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Messages - Avery342

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I have a Kindle Fire HD. About a year old now.

I don't know if anyone tried to read any of my books but here is what I'm seeing today 20th.
Something to Read on the Plane went up 458,999 in rank. There is no sale, so it must have been borrowed. I'm seeing 4 page reads for yesterday. (this could be entirely unconnected to any experiment, but they are the only page reads I've had for the entire month.)

Leon/eggs went up 171
Leon/mouse went up 300
Bheki went up 354
Bheki in Chinese went up 659
The Race went up 95.

These rises in rank really mean nothing as they could be due to all sorts of reasons and would be higher if the book had been borrowed.

Interesting. I borrowed the plane book yesterday and read the front matter in regular fashion, about four pages as I recall. Then I switched to page flip mode and read (yes really read--cute stories btw) up to page 25. Unless you get credited with another 20 pages or so in the next few days, I'd say the page flip issue hasn't been fixed after all.

Writers' Cafe / Re: "How we measure page reads" KDP notice
« on: Yesterday at 02:58:30 PM »
Do you know what would be a fun test?

Change the labels in the formatting tags in your ebook. Make them as long as possible, and see if that boosts the KEPNC.
Fun test yes, but as much as the Zon seems to hate me--my account would immediately be terminated with no appeal process for trying to manipulate page reads. Probably true of all non-stuffing scammers unfortunately.

Thanks for checking, Nate. I'll have to check out that kcr sometime. Sounds like a handy tool.

Just for the record, according to Amazon, the other writer's 1056 page book (with the extra spaces too btw) should take me 24 and a half hours to read.

Got the PM, and thank you for sending it.

FYI: The 320 page count is based on the print edition.

I am looking at the file now; I think it really is only a standard novel length; Kindle Cloud Reader says it is 315 pages long.

Weird. Amazon usually does a much better job at guessing my reading speed. I just surfed another scammer and found one with over 1,000 print pages and a file size of only around 2250 kb.

You sure the cloud reader is an accurate judge of pages-- comparible to KENP?

Nate, sent you a PM. Don't want to make it too hard on the mods here.

Was amazed to find a habitual stuffer that seemed to have a book following ALL the rules. One book and only two "samples" in the back. So I borrowed the book in KU to check it further.

First of all the file size is almost 3500 kb. Dang big file for 320 printed pages, huh? So the main book does end after 90%, so totally legit, right?

Then why is the print so much larger than any other book I've read from KU? And the spaces between paragraphs are there too.

The thing is, I know I'm a slow reader, but Amazon estimates it will take me more than 25 hours to read this 320 page book. I ain't that slow!

So even if they look like they are compliant, they've just moved on to a new way to cheat. I'm betting the KENP for that 320 page single book is about 2500 pages. Of course, can't prove that, can we?

Cheaters are gonna cheat. Now they don't even have to pay for incentives to get their readers to do the page flip.

I don't have a Mac. Thought about Smashwords, but still looking into them. The needing to buy an ISBN for every book is an issue. I may end up paying more for ISBNs than I make back in sales. I don't like doing that.

I've also read that IBooks doesn't do erotica. Not having looked into them properly (as I don't have a Mac or iPhone or I-anything) I don't know if that's true or not.

Thanks for the suggestions. I should check into Smashwords more and maybe ISBN my best seller and see if it flies.

The thing about Smashwords is that you don't need an ISBN to get on their store. And, for the record, their store alone is GREAT for erotica. Go through the formatting they require and upload your books. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised. So far, the Smashwords store alone has outsold every other wide store combined--and all without an ISBN.

YMMV, but it was well worth it for me.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 12:30:34 PM »
I mean, I update all the time and have never had an issue. That would be around 740 pages in manual formatting.

Hmm, actually I think the whole 'manual formatting' might be the issue. They have obviously found a way to make it very profitable. As for me, and DA, yeah, about 330 to 340 words a page is what we get credited for. I use D2D to come up with a Kindle template that I then upload to KDP. I don't have a Mac for using Vellum or anything like that.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 11:09:28 AM »
I have one book that is 120 00 words. Print pages 406. KENP 601

I'm thinking you are missing a 0 in there. You meant 120,000 words, right? If so then you got credit for about 295 words per page? That's actually pretty good. I'm going to go out on a limb, though, and guess that maybe you haven't updated that book for a while? My books used to have longer page counts. That changed a couple of updates ago, however.

Even so, let's say that DA's guesstimate is about right (and just for the record, it's pretty darn close to my own) and the book in question has 350,000 words. If Amazon favored her with the 295 words per page, that would equal around 1200 pages. Not 2,665.

So in this race, the stuffers are WAY out in front on yet another level.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 10:46:41 AM »
How does one find this elusive Top 100? Any time I try to find it using Amazon's search box I just get a bunch of assorted books of various genres and quality -- not the top sellers.

I found it once, last month, probably by accident.

You can also do the following:

1. Choose the Kindle store from the drop down list of departments,
2. Click on Bestsellers & More (on the menu line directly under the wide bluegray bar at the top of the page)
3. Scroll down and click on Kindle Best Sellers under Category best sellers

This will bring up the top 100 in the Kindle store, but more importantly, if you then click on "Kindle eBooks" in the short list at the left of the page, you can gain access to the top 100 in each category.

I really don't know why they make it so very difficult.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 10:35:39 AM »

If those 2665 pages are KENP, then that works out to 546k. Divide that by about 4.5 (four books + 20 chapters) and you get an average of 121k per book, which is not altogether unreasonable. I have a 157k book. If those are "print length" pages, though, we're looking at 906K, which seems an awful lot for 4.5 books.

I was talking about the number of pages Amazon lists on the product page. I was afraid if I said "print length" people would get confused and think I was talking about paper back editions. And don't forget, that by the author's own words, books one and two are 80K--as stated in their blurb.

Something is very hinky with their formatting.

And don't even try to tell me that is an accident, either. They know EXACTLY what they're doing.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 10:17:02 AM »
If that's the page count that shows on the book page, the reason it's not lowered to match the drop might be because Amazon is slow in lowering that number when you upload a new version of your book. I uploaded new, longer versions of my two books last weekend, and they're still showing the page counts from the old versions on their book pages. One is still 146, and I know it should be at least 175 now. This post reminded me that I need to contact Amazon about it.
Also, that doesn't mean I get credit for only 146 pages if someone reads my book. I'm seeing page reads that seem to be the length of the new version.

Yeah, Amazon doesn't get in hurry with those changes, do they? However, for what it's worth, I don't think the actual content of this book has changed at all. Of course I could be wrong. I do know that it's the same as it was on June 3rd. The only difference I've seen is the tweaking of the title and cover.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 09:31:56 AM »
Noting that Avery342 has not asked what the coding loophole might be, if there is one. Indeed, it's probably best if we don't figure such things out on a public forum. :(

I absolutely agree, Becca! The last thing we need are more authors following in their footsteps. I just wanted to make others aware that the stuffers might well be dropping the number of stuffed "extras" in their compilations, but the page count isn't lowering to match the drop.

Odd, to say the least.

And, of course, even with unstuffed books with their new formatting trick, they can still rake in double what an ethical author can for the exact same amount of words.


Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 09:22:09 AM »
Very interesting. I think you're onto something, but I still can't fathom how they do this.

Just to help with data, I'm mostly out of KU, but when I was still in, my 85,000 word books netted me about 450 pages in KU.

Since you mentioned KU, I'm guessing you mean you got 450 KENP? Can I ask how many pages show on your product page? Maybe mine are just way low for some reason, but 85K got me only 250 pages by their count. Unfortunately, I'm out of KU now, so I can't check on how many KENP that book was. I know it was a lot higher than 250, though.

Writers' Cafe / Re: Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 08:56:20 AM »
I understand that KENP is far different from the number of pages shown on the product page, but if Kindle is counting 80K for these authors at over 600 pages, and my 85K at 250 pages, I have to think that the KENP discrepancies would be similar. Or am I missing something?

Writers' Cafe / Stuffed Book's Page Count WTH?
« on: June 10, 2018, 07:58:34 AM »
Okay, so I'm really curious about this, so I took some time out from writing this morning to research one the biggest stuffer authors. The book I looked at is their newest release and well within the top 100 of the entire Kindle store. (Actually well within the top 50, if you really want to know.)

This book has a page count (according to Kindle) of 2,665 pages. It contains 4 entire books (the first two the author states are both 80K books) and a 20 chapter 'sample' of another. I did notice that the last two books included are no longer on her author page, whether that means they are unpublished to give her more 'exclusive to one book' content or not, I'm not sure.

But back to the page count.

The first book (80K by the author's note in the blurb) ended at 23%. Okay, if we take 23% of 2,665 pages we come up with 612.95 pages. Wow, that's a lot of pages for an 80K book, isn't it?

One of my pen name books clocks in at 85K and Kindle only gave me credit for 250 pages. Obviously this author's (and I use that word loosely) pages are worth about two and a half times what mine are worth. How is that?

We've seen some weird formatting lately, and mentioned it here in KB. This book looked normal. Very normal. No extra spaces, no blank pages. Just normal. So how is her 80K words sitting at just over 612 pages, when my 85K sits at 250?

This author's second book (also 80K per author note) ends at 45%. So we are looking at a pretty consistent 600+ pages for 80K words of their 'writing'.

How? I understand if they are adding more spaces or blank pages, but how do they get credit for so many pages and have their book look normal?

If I published a stuffed version of my book with its current formatting, and included 5 entire books of 85K between the covers, I'd get around 1250 pages.

Again, this book is 2665 pages! And her 5th book isn't even a complete one.

How is she getting credited with more than double the pages that I would be?

Is there really a way to format your books so that they look normal, but actually take up more than the twice the pages of a competitor's book? If this is what is truly happening, the end result is rather horrifying. They would be making twice the money from KU than we are, even without stuffing. And we'd have absolutely no way of knowing it in order to report it. (Unless the author was nice enough to give us word counts to work with like this one did--I'm betting that won't last long once this gets out.)

Just out of curiosity, how many pages would 80K mean in one of your books?

Writers' Cafe / Re: I'm in tears. Amazon has cut my numbers for May.
« on: June 09, 2018, 06:42:31 AM »

I really dont understand how less than normal sales to reads ratios can be bots. It makes no sense at all.

Which leave punishment for something else.

Or trying to drive certain authors or books out of KU?

The funny thing is, I'm one of the most honest authors you'd ever care to meet. I don't stuff, bot, or scam. I play by Amazon's rules 100%--and this is what I get in return. And the only emails I received (and I'm sure the same is true of Saboth and the others) are the same canned ones everyone is getting about illegit page reads.

Amazon is WRONG on this, and there is no way that they'll ever admit it. But at least they've changed their email to take out the account threats. So I guess we should bow down and be grateful, huh?

Writers' Cafe / Re: I'm in tears. Amazon has cut my numbers for May.
« on: June 09, 2018, 06:18:42 AM »
This makes no sense at all.

This is less than what I'd call normal reads for the number of sales.

I was expecting read values way in excess of sales, not less.

There is nothing here in the stats to suggest anything untoward is happening. If bots were illicitly reading these books, the reads value should be an order of magnitude higher.

Which makes me wonder, what else is going on here we dont know about, and Amazon wont tell us?

Something else is definitely going on. This is part of a post I made on an earlier thread here in KB about my page reads being stripped:

Full disclosure. To reiterate my story very briefly to set the stage for the numbers: In mid March, I released the third book in my series (not yet shown in my sig--need to get that done). During release week, I set the first book to free and ran a Kindle Countdown deal on the second to 99 cents. While it worked well (for me, anyway, as I'm just gaining momentum), to be truthful, I still thought the page reads were a bit on the low side.

Silly me.

In April, my page reads for March were reduced greatly. So even though there were no spikes (just a gradual increase due to the above), for some reason Amazon thought my reads were fake. I still don't believe it. Sorry.

Anyway, here is what you wanted. Cold, hard numbers.

All About Zane (book one) 1617 free downloads, 39 sales (after switching to a 99 cent loss-leader price point), page reads were at 19,189.
With a KENP of 283, if I did my calculations right, that means roughly 68 full reads. (Just for the record, seems pretty legit to me.) Promos while free: BookDoggy and BKNights.

Until Proven (book two) 158 sales (some at 99 cents), 11,488 page reads. KENP is at 265, so 44 full page reads? See why I was thinking my page reads were a bit on the low side? Absolutely no promo done on this book at all.

Separation Anxiety (new release) 262 sales, 25,368 page reads. KENP is at 202, so 126 full reads. The only promo was LGBT-Romance Deals newsletter, which is highly recommended and honest in their dealings.

When I published my first book, I got well over 100K page reads for the month on that book. In March, with the free run and Kindle Countdown Deal, I got a grand total of just over 56,000. Like I said, it seemed low to me, but hey, I was going to hit $1000 within 30 days, so I was ecstatic!

Then Amazon decided that a great portion of those lowly 56,000 page reads were fake--I truly must be the worst scammer ever born to see such poor results from such hard work. I ended up with 28,167 page reads from all three books combined.

Someone earlier in this thread came up with the theory that Amazon's scam-buster algo was going on percentage of growth. That's the only thing that makes one iota of sense to me.

Unless my math is wrong? If so, I'd love to know where I went wrong. (On so many levels)

(End Quote)

Note that in April, after all the lowly little promos, free run, and KCD had well and truly ended, my page reads continued to do well. (At least until I hit the 30 day cliff) I ended up with just over 117,000 page reads. And Amazon let me keep every single one of them--no nasty gram. When I saw others that weren't so lucky getting their accounts suspended, I opted out of KU. What choice did I really have?  I could get hit again with my next release, after all.

Tell me this is right.

Writers' Cafe / Re: I'm in tears. Amazon has cut my numbers for May.
« on: June 08, 2018, 09:49:57 AM »
I'm so very sorry this has hit you too. You aren't alone. But it does seem to really focus on people who have new releases. You would think Amazon would realize that would mean higher page reads, but their scambots must not be that smart.

An "author" like Carter? Last I heard, top tier All-Star took about 10 million pages per month, so KU money plus the bonus would amount to at least $70,000 per month.

That's per pseudonym, of which most of these people have several, so sky's the limit, really.

Actually that's only the beginning. You also have to figure in the massive amount they spent promoting their stuffed books. All that and absolutely NO income to offset it.

This particular ad had been up for about six months. When it was mentioned in a FB group today, a few people contacted Hugo Boss. It was down within an hour.

Maybe it's mean of me, but I'd really like to see some repercussions hit this author. If Amazon won't hit them, maybe Hugo Boss will.

A new low that I guess has been going on for months now. One of the top stuffer/scammers in the Amazon store is using Calvin Klein and Hugo Boss commercials as book trailers for her ads. They work too! Several people posted that they one-clicked the book link and bought it as a result. I have to admit the video was hot.

And very professional. Best of all, for the author, it didn't cost her a red cent.

I've known that they have been using professional photos illegally for a while now, so I'm not sure why the video ad surprises me. It does, though. Just not sure why. I would think I'm beyond being surprised by now.

Cool trick, though. Just take out any references to the original product and add your book's buy links. Cheap and yet highly effective!

Note to ethical authors: Please don't try this at home. Doing so could be dangerous to your author career.

eta: Tried to post a screenshot, but can't seem to get it to work.
eta#2: Got it!

That's the proper way to do it.

If he complies, he'll be left with an eighty-page novella earning $0.30 per read-thru.

It's sweet that you think that. My bet is that the new file will be a collection and the only thing changed will be a very slightly different title and cover and no link to a review contest within the text.

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