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People are more likely to post about their successes than their failures. I think without a doubt there are plenty of writers who haven't had success from rapid series releases. There are no magic bullets. If your covers and blurb are bad, you're a new writer in a highly competitive genre or you're writing mixed genre or in an unpopular genre, it doesn't matter how fast you release, your chances of sucess are low.
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Success, that's very subjective! I suppose better than not doing the method? I'd be happy making $100 from my book launching lol - no big expectations. I am wide, and following your methods :) So it makes sense that I guess I don't have to stack and hoard all the books in a series! I really don't want to have to release one after another at first, just because I'd love to get the ball rolling...

TBH I don't know that the exact method of release matters half as much as how nice the book looks, and, most importantly, how many fans you will send to your page to buy it initially. If I were in your situation, I wouldn't release them all at once, but I'd do one of two things:

1. if you want on-sales, make sure that book 2 goes on preorder at the same time.
2. If you'd rather add those people to your audience, put a link in the back of the book with "sign up here to be notified when the book is out".

I very much prefer option 2. Not only do you get those people on your list and get to know who they are and have to power to send them wherever you want whenever you want, you also get a proper new-release sales bump, which often eludes long preorders.
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I don't really see the need for caps etc if they enforced a no duplicate content rule.  If someone writes an epic saga and readers want to read it all, the writer should be paid for those reads.  But that same writer shouldn't also be able to release the same epic saga in smaller parts and have those parts also in KU.

The biggest issue I see with 'stuffed' books is that it's the same dozen or so 'bonus' stories recycled through numerous 'compilations' under various pen names.  If content wasn't allowed to be duplicated (and that was enforced), only one pen name could include that content under one ASIN in KU.  If writers wanted to bundle short stories etc, they could - they just couldn't also have the short stories in KU (and they would still need to be exclusive to Amazon for sale purposes).
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Writers' Cafe / Re: Free online serial vs conventional permafree
« Last post by leoduhvinci on Today at 07:46:23 PM »
Thanks KW!  I'm actually just starting to go wide, been on amazon only recently.  Let me know if you have requests or questions :)
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Writers' Cafe / Re: Splitting A Long Book into Two Releases
« Last post by Flay Otters on Today at 07:44:15 PM »
Whether you publish as two books or one, do a pre-order at 99 cents and promote it. At the end of the first week live, boost the price. At least $2.99 for book 1, at least $3.99 or 4.99 if you release as one book. But promote. NL promos, AMS, at the very least. Many newbies are afraid to spend money to promote their work. With millions of books in the Amazon store, visibility is crucial.
Amen sister!
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1. define "success". It means different things to different people.
2. KU or wide? Seems some peeps in KU do this all the time. Not sure that it makes much sense wide.
3. The quality of your book and size of your audience matter most of all. If you don't have much of an audience, I'd space the releases out more so you can create a number of different launch events.

Success, that's very subjective! I suppose better than not doing the method? I'd be happy making $100 from my book launching lol - no big expectations. I am wide, and following your methods :) So it makes sense that I guess I don't have to stack and hoard all the books in a series! I really don't want to have to release one after another at first, just because I'd love to get the ball rolling...
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2. Some of us have been pushing for the lower cap for a long long time, but it was never about the length of books - it was always about a Pay-Out Cap based upon a lower KENPC. I prefer a 750 KENPC setting, (which is approximately $3.50 per read through), because it's short enough to have a significant impact on shady-hat shenanigans, and yet long enough to allow for publishing flexibility.

Your flexibility, your way. What you think's right. I don't see any reach out to the authors that are against this. I seem to be running into the same wall and it must be me. I believe in compromise and that a community finds a way to do what's right for all it's members. Instead, I feel that it comes down to simply do it my way or I'll yell at you.


3. Unlike a page cap, this allows authors to continue to publish box sets and provide as much bonus content as they feel appropriate, because it doesn't affect Pay-Out. This is especially important for writers who specialize in short fiction.

I agree. This was never debated except by one post that I know of.

4. It allows us the freedom to experiment with formatting and content and promotions and how we tell our stories, without worrying about getting banned.

I have no need for this. Nor do I see a great consensus that this is something people are actually interested in.

5. Becasue the Pay-Out is set at a 750 KENPC level, it provides authors the flexibility to decide how much over that Cap they want their titles to go. 250 KENPC is about $1.17. So is getting that third novel in the box set worth losing a $1.17? It becomes a marketing decision. And for me, the answer would be Yes, every time. Short-term greed is always the enemy of long-term strategic thinking.

Again your flexibility, your way. What you want. A predetermined number that you decided on because of the books you write. Not the books I write. With no input from other genre's or way's of writing.

6. Dear Fantasy writers: I don't know why you are so set on the traditional publishing model of the 80s and 90s, one, I might add, that wasn't developed by writers or their marketing teams, but by accountants. Readers have clearly communicated to the market that they are totally fine with shorter books at lower prices and serialized stories/content - this is true across all genres. Of Tolkien's books, only Fellowship goes over the 750 Cap, and just barely at that, 40 pages or so, about 20 cents per read through. The other's are well below. And his publishers were right, LOTR is not a single novel, it really is a trilogy. The reality is that most of these super long books combine a number of shorter novels and side stories (novellas) into a single title. The Stand is another one that should have been a trilogy. It's one story, sure, but not one book. To an extent, these are packaging decisions, not literary choices.

Dear person who I've never met,

I'm not interested in the model of publishing. I'm interested in the books I'd like to write. I'm not writing for your audience but my own. I don't believe that I enjoy a person telling me to basically write shorter books, at a lower price, or to branch out. You keep bringing up Tolkien as a base line. Sorry, but I don't agree with your example. How about Wheel of Time? Game of Thrones? The last three Harry Potter books? Regardless, this argument comes down to you telling me to write it your way or get out of KU. I'm wondering if you'd appreciate that kind of sentiment being directed at you. Would you appreciate someone telling you to write different? That you are behind the times? Or that you need to write their way for you to care about them?

A 750 KENPC Cap is about 175k words, or somewhere between 500 and 700 actual print pages depending on formatting. I grew up reading series, they're a staple in SFF. I mean, ignoring my preference for tight narratives, I don't get the need or want for super long books from a business perspective, an artistic perspective or a work-flow perspective. I just don't get it. I'm pretty sure the digital world has moved on to a content-based literary model. But that's okay, I don't have get it. You do you.  :)

350 words per page is a trade paperback, divided by 350 = 500 pages. Appreciate the approval. I know this was intended to be an olive branch but after you just get done insulting the genre I write in, well, lets just say it didn't come off. I mean once you've told someone you don't get why they write, it's artistic merit, and that its old fashioned, what's not to be happy about.

As for super long TP books, they're not in KU; they have a completely different marketing strategy. Direct comparisons with TP books can only be made on the Store side of Zon. Which means Sanderson and Rowling are irrelevant to this conversation.

Yes, why should we compare to other titles of books that write to market, do well, and are published wide.


8. The lower Pay-Out Cap will reduce the revenue stream per shady-hat title by 75%.

9. To compensate, they'll have to publish four times as many books (won't that much duplication be noticeable?), which meas their AMS spend will increase by 400%. Is that sustainable?

10. A Pay-Out Cap is pretty much a single line of code. Let's face it, Zon isn't going to put much effort into implementing a workable solution. Any solution needs to be simple.


Frankly this is supposition. You don't know how much code goes into it. I'm a code monkey on the side, you simply haven't seen it so anything on that front is guess work. You can't predict the new model because it is a new model. All you can do is guess at what they'd do. Your benefits also don't touch anything that I care about and take away things I do. This is a deal that benefits you while cutting into what I love.

11. And for those on the fence, Romance writers, and a few other genres, have been dealing with this for the last year plus. How is that okay?

How is it right for you plan to not even once take into account the real concerns of other writers?

12. Let's also accept the fact that Zon is extremely unlikely to do anything we suggest, but it would be nice to see us get on the same page for once, thinking and planning for a better path for ALL of us. And while a lower Cap isn't a perfect solution, it provides the most benefit with the least harm. We even get to keep the All-Star bonuses (of which, I've never remotely qualified for).

I'll say this again. You don't ask for help while telling people you don't care what they think. The benefit is for things you care about while maiming the things I do.


I guess it comes down to whether or not cleaning up KU and leveling the AMS playing field is really all that important, if it's worth the sacrifice. I'd be happy to lose a buck or two, or whatever on my box sets if it meant my AMS spend could be competitive again, or if the pop lists were reflective of actual reader preferences again. I'll trade a few short-term pennies for long-term stability any day - we'll all make way more money that way. It's been proven in other industries - it's why the leaders of those industries created standards and certifications, so that manufacturing and services would remain professional and consistent with consumer expectations.

Oh, and it helps out our fellow writers, too. Win - Win.  ;)


My pop lists are indicative of what readers enjoy. It's good of you to give up some money, but then you get to keep writing the way you want, its other writers who will have to suffer for this. The writers that have said from the beginning that this wouldn't work for their books.

It's not a Win - Win for this author. In fact I'd lose, but then I'm writing in a way behind the times, with no artistic merit.

This will be my last time on this thread. I offered to help, wanted to compromise, was willing to work with you to actually get a change so that I could help out a genre I neither read nor write in. Since you force me into a binary of your way or their way. I'll say I'm their way.
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Actually, I think the payout per borrow in KU should be capped at the same price the ebook is for sale for. Might actually stop the 99cent books glutting the market and get authors paid a fair rate for good work.
Since the majority of scammers don't get purchases, all that will do is make them move their prices to $9.99.
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Horror has been doing well on TV as a series in recent years (American Horror Story for example among others, TWD, etc). As a horror fan and a series fan I gravitated to those shows right away. If there were more horror book series out there I'd definitely read them.
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