have.

3. What do you think Dougal said to Jamie before Jamie killed him?  
Dougal was blaming Claire, I think he was still blaming Claire and warning Jamie.
Did it shock you that Jamie killed Dougal?
One of the big shocks of the books.

4. How did you feel when Jamie put Fergus on Donas and sent him to Jenny with the Deed of Sasine?
When did Fergus learn how to ride?  Donas is a difficult horse and I seem to remember Fergus hanging on to a horse for dear life not too long ago.  Maybe he learned how to ride, but Donas?
Jamie is keeping his promises.  He wants his family, his land and his people safe.  He is doing what he needs to make sure that happens.

5. Jamie and Claire's last night together...how was it for you?
Desperate.  Two desperate people.  One is losing everything except the hope his child will live and the other has only one thing to hold onto; not even something tangible yet only a possibility.

6. Did you want Claire to go back through the stones?
Ah, the choice between bad and worse.  Living without Jamie but giving his child a chance or everybody dying.  They really didnt have a choice.

Part Seven-- Dragonfly in Amber
"Hindsight"
Chapter 47 - Loose Ends
1. What is your opinion of Brianna's reaction?

What else could she do?  She adored Frank and Claires story was completely unbelievable.  Oh and by the way, your mother hated you for a while.  Really, she didn't react all that bad.

2. Did Claire give Brianna enough proof?
How is it even possible for Claire to give Brianna enough proof?  Claire was in the past for a while before she believed it.  No, Brianna had to experience the stones herself in order to believe Claire.  Good thing my mother never told me anything like that.  If she did, shed be on some good pills right now and humming a happy tune.

3. Did Claire do the right thing in telling Roger of his relation to Geillis?
Sure.  But, I dont think it was because she thought Roger needed to know.  Claire felt she owed Geillis for saving her life and she wanted to try to do the same.  Because Roger could be affected by this, she was giving him a choice.  I will not hurt my head by thinking about what would have happened if Geillis had not gone back

Chapter 48 - Witch Hunt
1. Should they have gone after Gillian Edgars?

She had to.  Like I said, she thought she owed Geillis and Roger was in agreement.

2. Why do you think Claire did not tell Brianna about Rogers connection to Geillie?
It wasnt part of Briannas story.  It belonged to Roger and was Rogers to tell.

Chapter 49 - Blessed Are Those
1. What did you think of Geillis' passage scene at Craigh Na Dun?

I so wanted to like Geillis even after she murdered Arthur but now I cant.  It did give a hint that Roger and Brianna can go back with Claire.  Lets face it, Claire is going back.

2. What did you think of the ending of the book?
1st thought:  What the... is this a soap opera?  Does no one stay dead?
2nd thought: Yeah, more books


Dragonfly Wrap Up
1. What are your thoughts on Dianas moving back and forth between the 1900s and the 1700s.

I have read several books in that style and am used to it, kind of like it.  It worked well to tell both stories.  After all, Claire exists in two times.

2. Talk about your impressions of Roger in the beginning versus the end of the book.
Originally I was wary of him because he was a colleague and friend of Frank.  I didnt know how he would react to Claires story.  He really stepped up for her.  Hes a good guy.  There doesnt seem to be much of Geillis or Dougal in him.

3. Where does Claire seem more confident, in the 1900s or 1700s, why?
In the 1900s.  She is her own person.  She remained a little out of place in the 1700s.

4. Which scene did you find the most humor in?
Jamie coming home drunk.  I read that so many times.  
"Youre right, I said. Drunk isnt anywhere near sufficient to describe your current state. Jamie, youre completely p*ssed. His eyes traveled down the front of his kilt, across the floor, and up the front of my gown. No, Im not, he said, with great dignity. I did that outside. He took a step toward me, glowing with ardor. Come here to me, Sassenach; Im ready.
The urine sample scene was a close second.

5. Yes, tears flow freely throughout this book, but which scene moved you the most?
Claire and Jamie reuniting after Faith died.  It was a healing time.  Other parts were sad, Column dying got me more than I thought it would.  The night before Claire left was sad too.  But for me their reunion (not as sad but dealing with sad things and coming back together) was the most emotional.

6. Do you think Claires medical experiences during the 1700s initiated her desire to be a doctor or did she already have that desire?
I dont thing she would have been a doctor if she hadnt gone back.  She was ready to give up nursing to be the historians wife.  She was going to pick flowers and press them in books.  Going back separated her from Frank and gave her the courage to do something most women wouldnt have thought about doing.

7. Now that we think Jamie survived Culloden, what do you think Claire is feeling? (No Spoilers,  please)
A whole bunch of stuff
   Regret - at having left him
   Joy - at knowing he didnt die at Culloden
   Sorrow - at the time they lost
   Confusion - because it changed everything she believed
   Torn - between being with him and being with Brianna
   Guilt - for leaving him
   Curiosity - wondering what happened
And a lot more


8. What do you think Brianna was feeling when she realized Claire was telling the truth?
Shock - time travel is real?
Confusion - what she believed about herself is not all true
Relief - that her mother wasnt crazy
Sorrow at losing Frank as her father (even if she really didnt)
Anger at being lied to


9. Claire has loved Jamie for 20 years.  Has her love mellowed or grown stronger with time?
   It certainly hasnt mellowed.  She keeps dreaming about him and I get the impression she would rather live in her dreams that wake up to the reality of life without him.  So how long do you think shell wait before she goes back?  A question I would need to know the answer to if he didnt die at Culloden, when did he die?  If she goes back she needs to know hes still going to be alive when she gets there.

Ok there was a part of me that was sorry Claire and Jamie lost 20 years.  I wished they had been able to raise Brianna together.

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 05:10:57 AM »
Gertie, thank you for introducing me to these books.  I even gave Outlander to someone as a get well gift (she loved it and is now reading DIA)  I dont read romance novels thank you very much until now.  Here are my answers to these questions.  Next plan read what others thought and change my mind about everything.

That's it.  Spread the love.  You liked it because it's not your typical bodice ripper and Jamie and Claire aren't your typical romance characters.  There are also very strong secondary characters and a lot of history.  The writing is also excellent and I personally love DG's sense of humor. 

Quote
7. What was your reaction when Munro's widow pulled Sandringham's head out of a bag?
I was dreading that moment.  I knew his head was in that bag from the moment Murtagh showed up with 2 bags.  He promised Claire he would and he did.  After all Sandringham was responsible, Danton was (willingly) following orders and he was dead.

Jamie vowed to Munro's widow that he would take care of her and her children.  Then all those other terrible things happened and he went back to Culloden to die.   :'(  Even though he lived, Red Jamie would have been a hunted man.  No way could he have kept that promise, and knowing what the English did to the Scots after Culloden, I doubt if the Munro family survived. 

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Chapter 45
1. At what point did you say .. Aha!  I knew I was right!!

Alex is Franks ancestor.  Of course he had to be.  I had already decided it was so, therefore it must be so.

Yeah, you were right all along.  We just couldn't tell you.


Quote
Chapter 46 - Timor Mortis Conturbat Me
1. How did you feel knowing that Jamie and Claire were on the road to Culloden despite their efforts to stop it all?

It was inevitable.  Jamie and Claire (up until he made her go back) were kind of fatalistic about it and so was I.
Ok heres where I hurt my head.  At the beginning of Outlander Jamies Ghost is watching Claire, so she must have already been in the past (if she hadnt he wouldnt have known her and wouldnt have been watching her).  That means that the history of the uprising and Culloden were affected by her and Jamies actions.  What if their actions influenced enough people who would have supported Charlie but then didnt so he didnt have the funds to win?  Just asking...anyone have an aspirin?

That's a question I asked when Jamie and Claire were in France.  Did they actually stop Charles from having any chance of success by drying up his financing?  Did something like this really happen?  Probably.  There were no doubt many people that didn't want Charles to succeed, and they probably worked the same way Jamie and Claire did. 

Quote
Did it shock you that Jamie killed Dougal?
One of the big shocks of the books.

Yeah, that one really slammed me, too.  No way I saw that coming. 

Quote
2. What did you think of the ending of the book?
1st thought:  What the... is this a soap opera?  Does no one stay dead?

*whistlingand rollingmyeyes*



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Offline Anju No. 469

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 10:23:59 AM »
imallbs - you have been reading my mind!  You answered all the questions perfectly, just like I would have if I had answered them, thanks for saving me from Gertie's ire for being delinquint  ;)  Ready for the next one, already bought it  :)
Dona
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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 05:55:30 PM »
imallbs - you have been reading my mind!  You answered all the questions perfectly, just like I would have if I had answered them, thanks for saving me from Gertie's ire for being delinquint  ;)  Ready for the next one, already bought it  :)

Now, now ... Gertie doesn't have ire.  Sometimes she has hives, but she never passes it on. 


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Offline imallbs

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2009, 08:53:02 PM »
Interesting thoughts on the book

Quote
What did you think of the scene where Jamie slipped into bed with Claire (and Mary) and got a little surprise?
Poor Jamie.  Hes always getting kicked, bitten, scratched, slapped.  Lets give Mary some credit for defending herself, and then making the bold decision to go with Jamie and Claire
At this point Mary has really taken control of her life, hasnt she?
Quote
Did Claire give Brianna enough proof?
I wonder why Brianna never asked her mother about the silver ring she always wore.
Good question.  I wonder what Claire would have told her?  She promised Frank she wouldnt tell Brianna about Jamie while he was alive so how would she have explained the ring to a little girl?
Quote
Talk about your impressions of Roger in the beginning versus the end of the book.
Ive got to give Roger credit for believing Claire.  He not only backed her up, he had the courage to go searching for Gillian Edgars, not knowing if it would mean he would disappear forever.

And with this, Roger becomes another one of my favorite characters.
Quote
What did you think of the plan to use Claire to negotiate the retreat of the MacKenzies?
If Claire stayed with them and was captured as a Scot, she would have been abused. This was the only way to save her, as well as the men.
I hadnt thought of it from the point of view of helping Claire.  That makes it more of a mutual thing than just saving the men.
Quote
How did you feel when Jamie put Fergus on Donas and sent him to Jenny with the Deed of Sasine?
I just knew the little guy would make it.  He would never let milord down.  Still crying.
Fergus was so young for such an assignment, but he would give his life for Jamie.

I hope Fergus shows up in future books.  We are probably going to lose Murtagh, I cant see Jamie and Claire having a future at Lallybroch so we will probably lose Jenny, Ian and the rest.
Quote
Why do you think Claire did not tell Brianna about Rogers connection to Geillie?
She wanted Brianna and Rogers relationship to develop normally, and not try to influence things.
She obviously noticed and approved of their attraction.  At least enough time has passed (200 years) that they arent first cousins or something like that.
Quote
What did you think of Geillis' passage scene at Craigh Na Dun?
That was pretty gruesome. It was interesting to see the effect the stones had on Roger. But, it took that event to really make Brianna see that Claire was telling the truth and not delusional.

I am interested in seeing if Roger travels into the past with Brianna.  Obviously Claire is going back and Im choosing to believe that Brianna will join her if not at first, then later.  What can I say, I want to see Jamie and Claire reunited with just the two of them there.

Offline imallbs

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2009, 09:19:46 PM »
Quote
The writing is also excellent and I personally love DG's sense of humor.

Without DG's sense of humor I would not be reading these books.  For me, the humor is what takes these books over the top.
Quote
Yeah, you were right all along.  We just couldn't tell you.
I'm always right.  If I appear to be wrong, just wait - the world is required to adjust in order to accurately reflect my point of view.
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*whistlingand rollingmyeyes*
At the same time!  I'm impressed!

Offline tlshaw

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2009, 11:22:31 AM »
I wondered about Claire's ring too. It would seem that at some point, Bri would have at least commented on it. Maybe she did and Claire just told her a very good friend had given it to her a long time ago (it was after all 200 years ago).

I know some people have commented throughout this book why Bri never questioned the fact that she didn't look like Claire or Frank. If Bri had questioned it, Claire could have easily told her she looked like one of her grandparents. Since they were dead long ago, who could argue the point?  That must have been awful for Claire to see Jamie every time she looked a Bri, but not be able to talk about him to anyone. I loved the comment in the beginning of DIA when Claire stroked Bri's hair while she was sleeping and she smiled. It was the same as when she was stroking Jamie's hair when he fell asleep at the table at Lallybroch and he smiled. It was at that moment that Jenny accepted Claire.


Offline Toby

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2009, 10:09:35 PM »
***I'm confused! Geille dies at the stake. She's dead. Claire's there at that same time. Claire goes back to the future. Geille is alive! Geille goes back ....to die! It made sense to me at 1st until I started thinking about it. Please explain this to me!!!!! :P****

***I knew it!! I knew it!!!! Frank is Alex's child. Gertie, remember when I was asking you about Alex. I knew something was up with that. I knew it for sure, like all of you when Mary was pregnant.
***Was I the only one that read that Jamie had told Claire that before Dougal died, he told Jamie that no ships could leave or enter the port? That's when Claire suggested that they flee back to France, if Claire killed Charlie. Yes, I was shocked to read that Dougal thought of Claire as a witch. For God's sake, didn't Claire sew up his hand or some body part. He knew of Claire as a healer & as a caring person. The guy's an idiot & deserved to die, especially since he was going to rape Claire.
***Now, I did not know that Bree heard the stones. If so, then I can picture Claire, Bree & Roger going back to Jamie. I thought that Bree couldn't, so I was thinking that whatever choice Claire made would be heart renching. I don't think that Claire should have told Bree that she hated Bree for a bit, even if it were the truth. Those words would be hurtful to a child.
***Love the 2 books that I've read, the writing, the ups & downs of emotions, the laughter. I love the fact that we are reading together, even though, I think, most have already read the series. I love what everyone has said & learning new things when someone points something out. What a ride!! Incredible plot lines. How does Diana do it? That's what I think as I read her books.

Offline Toby

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2009, 10:21:25 PM »
***Yeah!!! Gerties in for all the books!!! Yipppeeee!!!!!

***I watched Harry Potter tonight on TV, Gertie. I thought of you. I missed the beginning once again. I never seem to catch the beginning. It was The Sorcerous Stone - Book 1.

Offline tlshaw

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2009, 11:12:03 AM »
Ok Toby, now breathe. Although, I felt the same way the first time I read the series, and still do sometimes. Just wait - it gets better and better. I love how loose ends in earlier parts get tied up later on. Just hang on!

Offline Anju No. 469

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2009, 12:28:32 PM »
It's been long ago enough that I feel as if I am reading these for the first time, so it's ok Toby there is more than just you out there.
Dona
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Offline Toby

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2009, 06:26:00 PM »
***Okay, I took a deep breath. Thanks, tlshaw & Anju!!! I'll wait patiently for the answer. I started Voyager, & yep, it does get better & better. I did not want to put the Kindle down. Gave myself a big pat on the back for finishing yet another big book.  :)

Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2009, 06:51:09 PM »
I wondered about Claire's ring too. It would seem that at some point, Bri would have at least commented on it. Maybe she did and Claire just told her a very good friend had given it to her a long time ago (it was after all 200 years ago).

Yes, I guess it's easily explained.  She could have even said that Frank bought it for her when they honeymooned in Scotland the second time. 

Quote
I know some people have commented throughout this book why Bri never questioned the fact that she didn't look like Claire or Frank. If Bri had questioned it, Claire could have easily told her she looked like one of her grandparents. Since they were dead long ago, who could argue the point?

If Claire ever had any photos of her parents, she probably kept them to herself.

Quote
That must have been awful for Claire to see Jamie every time she looked a Bri, but not be able to talk about him to anyone. I loved the comment in the beginning of DIA when Claire stroked Bri's hair while she was sleeping and she smiled. It was the same as when she was stroking Jamie's hair when he fell asleep at the table at Lallybroch and he smiled. It was at that moment that Jenny accepted Claire.

Even if Bree hadn't looked exactly like Jamie, we would have known at that point.  That did tug at my heartstrings. 


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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2009, 06:59:05 PM »
***I'm confused! Geille dies at the stake. She's dead. Claire's there at that same time. Claire goes back to the future. Geille is alive! Geille goes back ....to die! It made sense to me at 1st until I started thinking about it. Please explain this to me!!!!! :P****

When Claire is in 1968, Gillian Edgars (Gellie) had not gone back, yet.  This is the continuous time loop theory of time travel.  Gillian Edgars doesn't exist in 1968 the minute she goes through the stones.  It doesn't pay to think too much about it without a very large bottle of Tylenol at hand. 

Quote
***I knew it!! I knew it!!!! Frank is Alex's child. Gertie, remember when I was asking you about Alex. I knew something was up with that. I knew it for sure, like all of you when Mary was pregnant.

I remember.  I'm just so mean, I won't tell.   :-X

Quote
***Was I the only one that read that Jamie had told Claire that before Dougal died, he told Jamie that no ships could leave or enter the port? That's when Claire suggested that they flee back to France, if Claire killed Charlie.


Yes.  Jamie told her that all the ports were closed.  O'Brien had been trying to get a ship through for three months to get Charlie back to France.  But Jamie told her that when she suggested they go back to France. 

Quote
***Love the 2 books that I've read, the writing, the ups & downs of emotions, the laughter. I love the fact that we are reading together, even though, I think, most have already read the series. I love what everyone has said & learning new things when someone points something out. What a ride!! Incredible plot lines. How does Diana do it? That's what I think as I read her books. 

It doesn't matter how many times I've read the series.  I laugh, I cry, I hold my breath and I get more out of the books, too, reading everyone's responses and opinions.


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Offline Gertie Kindle 'a/k/a Margaret Lake'

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Re: DRAGONFLY IN AMBER: Week of 4/13, Discussing Chapters 43 to the End
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2009, 07:04:09 PM »
***Yeah!!! Gerties in for all the books!!! Yipppeeee!!!!!

***I watched Harry Potter tonight on TV, Gertie. I thought of you. I missed the beginning once again. I never seem to catch the beginning. It was The Sorcerous Stone - Book 1.

Aww, that's sweet.  I'm holding the last meeting of my HP Book Club tomorrow.  It's going to be the last task of the TriWizard Tournament.  Wish me luck!!!

And Slytherin won the House Cup. 




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